Finally given up on Quake.

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J.Bland

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with RCI.
Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a proper effort
to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him he has no sympathy
at all for this market (but then I can't really blame him).

He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would (or
have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point blank to let
anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're the distributors
for this product, how about a definitive statement as to just what the hell
is going on with Quake?

Shrike The Ripper.

--
John Bland
Zap 1.40. You bother me.

alan.calder

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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In article <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>,

To be fair to RCI they already have!
Those people who paid for Quake can have the choice of another of their
games and still have the PC Quake! (I think I've got this right!).

No godd blaming them. I wish Martin would get on with it. I'm still
hanging on to my as yet unopened box!

Cheers

Alan

--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.


R-Comp Interactive

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Jun 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/14/99
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In message <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>
J.Bland <J.B...@liv.ac.uk> wrote:

> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with RCI.
> Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a proper effort
> to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him he has no sympathy
> at all for this market (but then I can't really blame him).
>
> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would (or
> have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point blank to let
> anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're the distributors
> for this product, how about a definitive statement as to just what the hell
> is going on with Quake?

I'm sad to hear that that's the case. Martin's always been pretty positive
with me, but my patience has worn thin.

I have been talking to Peter T for a while now, and I might as well come
clean with my plans:

With RO 4 due July 1st, ArcQuake performance improves again

RISC OS Quake will hopefully ship with a souped up version of
ArcQuake, with support for Malice, a proper installer and
improved front end

Peter tells me that there is still a fair bit of room for
performance improvements, so I'll be putting a couple of
our arm coders onto that

The price will be dropped, and existing customers will be
taken care of (oh, so many jokes can be made from that line!)

Quite how all this will take place, and time scales is still up in
the air. Peter will do OK out of the deal too ;->

As for TBA Quake, well, we'd like to offer it as an upgrade at some
point, but after so many missed deadlines, I've got to try and
ship some product now. It's getting ridiculous.

Of course, if Martin delivers a working version to me in the next
few weeks, that's cool, but it would have to be 100% complete and
ready to roll.


Clearly this is not the solution I would have liked, but the RISCOS
executable will be enhanced over the current one, and the whole
thing should work well as a RISC OS Quake solution.


This is all subject to change, and as I say, no timescale promises.
But as you know, I'm as sick of this as anyone.

--
R-Comp Interactive
22 Robert Moffat, High Legh, Knutsford, Cheshire WA16 6PS
Tel: (+44) 01925 755043 Fax: (+44) 01925 757377
http://www.rcomp.co.uk/

Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:41:18 +0100, J.Bland <J.B...@liv.ac.uk> wrote:

>Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with RCI.
>Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a proper effort
>to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him he has no sympathy
>at all for this market (but then I can't really blame him).
>
>He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would (or
>have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point blank to let
>anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're the distributors
>for this product, how about a definitive statement as to just what the hell
>is going on with Quake?

As far as I can tell, Martin is just being a selfish egotist. It's
not as if his port of Quake is doing any good in its current state.
perhaps R-Comp could bribe him to release it to them and get someone
decent to work on it. After all, he did con them into trying to sell
his game. I don't know whether he's made any money out of it, but I
think RCI should consider legal action, given that he's been taking
them (and us) for a ride for the last year or so.

Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:39:31 +0100, alan.calder
<alan....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>,


> J.Bland <J.B...@liv.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with RCI.
>> Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a proper effort
>> to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him he has no sympathy
>> at all for this market (but then I can't really blame him).
>
>> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would (or
>> have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point blank to let
>> anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're the distributors
>> for this product, how about a definitive statement as to just what the hell
>> is going on with Quake?
>

>To be fair to RCI they already have!
>Those people who paid for Quake can have the choice of another of their
>games and still have the PC Quake! (I think I've got this right!).

Not that that will be much use to people who have already bought the
games they're were planning to get. Also, I haven't heard about this.
Was it in one of R-Comp's mysterious emails which I never seem to get?

>No godd blaming them. I wish Martin would get on with it. I'm still
>hanging on to my as yet unopened box!

Well, I've opened the box but I haven't sent off the registration
card.

David McEwen

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to
Hi...

> As far as I can tell, Martin is just being a selfish egotist. It's
> not as if his port of Quake is doing any good in its current state.
> perhaps R-Comp could bribe him to release it to them and get someone
> decent to work on it. After all, he did con them into trying to sell
> his game. I don't know whether he's made any money out of it, but I
> think RCI should consider legal action, given that he's been taking
> them (and us) for a ride for the last year or so.

