Printing from RISC OS 5

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

Has anyone any idea of where to get modern printer drivers from?
I have been trying to get RISC OS 5.28 (on the Rasberry 4) to print
direct via USB to a HP Envy 4500 printer.

I tried various drivers within the PrintDefs to no avail.

Stephen




--

[Chris Newman]

In article <7ae827a4...@btopenworld.com>,

<stephe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Has anyone any idea of where to get modern printer drivers from?
> I have been trying to get RISC OS 5.28 (on the Rasberry 4) to print
> direct via USB to a HP Envy 4500 printer.

Is that ink jet or Laser?

I'm trying to remember how I did it.

Can the Pi "see" the printer? Use Paul Reuvers' !USBinfo to check.

If not, use Ian Hamilton's !PrtSet2USB to set/check the connection.

--
Chris Newman

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <59a47799...@waitrose.com>

Hi, it is an inkjet all in one wireless and or USB.

I have tried the above programs and they do show the printer is
connected from the Raspberry and when I drop a file on the printer icon
it does send it as the printer window shows "Now printing" but nothing
is actually printed which is why I think I need a specific printer
driver.

I have tried various combinations from the HP !Printdef list but non
have worked so far.

--

[Chris Newman]

In article <55538aa4...@btopenworld.com>,

Just sent you all my HP defs privately in case I have one you don't.

--
Chris Newman

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <59a48c45...@waitrose.com>

Thanks Chris,
I have tried most of them to no avail. although I still have a few left
to try.

Stephen
--

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <mpro.r53e6b0927z...@iwhitmore.net>

Ian Whitmore <iwhi...@iwhitmore.net> wrote:

>Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <55538aa4...@btopenworld.com>,
>> <stephe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > In message <59a47799...@waitrose.com>
>> > Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > In article <7ae827a4...@btopenworld.com>,
>> > > <stephe...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > > > Has anyone any idea of where to get modern printer drivers from? I
>> > > > have been trying to get RISC OS 5.28 (on the Rasberry 4) to print
>> > > > direct via USB to a HP Envy 4500 printer.
>> > >
>> > > Is that ink jet or Laser?
>> > >
>> > > I'm trying to remember how I did it.
>> > >
>> > > Can the Pi "see" the printer? Use Paul Reuvers' !USBinfo to check.
>> > >
>> > > If not, use Ian Hamilton's !PrtSet2USB to set/check the connection.
>> > >
>>
>> > Hi, it is an inkjet all in one wireless and or USB.
>>
>> > I have tried the above programs and they do show the printer is
>> > connected from the Raspberry and when I drop a file on the printer icon
>> > it does send it as the printer window shows "Now printing" but nothing
>> > is actually printed which is why I think I need a specific printer
>> > driver.
>>
>> > I have tried various combinations from the HP !Printdef list but non
>> > have worked so far.
>>
>> Just sent you all my HP defs privately in case I have one you don't.
>>

>I just checked the HP website and they quote the language used as PCL3 GUI.
>
>Looking on RISC OS Open
>https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/forums/11/topics/9285 there is a statement
>from 2017 that "Gutenprint has a PCL3GUI driver, so that should work. "
>although later people have trouble using it as it is slow.
>On the same page CJEmicros offer a possible driver at
>http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/micros/individual/newprodpages/prodinfo.php?prodcode=4D-HP9X0ROD
>There is a test file you can download to try before you buy.
>
>Hope this helps,
>Ian

Yes thanks but the test file does not work, strange that nothing seems
to fire up the printer, I've not given up yet though.

Stephen

--

[Chris Newman]

Having said that, I haven't got my HP Deskjet 5610 working from RISC OS.
I used to use Uniprint through the Windows machine until it ceased to
function several Windows updates ago. I now use a laser printer from R5
on the Pi.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Hughes]

In message <59a5002d...@waitrose.com>

Re Uniprint, I still have mine working most days, from RO5 to Win10
usually without issues.

Are you on the current versions of Uniprint 4.10a, and the corresponding
module on the Win10 side?

--
Chris Hughes

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <59a5002d...@waitrose.com>
Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

I thought that at least one of the HP drivers might have worked even
partially, seems to be the drivers are too old and printers too new.

I can still use uniprint on ViruallAcorn but would love to get printing
from the Raspberry, sort of hoped to use the Raspberry Pi instead but it
doesn't look like that is going to happen sadly.

Anyway thanks for all your help, I think the only way is to purchase an
all in one printer that is known to work with RISC OS 5 and even if I
tried with Wi-Fi I would still end up with the same connection problem.

Regards

Stephen


--

[Chris Hughes]

In message <603d05a5...@btopenworld.com>

You could ask CJE Micros if they might get their driver to work with that
printer.

> I can still use uniprint on ViruallAcorn but would love to get printing
> from the Raspberry, sort of hoped to use the Raspberry Pi instead but it
> doesn't look like that is going to happen sadly.

UniPrint will work happily from a Raspberry Pi with RISC OS 5 on it.

> Anyway thanks for all your help, I think the only way is to purchase an
> all in one printer that is known to work with RISC OS 5 and even if I
> tried with Wi-Fi I would still end up with the same connection problem.

