Strange behavior of !Pluto with attachments and GnuPG signs

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

I attach here a file to an email and sign it with !GnuPG. This results to

- --5a3023af991+6Mz3mZvlfgOQsDlcqfok
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

instead of

--5a3023af991+6Mz3mZvlfgOQsDlcqfok
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

why Unix users on other systems (FreeBSD, Linux) couldn't read the email.
I advised them to remove the first - in front of the line; then it worked
on their system.

With !MessengerPro there is no problem signing emails using !GnuPG but it
cannot read the with !Pluto's created and signed emails as well.

!Pluto 3.18 (24-Oct-20)
GnuPG 1.4.15
RISC OS 5.24
Elesars Titanium

Does anybody here know or remember a progamm called !Attacher with what
you can convert binary files to BASE64 and back? I think there was
something like that for RISC OS but I cannot find it.

The link

https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/pluto/pluto318.zip/download

seems to not work here with !NetSurf 3.10. Also I cannot download the
source code

https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download

here.

Thanks for any help!

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <5a343872f8b...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> The link

> https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/pluto/pluto318.zip/download

> seems to not work here with !NetSurf 3.10. Also I cannot download the
> source code

> https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download

> here.

I downloaded the file

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-16/pluto318.zip
(737 kB)

from

https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download

but cannot find a source code in the archive. Is the above the right
link?

!Pluto contains a file called !RunImage. I can open it with !StrongEd
and switch to ASM. Is this the code? Where is the point of begin?

Thanks in advance

Alex

P. S. It is a shame that the website sourceforge doesn't work here with
NetSurf whereas the link from my own hoster just works fine. It is
something I don't understand.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Martin]

Sorry Alex, I missed your first post.

In article <5a383302beb...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> In article <5a343872f8b...@chiemgau-net.de>,
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> > The link
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/pluto/pluto318.zip/download
> > seems to not work here with !NetSurf 3.10.

Strange - thet has just worked here for me, using Netsurf v3.10.
Did you see the information on the Pluto Web Site on
http://www.avisoft.f9.co.uk/Pluto ? That clarifies how to deal with
the oddities of SorceForge with Netsurf.

> > Also I cannot download the source code
> > https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download
> > here.

> I downloaded the file http://home.chiemgau-net.de/.../pluto318.zip

> (737 kB) from
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download
> but cannot find a source code in the archive. Is the above the right
> link?

No, that gives the latest *release* just like the first link.

I cannot seem to get to the source using Netsurf any more ... it seems
to have changed since I last used it. I will investigate that. But the
source is held in a CVS repository.

> !Pluto contains a file called !RunImage. I can open it with
> !StrongEd and switch to ASM. Is this the code? Where is the point
> of begin?

As for most RISC OS applications, the !RunImage is the main program
code which is loaded from the !Run file by a Run command. As it is
compiled C, StrongEd will show the compiled code ... which is
compressed.

> P. S. It is a shame that the website sourceforge doesn't work here
> with NetSurf whereas the link from my own hoster just works fine.
> It is something I don't understand.

That is a question for SourceForge. I did point out some time ago to
SourceForge their bug which causes the zip files to be downloaded as
Data, but never had any response.

Martin

--
Martin Avison
Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
without notice if (when) any spam is received.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 16 Oct, Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote in message
<5a383302beb...@chiemgau-net.de>:

> I downloaded the file
>
> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-16/pluto318.zip
> (737 kB)
>
> from
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download
>
> but cannot find a source code in the archive. Is the above the right link?

Yes, it's the correct link for the end-user application.

You probably don't want to be publicly hosting a copy of the archive,
though. It's just going to confuse people going forward.

> !Pluto contains a file called !RunImage. I can open it with !StrongEd and
> switch to ASM. Is this the code? Where is the point of begin?

It's compiled C. You need to download the source code from SourceForge.

Start at https://sourceforge.net/p/plutoemail/code/HEAD/tree/ and navigate
from there. To just grab a snapshot of the code, you can click on "Download
Snapshot" to get a Zip file of the current head of the trunk.

The code is managed by Subversion, and you can navigate around that using
the SourceForge interface to see different revisions, branches and so on.

For both of these, you may require a different browser to NetSurf, however.

> P. S. It is a shame that the website sourceforge doesn't work here with
> NetSurf whereas the link from my own hoster just works fine. It is
> something I don't understand.

SourceForge, like most online web interfaces to source control, almost
certainly requires functional Javascript to be usable. It works fine for me
in Firefox, for example.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

[Martin]

In article <5a38358a...@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,

Martin <New...@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> But the source is held in a CVS repository.

