wxFormBuilder Drag & Drop widgets not possible?
Lars Uffmann
(which I didn't download because 2.0 said stable ;) but...
After starting a new project in wxFormBuilder, adding a Dialog, and a
wxBoxSizer to that, and a Button (or any control) to that, I simply can
not seem to get anything changed with drag & drop: no resize, no
positioning. That's sorta defying the whole reason for a GUI builder,
isn't it?
Anyone able to tell me what I am doing wrong?
Thanks!
Lars
Eran Ifrah
If u want to make your button bigger and fill up the entire size -> just set the appropriate flag for the sizer item (there are 2 button in the toolbar that can help u doing it).
You need to design your UI in terms of sizers - when using sizers, there is no point in dragging items around the dialog, since they will be re-arranged by the sizers.
Eran
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Eran Ifrah
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Lars Uffmann
> The wxFormBuilder follows the wxWidgets' UI approach, it uses sizers.
> If u want to make your button bigger and fill up the entire size -> just set
> the appropriate flag for the sizer item (there are 2 button in the toolbar
> that can help u doing it).
Actually - no - I did not mainly want to change the size of my button -
I want to design my form as >I< think it should be.
> You need to design your UI in terms of sizers - when using sizers, there is
> no point in dragging items around the dialog, since they will be re-arranged
> by the sizers.
Thank you very much for clearing that up, I guess I do not need to
bother with the wxFormBuilder anymore - is this limitation
wxWidgets-based? Or can I do absolute positioning with wxWidgets? If
that concept of sizers means wxWidgets in general doesn't allow the
developer to lay out their own forms, then I'll have to find a different
solution.
Right now I'm very dissapointed in wxFormBuilder and - possibly - of
wxWidgets. I can't understand how anyone could possibly not care about
the optics of their form. This is an approach similar to html, only that
in html it makes sense, and here it doesn't :( Don't get me wrong, I
understand "the idea" of sizers, as I just finished reading it. I just
disagree. A dynamically sized application window is the exception, not
the rule.
After looking into WideStudio, Qt, and now wxWidget, I'm slowly losing
hope that there is anything non Microsoft out there with the look & feel
of Borland's Delphi/C++ Builder or VB. Am I really asking so much? All I
want is a cross-platform combination of IDE & Graphical Window Designer
for C++ programming which is NOT Microsoft - preferably non commercial,
but heck - I don't mind paying for a decent software, if I can test it
first.
Sorry for letting out all the frustration here - I've been trying
different approaches for 2 weeks now, and it seems like everyone except
me is perfectly happy with what they got, and what they got so far has
never been acceptable for me. :/ At first it seemed that wxWidgets would
at least provide a decent framework - if that now also disqualifies
itself, I'm sort of at a dead end...
*sigh*
Lars
Eran Ifrah
Using wxFB, you can create a very complex layouts in no time (and I am not related anyhow to that project, I am just a satisfied user) - but again using the sizers concept, which IMO is better than abs positioning approach.
Eran
Lars
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Eran Ifrah
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chris elliott
Lars Uffmann wrote:
>
> Eran Ifrah wrote:
>> The wxFormBuilder follows the wxWidgets' UI approach, it uses sizers.
>> If u want to make your button bigger and fill up the entire size ->
>> just set
>> the appropriate flag for the sizer item (there are 2 button in the
>> toolbar
>> that can help u doing it).
>
> Actually - no - I did not mainly want to change the size of my button -
> I want to design my form as >I< think it should be.
>
The reason wxWigets uses sizers is that pixel-based layouts that work on
windows may not work on Linux Solaris... or Macs.
chris
Lars Uffmann
> Dont get me wrong here, WX **does** allows you to place widgets in absolute
> position, but personally I don't think it is the right thing to do (imagine
> a re-sizable dialog..)
Well - I tend to think that I - as the developer - know a lot better
than any compiler or code, which design is good for my application -
especially when the design evolves with feedback from the user.
I have very strong objections against letting any code take over the
arrangement of controls in my application.
> Using wxFB, you can create a very complex layouts in no time (and I am not
> related anyhow to that project, I am just a satisfied user) - but again
> using the sizers concept, which IMO is better than abs positioning approach.
I found the two tutorials that I was able to locate... lacking. I
haven't even managed to place 2 controls next to each other yet - the
best I've managed to come up with is different sizers below each other.