If wanting help with a printer purchase I suggest either R-Comp or CJE
Micro's should be able to help.

Problem with all-in-one inkjet printers for RISC OS is you will probably
only get the printing side working directly.

There are a few Inkjets that support Postscript, but tend to be expensive.

I lot of Laser Printers support either PCL 5/6 or Postscript so more
easily supported from RISCOS but still have the issue of scanning/copying,
not being available.

> Regards

> Stephen




--
Chris Hughes

[Chris Newman]

In article <2be703a5...@mytarbis.plus.com>, Chris Hughes

<new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> Re Uniprint, I still have mine working most days, from RO5 to Win10
> usually without issues.

> Are you on the current versions of Uniprint 4.10a, and the
> corresponding module on the Win10 side?

Ah! I have UniControl 4.10 (24 Apr 2014) sans the "a" suffix.
Whence cometh the new version?

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <59a5105d...@waitrose.com>,

Just found it on 't !Store for £79. As I already have a copy I presume
here is an update price or something. Perhaps I never registered my
original copy. I shall investigate as soon as time permits.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <59a510b4...@waitrose.com>,

Time having permitted, I see it's in my software and already have it in
my stored downloads so....

a) Have I applied the update?
b) Does the Info box on the icon bar reflect that?


Hmmm

--
Chris Newman

[Adrian Crafer]

In message <59a5105d...@waitrose.com>

Plingstore has it, but the upgrade process requires uninstalling the
existing version. I have a feeling that I upgraded, but it still showed as
4.10 sans "a". I may be wrong on that so I will check again.

If the problem you have is that Uniprint complains that the PC is not
connected or Uniserver is not running, but is, then I have found that the
cure is to run UniControl. Select Uniprint. It will then list the printers
on you PC. It will show the default printer is selected. If you then
reselect the default printer and click on 'Use' it should then all work
ok.

Adrian

--


acr...@orpheusmail.co.uk

[Paul Stewart]

In message <d8b406a5...@mytarbis.plus.com>

Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

> Problem with all-in-one inkjet printers for RISC OS is you will probably
> only get the printing side working directly.

In the past I have found that if the all in one device has a slot for a
memory card, the card itself was accessible from RISC OS, assuming printer
is connected via USB. You can then just scan to the memory card and then
pickup from RISC OS.

--
Paul Stewart
Sent from A9home running RISC OS 4.42

[Chris Hughes]

In message <59a5110d...@waitrose.com>

v4.10 is the main new version, if I remember correctly 4.10a fixed a bug
in the installer to allow it to work on newer version of RISC OS 5.

So doubt that is your issue, unless you forgot to update the UniPrint/exe
for the windows side.

--
Chris Hughes

[Richard Darby (news)]

In article <7ae827a4...@btopenworld.com>,
<stephe...@btinternet.com> wrote:

I downloaded the manual for this printer to see what form of emulation it
understood. According to the manual on p89 it supports PCL3 GUI. I'm not
sure what GUI means in this context as it usually means 'Graphical user
interface' however PCL is HP's 'Printer Control Language' so it should
respond to one of the 16 desk Jet definitions available.

About 15 years ago I needed a Printer definition for an HP DeskJet 920c
and found that Jonathan Briggs had produced a number of Definition files
for the 900 series printers and some others in around 2002. He was
initially charging a nominal amount for these but I think he left the RISC
OS scene around 2008 and made these printer definitions freely available.

Unfortunately I have not been able to find them on the web, so if anyone
knows where they can be obtained perhaps they could let us know.

As something you might try, I have a duplex PCL printer driver available
on my website www.rjdarby.co.uk/riscos
You might try installing this to see if it will work with your printer.
Although it has duplex capability it will also print on one side of the
paper and you don't need to use the duplex settings.

Richard Darby.

--

Richard Darby.
website: http://www.rjdarby.co.uk
Do not reply to this address all mail is deleted.
Reply to: <my first name> at <my domain>

[Doug Webb]

In message <59a527a...@rjdarby.co.uk>

"Richard Darby (news)" <ne...@rjdarby.co.uk> wrote:


> I downloaded the manual for this printer to see what form of emulation it
> understood. According to the manual on p89 it supports PCL3 GUI. I'm not
> sure what GUI means in this context as it usually means 'Graphical user
> interface' however PCL is HP's 'Printer Control Language' so it should
> respond to one of the 16 desk Jet definitions available.

Think this will be Windows only?

> About 15 years ago I needed a Printer definition for an HP DeskJet 920c
> and found that Jonathan Briggs had produced a number of Definition files
> for the 900 series printers and some others in around 2002. He was
> initially charging a nominal amount for these but I think he left the RISC
> OS scene around 2008 and made these printer definitions freely available.

> Unfortunately I have not been able to find them on the web, so if anyone
> knows where they can be obtained perhaps they could let us know.

Jonathan put all his printer drivers in to the "public domain" in around
2008.

I happen to have archives of them, which includes some Epson drivers as
well, and totals some 30+ plus drivers but I'm not sure if putting them
in to the "Public Domain" includes distributing them as all it says in the
archive is this:

"All my printer drivers are released into the public domain
'as is'. I can offer no further support for these drivers.
Jonathan Briggs
March 2008"

--
Experience the future using ARM Technology - ARMBook,BeagleBoard -xM,
PandaBoard,Raspberry Pi,iMX6/ARMX6,IGEPv5 & Titanium powered by RISC OS
5.28.