Ooops - I meant SVN (Subversion) not CVS.

[Harriet Bazley]

On 16 Oct 2022 as I do recall,
Steve Fryatt wrote:


[snip]

> Start at https://sourceforge.net/p/plutoemail/code/HEAD/tree/ and navigate
> from there. To just grab a snapshot of the code, you can click on "Download
> Snapshot" to get a Zip file of the current head of the trunk.
>
> The code is managed by Subversion, and you can navigate around that using
> the SourceForge interface to see different revisions, branches and so on.
>
> For both of these, you may require a different browser to NetSurf, however.
>

That link not only doesn't work on Netsurf, it appears to actively crash
the browser:


"content/handlers/html/box_construct.c", line 1067: box_construct_text: Assertion failed: white_space == CSS_WHITE_SPACE_PRE || white_space == CSS_WHITE_SPACE_PRE_LINE || white_space == CSS_WHITE_SPACE_PRE_WRAP


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

It is better to have loved and lost than just to have lost.

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <mpro.rjuatn00...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 16 Oct, Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote in message
> <5a383302beb...@chiemgau-net.de>:

>> I downloaded the file
>>
>> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-16/pluto318.zip
>> (737 kB)
>>
>> from
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/plutoemail/files/latest/download
>>
>> but cannot find a source code in the archive. Is the above the right link?

> Yes, it's the correct link for the end-user application.

> You probably don't want to be publicly hosting a copy of the archive,
> though. It's just going to confuse people going forward.

I did it for verification and because I wasn't able to download it from
sourceforge by my own machine at home. It may be there are other people
who aren't able to download it? On the other hand, I have seen that
!Pluto is listed in !Store. !Store is something what works here. Gott
sei Dank.

>> !Pluto contains a file called !RunImage. I can open it with !StrongEd and
>> switch to ASM. Is this the code? Where is the point of begin?

> It's compiled C. You need to download the source code from SourceForge.

> Start at https://sourceforge.net/p/plutoemail/code/HEAD/tree/ and navigate
> from there. To just grab a snapshot of the code, you can click on "Download
> Snapshot" to get a Zip file of the current head of the trunk.

Thanks for the link. Fortunately, it doesn't work on my Titanium here,
too. All I get is the window

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-16/Plutoemailcode
(64 kB)

> The code is managed by Subversion, and you can navigate around that using
> the SourceForge interface to see different revisions, branches and so on.

> For both of these, you may require a different browser to NetSurf, however.

I tried !Otter for a while but it had a terrible graphics user
interface like the port of Firefox before. And it was very slow. Now I
see OBrowser / Iris Beta listed in !Store. At the end of the window it
says:

"The download on !Store is very small, because you will simply be given
the access details to download your software on RISC OS Development's
private server. This is where the browsers and future updates will
appear."

It is a shame that they claim 49.99 Pounds for it whereas most
webbrowsers for other systems are for free. OK, it may be a lot of work.
The only question for me is how long it will work like it was with most
webbrowsers on RISC OS in the past.

Can I download it from the RISC OS Development's private server by
!NetSurf? How big is the file? Because I have a limit of 200 MB per
month here and the connection isn't fast. Can I download the source code
of !Pluto with it?

By the way: I don't find it listed at

https://www.riscosdev.com/projects/

I remember other webbrowsers for RISC OS like !ArcWeb or !Oregano but
cannot find them anymore anywhere.

>> P. S. It is a shame that the website sourceforge doesn't work here with
>> NetSurf whereas the link from my own hoster just works fine. It is
>> something I don't understand.

> SourceForge, like most online web interfaces to source control, almost
> certainly requires functional Javascript to be usable.

I don't understand this point. The link from my host I gave you above
also works without Javascript. It is just a link. Why everything is so
complicate today?

It may be that an own system for RISC OS with an own application and
without the need of a web browser would be much better for these
things (like !Pling).

> It works fine for me in Firefox, for example.

I found something here:

http://www.riscos.info/downloads/wip/firefox/

Which file should I take?

Many thanks in advance,

Alex'

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Martin]

In article <5a3845d5bab...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> > It's compiled C. You need to download the source code from
> > SourceForge.

> > Start at https://sourceforge.net/p/plutoemail/code/HEAD/tree/ and
> > navigate from there. To just grab a snapshot of the code, you can
> > click on "Download Snapshot" to get a Zip file of the current
> > head of the trunk.

> Thanks for the link. Fortunately, it doesn't work on my Titanium
> here, too.

Strange. I just clicked on the above link on my Titanium with Netsurf
3.10, then clicked on Download Snapshot and I received a 963KB zip
file which opened and was filetyped Zip after dragging it to SparkFS.