At least there should be a way to split a panel/sizer horizontally or
vertically between two child sizers, by a percentage, for example: This
area gets divided 30:70 ... instead: nada
Easy example under Windows: My Computer -> Properties - General
I don't see how that trivial window could be designed with wxFB. Do you
happen to know this is doable? Or have a link to a good tutorial? Google
failed me. :(
All I want is manually arrange some labels, text inputs, radio buttons,
checkboxes and buttons.... Maybe a listbox. Nothing fancy, just the
stuff that's been around for way longer than 12 years...
Best Regards,
Lars
Lars Uffmann
> The reason wxWigets uses sizers is that pixel-based layouts that work on
> windows may not work on Linux Solaris... or Macs.
I was never talking about pixels - I don't care if it's pixels,
percentages, or millimeters, really... I just don't want my application
to be basically an executable browserwindow.... The design limitations
to html are very valid limitations for the web, content based. But it is
absolutely defying the reasons of a graphical UI to ignore relative
positioning, in whatever unit.
Best Regards,
Lars
Fabian Cenedese
>Thank you very much for clearing that up, I guess I do not need to bother with the wxFormBuilder anymore - is this limitation wxWidgets-based? Or can I do absolute positioning with wxWidgets? If that concept of sizers means wxWidgets in general doesn't allow the developer to lay out their own forms, then I'll have to find a different solution.
>
>Right now I'm very dissapointed in wxFormBuilder and - possibly - of wxWidgets. I can't understand how anyone could possibly not care about the optics of their form. This is an approach similar to html, only that in html it makes sense, and here it doesn't :( Don't get me wrong, I understand "the idea" of sizers, as I just finished reading it. I just disagree. A dynamically sized application window is the exception, not the rule.
Using sizers doesn't mean, that your window is necessarily resizable
(though that usually is the best option). You can use fixed sizes, minimal
sizes, place holders etc to get exactly the layout you want, but it may
not be as easy as with VB's drag'n'drop. I've also used FormBuilder
and it has helped me quite a lot in understanding the concept and in
playing around with the various flags. There are some items in my
application that are not resizeable (like labels), but for the most part
they are.
I'm sure there are cases where a fixed layout is needed (e.g. if a real
hardware gets simulated, like those vintage synthesizers). But usually
if I encounter an application that is not resizeable I'm already displeased.
If it fits on a small display it may be too small for a large display and
the other way round. Whenever I made an application in MFC I had
to add all the calculating and moving of the elements to support
resizing. So I myself like the help I get from the wx's sizers. But as
I said there are cases where a fixed layout can be acceptable. Just
my opinion though.
bye Fabi
Julian Smart
As far as I know all dialog editors for wxWidgets use the sizers
approach. It's normal for people coming from other backgrounds to
initially be confused by sizers and wonder why you can't drag controls
around, but most will suddenly 'get it' after some time and then find
sizers a better method. wxWidgets does, of course, care about the visual
appearance of dialogs and other windows - that's the whole point of
sizers; not just to cater for dynamic layouts but for platform and
translation adaptation.
So my advice is to persist for a while longer and hopefully the switch
in your brain will be flipped as other wxWidgets users have found, and
then they find the sizer experience enjoyable and rewarding for the most
part, when used in conjunction with a tool. Another way of looking at it
is, if sizers were so rubbish, wxWidgets would have died a long time
ago, and major companies would not be using it and saying how easy it is
to create dialogs with <insert tool of choice here>. It's a matter of
adjusting. However if you can't adjust, then that's a pity but good luck
with your quest for a solution.
Regards,
Julian
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Julian Smart
>
>> Using wxFB, you can create a very complex layouts in no time (and I
>> am not
>> related anyhow to that project, I am just a satisfied user) - but again
>> using the sizers concept, which IMO is better than abs positioning
>> approach.
>
> I found the two tutorials that I was able to locate... lacking. I
> haven't even managed to place 2 controls next to each other yet - the
> best I've managed to come up with is different sizers below each
> other. At least there should be a way to split a panel/sizer
> horizontally or vertically between two child sizers, by a percentage,
> for example: This area gets divided 30:70 ... instead: nada
>
> Easy example under Windows: My Computer -> Properties - General
> I don't see how that trivial window could be designed with wxFB. Do
> you happen to know this is doable? Or have a link to a good tutorial?