I personally don't think it would be wise to take legal action, because
of the costs incurred would undoubtedly do more harm than good. Even if
they won they would be in a bad situation because legal fees a
notoriously steep -> I doubt sales of an Acorn version of Quake would
compensate. We don't want RCI wasting their money on lawyers when there
are alternatives available.

...David


---------------------------------------
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Jon

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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In article <37661004....@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,

Stephen J. Crocker <sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:


> Well, I've opened the box but I haven't sent off the registration
> card.

I installed my copy on my PC;)

Sorry to appear smug, but I did wait several months before doing so, and
still haven't with Malice and QZone.
Jon.

--
_________________________________
()____) )) http://www.acornarcade.com
| acorn_.._ _ _. _| _ | ICQ 21129860
| (_|| (_(_|(_|(/_ | Jon Hall (S/A Reviews)
| the acorn games paradise | The highly moral father
|__________________________| figure of the team


Gareth Moore

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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In message <7k5hdp$kt1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
David McEwen <dav...@argonaut.com> wrote:

> Hi...
>
> > As far as I can tell, Martin is just being a selfish egotist. It's
> > not as if his port of Quake is doing any good in its current state.
> > perhaps R-Comp could bribe him to release it to them and get someone
> > decent to work on it. After all, he did con them into trying to sell
> > his game. I don't know whether he's made any money out of it, but I
> > think RCI should consider legal action, given that he's been taking
> > them (and us) for a ride for the last year or so.
>
> I personally don't think it would be wise to take legal action, because
> of the costs incurred would undoubtedly do more harm than good. Even if
> they won they would be in a bad situation because legal fees a
> notoriously steep -> I doubt sales of an Acorn version of Quake would
> compensate. We don't want RCI wasting their money on lawyers when there
> are alternatives available.

And in any case they could only take legal action if they had a time-binding
contract with Martin - and whilst only RCI and Martin know if they do my
guess is that it's quite possible they don't.

I asked Andrew about Quake fairly recently, and he told me that they were
just about to go ahead with an alternative programmer when Martin said that
he would get it done in a week (this was, however, over a month ago).


Gareth

--
Gareth Moore Head of Productions, Cambridge University Radio
Downing College, CB2 1DQ edi...@acorn-gaming.org.uk gl...@cam.ac.uk
================ Acorn Gaming: www.acorn-gaming.org.uk ===============
====== The longest running regularly updated Acorn WWW magazine ======


STEPHEN CROCKER

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Gareth Moore wrote:

> I asked Andrew about Quake fairly recently, and he told me that they were
> just about to go ahead with an alternative programmer when Martin said that
> he would get it done in a week (this was, however, over a month ago).

Over two months ago, actually! I interrogated Martin about such matters
on IRC and that was just before I came up (ie. just over 8 weeks ago).


STEPHEN CROCKER

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, David McEwen wrote:

> Hi...
>
> > As far as I can tell, Martin is just being a selfish egotist. It's
> > not as if his port of Quake is doing any good in its current state.
> > perhaps R-Comp could bribe him to release it to them and get someone
> > decent to work on it. After all, he did con them into trying to sell
> > his game. I don't know whether he's made any money out of it, but I
> > think RCI should consider legal action, given that he's been taking
> > them (and us) for a ride for the last year or so.
>
> I personally don't think it would be wise to take legal action, because
> of the costs incurred would undoubtedly do more harm than good. Even if
> they won they would be in a bad situation because legal fees a
> notoriously steep -> I doubt sales of an Acorn version of Quake would
> compensate. We don't want RCI wasting their money on lawyers when there
> are alternatives available.

Unless they managed to get enough money out of Martin... ;-)

I think R-Comp should employ a hit-man, having persuaded Martin to leave
the Quake source to them in his will...


STEPHEN CROCKER

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
to

On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Jon wrote:

> In article <37661004....@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,
> Stephen J. Crocker <sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > Well, I've opened the box but I haven't sent off the registration
> > card.
>
> I installed my copy on my PC;)

Ditto.



> Sorry to appear smug, but I did wait several months before doing so, and
> still haven't with Malice and QZone.

Again, ditto.


Graham Crockford

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Jun 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/15/99
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In message <c1c9a012...@glm20.cam.ac.uk>
Gareth Moore <gl...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

> I asked Andrew about Quake fairly recently, and he told me that they were
> just about to go ahead with an alternative programmer when Martin said that
> he would get it done in a week (this was, however, over a month ago).