[Theo]

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Jonathan put all his printer drivers in to the "public domain" in around
> 2008.
>
> I happen to have archives of them, which includes some Epson drivers as
> well, and totals some 30+ plus drivers but I'm not sure if putting them
> in to the "Public Domain" includes distributing them as all it says in the
> archive is this:
>
> "All my printer drivers are released into the public domain
> 'as is'. I can offer no further support for these drivers.
> Jonathan Briggs
> March 2008"

Depends on his jurisdiction. In the US 'public domain' in law means
essentially a-free-for-all, do-what-you-like. The UK doesn't have that
definition in law, so it doesn't mean anything legally. But if Jonathan is
the person who holds the copyrights and it's clear he has relinquished any
claim on them (as the above text suggests), it would seem unlikely he's
going to sue anyone who distributes them.

In other words, his above statement is probably not sufficient for
million-dollar corporate lawyers but the intent seems clear enough if the
likely penalty for misinterpreting his statement is not being sued but being
told 'please don't do that again'.

So I would have no problem with distributing them, and indeed it sounds like
a good idea so they don't become lost.

Theo

[Doug Webb]

In message <603d05a5...@btopenworld.com>
stephe...@btinternet.com wrote:

> In message <59a5002d...@waitrose.com>

> I thought that at least one of the HP drivers might have worked even
> partially, seems to be the drivers are too old and printers too new.

> I can still use uniprint on ViruallAcorn but would love to get printing
> from the Raspberry, sort of hoped to use the Raspberry Pi instead but it
> doesn't look like that is going to happen sadly.

One way is to enable HP E Print on it and then print out to PDF using
Steve Fryatt's excellent PrintPDF or RComp's PDFMaker and then email that
PDF to the HP printers ePrint email address.

Bit convoluted but it works as I have used it a number of times.

Would be nice if someone could do an application a bit like Ian Hamilton's
PrintSpool that automatically sent it to the email address using your
preferred email client on RISC OS.

Also see my other post about Jonathan Brigg's drivers.

[Doug Webb]

In message <4b5231a559...@btinternet.com>

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:



> I happen to have archives of them, which includes some Epson drivers as
> well, and totals some 30+ plus drivers but I'm not sure if putting them
> in to the "Public Domain" includes distributing them as all it says in the
> archive is this:

OK so tried about 10 or so of the HP drivers against a HP Deskjet 3637,
which is PCL3 GUI, and get nothing.

Jonathan's drivers were really good with enhanced printer icon graphics
and also reset/head alignment etc facilities.

It is a pity that we have no modern updates.

Some of the higher priced HP inkjets all in ones going back 3 or 4 years
ago, like the HP 5520/B110, had the ability to use PCL6/Postscript like
the Laserjets but they seem to have dropped that from their range and even
some laserjets they sell have dropped it.

I guess it comes back to costs.

[Richard Ashbery]

In article <59a5110d...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman

I'm wondering about that - I have just upgraded from 4.10 to 4.10a but
there doesn't seem to be a way of checking that the upgrade has been
done.

The UniPrint/exe (server software) on Windows is the same as on 4.10
so it makes sense that when it's window is opened it reports 4.10.

Richard

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <1fe613a...@outlook.com>

Paul Stewart <narrowb...@outlook.com> wrote:

>In message <d8b406a5...@mytarbis.plus.com>
> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Problem with all-in-one inkjet printers for RISC OS is you will probably
>> only get the printing side working directly.
>
>In the past I have found that if the all in one device has a slot for a
>memory card, the card itself was accessible from RISC OS, assuming printer
>is connected via USB. You can then just scan to the memory card and then
>pickup from RISC OS.
>

There isn't a slot on mine though.


--

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <59a527a...@rjdarby.co.uk>
"Richard Darby (news)" <ne...@rjdarby.co.uk> wrote:

Thank for this info, I'll have a go at printing with these PDF's.


--

[stephe...@btinternet.com]

In message <d8b406a5...@mytarbis.plus.com>
Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:

I think Andrew from Rcomp is back from his Christmas holidays on Monday
so I'll ask him if he is aware of a solution for me on my setup.
I was hoping to use the Raspberry Pi to print from but looks like I'll
have to stick with VirtualAcorn on the lapop for main printing, I've no
idea how to get Uniprint to work from the Pi perhaps Andrew can help
with that but I didn't purchase the Pi from him so he might be reluctant
to help.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 3 Jan, "Richard Darby (news)" wrote in message
<59a527a...@rjdarby.co.uk>:

> About 15 years ago I needed a Printer definition for an HP DeskJet 920c
> and found that Jonathan Briggs had produced a number of Definition files
> for the 900 series printers and some others in around 2002. He was
> initially charging a nominal amount for these but I think he left the RISC
> OS scene around 2008 and made these printer definitions freely available.
>
> Unfortunately I have not been able to find them on the web, so if anyone
> knows where they can be obtained perhaps they could let us know.

The last link that I have for them is http://www.riscos-connect.org, which
is well and truly dead. They were announced on csa.announce in Mar 2008 as
being freely available to download.