If you email me (Pluto@...) I can send you a copy.

Martin

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <5a3846fa...@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,

Martin <New...@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5a3845d5bab...@chiemgau-net.de>,
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>>> It's compiled C. You need to download the source code from
>>> SourceForge.

>>> Start at https://sourceforge.net/p/plutoemail/code/HEAD/tree/ and
>>> navigate from there. To just grab a snapshot of the code, you can
>>> click on "Download Snapshot" to get a Zip file of the current
>>> head of the trunk.

>> Thanks for the link. Fortunately, it doesn't work on my Titanium
>> here, too.

> Strange. I just clicked on the above link on my Titanium with Netsurf
> 3.10, then clicked on Download Snapshot and I received a 963KB zip
> file which opened and was filetyped Zip after dragging it to SparkFS.

I've NetSurf 3.10 running here, too but I don't seem to receive anything.
!NetSurf say "Generating snapshot" but no save dialogue box is appearing.

> If you email me (Pluto@...) I can send you a copy.

Done. Thanks in advance,

Alex

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <5a3845d5bab...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> In article <mpro.rjuatn00...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

[Source code of !Pluto]

>> The code is managed by Subversion, and you can navigate around that
>> using the SourceForge interface to see different revisions, branches
>> and so on.

>> For both of these, you may require a different browser to NetSurf,
>> however.

> I tried !Otter for a while but it had a terrible graphics user
> interface like the port of Firefox before. And it was very slow. Now I
> see OBrowser / Iris Beta listed in !Store. At the end of the window it
> says:

> "The download on !Store is very small, because you will simply be given
> the access details to download your software on RISC OS Development's
> private server. This is where the browsers and future updates will
> appear."

> It is a shame that they claim 49.99 Pounds for it whereas most
> webbrowsers for other systems are for free. OK, it may be a lot of work.
> The only question for me is how long it will work like it was with most
> webbrowsers on RISC OS in the past.

> Can I download it from the RISC OS Development's private server by
> !NetSurf?

Yes, you can download Iris by NetSurf:

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Iris.jpeg (75
kB)

> How big is the file?

57 Megabyte.

> Can I download the source code of !Pluto with it?

I don't know. A simple page like Google won't work here:

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Iris.mp4 (7
MB)

Inspector

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Inspector.jpg
(56 kB)

seems to be very interesting but I cannot do anything there with the
mouse (no reaction).

Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save
dialoge box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or
some keys aren't recognized for example).

For me, it isn't usable. In opposition, NetSurf works very well.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Chris Hughes]

In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:


[snip]

> I don't know. A simple page like Google won't work here:

> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Iris.mp4 (7
> MB)

First I appreciate English is not your first language.

After converting your film to Mpeg2, I noticed a number of things

You obviously also did not notice the page had not fully downloaded to
you, Just below the URL bar a blue line appears as it is loading the page.
On your video it was not showing as fully loaded the google.de page.

Iris is a much more capable and vastly bigger application then anything
else used on RISC OS to date. I also noticed with Iris is was correctly
uses an Https connection to Google.de, whereas via your Netsurf it was
using an insecure http type connection.

You simply need to press enter on your search entry and it would have
worked

NetSurf sadly is not able to cope with a lot of Javascript and other
things whereas Iris is.

Netsurf is also much smaller and thus loads quicker.

> Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save
> dialoge box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or
> some keys aren't recognized for example).

Have you installed the !Boot updates that came with the Iris download?

I use Iris daily as my main web browser now, and very rarely NetSurf, as I
can access more sites with Iris securely, etc.

For example the difference between the BBC website on NetSurf and Iris is
dramatic.


--
Chris Hughes

[Steve Fryatt]

On 23 Oct, Chris Hughes wrote in message
<d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>:

> In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>
> > Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save dialoge
> > box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or some keys
> > aren't recognized for example).
>
> Have you installed the !Boot updates that came with the Iris download?

What hardware is Alexander running Iris on? From the Switcher and Display
Manager icons that's RISC OS 4, so it's either a well-themed RISC OS 5 box
or a RiscPC.

If the latter, then I very much doubt* that it has a processor which
supports Thumb or the other more modern instructions which I'd imagine are
being used by the compiler when building Iris. Javascript, in particular,
relies on Thumb (as it's a port of an engine which can run on ARM-based
phones), so that would make Google's page at best unpredictable in Iris on
hardware which doesn't support Thumb.

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <mpro.rk7ex202...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 23 Oct, Chris Hughes wrote in message
> <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>:

>> In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
>> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save
>>> dialoge box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or
>>> some keys aren't recognized for example).
>>
>> Have you installed the !Boot updates that came with the Iris
>> download?

