Boot Log Entry
Brian Carroll
RISC OS 4.39, the following entry is made in Boot Log:
17 Nov 16:10:49 080 Look at: Could not locate 'Boot:^.Filing'
There are no entries in the log (which goes back to 1 Apr 09)
except this one. There have been no problems with Booting
during this period.
I cannot work out what this means: what does the 080 mean? could
it have a connection with Config -> Boot -> Look_at? is 'Filing'
a filename?
Any help/suggestions welcome.
Brian.
--
______________________________________________________________
Brian Carroll, Ripon, N Yorks, UK briancarroll at f2s dot com
______________________________________________________________
Tony Moore
> I have just discovered that every time I boot my RiscPC, running
> RISC OS 4.39, the following entry is made in Boot Log:
>
> 17 Nov 16:10:49 080 Look at: Could not locate 'Boot:^.Filing'
>
> There are no entries in the log (which goes back to 1 Apr 09)
> except this one. There have been no problems with Booting
> during this period.
>
> I cannot work out what this means: what does the 080 mean? could
> it have a connection with Config -> Boot -> Look_at? is 'Filing'
> a filename?
'Filing' was a directory which you added to Boot Look at. The directory
is no longer present, hence the error number 080. To suppress the error,
delete, or comment out, the 'IfThere Boot:^.Filing ...' command, which
still lurks in !Boot.Choices.Users.Single.Boot.Desktop
Tony
Steve Fryatt
<50bbb7e916...@argonet.co.uk>:
> I have just discovered that every time I boot my RiscPC, running RISC OS
> 4.39, the following entry is made in Boot Log:
>
> 17 Nov 16:10:49 080 Look at: Could not locate 'Boot:^.Filing'
>
> There are no entries in the log (which goes back to 1 Apr 09) except this
> one. There have been no problems with Booting during this period.
>
> I cannot work out what this means: what does the 080 mean?
It's the log level: logged items range from importance level 0 (described by
the SysLog manual as "Armageddon imminent") to 255 (described as "Water
discovered in ocean"). By default, only log entries of less than 125 get
stored in the file (you can change this if you're looking for more info to
diagnose a problem).
> could it have a connection with Config -> Boot -> Look_at? is 'Filing' a
> filename?
That's likely; also Config >> Run, or also entries in the Choices:Boot.Tasks
and .PreDesk files.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
Brian Carroll
Absolutely spot on, Tony. Thankyou. 'Filing' is not in the
'in-use' single-user Desktop file you cite, but it /is/ in
!Boot.Choices.Default.Boot.Desktop; which says at the top:
| This file is modified by the configuration plugins; it is run
| by every user to force them all to have a particular
| application loaded.
I remember now being miffed by RISC OS Ltd taking it upon
themselves to decide how I want to file stuff and wiping that
directory off one of the new Select installations. I don't want
to be '...forced to have a particular application loaded'; and I
particularly don't want to boot the whole of Printers and
Utilities which contain masses of stuff. I choose how I want to
set up my machine in Config. So most of the 'Default' Desktop can
be REMmed out.
The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not modified
by the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
Thank you Steve also, for explaining logging levels.
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I remember now being miffed by RISC OS Ltd taking it upon
> themselves to decide how I want to file stuff and wiping that
> directory off one of the new Select installations. I don't want
> to be '...forced to have a particular application loaded'; and I
> particularly don't want to boot the whole of Printers and
> Utilities which contain masses of stuff. I choose how I want to
> set up my machine in Config. So most of the 'Default' Desktop can
> be REMmed out.
AIUI ROL aren't forcing you, what they are doing is allowing you to set the
system up (if you so want) so that 'all users' are forced to load something.
You choose to put something in there or not.
> The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not modified
> by the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
I've never bothered with muliple users but I think if you are logged in, in a
particular way, config will allow it to be modified.
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
Brian Carroll
Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <50bc1f24d2...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
> Carroll <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > | This file is modified by the configuration plugins; it is
> > | run by every user to force them all to have a particular
> > | application loaded.
> > I remember now being miffed by RISC OS Ltd taking it upon
> > themselves to decide how I want to file stuff and wiping
> > that directory off one of the new Select installations. I
> > don't want to be '...forced to have a particular application
> > loaded'; and I particularly don't want to boot the whole of
> > Printers and Utilities which contain masses of stuff. I
> > choose how I want to set up my machine in Config. So most of
> > the 'Default' Desktop can be REMmed out.
> AIUI ROL aren't forcing you, what they are doing is allowing
> you to set the system up (if you so want) so that 'all users'
> are forced to load something....