Mmm. Handing it over to someone else would mean showing everyone precisely
how far he's got.

G

--
Graham Crockford - PGP key available
ICQ #19605512


Martin Kaletsch

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
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In message <Pine.PCW.3.95.990615...@x-ray.kings.cam.ac.uk>
STEPHEN CROCKER <SJ...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:


> I think R-Comp should employ a hit-man, having persuaded Martin to leave
> the Quake source to them in his will...

Did you spend to much time playing the game in question?

--

*****************************************************************************
* Martin Kaletsch * This mail was written on an *
*************************************** Acorn RiscPC *
* kale...@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de ***************************************
* Kale...@mathematik.uni-marburg.de * pgp-key available *
*****************************************************************************
I'm not ready to die. Not today. Not yet. Maybe not ever...

Keith Mckillop

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Jun 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/16/99
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In message <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>, J.Bland wrote:

> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with
> RCI. Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a
> proper effort to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him
> he has no sympathy at all for this market (but then I can't really blame
> him).

> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would
> (or have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point
> blank to let anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're
> the distributors for this product, how about a definitive statement as to
> just what the hell is going on with Quake?

> Shrike The Ripper.

Oh, I remember that. He came on irc, didn't he?

So much for being optimistic. Humpf. I don't think that we're ever going to
get Quake this side of Xmas. Xmas 2000 is a remote possibilty. Hell, you're
right, we ain't gonna see it at all, are we, after what he said.

He would trust Gerph/rjw (aka. Justin Fletcher/Richard Willson for you
non-irclings ;) to finish it off, but he says that they're too busy. Well,
we're up diarrhoea drive without a saddle now, aren't we?



Keith

--
* Wot? Not even... Wensleydale?
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Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/17/99
to
On 16 Jun 1999 20:29:23 GMT, Martin Kaletsch
<kale...@mathematik.uni-marburg.de> wrote:

>In message <Pine.PCW.3.95.990615...@x-ray.kings.cam.ac.uk>
> STEPHEN CROCKER <SJ...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> I think R-Comp should employ a hit-man, having persuaded Martin to leave
>> the Quake source to them in his will...
>
>Did you spend to much time playing the game in question?

On my Acorn at a very low framerate, on my PC at a decent
resolution/framerate (over the Internet as well!) and in the King's
College computer room against various natural scientists.

Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/17/99
to
On 16 Jun 1999 19:10:24 +0100, k...@arcade.demon.co.uk (Keith Mckillop)
wrote:

>In message <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>, J.Bland wrote:
>
>> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with
>> RCI. Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a
>> proper effort to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him
>> he has no sympathy at all for this market (but then I can't really blame
>> him).
>
>> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would
>> (or have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point
>> blank to let anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're
>> the distributors for this product, how about a definitive statement as to
>> just what the hell is going on with Quake?
>
>> Shrike The Ripper.
>
>Oh, I remember that. He came on irc, didn't he?
>
>So much for being optimistic. Humpf. I don't think that we're ever going to
>get Quake this side of Xmas. Xmas 2000 is a remote possibilty. Hell, you're
>right, we ain't gonna see it at all, are we, after what he said.

Unless someone visits him with a large, spiky pineapple! >:-)

>He would trust Gerph/rjw (aka. Justin Fletcher/Richard Willson for you
>non-irclings ;) to finish it off, but he says that they're too busy. Well,
>we're up diarrhoea drive without a saddle now, aren't we?

It would be much more messy with a saddle... ;-)

On a more serious note, I can understand Gerph's reasons. After all,
he's working on RO4 and doing Doom+ etc. in his spare time. Is
Richard Wilson is a similar position? IIRC, he's been a bit busy on
Botkiller 2 and he's been writing a lot of freeware stuff. Anyone
else? Eddie Edwards, perhaps? Having been behind Wolf3D and the
original Doom, it would seem a fitting thing to do, assuming he's
still with the platform.

RIchard Wilson

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Jun 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/18/99
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Stephen J. Crocker <sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3768b882....@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk...

