Easiest way to clone a 3B1?
h...@flex.com
I rescued some 3B1's and had to piece one system together from two dead
systems - bad motherboard on one and small disk on the other.
I have one 67 MB system running and the second system needed the hard
disk re-formatted due to too many read errors to recover.
Any ideas on a way to clone the hard drive instead of re-installing the
system from floppies on system #2?
I do have the floppy tape drives and floppy drives, but was curious
about a faster way to set it up.
Thanks,
Keith
=======
DoN. Nichols
> All,
> I rescued some 3B1's and had to piece one system together from two dead
> systems - bad motherboard on one and small disk on the other.
> I have one 67 MB system running and the second system needed the hard
> disk re-formatted due to too many read errors to recover.
>
> Any ideas on a way to clone the hard drive instead of re-installing the
> system from floppies on system #2?
drives (one external)?
If so are both drives the same size and brand?
Then -- you *could* run DD between the two raw drives (after a
low-level format of the target drive). *But* this would mean that the
target drive would get sectors marked as bad which are bad on the first
drive -- and would attempt to use sectors which are really bad on the
second drive.
You might be able to use DD on a partition by partition basis,
letting the OS handle the bad sectors.
Or better -- use tar or cpio for both. Let's see, IIRC the way
to do it with cpio would be:
======================================================================
mkdir /mnt
mount <whatever-the-name-of-the-second-disk-is> /mnt
cd /
find / -print | grep -v /mnt | cpio -pdv /mnt
sync
sync
sync
umount /mnt
======================================================================
but I think that this would be missing the bootblock
installation, so you would have to handle that separately.
If you have a network interface and the drivers for your 3B1,
you could write the cpio image to another system -- perhaps burn it on a
CD-ROM -- and use that to install everything on the second drive after
booting from the advanced diagnostic floppy and installing the
bootblock.
The writing to a second system would be something like this:
======================================================================
cd /
find . -print | cpio -ocdv | rcp other-system:/buffer/3b1-image.cpio
======================================================================
> I do have the floppy tape drives and floppy drives, but was curious
> about a faster way to set it up.
like a floppy disk, which means that it backs up and re-reads each
sector after writing it before going forward and writing the next
sector. I almost think that the floppy disks might be faster, if you
had an automated disk changer. :-)
Beware of backups made using the system backup utilities. They
are designed to be recovered on top of a fresh install, and as a result,
they are designed to skip all files older than a particular file which
is created during the previous install process. This means that if you
have some files which were installed from an older tar file (which
preserves the last modification time), those won't be backed up. An
example of this which I remember biting me a few times was the
replacement mkdir which I compiled which included the "-p" option (make
missing intermediate subdirectories needed to make the one specified.)
And if you try to modify the backup scripts to back up
*everything* -- when you try to restore from that, you will overwrite
something needed for the restore process. :-)
Oh yes -- and beware when running tar for restores. By default,
it trys to change the ownership of directories as it creates them, and
the permissions -- and if you are not running it as root, it will fail
somewhere along the game.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
h...@flex.com
>> system from floppies on system #2?
>
> Have you modified the board on either system to allow two hard
> drives (one external)?
>
> If so are both drives the same size and brand?
>
> you could write the cpio image to another system -- perhaps burn it on a
> CD-ROM -- and use that to install everything on the second drive after
> booting from the advanced diagnostic floppy and installing the
> bootblock.
>>
> DoN.
>
Don,
I haven't modified the board as I just got these systems a few days ago.
Is there a source for the PAL for modifying the system?
It looks like I will need to get afio loaded if I can't clone my good
system as the two versions of the development set have read errors ( on
different disks). Is there a command line approach to reading the
installation sets into a temp directory and then running the install
from there.
Of course, that means kermit (I presume) to transfer files or possibly
mtools if I install a 5 1/4 floppy drive on a windows system - or a 3
1/2 floppy in the 3B1.
Ideas and pointers are welcome.
Thanks,
Keith
==========
DoN. Nichols
>>> Any ideas on a way to clone the hard drive instead of re-installing the
>>> system from floppies on system #2?
>>
>> Have you modified the board on either system to allow two hard
>> drives (one external)?
>>
>> If so are both drives the same size and brand?