I beg to differ: That's not what RISCOS LTD's own comment (which
I have re-inserted) states and that's exactly what has been
happening here for years without me knowing.
> ...You choose to put something in there or not.
No. I have never put anything there. The file here is forcing
booting of the whole of !Printers and !Utilities applications
and tasks. Then !Printers+ is added to Apps if it's in Printing,
etc, etc. Even RISC OS 6 contains much the same file, also
making everyone run !HomeFiler - whatever that is.
I accept that once upon a time in the misty past people
generally had relatively few applications, so is was not a bad
idea to have a few standard directories in the root. We have
moved on, with hundreds of applications! And with a multitude of
Launchers and Multi-Screens we can do without any pre-conceived
arrangements of root directories or 'Apps' that are very
unlikely to suit anyone but a complete novice.
> > The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not
> > modified by the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
> I've never bothered with muliple users but I think if you are
> logged in, in a particular way, config will allow it to be
> modified.
You may be right. But if you with your multiple business
machines do not need multiple users, who does?
Tony Moore
[snip]
> Even RISC OS 6 contains much the same file, also making everyone run
> !HomeFiler - whatever that is.
You're right - I hadn't noticed that HomeFiler was being run. It's now
stopped. HomeFiler was in Boot.Resources, and its help file says that:
The HomeFiler provides an iconbar icon to access the 'home'
directory for a user. This is the usual place where the user
will store their files. The location that HomeFiler accesses
can be changed in the User manager.
Note the imperative 'will'! In spite of HomeFiler being run,
inadvertently, I've never seen its iconbar icon, so I suspect that it
appears only if multiple users are configured.
Tony
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant18132...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
> Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <50bc1f24d2...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
> > Carroll <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > | This file is modified by the configuration plugins; it is
> > > | run by every user to force them all to have a particular
> > > | application loaded.
>
> > > I remember now being miffed by RISC OS Ltd taking it upon
> > > themselves to decide how I want to file stuff and wiping
> > > that directory off one of the new Select installations. I
> > > don't want to be '...forced to have a particular application
> > > loaded'; and I particularly don't want to boot the whole of
> > > Printers and Utilities which contain masses of stuff. I
> > > choose how I want to set up my machine in Config. So most of
> > > the 'Default' Desktop can be REMmed out.
>
> > AIUI ROL aren't forcing you, what they are doing is allowing
> > you to set the system up (if you so want) so that 'all users'
> > are forced to load something....
>
> I beg to differ: That's not what RISCOS LTD's own comment (which
> I have re-inserted) states and that's exactly what has been
> happening here for years without me knowing.
Sorry I'd looked in:
!Boot.Choices.Users.Single.Boot.Desktop
not:
!Boot.Choices.Default.Boot.Desktop
However since RISC OS 3.50 has always filer booted the contents of $.Apps
$.printing & $.Utilities (the default options in 6.16).
Several versions of OS 3.5 & 3.6 used to abort their booting if the
directories $.printing and/or $.Utilities were not present.
So ROL only changed the location it is stored.
> > ...You choose to put something in there or not.
>
> No. I have never put anything there. The file here is forcing
> booting of the whole of !Printers and !Utilities applications
> and tasks. Then !Printers+ is added to Apps if it's in Printing,
> etc, etc. Even RISC OS 6 contains much the same file, also
> making everyone run !HomeFiler - whatever that is.
>
> I accept that once upon a time in the misty past people
> generally had relatively few applications, so is was not a bad
> idea to have a few standard directories in the root. We have
> moved on, with hundreds of applications! And with a multitude of
> Launchers and Multi-Screens we can do without any pre-conceived
> arrangements of root directories or 'Apps' that are very
> unlikely to suit anyone but a complete novice.
>
> > > The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not
> > > modified by the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
>
> > I've never bothered with muliple users but I think if you are
> > logged in, in a particular way, config will allow it to be
> > modified.
>
> You may be right. But if you with your multiple business
> machines do not need multiple users, who does?
We tend to use our 'own' computers rather than multiple people use the same
computer.
Re a plug in to configure editing it, another possibility is the entended
plug never happened!
Steve Potts
Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> In spite of HomeFiler being run, inadvertently, I've never seen its iconbar
> icon, so I suspect that it appears only if multiple users are configured.
Correct.
I figured it is similar in concept to the home directories for different
users on Linix. It's purely a short-cut way to get to the relevant
directory.
Steve.