> Google failed me. :(
>
> All I want is manually arrange some labels, text inputs, radio
> buttons, checkboxes and buttons.... Maybe a listbox. Nothing fancy,
> just the stuff that's been around for way longer than 12 years...
Try e.g. the sample that comes with DialogBlocks. There are lots of
dialogs of varying complexity. The dialogs in DialogBlocks were created
with DialogBlocks, but I have far more complex dialogs than illustrated
there, with many many controls in intricate layouts.
You can create any kind of dialog layout. Sizers just provide a
different and platform-independent way to do it.
Regards,
Julian
Vadim Zeitlin
EI> Dont get me wrong here, WX **does** allows you to place widgets in absolute
EI> position, but personally I don't think it is the right thing to do (imagine
EI> a re-sizable dialog..)
FWIW this is the official position of all wx developers too. Yes, you can
use absolute positioning in wx. But no, it doesn't make sense to build a
dialog editor allowing to do it because it's absolutely useless for any non
toy program. You (Lars) are welcome to waste time using absolute
positioning but we already did this (15 years ago) and realized that it
simply doesn't work. Others have already mentioned that a layout using
absolute positioning which looks nice on one platform will be absolutely
broken on another one, I'll just add that even if you target only one
platform you still can't use absolute positioning because of:
- i18n: controls don't take up the same space when they use texts in
English and e.g. German
- display resolution: there are too many broken Windows program to count
which can't be used with "Large fonts" settings -- and all of them use
absolute positioning
You can also ask yourself why no other modern UI framework (in any
language, be it C++, Java or C#) uses absolute positioning.
Regards,
VZ
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Werner Smekal
sorry, but you should just take your time to understand how the sizer
concept of wxWidgets works. It's absolutely hopeless to ask for the
ability to control the position of the widgets pixelwise and hope that
this will work on all platforms.
There is much documentation about the sizer concept which is
difficulty to understand at first, but once you understand it you can
do practically all you want to do. Arrange all your buttons and
widgets where-ever you want them (hint: there are spacer you can
expand) - but just you can't (actually you can, but you should not)
position them absolutely and let wxWidgets do that.
http://www.wxwidgets.org/wiki/index.php/WxSizer
http://neume.sourceforge.net/sizerdemo/
http://www.wxwidgets.org/manuals/stable/wx_sizeroverview.html
I also recommend reading the book "Cross-Platform GUI Programming with
wxWidgets" (http://www.wxwidgets.org/docs/book/). You can download it
as pdf somewhere and than go buy it, because it's worth it's money
every cent. There is a chapter about sizers which answers all your
questions.
Regardsm
Werner
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Lars Uffmann
> As far as I know all dialog editors for wxWidgets use the sizers
> approach. It's normal for people coming from other backgrounds to
> initially be confused by sizers and wonder why you can't drag controls
> around, but most will suddenly 'get it' after some time and then find
> sizers a better method.
"Confused" is about the understatement of the century :) I've been
playing around a bit with the wxFB now, I am getting the hang of it and
I will be able to suit some of my purposes with it, though I'm not
exactly happy with the compromise.
I just don't think it can possibly be called a "better" method, because
it is _different_ method, comparable in some cases, but by far not in
all - I agree there is lots of applications where the sizer concept will
come in handy, but in many cases, it is just making it impossible to do
what you want. Or maybe I am understanding something wrong, but how, for
example, would it be possible to create a synoptic display? Think of a
simple electronic circuit design, with LEDs, text fields and labels at
certain positions, displaying measurement values.
And basically, that's what I will need in the near future, for telemetry
displays...
Experimenting further with the builder right now..
Thanks anyways for the support!
Lars
Julian Smart
>
> Julian Smart wrote:
>> As far as I know all dialog editors for wxWidgets use the sizers
>> approach. It's normal for people coming from other backgrounds to
>> initially be confused by sizers and wonder why you can't drag
>> controls around, but most will suddenly 'get it' after some time and
>> then find sizers a better method.
>
> "Confused" is about the understatement of the century :) I've been
> playing around a bit with the wxFB now, I am getting the hang of it
> and I will be able to suit some of my purposes with it,
> though I'm not exactly happy with the compromise.
>
> I just don't think it can possibly be called a "better" method,
> because it is _different_ method, comparable in some cases, but by far
> not in all - I agree there is lots of applications where the sizer
> concept will come in handy, but in many cases, it is just making it
> impossible to do what you want. Or maybe I am understanding something
> wrong, but how, for example, would it be possible to create a synoptic
> display? Think of a simple electronic circuit design, with LEDs, text
> fields and labels at certain positions, displaying measurement values.