>>
>> If you have a network interface and the drivers for your 3B1,
>> you could write the cpio image to another system -- perhaps burn it on a
>> CD-ROM -- and use that to install everything on the second drive after
>> booting from the advanced diagnostic floppy and installing the
>> bootblock.
> Don,
> I haven't modified the board as I just got these systems a few days ago.
> Is there a source for the PAL for modifying the system?
I don't think so. However, it can be done without a PAL. The
disadvantage is that it needs a little tricky detective work to
determine where to install the extra chips. The original guide which I
got had you make a small daughterboard and find a place to put it -- but
I found space on the system board to do it all. It involved cutting
free grounded input lines for the data drivers on the board (there were
multiple ballanced line drivers and receivers in two single chips, and
there were more sections than were needed in the original system, so
there were spares.
When I modified mine, among other things, I set it up so both
drives were external to the 3B1's chassis, to reduce the load on the
power supply (since the full height hard disk in the 3B1 is particularly
hard on the power supply).
There are two cables from the 3B1 to the external box, one is a
shared cable to both drives (34 pin IIRC), and the other is a separate
20 pin to each drive. Except that I did a little figuring and managed
to get both cables into a single 20-pin ribbon cable. (IIRC, only 10
pins are actually used, and they focus on one side of the cable, so
flipping it over lets you talk to a second drive with the other half of
the cable. (Note that I am going on memory at the moment.)
> It looks like I will need to get afio loaded if I can't clone my good
> system as the two versions of the development set have read errors ( on
> different disks).
Keep reading to the end -- as I have some suggestions about the
read errors.
Note this from the Sun Solaris 10 man page for afio:
======================================================================
Except in special cases discussed below, afio will create
archives with the same format as ASCII cpio(1) archives.
Therefore cpio(1) can usually be used to restore an afio
archive in the case that afio is not available on a system.
(With most cpio versions, to unpack an ASCII format archive,
use cpio -c, and for GNU cpio(1) use cpio -H odc.) When
unpacking with cpio, any compressed files inside an afio -Z
archive are not uncompressed by cpio, but will be created on
the file system as compressed files with a .z extension.
======================================================================
so you may not need afio, since the system comes with cpio -- and
depends on it for installs.
> Is there a command line approach to reading the
> installation sets into a temp directory and then running the install
> from there.
If you have enough /tmp space, you should be able to use dd (on
the 3B1, which understands the weird format the floppy and hard disk
have) to copy each disk to /tmp with consecutive file names, then
concatenate them, and extract and install from that.
"Size" says 5750 (blocks, I presume, not K).
Her is a cpio -itcv of a cpio of the whole development set, to
show you what should be in it:
======================================================================
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5 Apr 20 19:56 1987, Size
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5957 Apr 20 19:54 1987, Files
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 539 Apr 20 19:54 1987, Install
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 21 Apr 20 19:54 1987, Name
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 6103 Apr 20 19:54 1987, Remove
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-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 10372 Jan 1 13:10 1970, lib/shlib.ifile
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-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 348 Jan 1 13:10 1970, lib/libg.a
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-rw-r--r-- 4 bin bin 57474 Jan 1 13:10 1970, lib/libm.a
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drwxrwxr-x 2 bin bin 0 Apr 20 19:21 1987, lib/libp
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-rw-r--r-- 4 doloresn _ldapd 387 Jan 1 13:10 1970, u/install/.kshrc
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drwxr-xr-x 2 root other 0 Apr 20 19:24 1987, usr/include/sys
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-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 992 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/stat.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 922 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/stermio.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 1066 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/sysinfo.h
-r--r--r-- 2 bin bin 1444 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/syslocal.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 2069 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/sysmacros.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 2400 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/system.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 358 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/target.h
-r--r--r-- 2 bin bin 4713 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/termio.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 1319 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/text.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 380 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/times.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 951 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/trap.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 704 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/ttold.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 3883 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/tty.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 617 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/tune.h
-r--r--r-- 2 bin bin 654 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/types.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 5797 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/user.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 495 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/utsname.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 446 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vadvise.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 591 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/var.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 600 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vlimit.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 304 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vm.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 3831 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vmmac.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 124 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vmmeter.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 2563 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vmparam.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 1117 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vmsystm.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 951 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/vtimes.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 2329 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/wait.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 4527 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/wd.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 4901 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/sys/window.h
-r--r--r-- 2 bin bin 61 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/syslocal.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 1519 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/tam.h
-r--r--r-- 2 bin bin 111 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/termio.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 406 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/time.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 226 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/tp_defs.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 884 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/track.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 956 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/unistd.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 258 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/ustat.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 1477 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/utmp.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 3442 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/values.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 410 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/varargs.h