--
StevePotts at blastzone DOT demon STOP co DOT uk (www.blastzone.demon.co.uk/)
Written on RISC OS.
http://www.riscos.com/
Steve Fryatt
<50bc2cbea1...@argonet.co.uk>:
> In article <ant18132...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris Evans
> <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > ...You choose to put something in there or not.
>
> No. I have never put anything there. The file here is forcing booting of
> the whole of !Printers and !Utilities applications and tasks. Then
> !Printers+ is added to Apps if it's in Printing,
> etc, etc. Even RISC OS 6 contains much the same file, also
> making everyone run !HomeFiler - whatever that is.
RISC OS has done this, bar the HomeFiler bit perhaps, for a long time -- at
least since RISC OS 4.
> I accept that once upon a time in the misty past people generally had
> relatively few applications, so is was not a bad idea to have a few
> standard directories in the root. We have moved on, with hundreds of
> applications! And with a multitude of Launchers and Multi-Screens we can
> do without any pre-conceived arrangements of root directories or 'Apps'
> that are very unlikely to suit anyone but a complete novice.
Have we officially given up on the idea that RISC OS might get the
occasional new user, then?
;-)
> > > The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not modified by
> > > the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
>
> > I've never bothered with muliple users but I think if you are logged in,
> > in a particular way, config will allow it to be modified.
>
> You may be right. But if you with your multiple business machines do not
> need multiple users, who does?
I certainly use the facility: the machines I bring to shows, for example,
have a 'show' user with different settings and files available by default.
The user home directories (which were there in RO4.39) are useful for this,
too.
Graham Thurlwell
> In article <50bc2cbea1...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Carroll
> <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
[All User settings in Boot Configuration]
> Re a plug in to configure editing it, another possibility is the entended
> plug never happened!
Actually, the configure plugin's been in there for over five years
(since Select 3i4 and probably a lot earlier) - just Brian and Tony
have evidently never found out how to use it properly.
I find loading !Help with 'hide common messages' turned off and seeing
what things are for every now and again a very useful thing to do.
Reading The Fine Manual on occasion is also handy. ;-)
--
Graham Thurlwell
Jades' First Encounters Site
http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
Tony Moore
> On the 18 Nov 2009, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <50bc2cbea1...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Carroll
> > <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> [All User settings in Boot Configuration]
>
> > Re a plug in to configure editing it, another possibility is the
> > entended plug never happened!
>
> Actually, the configure plugin's been in there for over five years
> (since Select 3i4 and probably a lot earlier) - just Brian and Tony
> have evidently never found out how to use it properly.
If we're still talking about Configuration > Users, I've never found it
useful to set up multiple accounts, when I'm the sole user.
Tony
Graham Thurlwell
No, I'm talking about Configure -> Boot Configuration -> Add to
Apps/Look at/Run, wherein you configure the All Users options. Click
the Menu icon in the top right of the window and select All Users.
Those are the applets that configure the various Desktop Boot files.
HTH.
Brian Carroll
Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
[Snip]
> Actually, the configure plugin's been in there for over five
> years (since Select 3i4 and probably a lot earlier) - just
> Brian and Tony have evidently never found out how to use it
> properly.
Please explain exactly what you mean by 'properly'.
druck
> If we're still talking about Configuration > Users, I've never found it
> useful to set up multiple accounts, when I'm the sole user.
It's very useful as it allows you have your usual full fat boot up on
your normal user account, and to have a special 'slim' user which
doesn't run any 3rd party stuff in the !Boot. This allow you to easily
switch in to a (very nearly) clean boot to try and tack down any boot
issues.
---druck
--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
32 bit Conversions Page - http://www.armclub.org.uk/32bit/
Tony Moore
> On the 23 Nov 2009, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 23 Nov 2009, Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
> > > On the 18 Nov 2009, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > In article <50bc2cbea1...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Carroll
> > > > <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > [All User settings in Boot Configuration]
> > >
> > > > Re a plug in to configure editing it, another possibility is the
> > > > entended plug never happened!
> > >
> > > Actually, the configure plugin's been in there for over five years
> > > (since Select 3i4 and probably a lot earlier) - just Brian and
> > > Tony have evidently never found out how to use it properly.
>
> > If we're still talking about Configuration > Users, I've never found
> > it useful to set up multiple accounts, when I'm the sole user.
>
> No, I'm talking about Configure -> Boot Configuration -> Add to
> Apps/Look at/Run, wherein you configure the All Users options. Click
> the Menu icon in the top right of the window and select All Users.
> Those are the applets that configure the various Desktop Boot files.