> What hardware is Alexander running Iris on?

http://shop.elesar.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

> From the Switcher and Display Manager icons that's RISC OS 4, so it's
> either a well-themed RISC OS 5 box or a RiscPC.

I don't know. The machine looks like it was. The version window says
5.24 (16-Apr-18). Is my machine too old? I don't like to buy a new one.

> If the latter, then I very much doubt* that it has a processor which
> supports Thumb or the other more modern instructions which I'd imagine
> are being used by the compiler when building Iris. Javascript, in
> particular, relies on Thumb (as it's a port of an engine which can run
> on ARM-based phones), so that would make Google's page at best
> unpredictable in Iris on hardware which doesn't support Thumb.

I don't know what "Thumb" is.

It seems that the !Iris window has problems with the keyboard here. I
click several times in the window but no cursor appears. And often it
crashes means it is disappearing from the running system without saying
anything.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>,

Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> [snip]

>> I don't know. A simple page like Google won't work here:

>> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Iris.mp4 (7
>> MB)

> First I appreciate English is not your first language.

Surely not. My native "language" is Bavarian like it is spoken in the
south east district of Bavaria at the corner of Austria (Salzburg). It
is very different to what people are speaking in Munich, of course.

> After converting your film to Mpeg2, I noticed a number of things

> You obviously also did not notice the page had not fully downloaded to
> you, Just below the URL bar a blue line appears as it is loading the
> page. On your video it was not showing as fully loaded the google.de
> page.

Iris wasn't able to download the page from Google within one minute?
Strange.

> Iris is a much more capable and vastly bigger application then
> anything else used on RISC OS to date. I also noticed with Iris is
> was correctly uses an Https connection to Google.de, whereas via your
> Netsurf it was using an insecure http type connection.

> You simply need to press enter on your search entry and it would have
> worked

No, it didn't. I pressed the key several times because something
strangness is always covering the letters "Google Search" below the line
when you type in the text you are searching for. But nothing happened.
(I don't like to write here 'button' because buttons looks quite
different in RISC OS.)

> NetSurf sadly is not able to cope with a lot of Javascript and other
> things whereas Iris is.

> Netsurf is also much smaller and thus loads quicker.

>> Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save
>> dialoge box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or
>> some keys aren't recognized for example).

> Have you installed the !Boot updates that came with the Iris download?

Yes, I used !Boot->System to add !System.

> I use Iris daily as my main web browser now, and very rarely NetSurf,
> as I can access more sites with Iris securely, etc.

> For example the difference between the BBC website on NetSurf and Iris
> is dramatic.

There are a lot of websites I don't like at all because of advertisings
and enbetted videos. Often it is good that web pages aren't working.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <5a3beec712b...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> In article <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>,
> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

>> You obviously also did not notice the page had not fully downloaded to
>> you, Just below the URL bar a blue line appears as it is loading the
>> page. On your video it was not showing as fully loaded the google.de
>> page.

> Iris wasn't able to download the page from Google within one minute?
> Strange.

By the way. The first time I used Google from !Iris I got a page like
that:

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Google.jpg (54
kB)

I get this page again after I deleted the content of the file in

ADFS::HardDisc4.$.!Boot.Choices.WWW.Iris.cookies/txt

I never had seen this page in NetSurf. For what is it good?

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Chris Hughes]

In message <5a3bef6c8eb...@chiemgau-net.de>

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> In article <mpro.rk7ex202...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 23 Oct, Chris Hughes wrote in message
>> <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>:

>>> In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
>>> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Iris very often crash here or is doing something faulty (no save
>>>> dialoge box but the file is printed in the window or the keyboard or
>>>> some keys aren't recognized for example).
>>>
>>> Have you installed the !Boot updates that came with the Iris
>>> download?

>> What hardware is Alexander running Iris on?

> http://shop.elesar.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

>> From the Switcher and Display Manager icons that's RISC OS 4, so it's
>> either a well-themed RISC OS 5 box or a RiscPC.

> I don't know. The machine looks like it was. The version window says
> 5.24 (16-Apr-18). Is my machine too old? I don't like to buy a new one.

RISC OS stable version is now 5.28, so 5.24 is pretty old.

But what model of computer is it? Is it a Raspberry Pi and which version,
or is it a ARMX6 etc..


[snip]


--
Chris Hughes

[Chris Hughes]

In message <5a3beec712b...@chiemgau-net.de>

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> In article <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>,
> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <5a3bc3e923b...@chiemgau-net.de>
>> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

>> [snip]

[snip]

>> You obviously also did not notice the page had not fully downloaded to
>> you, Just below the URL bar a blue line appears as it is loading the
>> page. On your video it was not showing as fully loaded the google.de
>> page.