-r--r--r-- 3 bin bin 300 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/include/wind.h
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 5957 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/install/DEV/Files
-rwxr-xr-x 4 bin bin 539 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/install/DEV/Install
-rw-r--r-- 4 bin bin 21 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/install/DEV/Name
-rwxr-xr-x 4 bin bin 6103 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/install/DEV/Remove
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 3244 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/dag
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 4304 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/diff3prog
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 2088 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/flip
drwxr-xr-x 2 bin bin 0 Apr 20 19:22 1987, usr/lib/help
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 4169 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/ad
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 1264 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/bd
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 673 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/cb
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 2196 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/cm
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 5362 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/cmds
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 4160 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/co
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 3358 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/de
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 180 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/default
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 2055 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/ge
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 334 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/he
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 508 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/prs
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 2286 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/rc
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 650 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/un
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 2331 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/ut
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 2442 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/help/vc
drwxrwxr-x 2 bin bin 0 Apr 20 19:23 1987, usr/lib/lex
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 3997 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lex/ncform
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 3130 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lex/nrform
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 13896 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lib300.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 13538 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lib300s.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 12476 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lib4014.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 13948 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lib450.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 39758 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libcurses.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 6390 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libdev.a
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 348 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libg.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 3958 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libl.a
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 17300 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libld.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 8326 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libmalloc.a
-rw-r--r-- 7 bin bin 13890 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libmath.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 9074 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libplot.a
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 127248 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libtam.a
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 5002 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libtermcap.a
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 5002 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libtermlib.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 9630 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/libvt0.a
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 964 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/liby.a
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 69540 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lint1
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 13264 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lint2
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 14642 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-lc
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 13560 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-lc.ln
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 6821 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-port
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 6716 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-port.ln
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 1482 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-lm
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 1502 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/llib-lm.ln
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 3484 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/lpfx
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 2132 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/nmf
-rw-rw-r-- 3 bin bin 1185 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/ua/DEVSuffixes
-rw-r--r-- 6 bin bin 127248 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/ua/tam.a
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 7905 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/unittab
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 19440 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/xcpp
-rwxr-xr-x 3 bin bin 55080 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/xpass
-rw-r--r-- 3 bin bin 9049 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/lib/yaccpar
drwxr-xr-x 2 root bin 0 Jan 1 13:10 1970, usr/preserve
5744 blocks
======================================================================
Note that some of the user names shown here are wrong -- they are based
on the UID to user name entries in /etc/passwd and /etc/group on my Sun
workstation, not those on the original 3B1.
This is from a cpio file created by using:
cat ?of8 | cpio -ictv
to see what is there, and
cat ?of8 | cpio -icdv
(in /tmp) to extract to /tmp.
This is assuming that you've named the dd images of the eight floppies
in such a way to assure that they will be concatenated in the proper
order.
Once it is done, you run the shell script Install in /tmp (with
the extracted files there).
The install script within the GUI first looks at the "Size" file
at the beginning of the first floppy, to see whether it has enough space
in /tmp. The "Files" file contains a listing of the files which should
be in the CPIO, and the "Install" script is run by the GUI's "install"
script once the entire set of CIPOs is extracted.
BTW It takes a while, even on a Sun Blade 2000, to extract the files
from the full CPIO file.
The Install script constists of only this:
======================================================================
#sccs "@(#)devset:Install 1.4"
## Installation Script for the Development Set.
## Updated on 02/16/87 for the 3.51+ release by MDE
## for beautification.
echo
echo ' Installing Development Set libraries and commands.'
echo
echo ' Please stand by ...'
echo
## Do not install the junk from /usr/install/DEV
grep -v "/usr/install/DEV" Files | cpio -pldum / > /dev/null 2>&1
if [ ! -f /usr/lib/ua/.kshrc ]
then
ln /u/install/.kshrc /usr/lib/ua/.kshrc
fi
echo
echo ' Development Set installation complete'
echo
======================================================================
So all it does is cat the "Files" file for a list of what to
install, and copy the files to the corresponding location in the system.