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't afford to develop it, even if I
had the time - large RISC OS projects just aren't viable any more (look at
how many games have been /developed/ for it recently). I truly love the
platform (Zap/ARM code is a dream to work with) and I enjoy coding RISC OS
apps (a new version of !NoDisc is out soon BTW), but unless some of the new
hardware is powerful enough (ie PCI accelerator cards, mutli SA / FP / ARM10
/ decent bus speeds) then I can't see any RISC OS machine ever having new
software developed for it as a non-charitable industry.


Richard (personally).


Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/18/99
to
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:41:34 +0100, R-Comp Interactive (RCI)
<r...@rcomp.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>


> J.Bland <J.B...@liv.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with RCI.
>> Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a proper effort
>> to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him he has no sympathy
>> at all for this market (but then I can't really blame him).
>>
>> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would (or
>> have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point blank to let
>> anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're the distributors
>> for this product, how about a definitive statement as to just what the hell
>> is going on with Quake?
>

>I'm sad to hear that that's the case. Martin's always been pretty positive
>with me, but my patience has worn thin.

If it's taken you that long, you can't have _that_ short a temper! ;-)

>I have been talking to Peter T for a while now, and I might as well come
>clean with my plans:
>
> With RO 4 due July 1st, ArcQuake performance improves again

Ah, brilliant marketing strategy for RO4! ;-)

> RISC OS Quake will hopefully ship with a souped up version of
> ArcQuake, with support for Malice, a proper installer and
> improved front end

Ah, that sounds good! One point I should make is that ArcQuake still
has slight Internet problems- I just cannot connect to any servers. I
use Internet 5 and SLIPDial, if that's any help.



> Peter tells me that there is still a fair bit of room for
> performance improvements, so I'll be putting a couple of
> our arm coders onto that

GREAT!



> The price will be dropped, and existing customers will be
> taken care of (oh, so many jokes can be made from that line!)

Right, I filled in the clipboard so I should get it...



>Quite how all this will take place, and time scales is still up in
>the air.

Well, that's better than Martin's empty promises...

>Peter will do OK out of the deal too ;->

Good for him!

>As for TBA Quake, well, we'd like to offer it as an upgrade at some
>point, but after so many missed deadlines, I've got to try and
>ship some product now. It's getting ridiculous.

If you can get ArcQuake so it's better than TBAQuake, who cares?

>Of course, if Martin delivers a working version to me in the next
>few weeks, that's cool, but it would have to be 100% complete and
>ready to roll.

It would also be a miracle!

>Clearly this is not the solution I would have liked, but the RISCOS
>executable will be enhanced over the current one, and the whole
>thing should work well as a RISC OS Quake solution.

If you can keep developing ArcQuake, it might be a better solution. I
see no reason why it can't ever stand up to TBAQuake.

>This is all subject to change, and as I say, no timescale promises.
>But as you know, I'm as sick of this as anyone.

Just as long as something's happening...

Stephen J. Crocker

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Jun 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/18/99
to
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:47:49 +0000, Graham Crockford
<gra...@spisolation.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <c1c9a012...@glm20.cam.ac.uk>
> Gareth Moore <gl...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I asked Andrew about Quake fairly recently, and he told me that they were
>> just about to go ahead with an alternative programmer when Martin said that
>> he would get it done in a week (this was, however, over a month ago).
>
>Mmm. Handing it over to someone else would mean showing everyone precisely
>how far he's got.

Well, I heard that last summer at the SE show, he was giving a demo of
it and it crashed with a divide by zero error! You can't get much
more embarrassing than that! Unless your stand at Wakefield features
an upturned table and a bin bag... ;-)

Sendu Bala

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Jun 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/18/99
to
In article <3769fe29...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>, Stephen J. Crocker

<URL:mailto:sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ah, that sounds good! One point I should make is that ArcQuake still
> has slight Internet problems- I just cannot connect to any servers. I
> use Internet 5 and SLIPDial, if that's any help.

I used to be able to connect with older versions, but I can't anymore.
For some reason I need to use !QServer now. Maybe I'm just doing
something wrong. Still, using QServer is no hassle, so it's not a
problem.