> Iris wasn't able to download the page from Google within one minute?

The speed is of display is going to depend on the performance of your
computer.

Iris on my ARMX6 here is currently consuming 28Mbytes of memory, plus
about 117Mbytes for the Shared Libraries.

So has a lot of data to shift around.

> Strange.

Not really.

Did you notice the very thin blue bar underneath the URL box on the main
Iris window moving across as it loads all the data, etc.

>> Iris is a much more capable and vastly bigger application then
>> anything else used on RISC OS to date. I also noticed with Iris is
>> was correctly uses an Https connection to Google.de, whereas via your
>> Netsurf it was using an insecure http type connection.

>> You simply need to press enter on your search entry and it would have
>> worked

> No, it didn't. I pressed the key several times because something
> strangness is always covering the letters "Google Search" below the line
> when you type in the text you are searching for. But nothing happened.
> (I don't like to write here 'button' because buttons looks quite
> different in RISC OS.)

I suspect the text you have started to see over the Google search button
is the after the first pressed the return key are the predictive text from
Google to what you were typing.

By the way if you just 'Select Click' on the Iris on the icon bar it opens
the home page with various useful website plus the option to search via
three different search engines, Google, DuckDuckGo and Ecosia


[snip]



--
Chris Hughes

[Chris Hughes]

In message <5a3bf03984b...@chiemgau-net.de>

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> In article <5a3beec712b...@chiemgau-net.de>,
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>> In article <d31fd73b5a.chris@mytardis>,
>> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

>>> You obviously also did not notice the page had not fully downloaded to
>>> you, Just below the URL bar a blue line appears as it is loading the
>>> page. On your video it was not showing as fully loaded the google.de
>>> page.

>> Iris wasn't able to download the page from Google within one minute?
>> Strange.

> By the way. The first time I used Google from !Iris I got a page like
> that:

> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-10-22/Google.jpg (54
> kB)

> I get this page again after I deleted the content of the file in

> ADFS::HardDisc4.$.!Boot.Choices.WWW.Iris.cookies/txt

> I never had seen this page in NetSurf. For what is it good?

As it says its to approve or reject Google's website cookies etc.

And will keep reappaering if you keep deleting the cookies/txt file.

So respond to it per the buttons on the bottom of the window.

You will have had in NetSurf at some point in the past and responded one
way or other.


--
Chris Hughes

[Stuart]

In article <a904f13b5a.chris@mytardis>,

Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> But what model of computer is it? Is it a Raspberry Pi and which version,
> or is it a ARMX6 etc..

The link above

http://shop.elesar.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

given by Alex is a Titanium, so should have the resources to run Iris
without issue

--
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

[Steve Fryatt]

On 23 Oct, Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote in message
<5a3bef6c8eb...@chiemgau-net.de>:

> In article <mpro.rk7ex202...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > What hardware is Alexander running Iris on?
>
> http://shop.elesar.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51

OK, that should be fine.

> > From the Switcher and Display Manager icons that's RISC OS 4, so it's
> > either a well-themed RISC OS 5 box or a RiscPC.
>
> I don't know. The machine looks like it was.

Apologies; the Acorn logo looked old, and in that context I got confused
about the vintage of the Display Manager icon (which isn't as old as I'd
thought).

> The version window says 5.24 (16-Apr-18). Is my machine too old? I don't
> like to buy a new one.

That ought to be OK, although you can update the OS when new releases come
out. Elesar won't tell you, as they're fully on board with ensuring that
ROOL updates work on their system. They just assume that you will download
updates from ROOL and do it yourself. As Chris says, we're on 5.28 now, with
5.30 likely looming in the near future.

Personally, I softload for a while on the Titanium (there's a softload tool
in the nightly ROM archives which also works with the stable releases), then
update the flash when I'm happy and have some spare time in order to do it
safely.

> > If the latter, then I very much doubt* that it has a processor which
> > supports Thumb or the other more modern instructions which I'd imagine
> > are being used by the compiler when building Iris. Javascript, in
> > particular, relies on Thumb (as it's a port of an engine which can run
> > on ARM-based phones), so that would make Google's page at best
> > unpredictable in Iris on hardware which doesn't support Thumb.
>
> I don't know what "Thumb" is.

A new instruction set in recent ARM processors (v5 onwards, IIRC) which has
some 16-bit wide opcodes and is aimed at low-power phone stuff. My
recollection from stuff that's been said is that Iris with Javascript uses
some of this functionality, probably because lightweight JS implementations
are more likely to be phone-oriented.