> And basically, that's what I will need in the near future, for
> telemetry displays...
GUI builder. I would imagine you would build a drag and drop interface
to implement this but you wouldn't use sizers and an existing GUI editor
for this (except for the dialogs and maybe the general window layout).
It's common to build drag-and-drop, abolute-positioning interfaces with
wxWidgets, for specific purposes (I've built several myself, including a
pinboard-type tool).
Good luck!
Best regards,
Julian
Lars Uffmann
> FWIW this is the official position of all wx developers too. Yes, you can
> use absolute positioning in wx. But no, it doesn't make sense to build a
> dialog editor allowing to do it because it's absolutely useless for any non
> toy program.
If you consider synoptic telemetry displays for space science "toy
programs", then yes, I guess you're right... Sorry, I would like to
develop toy programs...
The thing is, I do not want to develop a cross-platform application. Not
for the time being, at least. The reason I would like to use a
cross-platform GUI and according builder is that I do want to develop
both for Windows and Linux, and I don't want to have to learn a
different IDE for each. The only reason to use an IDE in the first place
is that I want a GUI builder - for sheer text based / computing
applications, I'm happy with emacs + gnu + kdiff3.
Either way - I guess I'll let you know (if anyone really cares ;) if I
can arrange myself with wx or not. Right now I don't see how I can
achieve what I want to using wx. If at least the use of sizers was not
enforced...
Thanks for all your feedback, everyone.
Best Regards,
Lars
Lars Uffmann
> This sounds like an editor in its own right, rather than a task for a
> GUI builder. I would imagine you would build a drag and drop interface
> to implement this but you wouldn't use sizers and an existing GUI editor
> for this (except for the dialogs and maybe the general window layout).
Well - the problem is effort vs. reward. I'm used to focusing on the
real code behind the GUI - coming from a database programming background
- the functionality. I'm not really good at graphics programming, nor do
I get paid to create a display builder software.
We have some serious limitations here because the NASA telemetry
applications that we use are windows based, and our existing telemetry
building systems are linux based. I hope that with the next telemetry
system we get, I'll be able to easily define the packets coming from
NASA and avoid using the windows based software, then use our existing
display builder software (though I don't even know yet if we have a
general one). Another drawback is that we do already have telemetry
displays for our experiments, but they are also limited to windows.
So while I wouldn't mind the learning experience from building such a
system, I don't have the time for it and was hoping I could simply click
together my displays and put the code behind them. Now it seems like for
that I'll have to resort to VC++ - and I really really hate the notion
of being forced to use Microsoftware due to lack of alternatives.
Best Regards,
Lars
Vadim Zeitlin
LU> If you consider synoptic telemetry displays for space science
This is not something you should be developing using a dialog editor
anyhow. And yes, you will have to spend some effort on this and you will
have to solve the same problems the sizers already solve for the standard
controls (i.e. i18n, display resolution dependency, ...). Maybe you can use
sizers for layout of panels which you will then position in your UI to save
you at least some work but, again, if I understand you correctly and you
need to implement a complex view with labels positioned in different places
you won't be able to do it with a dialog editor.
As an example, I'm currently working on a map viewing application. Of
course I don't use sizers for positioning the labels of the map elements.
LU> If at least the use of sizers was not enforced...
It is not enforced. It's futile to design any dialogs (where a dialog is a
window containing many standard controls) without them however.
Fabian Cenedese
>Either way - I guess I'll let you know (if anyone really cares ;) if I can arrange myself with wx or not. Right now I don't see how I can achieve what I want to using wx. If at least the use of sizers was not enforced...
If you run into a dead-end, just ask on this list, I'm sure the people here
have a solution for you.
bye Fabi
Lars Uffmann
> If you run into a dead-end, just ask on this list, I'm sure the people here
> have a solution for you.
Thank you - I appreciate that. If only getting started was not such a
big deal...
:)
Lars
Riccardo Cohen
I just wanted to tell you my point of view about this.
I've been using wx for years now, for crossplatform or for windows only,
and I will tell you my feeling about it.
Sizers may seem frustrating if you've been using ide like MS Visual
Basic, OK :) . But they are not very difficult to use, just a different
way of doing, and you surely don't have to be an graphic expert ...