--
Sendu Bala se...@sbs-net.demon.co.uk | http://www.sbs-net.demon.co.uk/

Tori Amos, Babylon5, DNA and my SA RPC
"If life gets any better than this, I'll be genuinely surprised"


Matt Claydon

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Jun 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/18/99
to
In article <ant18092...@sbs-net.demon.co.uk>,
Sendu Bala <se...@sbs-net.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <3769fe29...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>, Stephen J. Crocker
> <URL:mailto:sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > Ah, that sounds good! One point I should make is that ArcQuake still
> > has slight Internet problems- I just cannot connect to any servers. I
> > use Internet 5 and SLIPDial, if that's any help.
>
> I used to be able to connect with older versions, but I can't anymore.
> For some reason I need to use !QServer now. Maybe I'm just doing
> something wrong. Still, using QServer is no hassle, so it's not a
> problem.
>
>

I'm using the lastst version (with the full registered pak files) and have
never had problems connecting to any server. I use !AcornetF if it makes any
difference. Maybe it won't connect if they're playing on a level you haven't
got??

On a similar note, what is the best ping anyone's managed to get with
!ArcQuake ? I tend to get between 350 and 400 which makes the game almost
unplayable. Is there something wrong with my connection or is it just a
limitation of AQ? I'm with Demon using a 56k modem and I've tried connecting
to many different servers (including Demon and Dircon).

Cheers,
Matt.


--
_ _ __ || Hampshire, England, UK ||
| | | / || e-mail : ma...@claydons.demon.co.uk ||
| | |ATT \__LAYDON || web-site : www.claydons.demon.co.uk ||

Keith Mckillop

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Jun 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/19/99
to
In message <19990618....@claydons.demon.co.uk>, Matt Claydon wrote:

> In article <ant18092...@sbs-net.demon.co.uk>,
> Sendu Bala <se...@sbs-net.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> In article <3769fe29...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>, Stephen J. Crocker
>> <URL:mailto:sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> Ah, that sounds good! One point I should make is that ArcQuake still
>>> has slight Internet problems- I just cannot connect to any servers. I
>>> use Internet 5 and SLIPDial, if that's any help.
>>>
>> I used to be able to connect with older versions, but I can't anymore.
>> For some reason I need to use !QServer now. Maybe I'm just doing
>> something wrong. Still, using QServer is no hassle, so it's not a
>> problem.

> I'm using the lastst version (with the full registered pak files) and
> have never had problems connecting to any server. I use !AcornetF if it
> makes any difference. Maybe it won't connect if they're playing on a
> level you haven't got??

> On a similar note, what is the best ping anyone's managed to get with
> !ArcQuake ? I tend to get between 350 and 400 which makes the game almost
> unplayable. Is there something wrong with my connection or is it just a
> limitation of AQ? I'm with Demon using a 56k modem and I've tried
> connecting to many different servers (including Demon and Dircon).

You could try altering Sys_ticrate at the console. It helps on the peecee
version, so it should help here (unless it hasn't been implemented). The
default value is 0.05, although I found that 0.02 gives better performance.
Basically, updates per second = 1/sys_ticrate

Keith Mckillop

unread,
Jun 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/19/99
to
In message <22fd041...@rcomp.demon.co.uk>, RCI wrote:

> In message <1b8ac81149%J.B...@pc084085.melgrove.liv.ac.uk>
> J.Bland <J.B...@liv.ac.uk> wrote:

>> Well, after a year of waiting I've given up. I've canceled my order with
>> RCI. Martin Piper doesn't have the time and/or inclination to make a
>> proper effort to finish this project off. From my 'discussions' with him
>> he has no sympathy at all for this market (but then I can't really blame
>> him).
>> He obviously sees this as his own pet project. The customers who would
>> (or have!) buy this are a very low second priority. He refuses point
>> blank to let anyone else finish it off for him. So, RCI, seeing as you're
>> the distributors for this product, how about a definitive statement as to
>> just what the hell is going on with Quake?

> I'm sad to hear that that's the case. Martin's always been pretty
> positive with me, but my patience has worn thin.

> I have been talking to Peter T for a while now, and I might as well come
> clean with my plans:

[snip - good news, IMO!]


> Clearly this is not the solution I would have liked, but the RISCOS
> executable will be enhanced over the current one, and the whole
> thing should work well as a RISC OS Quake solution.


> This is all subject to change, and as I say, no timescale promises.
> But as you know, I'm as sick of this as anyone.

Well done! At least someone's decided to get up and do something about it!
Hoo-rah!