Sorry, I misunderstood. However, I am still not clear as to the
relevance of 'All users' when a single user has been configured. For the
record:
'Add to the Apps folder (all users)' contains ADFS::ide.$.Apps, which is
still present in the directory tree, and its related entry is active in
ADFS::ide.$.!boot.choices.Default.Boot.Desktop. I suppose that, for the
sake of consistency, this should appear in 'Single user'.
'Boot at startup (all users)' contains greyed-out ADFS::ide.$.Utilities
and greyed-out ADFS::ide.$.Printing. Both directories were removed from
the directory tree, long ago, and the related entries are commented out
in ADFS::ide.$.!boot.choices.Default.Boot.Desktop .
'Run at startup (all users)' contains greyed-out
ADFS::ide.$.!BOOT.Resources.!HomeFiler which was removed from the
directory tree, a few days ago, and the related entry is commented out
in ADFS::ide.$.!boot.choices.Default.Boot.Desktop.
Tony
Tony Moore
> On 23 Nov 2009 Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > If we're still talking about Configuration > Users, I've never found
> > it useful to set up multiple accounts, when I'm the sole user.
>
> It's very useful as it allows you have your usual full fat boot up on
> your normal user account, and to have a special 'slim' user which
> doesn't run any 3rd party stuff in the !Boot. This allow you to easily
> switch in to a (very nearly) clean boot to try and tack down any boot
> issues.
Yes, now that is a good idea, which I'd not previously considered. I
hadn't seen this post when I responded to Graham, a few moments ago.
Tony
Graham Thurlwell
> In article <ant18132...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>, Chris
> Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <50bc1f24d2...@argonet.co.uk>, Brian
>> Carroll <URL:mailto:bric-...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>> AIUI ROL aren't forcing you, what they are doing is allowing you to
>> set the system up (if you so want) so that 'all users' are forced to
>> load something....
> I beg to differ: That's not what RISCOS LTD's own comment (which I
> have re-inserted) states
Don't you think you may be taking it a /little/ too personally? ;-)
> and that's exactly what has been happening here for years without me knowing.
That would suggest to me that you haven't actually been inconvenienced
and have only noticed after you started manually editing your boot
sequence (and if you think that's complicated try editing the Hosts
File on OSX Leopard).
Other than putting stuff in the Resources, Tasks and PreDesk
directories (and you really should use the !Boot/!System skeletons
that virtually every bit of software comes with and install them using
the relevant Configure applets) you don't need to mess around inside
!Boot these days. Using Configure is much less hassle.
>> ...You choose to put something in there or not.
> No. I have never put anything there. The file here is forcing booting
> of the whole of !Printers and !Utilities applications and tasks.
For new users or fresh systems that's actually quite useful, even if
it isn't so much for more experienced users who'd know when to load
certain things when they need them.
In any case, it's trivially easy to knock off stuff you don't like in
the All Users section of the Boot Configuration applets, which are
where, surprisingly, you can configure your boot sequence without
driving yourself mental trying to work out how it's supposed to work.
> Then !Printers+ is added to Apps if it's in Printing, etc, etc.
Only if you've told it to do so, IIRC. A stock 'All Users' 'Add to
Apps' only adds the contents of Boot:^.Apps - pretty sure anyway, all
of the systems we have here have now been customised.
> Even RISC OS 6 contains much the same file, also making everyone run
> !HomeFiler - whatever that is.
It's basically !TinyDirs with a fancy new name - if you've configured
multiple users, it can be pointed at a specified directory. The
directory will be one that's already existing on your hard drive so,
for example, you could point it at IDEFS::WorkSpace.Dad.Foo.Bar and
access it in one click on the iconbar icon rather than having to wade
through your directory structure every time.
It doesn't load it if the user has no Home Directory configured. Even
if they do, it only takes up 32K. If the loss of 32K is a problem to
you, I suspect that you are likely to have more serious things to
worry about on your machine.
<snip>
>>> The comment quoted is also inaccurate in that it is not
>>> modified by the config plug-ins as far as I can tell.
>> I've never bothered with muliple users but I think if you are
>> logged in, in a particular way, config will allow it to be
>> modified.
> You may be right. But if you with your multiple business
> machines do not need multiple users, who does?
I do. While I'm virtually always the only actual user of my A7000+,
I've set up a number of users for when I want to do specific tasks. I
find it very handy.
My WebDes profile, for example, automatically loads the applications I
use for editing my site, sets up the Pinboard and sets the Home
Directory to the main website directory. I also have a dedicated user
for Elite that loads all of the various stuff. Another user is
configured to load as little as possible - the intended use being
troubleshooting.