In the same time, with wx, you get some little things you should really
consider :
- wxWidgets is a C++ library that let you build any kind of desktop user
interface for any kind of application (including sound/3d ..)
- this library is highly portable on most platforms including mobile,
many languages, many compilers
- it is open in many ways : open source, open to contributors, open to
other libraries, open to compilers and platforms, open to all kind of
applications, open to follow the latest technologies in C++ development
WHAT IT HAS MORE
----------------
- wxWidgets is totally free of charge, including for commercial developments
- wxWidgets is reliable : see all softwares developed with it
- wxWidgets has a very stable API, easy to learn and to understand
- wxWidgets has plenty of useful components for all kind of activities :
user experience, communications, storage, threading, ...
- wxWidgets is ready for unicode and internationalization with standards
(gettext, utf8...)
EVEN MORE
---------
- wxWidgets community is alive and helpful, and there are many way of
getting support, including consultants
- wxWidgets is already included as standard package in most linux and in
macosx
- around wxWidgets there are many tools, like IDE/RAD, and components
(see wxcode)
As everything on earth, wxWidget is not perfect, far from it. You are
free to loose all these benefits because of sizers.
I use DialogBlocks (which is not free) to build the interface, and it is
really a pleasure. Give it a try... (I don't know others IDE for wx so I
cannot tell which is better)
Good luck
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Très cordialement,
Riccardo Cohen
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Milan Babuskov
> I found the two tutorials that I was able to locate... lacking. I
> haven't even managed to place 2 controls next to each other yet - the
> best I've managed to come up with is different sizers below each other.
Create a horizontal box sizer and just add 2 controls to it. (Box sizer,
change to horizontal, click on controls in toolbar to add)
> At least there should be a way to split a panel/sizer horizontally or
> vertically between two child sizers, by a percentage, for example: This
> area gets divided 30:70 ... instead: nada
For first control set the factor to 30, for the second one to 70. I
believe it is called 'option' or something like that in wxFB. Both
controls have to set to expand.
Please note that wxFB is great once you know all about sizers. It is not
a good tool to learn about them.
> Easy example under Windows: My Computer -> Properties - General
> I don't see how that trivial window could be designed with wxFB. Do you
> happen to know this is doable? Or have a link to a good tutorial?
Very simple. You need wxNotebook or some of related *book classes.
Take a look at wxWidgets website, there are examples of many
applications that have various dialog layouts. It is doable.
Regarding your original problem, IIRC wxDev or wxDevC++ does support
absolute positioning and drag and drop. I believe this is the closest to
Delphi/C++Builder you can get:
http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net/
Also, search for VisualWX... IIRC it has some absolute positioning
support as well.
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http://www.guacosoft.com
Klaas Holwerda
>
>
> So while I wouldn't mind the learning experience from building such a
> system, I don't have the time for it and was hoping I could simply click
> together my displays and put the code behind them. Now it seems like for
> that I'll have to resort to VC++ - and I really really hate the notion
> of being forced to use Microsoftware due to lack of alternatives.
I wonder if VEE from Agilent would not be much better for you.
It depends on the data you get, and how.
But if it is files based, you can easily display it in almost any way, and at
the same time build your interface around it. All graphical based, no C++.
In the end you can even generate an executable if needed.
Klaas
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Unclassified
Stef Mientki
As others allready mentioned, VEE or LabView (both are not M$ related
;-) sounds like the best solution for your problem (at least at this
moment).
Entering the open source world about a year ago, I too was very much
surprised, nothing equally well as Delphi existed,
and GUI design is a real crime, whatever package you choose (I didn't
investigate QT for it's weird license).
I've no real explanation for it, but I expect the most obvious
explanation for it, seems that the open source world is a world of
programmers, not a world of users. ( And maybe the fact that National
Instruments held the patents on Visual Programming untill last year).
Last year I tried to get a feeling of the need for open source versions
of programs like LabView, and about 99% for the responders didn't see
any benefit of such a program ( which amplifies my assumption of the
ratio programmers / users, and even adds the question "for who are we
making all these programs" ;-)
cheers,
Stef Mientki
Robin Dunn
>
> Entering the open source world about a year ago, I too was very much
> surprised, nothing equally well as Delphi existed,
It's mainly for (wx)Python but Boa Constructor strives to be
Delphi-like, and I know that a lot of people really like it.