:)

Keith Mckillop

unread,
Jun 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/19/99
to
In message <929663749.4141.0...@news.demon.co.uk>, "RIchard
Wilson" wrote:

> Stephen J. Crocker <sj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:3768b882....@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk...
>> On 16 Jun 1999 19:10:24 +0100, k...@arcade.demon.co.uk (Keith Mckillop)
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> He would trust Gerph/rjw (aka. Justin Fletcher/Richard Willson for you
>>> non-irclings ;) to finish it off, but he says that they're too busy.
>>> Well,
>>> we're up diarrhoea drive without a saddle now, aren't we?
>>
>> It would be much more messy with a saddle... ;-)
>>
>> On a more serious note, I can understand Gerph's reasons. After all,
>> he's working on RO4 and doing Doom+ etc. in his spare time. Is

Yeah, Gerph is *very* busy, and his time is well spent developing ROS.


>> Richard Wilson is a similar position? IIRC, he's been a bit busy on
>> Botkiller 2 and he's been writing a lot of freeware stuff. Anyone
>> else? Eddie Edwards, perhaps? Having been behind Wolf3D and the
>> original Doom, it would seem a fitting thing to do, assuming he's
>> still with the platform.

> Well, as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't afford to develop it, even if I
> had the time - large RISC OS projects just aren't viable any more (look
> at how many games have been /developed/ for it recently). I truly love
> the platform (Zap/ARM code is a dream to work with) and I enjoy coding
> RISC OS apps (a new version of !NoDisc is out soon BTW), but unless some
> of the new hardware is powerful enough (ie PCI accelerator cards, mutli
> SA / FP / ARM10 / decent bus speeds) then I can't see any RISC OS machine
> ever having new software developed for it as a non-charitable industry.

So we have this loop where people won't code until the hardware's there, and
the hardware won't be there unless we support it by coding. See the problem? I
guess it's up to us students again...

R-Comp Interactive

unread,
Jun 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/20/99
to

>
> Well, I heard that last summer at the SE show, he was giving a demo of
> it and it crashed with a divide by zero error! You can't get much
> more embarrassing than that!


I would suggest that a trivial fault like this is an awful lot better than
texture faults, abort on data transfers and other problems. The point of
that demo was to show the frame rates that were coming out when it was
running.

Andrew

Peter Teichmann

unread,
Jun 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/20/99
to
In message <19990618....@claydons.demon.co.uk>
ma...@claydons.demon.co.uk (Matt Claydon) wrote:

> On a similar note, what is the best ping anyone's managed to get with
> !ArcQuake ? I tend to get between 350 and 400 which makes the game almost
> unplayable. Is there something wrong with my connection or is it just a
> limitation of AQ? I'm with Demon using a 56k modem and I've tried connecting
> to many different servers (including Demon and Dircon).

This is not because of QrcQuake, but because of the latency of your
internet connection. Most providers consider bandwidth to be more important
than latency, and for surfing this is right, but not for realtime network
games.

Playing on a local ethernet or in the german research network is just fun!

--
Peter Teichmann

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email: tei...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de WWW: rcswww.urz.tu-dresden.de/~teich-p

Matt Claydon

unread,
Jun 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/21/99
to
In article <4915578E1C%tei...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de>,
Peter Teichmann <tei...@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de> wrote:

> In message <19990618....@claydons.demon.co.uk>
> ma...@claydons.demon.co.uk (Matt Claydon) wrote:
>
> > On a similar note, what is the best ping anyone's managed to get with
> > !ArcQuake ? I tend to get between 350 and 400 which makes the game almost
> > unplayable. Is there something wrong with my connection or is it just a
> > limitation of AQ? I'm with Demon using a 56k modem and I've tried connecting
> > to many different servers (including Demon and Dircon).
>
> This is not because of QrcQuake, but because of the latency of your
> internet connection. Most providers consider bandwidth to be more important
> than latency, and for surfing this is right, but not for realtime network
> games.


I realise that now, as when I ping the servers from the desktop using
!Freeping I get similarly slow times. However if I use the Acorn stack
version of Acornet i get _much_ lower pings in the desktop, but Quake doesn't
sem to want to connect properly (It gets as far as "Conection Accepted" but
then just keeps printing "server to client keepalive" at the console every
couple of seconds and does nothing else).

Any Ideas??

Many thanks,

Seldon Diaz

unread,
Jun 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/25/99
to

>> but unless some
>> of the new hardware is powerful enough (ie PCI accelerator cards, mutli
>> SA / FP / ARM10 / decent bus speeds) then I can't see any RISC OS machine
>> ever having new software developed for it as a non-charitable industry.
>
>So we have this loop where people won't code until the hardware's there,
and
>the hardware won't be there unless we support it by coding. See the
problem? I
>guess it's up to us students again...
>
>


The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
surely? RISC OS
users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators, which more than makes
up for the slower
processors... I know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC
processor, and 3D acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with
VooDoo2 should be a
formidable combination...