The RISC OS user system also allows you to automatically select a user
profile on startup if no key has been pressed after a certain time
period. On my A7000+, I've set up a 'Normal' profile as this, which I
use for the majority of the time I'm using the machine.
The Omega, which /does/ have multiple actual users is set up in Single
User mode and always has been, but with that machine our mantra has
always been "keep it as simple as possible."
HTH!
Graham Thurlwell
> In article <b921cfbe...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com>,
> Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
> [Snip]
>> Actually, the configure plugin's been in there for over five
>> years (since Select 3i4 and probably a lot earlier) - just
>> Brian and Tony have evidently never found out how to use it
>> properly.
> Please explain exactly what you mean by 'properly'.
ROL have provided proper configure plugins to set up the boot sequence
without the user having to delve around manually editing it
themselves. I've put a more detailed explanation in my post
<292455bf...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com> which hopefully
explains things better.
John Williams (News)
Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
> ROL have provided proper configure plugins to set up the boot sequence
> without the user having to delve around manually editing it
> themselves.
Simplification or obfuscation?
John
--
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/ Somewhere nice to stay in Brittany? http://petit.four.free.fr/visitors/locate
Graham Thurlwell
wrote:
> In article <a4e15fbf...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com>,
> Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
>> ROL have provided proper configure plugins to set up the boot sequence
>> without the user having to delve around manually editing it
>> themselves.
> Simplification or obfuscation?
Simplification - IMHO the Boot sequence has been a bloody nightmare to
maintain manually ever since New Boot and for me the finest
achievement of Select is that configuring the machine in general is a
damned sight easier than it used to be.
It would've been better if the name in the actual boot structure
matched that on the applets of course, but there you go! The !ReadMe
in Choices.Default does mention that the intention of that directory
is to provide configuration for all users, but that assumes that the
user actually reads it. Calling it Choices.AllUsers may have been a
better idea IMHO.
Graham Thurlwell
> On 23 Nov 2009, Graham Thurlwell <nos...@jades.org> wrote:
<snip>
>> I'm talking about Configure -> Boot Configuration -> Add to
>> Apps/Look at/Run, wherein you configure the All Users options. Click
>> the Menu icon in the top right of the window and select All Users.
>> Those are the applets that configure the various Desktop Boot files.
> Sorry, I misunderstood.
That's OK, the menu icon for the All Users thing is quite easy to
miss. The significance is also not immediately obvious to people who
are used to running as a single user - I confess it took me a while to
figure it out myself!
> However, I am still not clear as to the relevance of 'All users' when
> a single user has been configured.
The All Users options are run regardless of whether or not you
actually have additional users. These are stored in Choices.Default -
the fact the config plugins refer to 'All Users' but the actual
directory in the boot sequence is called 'Default' isn't exactly
helpful.
Obviously, the vast majority of people's machines' config is
ultimately within Choices.Users.Single so the usefulness of All Users
isn't that great but when you /are/ using multiple users you'd be
surprised just how handy it is if there are certain things that
everyone needs to have seen - a good example of this is things like
!NewsDir if it's been moved from !Boot.Resources or Easy Font Pro.
One nice feature of the Users applet is that if one does decide to
enable multiple users, the Create User option can clone all of the
choices from Single and you can customise it from there.
> For the record:
I've gone into quite a bit of detail in my post
<292455bf...@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com> if you haven't already
seen it, so I'll limit my reply to additional points you've raised.
> 'Add to the Apps folder (all users)' contains ADFS::ide.$.Apps, which is
> still present in the directory tree, and its related entry is active in
> ADFS::ide.$.!boot.choices.Default.Boot.Desktop. I suppose that, for the
> sake of consistency, this should appear in 'Single user'.
It doesn't need to - AIUI, the boot sequence goes through whatever's
set in Choices.Default first and then goes through the choices for the
active user. This is, of course, the reason why all users will have
!Draw, !Paint etc accessible from the Apps iconbar icon (unless
they've altered their config).
> 'Boot at startup (all users)' contains greyed-out ADFS::ide.$.Utilities
> and greyed-out ADFS::ide.$.Printing. Both directories were removed from
> the directory tree, long ago, and the related entries are commented out
> in ADFS::ide.$.!boot.choices.Default.Boot.Desktop .
What you've done there is do manually exactly what the Boot
Configuration applets do if you select 'Disable' for the item - which
is why the options are still listed but greyed out. Chosing 'Remove'
deletes the lines all together.
HTH!