The Wayback Machine gets to the page where they were listed for download,
but it doesn't seem to have archived the actual Zip files. So I suspect
that, unless they were included in another collection, they're lost forever.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

[Doug Webb]

In message <mpro.r5eabp02...@stevefryatt.org.uk>

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 3 Jan, "Richard Darby (news)" wrote in message
> <59a527a...@rjdarby.co.uk>:

>> About 15 years ago I needed a Printer definition for an HP DeskJet 920c
>> and found that Jonathan Briggs had produced a number of Definition files
>> for the 900 series printers and some others in around 2002.

[snip]

> So I suspect
> that, unless they were included in another collection, they're lost forever.

Hi Steve,

You may not of seen that I do have a download of Jonathan's collection
drivers and Theo has indicated that as it is stated that Jonathan has
released them in to the public domain then we may be able to resurrect
availability but I am still nervous of making them available.

I have also said that he could install your excellent PrintPDF program and
make a PDf file of any document /photo and then email that file to the
Printers HP ePrint email address if it supports HP Web services/ePrint
etc.

I have tested this on a HP3637 all in one inkjet and also a HP 254DW laser
printer and both work.

It will also work with Jpeg's and Word documents as well.

Taking another angle that may help Stephen then I have tested out Rick
Murray's excellent SammyPrint inconjunction with David Pillings SPrinter
and got a result for the HP3637 inkjet which is IPP capable.

I think the HP Envy 4500 may also be IPP cable but Stephen will have to
confirm that if so he could:

Download SammyPrint from Rick Murray's HeyRick site and install it in
!Boot.Library

He should then download David Pillings SPrinter and install that as per
the instructions.

He can then print the document to the SPrinter and save the resultant jpeg
and then he can send it directly to the printer using something similar to
the commands below:

Start a task window:
*SammyPrint -colour -file "File location i.e "RAM::RamDisc0.$.myjepg/jpg"
NB the location needs to be enclosed in speech marks" -ip <printers Ip
address> -verbose

So whilst a bit more circumvent that just printing there are options.

RComp's Hermes also does DirectMail and it would be nice if there was a
application that looked at a predetermined directory and was able to use
DirectMail then to sedn the email to a HP ePrint or indeed any ePrint
device.

I hope this gives Stephen some options to be able to print out using only
RISC OS to his HP 4500 printer.

Doug

[Doug Webb]

In message <eb48cda759...@btinternet.com>
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:


[snip]

>

> He should then download David Pillings SPrinter and install that as per
> the instructions.

> He can then print the document to the SPrinter and save the resultant jpeg

Sorry forgot to say SPrinter produces a Sprite and you drop that Sprite on
to ChangeFSI , which is set up to convert to JPEG, and save that resultant
jpeg.

I have tried this printing out a document using Ovation.

> and then he can send it directly to the printer using something similar to
> the commands below:

> Start a task window:
> *SammyPrint -colour -file "File location i.e "RAM::RamDisc0.$.myjepg/jpg"
> NB the location needs to be enclosed in speech marks" -ip <printers Ip
> address> -verbose

If you start Edit and Create an Obey file then you could semi automate the
process.

i.e type the following in Edit:

*ChangeFSI RAM::RamDisc0.$.Sprite RAM::RamDisc0.Jpeg/jpg JPEG 100
*SammyPrint -colour -file "Ram::RamDisc0.$.Jpeg/jpg" -ip "xxx.xxx.x.xxx
where this is the printers Ip address" -verbose

Save the file as say "SammyPrint" to your harddisc and pin it to your
Pinboard.

You now have a means to automate the sending of a file to the printer and
this is a one off step.

Make sure ChangeFSI has been seen by the filer.

To print you make sure you have select sprinter in !Printers and then
print out from your application, in my case Ovation.

Save the Sprite file to RAMDisc.

Double click on the Obey File or it's Pinboard shortcut and then press
space when finished.

I am sure other will make better suggestions but it is merely an example
of what to do.

For the record the best output I have got is by using PrintPDF and saving
the resultant PDF and then emailing it to the printers email address as
previoulsy highlighted.

Hope that this helps.

[Steve Fryatt]

On 8 Jan, stephe...@btinternet.com wrote in message
<0ea896a7...@btopenworld.com>:

[Please snip your quoted text appropriately!]

> I think Andrew from Rcomp is back from his Christmas holidays on Monday so
> I'll ask him if he is aware of a solution for me on my setup. I was hoping
> to use the Raspberry Pi to print from but looks like I'll have to stick
> with VirtualAcorn on the lapop for main printing,

Why? As others have said, UniPrint will work fine on modern RISC OS 5
systems, so long as you have a current version of it.

> I've no idea how to get Uniprint to work from the Pi perhaps Andrew can
> help with that but I didn't purchase the Pi from him so he might be
> reluctant to help.

It would be a little disturbing if a software supplier were to base support
for their software on the source of the hardware that you were using.