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
You'll want to get the version from CVS.
https://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=1909
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
Stef Mientki
Robin Dunn wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>
>> Entering the open source world about a year ago, I too was very much
>> surprised, nothing equally well as Delphi existed,
>
> It's mainly for (wx)Python but Boa Constructor strives to be
> Delphi-like, and I know that a lot of people really like it.
> http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
>
Thanks Robin,
I think you've touched here another problem of open source software:
you (almost) only get feedback of positive results,
whereas with a commercial package you (almost) get the feedback of
negative results ;-)
When I started with wxPython, I tried several of these packages (5 or 6),
neither of these packages worked at my places (2) :-(
I see that I still have the Boa package, so let's try:
- starting Boa ....
- error message " 'module' object has no attribute
'DateTime_GetNumberOfDaysinYear' "
- and Boa closes
I've installed Delphi on dozens of systems, without any problem ;-)
In the meanwhile I'm used to layout the small panels by hand, and let
AUI manage the larger designs,
until my own GUI (wxPython based) is ready ;-)
cheers,
Stef
> You'll want to get the version from CVS.
> https://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=1909
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Stef Mientki
Stef Mientki wrote:
>
>
> Robin Dunn wrote:
>> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>>
>>> Entering the open source world about a year ago, I too was very much
>>> surprised, nothing equally well as Delphi existed,
>>
>> It's mainly for (wx)Python but Boa Constructor strives to be
>> Delphi-like, and I know that a lot of people really like it.
>> http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
>>
> Thanks Robin,
> I think you've touched here another problem of open source software:
> you (almost) only get feedback of positive results,
> whereas with a commercial package you (almost) get the feedback of
> negative results ;-)
>
> When I started with wxPython, I tried several of these packages (5 or 6),
> neither of these packages worked at my places (2) :-(
> I see that I still have the Boa package, so let's try:
> - starting Boa ....
> - error message " 'module' object has no attribute
> 'DateTime_GetNumberOfDaysinYear' "
> - and Boa closes
> I've installed Delphi on dozens of systems, without any problem ;-)
>
> In the meanwhile I'm used to layout the small panels by hand, and let
> AUI manage the larger designs,
> until my own GUI (wxPython based) is ready ;-)
>
Robin, I forgot to mention one important fact,
the way you present wxPython is really outstanding,
the wxPython demo is really a beautiful example,
and AFAIK a real exception in the open source world.
I installed it on about 5 different machines without any problem, my
compliments !
So it's possible after all ;-)
cheers,
Stef
Kit Bishop
If its any consolation, I know exactly where you are coming from.
I came from a background of developing UIs withe absolute positioning from a pure MS background and knew just how to get things looking just as I wanted.
Then, I had the need to develop a cross platform application and having chosen wxWidgets as a framework - its free, its comprehensive, it works well, its well supported by its contributors.
I started hand constructing all my dialogues etc. with absolute positioning. As well as being a pain in the neck to try to do this directly in code without a GUI designer, I soon came across all the issues others have described - changes in default font size, screen resolution etc. could complete mess up my carefully constructed layout - truncated text, gaps too big etc. etc. - this was even worse when comparing MS and Linux.
It took me quite a long while to (a) get my head round sizers; (b) come to grips with their best usage. However, Having done so, I can now produce good looking layouts irrespective of the various factors.
Using the various sizer types allows one to specify positional relationships between GUI elements rather than actual positions.
I find myself using nested sizers quite a lot. Some important factors to bear in mind are:
- Usage of vertical or horizontal sizers
- Judicious use of expand and stretch
- Use of spacer to fill in spaces where there is no control
- Use of weighting factors to get proportions (can be applied to spacers and sizers as well as controls)
- Use of various grid sizers for regular grid layouts
Like others, I would encourage you to persevere with sizers. If you find wxFormBuilder not to your taste, I have heard good things about the other GUI designers that have been mentioned - try them and see which most fits your needs, likes and pocket :-)
Best regards,
Kit Bishop
Robin Dunn
>
>
> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>
>>
>> Robin Dunn wrote:
>>> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Entering the open source world about a year ago, I too was very much
>>>> surprised, nothing equally well as Delphi existed,
>>>
>>> It's mainly for (wx)Python but Boa Constructor strives to be
>>> Delphi-like, and I know that a lot of people really like it.