Either way, as that error box says, you need Alignment Exceptions to be
*off* when running Iris, otherwise unexpected things will happen. Unlike all
other RISC OS software, it is using new instruction codes from the new
processors which trigger these exceptions (this is the main reason why I'm
not using Iris; I use other platforms for the web, and given that, the loss
from turning the exceptions off isn't worth it for me).

That error box says that you have Alignment Execptions on, which *will* be
causing problems for Iris. I'd suggest turning them off and seeing if things
improve.

> It seems that the !Iris window has problems with the keyboard here. I
> click several times in the window but no cursor appears. And often it
> crashes means it is disappearing from the running system without saying
> anything.

It definitely works fine on a Titanium, or at least it used to: I've run
older versions here to help ROD with testing things.

[Bryan Hogan]

In message <5a3bef6c8eb...@chiemgau-net.de>
Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

> I don't know. The machine looks like it was. The version window says
> 5.24 (16-Apr-18). Is my machine too old? I don't like to buy a new one.

You need to update your OS version. The documentation for Iris says you
need to be running at least 5.28.

In fact, checking back through my emails, it looks like it was me that
told ROD that it didn't work reliably on 5.24!

Bryan.

--
RISC OS User Group Of London - https://www.rougol.jellybaby.net/
RISC OS London Show - https://www.riscoslondonshow.co.uk/

[Richard Torrens (News)]

In article <5a343872f8b...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> Does anybody here know or remember a progamm called !Attacher with what
> you can convert binary files to BASE64 and back? I think there was
> something like that for RISC OS but I cannot find it.

Attacher is freeeware. So I have just put it at

http://diy.torrens.org/RO/Attacher.zip

--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Torrens. News email address is valid - for a limited time only.
You must use the full News+...@Torrens.org as in the From address.
http://www.Torrens.org for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

[Steve Fryatt]

On 1 Nov, "Richard Torrens (News)" wrote in message
<5a406ff418news*@Torrens.org>:

> In article <5a343872f8b...@chiemgau-net.de>,
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>
> > Does anybody here know or remember a progamm called !Attacher with what
> > you can convert binary files to BASE64 and back? I think there was
> > something like that for RISC OS but I cannot find it.
>
> Attacher is freeeware. So I have just put it at
>
> http://diy.torrens.org/RO/Attacher.zip

That doesn't appear to be the latest version?

[Frank]

In article <mpro.rkvkdn02...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 1 Nov, "Richard Torrens (News)" wrote in message
> <5a406ff418news*@Torrens.org>:

> > In article <5a343872f8b...@chiemgau-net.de>,
> > Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Does anybody here know or remember a progamm called !Attacher with what
> > > you can convert binary files to BASE64 and back? I think there was
> > > something like that for RISC OS but I cannot find it.
> >
> > Attacher is freeeware. So I have just put it at
> >
> > http://diy.torrens.org/RO/Attacher.zip

> That doesn't appear to be the latest version?

Seems close enough. Minor differences:

- the ReadMe1st I added in 2007 is missing and that's fine, as the info
in there is outdated (refers to the iyonix.com site). The !RunImage
and TypeTrans module are correct;

- the !Run contains two lines about the CallASWI module, which weren't
in the most recent version (also 1.05, but 'packaged' in June 2009 -
did that ever make it to John's site?).

Regards,
Frank

[Steve Fryatt]

On 5 Nov, Frank wrote in message
<5a42ad3792...@hotmail.com>:

> - the !Run contains two lines about the CallASWI module, which weren't
> in the most recent version (also 1.05, but 'packaged' in June 2009 -
> did that ever make it to John's site?).

It seems to have done, as that's the version which I was comparing to --
fetched sometime in the past couple of years (the site vinished about 12
months ago, I think).

I'd actually got the two run files confused, and thought it was the version
from John's site which had the CallASWI references. So not significant, all
in all.

[Frank]

In article <mpro.rkw0cw05...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 5 Nov, Frank wrote in message
> <5a42ad3792...@hotmail.com>:

> > - the !Run contains two lines about the CallASWI module, which weren't
> > in the most recent version (also 1.05, but 'packaged' in June 2009 -
> > did that ever make it to John's site?).

> It seems to have done, as that's the version which I was comparing to --
> fetched sometime in the past couple of years (the site vinished about 12
> months ago, I think).

Actually, the site is still there / back up: http://www.johnallen.com/

> I'd actually got the two run files confused, and thought it was the version
> from John's site which had the CallASWI references.

I just checked: the June 2009 version, without the CallASWI lines, did
indeed make it to John's site.