[Harriet Bazley]

On 9 Jan 2022 as I do recall,

Doug Webb wrote:

> In message <eb48cda759...@btinternet.com>
> Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> > He can then print the document to the SPrinter and save the resultant jpeg
>
> Sorry forgot to say SPrinter produces a Sprite and you drop that Sprite on
> to ChangeFSI , which is set up to convert to JPEG, and save that resultant
> jpeg.
>

Surely printing a document as a JPEG would result in pixelation and
inevitable loss of quality? (Like those text adverts you see in
magazines which have clearly been produced from a very lossy image
indeed.)


--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

Anything can happen in the next half-hour....

[Steve Fryatt]

On 9 Jan, Harriet Bazley wrote in message
<62e10ca85...@bazleyfamily.co.uk>:

> Surely printing a document as a JPEG would result in pixelation and
> inevitable loss of quality? (Like those text adverts you see in
> magazines which have clearly been produced from a very lossy image
> indeed.)

Only if you print to a lower resolution than the printer can handle. I
routinely use JPEGs, at 300dpi to match the final process, as a base source
for professional printing -- with no visible quality issues.

Using a lossless format might be nice, but ArtWorks doesn't handle that idea
well: there's a limitation to the size of sprites, which quickly bites at
300dpi, and it doesn't import other formats.

[Chris Newman]

In article <mpro.r5fub100...@stevefryatt.org.uk>, Steve Fryatt

<ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 8 Jan, stephe...@btinternet.com wrote in message
> <0ea896a7...@btopenworld.com>:

> [Please snip your quoted text appropriately!]

> > I think Andrew from Rcomp is back from his Christmas holidays on
> > Monday so I'll ask him if he is aware of a solution for me on my
> > setup. I was hoping to use the Raspberry Pi to print from but looks
> > like I'll have to stick with VirtualAcorn on the lapop for main
> > printing,

> Why? As others have said, UniPrint will work fine on modern RISC OS 5
> systems, so long as you have a current version of it.

Tat is not entirely true. There are several people who have reported on
various RISCOS fora that they cannot get UniPrint to work on W10 (Me
being one of them) and there seems to be no logic to whether it works for
you or not.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Hughes]

In message <59a83250...@waitrose.com>

I repeat it has always worked for me on RISC OS 5 and Win10.
If I can help resolve your issue I will be happy to assist.

--
Chris Hughes

[Steve Fryatt]

On 9 Jan, Chris Newman wrote in message
<59a83250...@waitrose.com>:

> Tat is not entirely true. There are several people who have reported on
> various RISCOS fora that they cannot get UniPrint to work on W10 (Me being
> one of them) and there seems to be no logic to whether it works for you or
> not.

But that's not a RISC OS 5 problem, though. The OP was concerned that
UniPrint would stop working on the Pi, not that it would stop working with
Win 10.

If UniPrint works with the OP's Windows set-up, I'm not aware of any reason
why it would be any different on that same setup with a RISC OS 5 box
compared to a RISC OS 3, 4 or Six box?

[Dave]

In article <mpro.r5gs7p05...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Mmnn.. The problem I found in the past and still do with Uniprint is the
unreliability of service.

Yesterday RPCemu and RISC OS 5.28, no problem printing over the LAN to the
Epson Expression XP-760.

Today not one print will pass from RISC OS to the Epson.
I've not changed anything...

LAN is active.
IP scanner shows it is the correct address for the printer
UniPrint driver is active... As it was yesterday.
The Epson Printer can be pinged.
The Epson is selected in the UniPrint Hosts config window.
Win side, The Epson is selected in the UniServer.exe Properties, Printer
tab.

RISC OS will not print to it.

Same with the RPCEmu RISC OS 6.20 install.
Uniserver will not Print to the Epson.

Go Windows side and send a document to the Epson over the LAN and it, as
per usual prints okay.

Rebooting either the RISC OS installs or even the Win computer doesn't
sort the problem.

This unreliability causes one to say (Some expletive) and just forget
about UniPrint as a printing tool and just take everything Win side for
printing.

Dave

UniLaunch has the same bad manners, one day it'll work perfectly okay,
another day it moans and fails all the time.

D.

--

Dave Triffid

[charles]

In article <59a8819...@triffid.co.uk>,

Has UniPrint/UniControl got the correct address for the Windows machine?
If you turn the Windows machine off at night, it might not be allocated the
same address as before. That has certainly happened to me.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Alan Dawes]

In article <59a88851...@candehope.me.uk>,

SNAP! Years ago I had the same problem which was solved by configuring the
router to give fixed addresses to all our computers.

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6

[Dave]

In article <59a88851...@candehope.me.uk>,
charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> In article <59a8819...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

[Snip]

> > UniLaunch has the same bad manners, one day it'll work perfectly okay,
> > another day it moans and fails all the time.

> > D.

> Has UniPrint/UniControl got the correct address for the Windows machine?
> If you turn the Windows machine off at night, it might not be allocated
> the same address as before. That has certainly happened to me.

All the computers in this house are connected to the LAN and all have
reserved/fixed addresses in the router.

While today Uniprint won't connect, there's no problem with UniLaunch
sending things Windows side.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[charles]

In article <59a8949...@triffid.co.uk>,

That happened to me in October - but it had cured itself by December.