>>> http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/
>>>
>> Thanks Robin,
>> I think you've touched here another problem of open source software:
>> you (almost) only get feedback of positive results,
>> whereas with a commercial package you (almost) get the feedback of
>> negative results ;-)
>>
>> When I started with wxPython, I tried several of these packages (5 or 6),
>> neither of these packages worked at my places (2) :-(
>> I see that I still have the Boa package, so let's try:
>> - starting Boa ....
>> - error message " 'module' object has no attribute
>> 'DateTime_GetNumberOfDaysinYear' "
>> - and Boa closes
I don't remember details but I seem to recall that somewhere there is a
version of Boa that doesn't use the old (deprecated and sometimes
broken) wxPython namespace. You can probably find out more about it on
the boa mail list. On the other hand, commenting out that one line in
wxPython/_misc.py does allow Boa's current CVS to start up for me.
>> I've installed Delphi on dozens of systems, without any problem ;-)
>>
>> In the meanwhile I'm used to layout the small panels by hand, and let
>> AUI manage the larger designs,
>> until my own GUI (wxPython based) is ready ;-)
>>
> Robin, I forgot to mention one important fact,
> the way you present wxPython is really outstanding,
> the wxPython demo is really a beautiful example,
> and AFAIK a real exception in the open source world.
> I installed it on about 5 different machines without any problem, my
> compliments !
Thanks!
--
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org Java give you jitters? Relax with wxPython!
klaas.holwerda
> Last year I tried to get a feeling of the need for open source
> versions of programs like LabView, and about 99% for the responders
> didn't see any benefit of such a program ( which amplifies my
> assumption of the ratio programmers / users, and even adds the
> question "for who are we making all these programs" ;-)
like this.
But RoboPro ( there is a demo), is based mainly on wxArt2D. And really
is in a style like VEE etc.
http://www.fischertechnik.com/html/computing-software.html
http://home.wanadoo.nl/pa3evz/ROBOPro.htm
The problem is to find enough programmers to make such things happen as
open source.
Klaas
Stef Mientki
klaas.holwerda wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
>> Last year I tried to get a feeling of the need for open source
>> versions of programs like LabView, and about 99% for the responders
>> didn't see any benefit of such a program ( which amplifies my
>> assumption of the ratio programmers / users, and even adds the
>> question "for who are we making all these programs" ;-)
> I don't agree with you.
fine !
> It is just very complicated to achieve something like this.
Now I disagree, it's complicated to build good basic building blocks,
like wxArt2D, of which you're the writer I believe, so you must know how
complex that is. But once having such a system and a number of others
(all available) the next step is far less complicated.
> But RoboPro ( there is a demo), is based mainly on wxArt2D. And really
> is in a style like VEE etc.
Yes, but I couldn't find out that RoboPro is open source,
I guess again "a guy named Bill" that has commercial success with free
products of others ;-)
The last time I saw VEE was about 20 years ago,
so I just looked at some recent demos ....
... no change at all.
There are many programs like RoboPro, I know at 5 open source versions
in Python, more than 10 (mostly) open source versions in Delphi, ...
... but just like RoboPro, they are all made just for one purpose.
So the unbeatable winner is still LabView :-(
>
> http://www.fischertechnik.com/html/computing-software.html
> http://home.wanadoo.nl/pa3evz/ROBOPro.htm
Very weird, so I'll tell this just in Dutch:
Eén van de meest belangrijke kenmerken van Visual Programming Languages is
dat de extra dimensies, ontstaan door kleur, vorm en (onderlinge) positie,
worden aangewend om te verduidelijken en sneller interpreteerbaarder te
maken,
bovenstaande website weet dit volledig om te draaien ;-)
btw thanks for the work in wxArt2D, maybe it will be available in Python
one day so I can really use it.
cheers,
Stef
Klaas Holwerda
> Yes, but I couldn't find out that RoboPro is open source,
Not.
> I guess again "a guy named Bill" that has commercial success with free
> products of others ;-)
No he also improved wxArt2D a lot! But to bad he left.
But you are right, many mister Bill's around.
>
> There are many programs like RoboPro, I know at 5 open source versions
I would be interested in them? Maybe send a few links to me ?
> So the unbeatable winner is still LabView :-(
But is that open source?
> btw thanks for the work in wxArt2D,
Thanks.
Klaas
--
Unclassified
Lars Uffmann
Stef Mientki wrote:
> As others allready mentioned, VEE or LabView (both are not M$ related
> ;-) sounds like the best solution for your problem (at least at this
> moment).