Regards,
Frank

[Steve Fryatt]

On 5 Nov, Frank wrote in message

<5a42bec738...@hotmail.com>:

> In article <mpro.rkw0cw05...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > It seems to have done, as that's the version which I was comparing to --
> > fetched sometime in the past couple of years (the site vinished about 12
> > months ago, I think).
>
> Actually, the site is still there / back up: http://www.johnallen.com/

Definitely back up, as it's been unavailable (here, at least) for several
months.

It's good news that it's back, though!

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <f821f33b5a.chris@mytardis>,

It isn't happen when I delete the contents of the file

ADFS::HardDisc4.$.!Boot.Choices.WWW.NetSurf.Cookies

like in !Iris. It just shows the Google search page and doesn't ask you
for anything.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <1990f23b5a.chris@mytardis>,

Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5a3beec712b...@chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

[Iris webbrowser]

> Did you notice the very thin blue bar underneath the URL box on the main
> Iris window moving across as it loads all the data, etc.

No, I didn't recognized it because something like that is new to me. Why
the hell the author didn't use the hourglass of RISC OS when the mouse
pointer is over the window of !Iris? I think !Iris is very often
stucked. Often I can wait four hours. Also with simple webpages like
Google. I don't know why. !NetSurf works very well here.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <fa3d313c...@helpful-demon.co.uk>,

Bryan Hogan <sp...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> In message <5a3bef6c8eb...@chiemgau-net.de>
> Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:

>> I don't know. The machine looks like it was. The version window says
>> 5.24 (16-Apr-18). Is my machine too old? I don't like to buy a new
>> one.

> You need to update your OS version. The documentation for Iris says you
> need to be running at least 5.28.

It's a shame that it doesn't work properly with older versions of RISC
OS like !NetSurf does.

> In fact, checking back through my emails, it looks like it was me that
> told ROD that it didn't work reliably on 5.24!

So it is useless for me. I will not update my machine because I fear to
damage it.

The only source I found is in rComp's !Store but there are no
requirements for the browser printed or listed:

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-11-06/IrisPlingStore.jpeg
(131 kB)

You will find the requirements AFTER paying and downloading it. This is
a bit of sending somebody up.

It was always a problem for RISC OS users to get the information they
need in a usefull and understandable way.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/

[Harriet Bazley]

On 6 Nov 2022 as I do recall,

Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote:

> In article <1990f23b5a.chris@mytardis>,
> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <5a3beec712b...@chiemgau-net.de>
> > Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
>
> [Iris webbrowser]
>
> > Did you notice the very thin blue bar underneath the URL box on the main
> > Iris window moving across as it loads all the data, etc.
>
> No, I didn't recognized it because something like that is new to me. Why
> the hell the author didn't use the hourglass of RISC OS when the mouse
> pointer is over the window of !Iris?

Because the program - as I understand it - is a port of a foreign
browser from a completely different operating system that doesn't
understand RISC OS conventions. Iris doesn't have proper scrollbars
either; presumably the odd pop-up things that appear on the right-hand
side of the window when you put your mouse there are the scrollbar
equivalent on whatever version of Linux it was written for....

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

The attacker must vanquish; the defender need only survive.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 6 Nov, Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote in message
<5a43008562b...@chiemgau-net.de>:

> In article <fa3d313c...@helpful-demon.co.uk>,
> Bryan Hogan <sp...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>
> > In fact, checking back through my emails, it looks like it was me that
> > told ROD that it didn't work reliably on 5.24!
>
> So it is useless for me. I will not update my machine because I fear to
> damage it.

Re-flashing a Titanium isn't /that/ bad an operation, but as I wrote in an
earlier post, if you don't want to do it, you can always soft-load the newer
ROM images over the one in Flash ROM as the machine boots -- or even just on
demand.

The nightly builds of RISC OS 5 for the Ti come with a soft-loader in the
archive. That works just fine with a stable ROM image as well.

I'm afraid the reality is that to keep up with new software for the
platform, you often will need the latest RISC OS 5. I stumbled across
another example the other day, because in a lot of cases, software and OS
are being improved together in parallel.

> The only source I found is in rComp's !Store but there are no requirements
> for the browser printed or listed:
>
>
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-11-06/IrisPlingStore.jpeg
> (131 kB)

PlingStore is very bad at providing requirements and dates for releases,
unfortunately.

> You will find the requirements AFTER paying and downloading it. This is a
> bit of sending somebody up.

If it's really a problem to update your machine, then the fact that it isn't
made clear that Iris doesn't work on 5.24 should be enough to get your money
back from ROD under consumer law (if asking Andrew nicely doesn't work, of
course).