A workround: Print to pdf on RISC OS, and view the pdf on Windows - then
print. (but, you've probably worked that out for yourself)

[Chris Newman]

In article <59a8a27b...@candehope.me.uk>, charles

<cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <59a8949...@triffid.co.uk>, Dave <da...@triffid.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > In article <59a88851...@candehope.me.uk>, charles
> > <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <59a8819...@triffid.co.uk>, Dave
> > > <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > [Snip]

> > > > UniLaunch has the same bad manners, one day it'll work perfectly
> > > > okay, another day it moans and fails all the time.

> > > > D.

> > > Has UniPrint/UniControl got the correct address for the Windows
> > > machine? If you turn the Windows machine off at night, it might not
> > > be allocated the same address as before. That has certainly
> > > happened to me.

> > All the computers in this house are connected to the LAN and all have
> > reserved/fixed addresses in the router.

> > While today Uniprint won't connect, there's no problem with UniLaunch
> > sending things Windows side.

> That happened to me in October - but it had cured itself by December.

To be fair, Microsoft has many, many software engineers who can keep
changing (messing up) Windows ad infinitum while we have one (Alan
Wrigley, I think) to try and play catch up.

--
Chris Newman

[charles]

In article <59a8a8d1...@waitrose.com>,

My feelings entirely

[Chris Hughes]

In message <59a8949...@triffid.co.uk>

Dave <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <59a88851...@candehope.me.uk>,
> charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>> In article <59a8819...@triffid.co.uk>,
>> Dave <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> [Snip]

>>> UniLaunch has the same bad manners, one day it'll work perfectly okay,
>>> another day it moans and fails all the time.

>>> D.

>> Has UniPrint/UniControl got the correct address for the Windows machine?
>> If you turn the Windows machine off at night, it might not be allocated
>> the same address as before. That has certainly happened to me.

> All the computers in this house are connected to the LAN and all have
> reserved/fixed addresses in the router.

yes if your PC or RISC OS machine changed IP address you could have
issues.

> While today Uniprint won't connect, there's no problem with UniLaunch
> sending things Windows side.

Do check your Windows Firewall or Internet security suite firewall is
actually configure to let Uniprint through.

Oh do remember that Microsoft have been spending the last few months
trying to fix the windows printing system patches they messed up, don't
think its fully fixed yet! IIRC if it printed to the printer using
Postscript it was fine but using say a PCL driver, it was not always
working. I think that put of issue now fixed.

The printing subsystem on Windows is a mess and has been for quite a few
years.


--
Chris Hughes

[Dave]

In article <ab29b2a8...@mytarbis.plus.com>,
Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]

> Do check your Windows Firewall or Internet security suite firewall is
> actually configure to let Uniprint through.

> Oh do remember that Microsoft have been spending the last few months
> trying to fix the windows printing system patches they messed up, don't
> think its fully fixed yet! IIRC if it printed to the printer using
> Postscript it was fine but using say a PCL driver, it was not always
> working. I think that put of issue now fixed.

> The printing subsystem on Windows is a mess and has been for quite a few
> years.

Yesterday it worked okay, so obviously the firewall was allowing it.

Early today, and later in the morning when I tried again it did not work...

This evening I've just printed out of RISC OS 5.28 through Uniprint to the
Epson okay. (Exactly the same file I was using earlier).

And Unilaunch is also working.

I have not changed anything.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[Theo]

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> It is a pity that we have no modern updates.
>
> Some of the higher priced HP inkjets all in ones going back 3 or 4 years
> ago, like the HP 5520/B110, had the ability to use PCL6/Postscript like
> the Laserjets but they seem to have dropped that from their range and even
> some laserjets they sell have dropped it.
>
> I guess it comes back to costs.

I think a modern approach would be to implement something like Apple
AirPrint. Because printing from an iPhone or iPad is such a big thing, a
lot of modern printers support it. Since the printer just accepts a bitmap
('Apple Raster' or 'PWG raster' formats) there's no need for drivers,
although printers can optionally support PDF or Postscript in the usual way.
It also does plug and play detection using multicast DNS aka Bonjour
(which also meshes nicely with the lack of drivers) - when printing you just
select which printer from a list of what's on your network, and printing
starts - nothing to configure or install.

It won't help with legacy Winprinters like the Dell in the other thread, but
many printers from the last 10 years should support it.

Theo

[Doug Webb]

In message <ABe*xI...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:


> I think a modern approach would be to implement something like Apple
> AirPrint. Because printing from an iPhone or iPad is such a big thing, a
> lot of modern printers support it. Since the printer just accepts a bitmap
> ('Apple Raster' or 'PWG raster' formats) there's no need for drivers,
> although printers can optionally support PDF or Postscript in the usual way.

Agree and thats why Rick Murray's SammyPrint and the work that Dave Higton
is doing on IPP plus the work on Ghostscript/IPPTool/MuTool etc that Chris
Gransden amongst others is doing really is the way to go and makes sure
most printers will then be available again.

There really does seem to be a lot of things coming forward to make using
RISC OS even easier to use.

[Alan Dawes]

In article <59a8bc0...@triffid.co.uk>,

Is your antivirus software set to automatically update itself? Some years
ago I stupidly installed a free trial of Mcafee on my PC which coincided
with intermittant problems connecting to my RiscPC. Removing Mcafee (it
was difficult to remove it completely!) solved the problem - I concluded
that there were bugs in the regular virus updates which were then
corrected with the next one! I've not had the same problem with AVG.