This is the 3.51 development set, FWIW.
The read errors *might* come from the same source as on my
initial install floppies. They had been in the binder for a while, and
the floppy envelope had been crimped tight along one edge. To tell,
grip the floppy by the hub and see how difficult it is to turn. If you
feel more resistance on an "error" disk than on others, take a pair of
sharp (and non-magnetic) scissors, and cut the edge of the floppy jacket
off -- about 1/32" is enough, which will then free it. Slide the floppy
to the other side first so you don't snip the floppy itself. I did this
perhaps twenty years ago, and they were still readable within the last
five years.
Or -- you can download (from somewhere) the DD images of the
floppies.
FWIW -- the extracted cpio archive takes up 3.1 MB according to
du -sh .
on the Sun. The same size as the concatenated CPIO archive.
The dd images of the install floppies are this size:
======================================================================
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 1of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 2of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 3of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 4of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 5of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 6of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 7of8
-rw-r--r-- 1 dnichols family 395K May 26 2007 8of8
======================================================================
> Of course, that means kermit (I presume) to transfer files or possibly
> mtools if I install a 5 1/4 floppy drive on a windows system - or a 3
> 1/2 floppy in the 3B1.
If you go with 3-1/2" floppies, you will have to use the 720K
ones only -- the controller can't handle the speed to deal with a 1.44
MB one. And beware that *all* floppies on the 3B1 have a format which
is incompatible with the IBM-PC's format.
The initial install disks, especially the diagnostics boot disk,
is 8 sectors per track, and most of the others are 10 sectors per track,
while the standard IBM PC format is 9 sectors per track.
FWIW -- a .iso image of the whole export version (no encryption)
is 29 MB, and the US version (encryption, including encrypting versions
of vi/ex) is 30 MB.
> Ideas and pointers are welcome.
You have some suggestions above.
Hostage
George Hamstra
DoN. Nichols
long enough cables to the drive) is to lift it up and rapidly twitch it
around the vertical axis which passes through the center of the disk --
while powered up. This will sometimes break a stuck drive free, and it
will spin up -- at least once. Plan to copy everything which matters
while it is still running.
> George Hamstra
This is rather old -- I don't remember what I posted back in
September of 2011 (and you did not quote it). But in my own
experience, the most common cause of hard disk errors is the power
connector on the power supply. The +5V is split to (IIRC) three
different pins, and each pin supports a subset of the whole machine.
One for the RAM, one for the CPU, and one for the disk controllers and
similar. (Not sure which powers the card sockets.) Also, the 12V is
split between the hard drive, the floppy drive, the monitor, and some other
circuits, such as the RS-232 power (along with a -12V).
Look at the connector -- if you see the orange plastic somewhat
browned in one, that could be the cause. It usually translates into
spikes appearing in the voltages in question. In particular, if the one
to the hard drive controller spikes during the time a sector is being
written, it is likely to damage not just the sector, but also the ID
block preceding it, so the system can no longer use the sector until a
low level format cleans it all. (Yes. there are provisions for swapping
out a bad sector -- but if you have the glitching voltages, you will
keep growing the number of bad sectors.)
With burned contacts on the power connector, which often can be
fixed with a good contact cleaner like Cramolin (if you still have some
new old stock), or De-Ox-it from the same makers after the original was
discontinued). Spritz the connectors (both the pins and the ribbon
connector) and slide it on and off several times.
But it also can damage a bit more. I've seen some in which the
heat on the pin has caused a cold solder joint -- or even melted the
solder completely away from one pin on the power supply's printed
circuit board. Look on the underside, and if any joint looks somewhat
grainy, re-flow the solder with fresh lead-tin solder (before the ROHS
rules which now apply) -- first removing the old solder with a solder
sucker or fluxed braid. This should help quite a bit.
If the ribbon cable power connector has gone beyond brown, to
where some of the plastic has melted out, you need to get and install a
replacement connector. These connectors were designed to have the wires
pressed down into forks in the tops of the pins -- a thin screwdriver
can do it.
Keith Stanley
I know this is old, but I finally acquired a second MFM drive and am
looking for instructions on supporting 9 heads and a second drive.