> It was always a problem for RISC OS users to get the information they need
> in a usefull and understandable way.

Sometimes I wonder how much of this the software distributors (not
developers) themselves understand.

[Stuart]

In article <5a43008562b...@chiemgau-net.de>,

Alexander Ausserstorfer <bavari...@chiemgau-net.de> wrote:
> So it is useless for me. I will not update my machine because I fear to
> damage it.

Risc OS is subject to ongoing updates and if you do not update you will
loose out in a lot of ways. The new TCPI stack for example.

https://www.riscosdev.com/projects/

Also, a newer still version is due shortly.

https://www.riscosopen.org/news/articles/2022/09/29/clock-ticks-towards-5-30-finishing-time

I seem to recall you have a Titanium and if you have doubts I am sure help
and advice will be available if you contact Elesar

http://support.elesar.co.uk/

[Stuart]

In article <17f805435...@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,

Harriet Bazley <har...@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:
> Because the program - as I understand it - is a port of a foreign
> browser from a completely different operating system that doesn't
> understand RISC OS conventions. Iris doesn't have proper scrollbars
> either; presumably the odd pop-up things that appear on the right-hand
> side of the window when you put your mouse there are the scrollbar
> equivalent on whatever version of Linux it was written for....

It must also be remembered that it is still a "work in progress".

[Dave]

In article <5a43123f...@argonet.co.uk>,

Stuart <Spa...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <17f805435...@bazleyfamily.co.uk>,
> Harriet Bazley <har...@bazleyfamily.co.uk> wrote:
> > Because the program - as I understand it - is a port of a foreign
> > browser from a completely different operating system that doesn't
> > understand RISC OS conventions. Iris doesn't have proper scrollbars
> > either; presumably the odd pop-up things that appear on the right-hand
> > side of the window when you put your mouse there are the scrollbar
> > equivalent on whatever version of Linux it was written for....

> It must also be remembered that it is still a "work in progress".

Back in the days... Wasn't that the bog reply to !Oregano questions?

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[Alexander Ausserstorfer]

In article <mpro.rkx9au00...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 6 Nov, Alexander Ausserstorfer wrote in message
> <5a43008562b...@chiemgau-net.de>:

>> In article <fa3d313c...@helpful-demon.co.uk>,
>> Bryan Hogan <sp...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > In fact, checking back through my emails, it looks like it was me
>> > that told ROD that it didn't work reliably on 5.24!
>>
>> So it is useless for me. I will not update my machine because I fear
>> to damage it.

> Re-flashing a Titanium isn't /that/ bad an operation, but as I wrote
> in an earlier post, if you don't want to do it, you can always
> soft-load the newer ROM images over the one in Flash ROM as the
> machine boots -- or even just on demand.

> The nightly builds of RISC OS 5 for the Ti come with a soft-loader in
> the archive. That works just fine with a stable ROM image as well.

> I'm afraid the reality is that to keep up with new software for the
> platform, you often will need the latest RISC OS 5. I stumbled across
> another example the other day, because in a lot of cases, software and
> OS are being improved together in parallel.

I had tried RISC OS 5.28 softloaded in former times but it caused a lot
of problemes here why I sticked by RISC OS 5.24.

Unfortunatelly, today I had suddenly problems with the desktop -
couldn't changed the picture or anything else of it. It seems to me that
!Boot was damaged I don't know why that's why I did a new copy from a
resource here on my harddisc - but it was the !Boot of RISC OS 5.28. So
I tried it today again and no it runs softloaded but I had a lot of
problems (and will have I'm sure). So the Internet stack didn't worked
and such things.

And yes, !Iris works much better with RISC OS 5.28 but also not without
problems:

http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-11-27/Isip.jpg (239
kB)

I don't understand why I cannot just simple save the JPG but I think the
webbrowser isn't the problem. It is the hoster because it wasn't also
the ordinary way doing that by Firefox on Windows.

>> The only source I found is in rComp's !Store but there are no
>> requirements for the browser printed or listed:
>>
>>
> http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/Temp/2022-11-06/IrisPlingStore.jpeg
> (131 kB)

> PlingStore is very bad at providing requirements and dates for
> releases, unfortunately.

>> You will find the requirements AFTER paying and downloading it. This is a
>> bit of sending somebody up.

> If it's really a problem to update your machine, then the fact that it
> isn't made clear that Iris doesn't work on 5.24 should be enough to
> get your money back from ROD under consumer law (if asking Andrew
> nicely doesn't work, of course).

No, they should keep it. I'm just not very happy about the fact that it
is often very difficult to get information for RISC OS users.

A.

--
http://home.chiemgau-net.de/ausserstorfer/