[David Higton]

In message <42c615a959...@btinternet.com>

Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> In message <ABe*xI...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > I think a modern approach would be to implement something like Apple
> > AirPrint. Because printing from an iPhone or iPad is such a big thing, a
> > lot of modern printers support it. Since the printer just accepts a
> > bitmap ('Apple Raster' or 'PWG raster' formats) there's no need for
> > drivers, although printers can optionally support PDF or Postscript in
> > the usual way.

Can you confirm that AirPrint does indeed use UniRaster; print to file
would have "UNIRAST\0" inthe first 8 bytes?

> Agree and thats why Rick Murray's SammyPrint and the work that Dave Higton
> is doing on IPP plus the work on Ghostscript/IPPTool/MuTool etc that Chris
> Gransden amongst others is doing really is the way to go and makes sure
> most printers will then be available again.

I've just rendered a sprite from a Uniraster file too.

> There really does seem to be a lot of things coming forward to make using
> RISC OS even easier to use.

Let's hope :-)

David

[druck]

On 11/01/2022 11:20, Alan Dawes wrote:
> Is your antivirus software set to automatically update itself? Some years
> ago I stupidly installed a free trial of Mcafee on my PC which coincided
> with intermittant problems connecting to my RiscPC. Removing Mcafee (it
> was difficult to remove it completely!) solved the problem - I concluded
> that there were bugs in the regular virus updates which were then
> corrected with the next one! I've not had the same problem with AVG.

Just a word of caution, AVG which was bought by Avast which was bought
by Norton, who along with another of their purchases Avira have recently
introduced cypto mining software into their anti-virus products, and
Avast & AVG will probably be next.

Yes, I would not believe it if I read that here either, but apparently
this insanity is real.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/10/avira_ethereum/?td=keepreading-top

---druck

[Theo]

David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> Can you confirm that AirPrint does indeed use UniRaster; print to file
> would have "UNIRAST\0" inthe first 8 bytes?

I'm not sure how I find out - my iPhone won't print to file, only to
something that advertises itself as a printer (the only thing I have being
an actual printer). On MacOS there's CUPS in the way - you can print to
PDF, which is presumably the input format to CUPS, but I'm not sure how to
print to file of the output destined for a specific printer. The spool file
(/var/spool/cups/dNNNNNN-NNN) is a PDF.

Have you tried sending a Unirast file to an Airprint printer?

Theo

[Theo]

Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Have you tried sending a Unirast file to an Airprint printer?

Ah, according to:
https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSAirPrint
I can get some information out of my printer:
('xxxx' redacts some serial numbers)

$ avahi-browse -rt _ipp._tcp
+ wlp0s20f3 IPv6 Brother HL-L8260CDW series Internet
Printer local
+ wlp0s20f3 IPv4 Brother HL-L8260CDW series Internet
Printer local
= wlp0s20f3 IPv6 Brother HL-L8260CDW series Internet
Printer local
hostname = [BRWD46A6Axxxx.local]
address = [192.168.1.3]
port = [631]
txt = ["mopria-certified=1.3" "print_wfds=T"
"UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-xxxx" "PaperMax=legal-A4"
"kind=document,envelope,label,postcard"
"URF=SRGB24,W8,CP1,IS19-1,MT1-3-4-5-8-11,OB10,PQ4,RS600,V1.4,DM1"
"TBCP=F" "Transparent=T" "Binary=T" "PaperCustom=T" "Scan=F" "Fax=F"
"Duplex=T" "Copies=T" "Color=T" "usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF"
"usb_MDL=HL-L8260CDW series" "usb_MFG=Brother" "priority=25"
"adminurl=http://BRWD46A6xxxx.local./net/net/airprint.html"
"product=(Brother HL-L8260CDW series)" "ty=Brother HL-L8260CDW series"
"note=" "rp=ipp/print"
"pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf,image/jpeg,image/pwg-raster"
"qtotal=1" "txtvers=1"]
= wlp0s20f3 IPv4 Brother HL-L8260CDW series Internet
Printer local
hostname = [BRWD46A6Axxxx.local]
address = [192.168.1.3]
port = [631]
txt = ["mopria-certified=1.3" "print_wfds=T"
"UUID=e3248000-80ce-11db-8000-xxxx" "PaperMax=legal-A4"
"kind=document,envelope,label,postcard"
"URF=SRGB24,W8,CP1,IS19-1,MT1-3-4-5-8-11,OB10,PQ4,RS600,V1.4,DM1"
"TBCP=F" "Transparent=T" "Binary=T" "PaperCustom=T" "Scan=F" "Fax=F"
"Duplex=T" "Copies=T" "Color=T" "usb_CMD=PJL,PCL,PCLXL,URF"
"usb_MDL=HL-L8260CDW series" "usb_MFG=Brother" "priority=25"
"adminurl=http://BRWD46A6Axxxx.local./net/net/airprint.html"
"product=(Brother HL-L8260CDW series)" "ty=Brother HL-L8260CDW series"
"note=" "rp=ipp/print"
"pdl=application/octet-stream,image/urf,image/jpeg,image/pwg-raster"
"qtotal=1" "txtvers=1"]


so it can take URF, as well as JPEG and PWG. Perhaps, if the client
discovers that, it can choose to send via any supported format.
I would assume that iOS would send URF as the lowest common denominator?