I have only seen instructions for doing this with a PAL, your email says
you had instructions on doing this with discrete components.
I prefer adding a daughter-board to multiple mods of the motherboard.
Do you have any pointers to the instructions, or do I need to do a logic
analysis of the PAL program to come up with the implementation?
Thanks,
Keith
========
DoN. Nichols
> Don,
> I know this is old, but I finally acquired a second MFM drive and am
> looking for instructions on supporting 9 heads and a second drive.
hard disk controller? That will let you handle greater than 1024
cylinders, which you will likely encounter on the larger drives which
also have more than 8 heads.
> I have only seen instructions for doing this with a PAL, your email says
> you had instructions on doing this with discrete components.
> I prefer adding a daughter-board to multiple mods of the motherboard.
information. I know that it was archived somewhere, but I don't seem to
have a copy on my system. I think that it was Thad Floryian (I may have
the last name mis-spelled there) who did it -- but it could have been
one of the other regulars from back then. Perhaps Lenny Tropiano?
Perhaps yet another whose name won't come to me?
Anyway -- back then, I looked at the schematic and decided that
it was not many chips needed -- and then looked at the schematics for
the system board and discovered that all but one chip's worth were
already on the board as spares -- and that there were extra 20-pin pad
sets for mods to the system board -- where they are located varies with
which revision of the board, so too precise directions don't work. :-)
But -- find an empty set of pads back in the back left corner
(sometimes two, sometimes a pot has been added to one, and has to be
relocated).
The drivers for the data (and especially the receivers for the
differential data from the drive) are spares on the system board,
requiring careful cutting of traces which tie the unused inputs to
either ground or VCC to keep them from responding to noise. I think
that the differential drivers and receivers are hard to find today, so
using the spare parts of the built-in ones makes sense -- other than the
slightly nerve-racking cutting of the traces. (I found that one of the
abrasive discs on a Dremel tool did the job quite nicely.
So -- it *can* all be done with a single added socket and chip,
and a bit of creative wiring. One trick uses the spare lines in the
data ribbon cable to carry the extra drive's worth to an external
housing. (I actually put both drives in the external housing, to reduce
the load that the 5V and 12V to the drives put on the power supply, and
on the pins from the power supply to the system board, which tend to
overheat and damage the power supply board). And, since the box I used
(external drive box for a 3B2, so the color scheme matches) had a 5V
signal to turn on its internal power supply, I used the 5V which used to
go to the drive to turn on the power supply in the external box. It
also had (already mounted) a floppy tape drive, so I was able to have it
all working outboard from the 3B1's box. IIRC, I ran both hard drive's
control signals, *plus* the data signals through a single 50-conductor
cable, split out to 34-pin and 20-pin connectors at each end. (Yes,
more pins than 50 there, but there were unused pins at the end of the
34-pin part, so no problem. And the 20-pin part could be arranged so
one IDC connector at the end on one side, and a half-twist to put the
other connector on the other side and it all fit. Then a 34-pin cable
to talk to the floppy tape drive from the floppy tape controller card.
I think that the PAL went in the same 20-pin socket where my
mod goes, but I've never seen the PAL.
> Do you have any pointers to the instructions, or do I need to do a logic
> analysis of the PAL program to come up with the implementation?
(barely) legible instructions. (I just checked, and discovered that I
had just re-blocked the IP from which your e-mail would come. Hopefully
you can get an e-mail to me before it gets blocked again.
And my e-mail (From: above and in .sig below are spam-proofed,
but the instructions on de-spam-proofing are also int he .sig below.
My modified system is currently in storage and difficult to get
to as part of the clean-up after a fire last year. (And, we are about to
get some nasty weather for the next two or three days, so digging the
hardware out would be rather difficult anyway. But hopefully, that
should not be necessary. I'm currently working on de-rusting many
machine tools damaged by the smoke from the fire.
Enjoy,
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
tlvp
> Hmm ... trying to remember who originally produced the mod
> information. I know that it was archived somewhere, but I don't seem to
> have a copy on my system. I think that it was Thad Floryian (I may have
> the last name mis-spelled there) who did it -- but it could have been
> one of the other regulars from back then. Perhaps Lenny Tropiano?
> Perhaps yet another whose name won't come to me?
dead wrong :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.