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Stealth mode advocacy

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Phlip

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Sep 15, 2002, 2:25:10 PM9/15/02
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Extremos:

Quite a few of the "detractors" or "debators" of XP on this group have a
curious habit in common. They rarely claim what all of their own practices,
if any, are. They only claim these practices are somehow more "disciplined"
or "pragmatic" or "responsible" than XP.

If they did, however, reveal their own methodological persuasions, we could
give these the same treatment:

- not try them
- not read their case studies
- read the online brochures, but not the books
- make them repeat the books to us, paragraph by paragraph
- claim we are so smart that we can mis-interpret anything,
excluding exactly that context required

Now maybe these "detractors" have learned to exploit a very common
weakness: People at our level of XP awareness are very good at explaining
it, and we take any opportunity to practice. We should expect the same of
any who claim to advocate a methodology.

However, kiddies, what are you hiding there?

--
Phlip
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp
-- Just think: Four billion people in the
world have never received Spam... --

John Kordyback

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Sep 15, 2002, 9:56:09 PM9/15/02
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As has been mentioned many times, the word "Extreme" seems to invoke a
knee jerk reaction from many people. In consulting, I avoid the term and
use phrases like "Agile Approaches" or (the much overused) "Best Practices".

I focus on the discipline required for Agile and how the practices
vastly improve the chances of the project's success. I have used 4 or 5
major methodologies over the last dozen years before coming to XP and am
still impressed by it's success rate and the reaction of the clients.
Client's who have been through an Agile project usually say they
wouldn't ever want to do it any other way.

I am sure XP projects have failed - but I haven't seen them. At the end
of the day, happy clients matter to me, rather than the endless (and
often academic) methodology debates.

/jck

Phlip

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Sep 16, 2002, 12:19:59 AM9/16/02
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John Kordyback wrote:

> As has been mentioned many times, the word "Extreme" seems to invoke a
> knee jerk reaction from many people. In consulting, I avoid the term and
> use phrases like "Agile Approaches" or (the much overused) "Best
> Practices".
>
> I focus on the discipline required for Agile and how the practices
> vastly improve the chances of the project's success. I have used 4 or 5
> major methodologies over the last dozen years before coming to XP and am
> still impressed by it's success rate and the reaction of the clients.
> Client's who have been through an Agile project usually say they
> wouldn't ever want to do it any other way.

Absolutely on all counts. I don't expect anyone here to understand how
profoundly different my consulting behavior is in non-virtual fora. When I
can't interject clickers to definitions of this jargon, I don't use it.

This stealth, however, is not stealth mode advocacy. Those curious about my
own methodological ideals need only ask.

> I am sure XP projects have failed - but I haven't seen them. At the end
> of the day, happy clients matter to me, rather than the endless (and
> often academic) methodology debates.

Oh, if only they were academic!

--
Phlip
http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp
-- "The Epiphany of the Epiphenomenon of the Epiphysis"
- some jerk-off maliciously pretending to be Henry Miller --

Eliot Miranda

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Sep 16, 2002, 10:07:48 PM9/16/02
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I refer the erstwhile poster to law 9 from "The 48 Laws Of Power" by
Robert Greene and Joost Elffers, to whit:

Law 9 – Win Through Your Actions, Never Through Argument
Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is
really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is
stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It
is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your
actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

your opponents are observing law 4: – Always Say Less Than Necessary
When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say,
the more common you appear, and the Less in control. Even if you are
saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague,
open-ended, and sphinxlike. Powerful people impress and intimidate by
saying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say
something foolish.

They understand and fear law 5:
– So Much Depends On Reputation – Guard It With Your Life
Reputation is the cornerstone of power Through reputation alone you
can intimidate and win; once it slips, however, you are vulnerable,
and will be attacked on all sides. Make your reputation unassailable.
Always be alert to potential attacks and thwart them before they happen.
Meanwhile, learn to destroy your enemies by opening holes in their own
reputations. Then stand aside and let public opinion hang them.

Seriously, though, don't waste your breath. This forum might
be an interesting place to read and write about XP and related
topics, but its not a court and its not the real world.
Here it doesn't really matter whether you appear to win or lose
(and there are far more readers than writers who keep their
opinions to themselves). Be successful with XP. Don't let your
efforts to that end be sapped in fruitless argument with opponents,
some of whom may have a vested interest in seeing you fail because
they're invested in competing approaches. You may need all your
talent and strength to compete successfully and the herd is merely
cautious; they will adopt what obviously works, not what claims to.

--
_______________,,,^..^,,,____________________________
Eliot Miranda Smalltalk - Scene not herd

Richard MacDonald

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Sep 16, 2002, 11:17:22 PM9/16/02
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Eliot Miranda <eli...@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:3D868F74...@pacbell.net:


> Law 9 – Win Through Your Actions, Never Through Argument
> Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is
> really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is
> stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It
> is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your
> actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.

"Win an argument, lose a friend."

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