Re: >f'<

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Dik T. Winter

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Feb 10, 2009, 10:00:18 PM2/10/09
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In article <f-prime-200...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
> When translating the mathematical ASCII text »f'«
> into Unicode, which Unicode character should be chosen
> best for each of the two characters? For example,
>
> U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F
> U+0192 LATIN SMALL LETTER F WITH HOOK, LATIN SMALL LETTER SCRIPT F
> U+1D453 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL F
>
> U+0027 APOSTROPHE
> U+02B9 MODIFIER LETTER PRIME
> U+2032 PRIME

That depends on the purpose. In mathematics I would choose: 1D453+2032
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dik t. winter, cwi, science park 123, 1098 xg amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

Ian Clifton

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Feb 11, 2009, 5:12:53 AM2/11/09
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"Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> writes:

> In article <f-prime-200...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
> r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
> > When translating the mathematical ASCII text »f'«
> > into Unicode, which Unicode character should be chosen
> > best for each of the two characters? For example,
> >
> > U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F
> > U+0192 LATIN SMALL LETTER F WITH HOOK, LATIN SMALL LETTER SCRIPT F
> > U+1D453 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL F
> >
> > U+0027 APOSTROPHE
> > U+02B9 MODIFIER LETTER PRIME
> > U+2032 PRIME
>
> That depends on the purpose. In mathematics I would choose: 1D453+2032

What should be used in a MathML context would you say? Are either of
<mi>f</mi> or <mi>&#x1D453;</mi> to be preferred?

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Ian Clifton Phone: +44 1865 275677
Chemistry Research Laboratory Fax: +44 1865 285002
Oxford University ian.c...@chem.ox.ac.uk
Mansfield Road Oxford OX1 3TA UK

Dik T. Winter

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Feb 11, 2009, 9:18:13 PM2/11/09
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In article <4qy6wdf...@jerry.chem.ox.ac.uk> Ian Clifton <ian.c...@chem.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> writes:
> > In article <f-prime-200...@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>
...

> > > U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F
> > > U+1D453 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL F
...

> > That depends on the purpose. In mathematics I would choose: 1D453+2032
>
> What should be used in a MathML context would you say? Are either of
> <mi>f</mi> or <mi>&#x1D453;</mi> to be preferred?

1D453 in a mathematical context, I would think. Why not? It is stated to
be the "mathematical" f. That it may be rendered the same as an italic
standard 'f' is something else. (And, indeed, in mathematical text I would
certainly use the italic form of the letter.)

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Ian Clifton

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Feb 12, 2009, 6:55:10 AM2/12/09
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r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

> "Dik T. Winter" <Dik.W...@cwi.nl> writes:
>>1D453 in a mathematical context, I would think. Why not? It is stated to
>>be the "mathematical" f. That it may be rendered the same as an italic
>>standard 'f' is something else. (And, indeed, in mathematical text I would
>>certainly use the italic form of the letter.)
>

> The meaning of »mathematical f« is not given either by the
> mathematiccal literatur nor by the special literatur on
> mathematical typesetting. I never heard »mathematical f«
> before.
>
> In mathematics, a letter sometimes needs to be printed in
> italics, other times not. If »f« is a variable for a function,
> but not a specific function, it should be printed in italics.
> If it is used as the name of a specific function or value, it
> does not have to be written in italics, for example, in »ln x«,
> the x is written in italics, but the »ln« is not. »f« should
> also not be written in italics, if it is used as a hexadecimal
> numeral.
>
> So, I do not know what a »mathematical f« is or when to use is.

I suppose my question was what happens when letters inherit their
"mathematical nature" in more than one way, for instance by being the
character U+1D453 or by being inside a <mi> element. I was wondering if
it was considered bad form to mix them. I guess mixing them freely, as
Dik Winter says, makes most sense - it's analogous in a way to the
"presentation" and "content" markup in MathML, which can be mixed in
acknowledgement of the needed freedom to express both meaning and
notation at the same time - the mathematical ideas expressed might
overlap.

Markus Kuhn

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Apr 13, 2009, 3:47:04 PM4/13/09
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r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:
|> When translating the mathematical ASCII text »f'«
|> into Unicode, which Unicode character should be chosen
|> best for each of the two characters?

Clearly

U+1D453 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL F

U+2032 PRIME

however the first of the two seems not yet widely implemented
in text processing systems.

Markus

--
Markus Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ || CB3 0FD, Great Britain

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