Charlie Baylis

unread,
Jun 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/25/99
to
In article <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,

Seldon Diaz <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
> surely? RISC OS users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators,
> which more than makes up for the slower processors... I know that the
> Playstation has a 33MHz RISC processor, and 3D acceleration, so a
> well-programmed Riscstation with VooDoo2 should be a formidable
> combination...

Not compared to a Pentium II/III PC with a Voodoo2 (or better card). Despite
what Paul Vigay says about his PC being out of date it would still outperform
a Riscstation with Voodoo 2 for playing Halflife.

Charlie

--
New RISC OS mp3 player: http://www.fish.zetnet.co.uk/

Tony Houghton

unread,
Jun 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/25/99
to
In <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Seldon Diaz <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
> surely? RISC OS
> users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators, which more than makes
> up for the slower
> processors... I know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC
> processor, and 3D acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with
> VooDoo2 should be a
> formidable combination...

Unfortunately PC accelerators are designed to be used with reasonably
powerful Pentiums with faster buses than the ARM7500FE's. Even the
Voodoo 1 recommends a P133 minimum IIRC, Voodoo 2's are designed for
PII level performance. An ARM7500FE won't be able to feed these things
data fast enough to make them a significantly better combination than
a StrongARM Risc PC, although it may make the games much easier to
write, because they'll be relying on hardware instead of optimisation.

--
TH * http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~tonyh/
Supporting CUT: http://www.unmetered.org.uk/

dgs

unread,
Jun 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/25/99
to
In article <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Seldon Diaz <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
> surely? RISC OS users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators,
> which more than makes up for the slower processors...

Well...

(1) Are you sure the Mico is going to use PCI? (We know the
RiscStation is).

(2) For games to make use of PCI 3D accelerators, first of all you
have to write a driver for the card, then you have to write games
software that will use it.

> I know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC processor, and 3D
> acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with VooDoo2 should be
> a formidable combination...

Admittedly, you can get an awful lot to run at a reasonable speed
on an ARM chip if you put the work in, but remember that a Playstation
is *not* just a CPU plus a 3D card.

--
d...@argonet.co.uk

Manchester Acorn User Group - http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk/

RPC x86 Card Info Pages - http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/pccard/


John Cartmell

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to
In article <4917ee...@argonet.co.uk>,

dgs <d...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Seldon Diaz <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> > The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware
> > problems, surely? RISC OS users will finally be able to use PCI 3d
> > accelerators, which more than makes up for the slower processors...

> Well...

> (1) Are you sure the Mico is going to use PCI? (We know the
> RiscStation is).

Not sure about the Mico

> (2) For games to make use of PCI 3D accelerators, first of all you
> have to write a driver for the card, then you have to write games
> software that will use it.

drivers and software may be closer than you think... :-)

(in general - I'm not talking specifics here)

--
John Cartmell - Manchester, UK
MAUG - RiscStation preview was 25th June
more details of the latest RISC OS computer at the 3 July Show
http://www.cartmell.demon.co.uk to be updated soon

John Cartmell

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to
In article <slrn7n83c5...@tonyh.tcp.co.uk>, Tony Houghton
<to...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> In <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Seldon Diaz
> <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> > The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware
> > problems, surely? RISC OS users will finally be able to use PCI 3d

> > accelerators, which more than makes up for the slower processors... I


> > know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC processor, and 3D
> > acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with VooDoo2 should be
> > a formidable combination...

> Unfortunately PC accelerators are designed to be used with reasonably


> powerful Pentiums with faster buses than the ARM7500FE's. Even the
> Voodoo 1 recommends a P133 minimum IIRC, Voodoo 2's are designed for PII
> level performance. An ARM7500FE won't be able to feed these things data
> fast enough to make them a significantly better combination than a
> StrongARM Risc PC, although it may make the games much easier to write,
> because they'll be relying on hardware instead of optimisation.

A concensus (between those who *do* know) last night was that the
improvement would be considerable.

John Cartmell

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to
In article <4917e94f...@fish.zetnet.co.uk>, Charlie Baylis
<cb-...@fish.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <7l0uas$2un$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, Seldon Diaz

> <Flat...@stefane.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware
> > problems, surely? RISC OS users will finally be able to use PCI 3d
> > accelerators, which more than makes up for the slower processors... I
> > know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC processor, and 3D
> > acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with VooDoo2 should be
> > a formidable combination...