[time passes]

It appears that I can run Wireshark on my wifi, but it can only see
traffic destined for the machine running Wireshark - it can't see the chat
between my phone and the printer. To do that I'd need to put both the phone
and printer on an open wifi network that I can sniff. That will be a task
for another day...

Theo

[Theo]

Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> It appears that I can run Wireshark on my wifi, but it can only see
> traffic destined for the machine running Wireshark - it can't see the chat
> between my phone and the printer. To do that I'd need to put both the phone
> and printer on an open wifi network that I can sniff. That will be a task
> for another day...

Somebody already did this:
https://weberblog.net/a-little-printing-please-packet-capture/

According to the pcap (in Wireshark filter on 'ipp'):

MDNS says:
HP LaserJet 200 colorMFP M276n (025A4D)_ipp_tcplocal) ;

IPP says:
POST /ipp/print HTTP/1.1
Content-Length: 823
Content-Type: application/ipp
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:36:43 GMT
Host: NPI025A4D.local:631
User-Agent: CUPS/2.3.0 (iOS 13.6.1; iPhone10,4) IPP/2.0
Expect: 100-continue

(a lot of IPP chitchat about media sizes etc)

document-format-supported:
image/urf
application/pdf
application/postscript
application/vnd.hp-PCL
application/vnd.hp-PCLXL
application/PCLm
application/octet-stream

and a PDF is sent.

So it appears iOS won't necessarily send PWG or URF if there's another
option.

Theo

[David Higton]

In message <zBe*tt...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

I don't have access to an Airprint printer.

David

[David Higton]

In message <BBe*QX...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

I may have missed it, but I didn't see what type of file he printed.
If it was a PDF, I would expect the computer's printing system to take
the line of least resistance and ship it out direct because the printer
can handle it directly.

The above list of formats: is it complete? Didn't it include PWG-Raster?
HP seems to be its biggest supporter.

I have some reverse engineered documentation of Unirast, and it seems
reasonable to guess that "image/urf" is Unirast. What I don't know
for sure is whether the information I have is up to date. We all know
how much protocols are subject to change in the IT industry.

David

[Theo]

David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> I may have missed it, but I didn't see what type of file he printed.
> If it was a PDF, I would expect the computer's printing system to take
> the line of least resistance and ship it out direct because the printer
> can handle it directly.

It was a PDF (it can be extracted from the pcap - a printout of
http://ip.webernetz.net/
which dumps the User-Agent etc of the browser request)

> The above list of formats: is it complete? Didn't it include PWG-Raster?
> HP seems to be its biggest supporter.

That's it, as returned from IPP Get-Printer-Attributes. No PWG.
There's no mention of PWG in the spec either:
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-pro-200-color-mfp-m276/5097648/model/5097649/document/c03315988
(it does say 'Apple Airprint')

> I have some reverse engineered documentation of Unirast, and it seems
> reasonable to guess that "image/urf" is Unirast. What I don't know
> for sure is whether the information I have is up to date. We all know
> how much protocols are subject to change in the IT industry.

I did this:

$ git clone https://github.com/AlanQuatermain/unirast.git
Cloning into 'unirast'...
remote: Enumerating objects: 14, done.
remote: Total 14 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 14
Receiving objects: 100% (14/14), 1.65 MiB | 2.40 MiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (6/6), done.
$ cd unirast/
$ ls
17-pages.urf 1-page.urf partial_decode.txt
$ cat 1-page.urf | nc 192.168.1.3 9100

and I got a pile of paper starting with 'UNIRAST' and then garbage
characters. Looks like the printer decided it was a text file, rather than
a file to parse. Although I don't know if you have to indicate a MIME type
when using AppSocket/JetDirect, else it'll assume it's plain text or PCL/PS?

Theo

[Theo]

David Higton <da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> I don't have access to an Airprint printer.

If there's anything you want me to try, feel free to send me files.

Although it seems that the only examples I can find of Unirast don't work.
I found this:
https://github.com/Bondvet/imageurf
but I'm not very experienced with Node and not sure what kind of closure I
need to supply to it to make it save a URF for inspection - at the
moment it goes PNG -> URF -> PNG which isn't much use.

Theo

[druck]

On 12/01/2022 22:46, Theo wrote:
> It appears that I can run Wireshark on my wifi, but it can only see
> traffic destined for the machine running Wireshark - it can't see the chat
> between my phone and the printer. To do that I'd need to put both the phone
> and printer on an open wifi network that I can sniff. That will be a task
> for another day...

You need to put your WiFi card in promiscuous mode.

---druck

[Theo]

It doesn't work like that. If you have WPA enabled, stations can't see the
traffic of other stations because it's encrypted. That's why people in
Starbucks can't intercept the traffic of other people in Starbucks.

You can put your wifi card in monitor mode, which gives you access to raw
802.11 packets (station broadcasts etc). But it still doesn't allow you to
see the traffic of other users talking to the access point.

Theo