We got LabView licenses here... However I am a C/C++ programmer at
heart, and I'd like to have a "one in all" solution for tools as well as
displays :)
> I've no real explanation for it, but I expect the most obvious
> explanation for it, seems that the open source world is a world of
> programmers, not a world of users.
My first thought was the one you were pointing out later on - who are we
programming for, then? ;) I mean - what's with all those nice little
tools out there... mIRC, a bunch of FTP clients, XVI32, WinRAR, kopete,
miranda... what did THEIR programmers use as a development environment?
Thank you anyways for the encouragement on the sizers - and also thanks
to Riccardo for your points of view - those kind of things sort of help
on the motivational side... ;)
Best Regards,
Lars
Lars Uffmann
Kit Bishop wrote:
> If its any consolation, I know exactly where you are coming from.
> [..]
> I find myself using nested sizers quite a lot. Some important factors
> to bear in mind are:
Thank you for your inputs - yes, it helps to know that someone who came
from a similar background was able to accommodate with the sizers
concept ;) However, I think those should be pointed out on any wxWidgets
introduction as the first and most important difference to other GUI
builders - that would probably reduce the confusion somewhat for people
new to wxw.
> I use wxFormBuilder (version 3.0.50 Release Candidate 3 - it seems
3.* was where dragging and dropping in the tree was introduced, right?
I'll upgrade to that, then :)
> Like others, I would encourage you to persevere with sizers. If you
> find wxFormBuilder not to your taste, I have heard good things about the
> other GUI designers that have been mentioned - try them and see which
> most fits your needs, likes and pocket :-)
Pocket isn't a problem as I'm not the one paying it :) But of course I'd
like to use something that I can continue using for private purposes.
Anyways - since the sizers concept is a wxw approach and not specific to
wxFB, I guess wxFB is doing a fine job.
Best Regards,
Lars
Lars Uffmann
>> I haven't even managed to place 2 controls next to each other yet - the
>> best I've managed to come up with is different sizers below each other.
> Create a horizontal box sizer and just add 2 controls to it. (Box sizer,
> change to horizontal, click on controls in toolbar to add)
>> This area gets divided 30:70 ... instead: nada
> For first control set the factor to 30, for the second one to 70. I
> believe it is called 'option' or something like that in wxFB. Both
> controls have to set to expand.
It's called "proportion" - HUGE thanks! This was exactly what I was
looking for! I'm starting to get somewhere :D
> Please note that wxFB is great once you know all about sizers. It is not
> a good tool to learn about them.
Maybe when I'm sorta done, I'll write a tutorial ;)
> Very simple. You need wxNotebook or some of related *book classes.
Oh - I wasn't speaking about the tab riders, rather the contents in
there. But with the proportion thing, I think I know how to do it :)
> http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net/
Thank you again!
Have a nice day!
Lars
Stef Mientki
>
>>
>> There are many programs like RoboPro, I know at 5 open source versions
>
> I would be interested in them? Maybe send a few links to me ?
Orange: http://magix.fri.uni-lj.si/orange/screenshots.asp
Elefant: https://elefant.developer.nicta.com.au/
Vision: http://www.scripps.edu/~sanner/python/viper/index.html
Pyphant:
http://www.fmf.uni-freiburg.de/service/Servicegruppen/sg_wissinfo/Software/Pyphant
Pylab_Works:
http://oase.uci.kun.nl/~mientki/data_www/pylab_works/pw_animations_screenshots.html
Enthought with Traits: nothing to find on the web yet, but they
promised to show it soon
and then there a number of CAD packages, which I didn't study
For Delphi I've lost my links, (since a year I'm totally addicted to
Python ;-), but a still a few I can remember:
Diagram Designer: http://logicnet.dk/DiagramDesigner/
OpenWire: http://www.mitov.com/html/openwire.html
JALcc (based on Diagram Designer):
http://oase.uci.kun.nl/~mientki/data_www/pic/jalcc/help/jalcc_vector_editor.html
with a FSM code generator:
http://oase.uci.kun.nl/~mientki/data_www/pic/jalcc/help/state_machine.html
>
>> So the unbeatable winner is still LabView :-(
>
> But is that open source?
No,
but there is already Scilab + SciCos,
and that's why I started PyLab_Works ;-)
cheers,
Stef