> Not compared to a Pentium II/III PC with a Voodoo2 (or better card).


> Despite what Paul Vigay says about his PC being out of date it would
> still outperform a Riscstation with Voodoo 2 for playing Halflife.

I don't know - but what assumptions are you making?

Tony Houghton

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to

> In article <slrn7n83c5...@tonyh.tcp.co.uk>, Tony Houghton
> <to...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> > Unfortunately PC accelerators are designed to be used with reasonably
> > powerful Pentiums with faster buses than the ARM7500FE's. Even the
> > Voodoo 1 recommends a P133 minimum IIRC, Voodoo 2's are designed for PII
> > level performance. An ARM7500FE won't be able to feed these things data
> > fast enough to make them a significantly better combination than a
> > StrongARM Risc PC, although it may make the games much easier to write,
> > because they'll be relying on hardware instead of optimisation.
> A concensus (between those who *do* know) last night was that the
> improvement would be considerable.

Well, one of us seems to have been misled into how much our friends
"know" about this, but I'm not the one questioning a PII-400's ability
to outperform a Riscstation in the next message.

N.A.Atkinson

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to
Seldon Diaz wrote:
>
> The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
> surely? RISC OS
> users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators, which more than makes
> up for the slower
> processors... I know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC
> processor, and 3D acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with
> VooDoo2 should be a
> formidable combination...

But aren't the PCI slots working at a slow speed hence will not be able
to use the full potential of the cards anyway?

--

Hmmmm Beefy,
Nathan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PR Agent/Webmaster/Team hub of Visions Of The Impossible:
http://www.stormloader.com/wrath/
Founder of the "Coding Vault":
http://www.acornarcade.com/features/codevault/

Andy McMullon

unread,
Jun 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/26/99
to
In article <3774E100...@durham.ac.uk>, N.A.Atkinson

<URL:mailto:N.A.At...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> Seldon Diaz wrote:
> >
> > The new RiscStation/Mico computers should sort out the hardware problems,
> > surely? RISC OS
> > users will finally be able to use PCI 3d accelerators, which more than makes
> > up for the slower
> > processors... I know that the Playstation has a 33MHz RISC
> > processor, and 3D acceleration, so a well-programmed Riscstation with
> > VooDoo2 should be a
> > formidable combination...
>
> But aren't the PCI slots working at a slow speed hence will not be able
> to use the full potential of the cards anyway?

This is my big question to those suggesting that Riscstation is going to
be a big breakthrough in speed and performance. The host processor
still only works at 56 Mhz, and no matter how many 233 Mhz (or higher)
SAs you put on PCI cards, or how amazing the graphics card, they all
have to shunt data through what is still a relatively slow bus.

Could someone who knows more about this explain if this can be done
efficiently?

Anyway what is the bus speed on the new kit?

--
Andy: skyp...@bigfoot.com / http://www.mcfamily.demon.co.uk

Thomas Boroske

unread,
Jun 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM6/28/99
to
Andy McMullon <skyp...@bigfoot.com> writes:

> In article <3774E100...@durham.ac.uk>, N.A.Atkinson

> > But aren't the PCI slots working at a slow speed hence will not be able
> > to use the full potential of the cards anyway?
>
> This is my big question to those suggesting that Riscstation is going to
> be a big breakthrough in speed and performance. The host processor
> still only works at 56 Mhz, and no matter how many 233 Mhz (or higher)
> SAs you put on PCI cards, or how amazing the graphics card, they all
> have to shunt data through what is still a relatively slow bus.

No, not really. The SA card suggested for the RiscStation (the SA-DIMM
by Chaltech, I think) contains it´s own local SDRAM memory. Data
transfer between two PCI cards (ie SA-Dimm and 3D card) could run at
full speed too.

That aside, it would be interesiting to know how the guys at
RiscStation managed to integrate the PCI bus with the
ARM7500FE. Epecially whether it is a full implementation (including
DMA) and if it runs at full speed from the host processor´s
viewpoint.

> Could someone who knows more about this explain if this can be done
> efficiently?
>
> Anyway what is the bus speed on the new kit?

Should be 33 MHz for bursts effectively (EDO).

Kind regards,

--
Thomas Boroske

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