Is this still alive???
Jason Stevens
poor... Can you use the Darwin XNU on NeXTSTEP??
Am I out of my mind? Should I just let this OS Die??????????
TIA
Dave
built, and in fact, if you look at Mac OSX, you'll probably find some
distinct similarities. It can be a useful system. You just have to learn
it.
-Dave
"Jason Stevens" <jst...@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote in message
news:106qong...@corp.supernews.com...
Timberwoof
"Dave" <dpa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> if you look at Mac OSX, you'll probably find some
> distinct similarities.
I just bought a NeXT slab and installed NeXTstep 3.3 on it. There is
much in OS X that is directly descended from NeXTstep/OpenStep. Panther
has even more.
Some features that OS X inherited, I'm glad were made more Mac-like:
- I can open as many Finder windows as I want. NeXT permits only one
file manager window.
- I don't have to use NetInfo. NeXT really really wants me to set up
NetInfo. (Although it would be interesting to see what happens when OS X
and NeXT boxes on the same network using NetInfo.)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
http://www.timberwoof.com
Baloney Detection Kit: http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
ober...@uni-essen.de
Hello,
I'd like to 'enlighten' your feelings even more a little bit :-),
as
:[...]
: Some features that OS X inherited, I'm glad were made more Mac-like:
: - I can open as many Finder windows as I want. NeXT permits only one
: file manager window.
no, that's not true. You can have as many different file-manager-windows
as you like. Every one with it's own apperance (browser, symbol. list)
and it's own shelf and shelf-space. Only the 'first' one of those is
'different' in that you can't close it (no 'x'-button) and that the first
position in the shelf is always occupied by your home-directory folder.
Also, this one is always 'reset' to point to the home-directory. All other
windows stay as they were when you log out. And of course you can copy/
move/link files between them. Just open them with 'Viewers/NewView' (I
think, my setting here is in German, and I don't want to log out to get
Netinfo's the English one) in the Workspace-Manager.
The thing that you don't have is 'different desktops'.
: - I don't have to use NetInfo. NeXT really really wants me to set up
: NetInfo. (Although it would be interesting to see what happens when OS X
: and NeXT boxes on the same network using NetInfo.)
Yes, you have to :-). Meaning, that even a machine, that doesn't make
use of the (other) advantages of netinfo still uses the netinfo database
for it's local settings, and it is a hell of a job to remove it from
the system. I'm not sure as in howfar the system will mix and mingle
within a 'parent domain'. Probably not so good. MacOS X seems to do a
lot of things 'different', especially in namespace (apple.whatnot.entry),
where NS/OS was flat, having more of a /Topdomain/...
/parentdomain/localdomain/entry structure. But let a MacOS X owner
(and expert) tell you (and me) about this.
Greetings,
Ruediger Oberhage
--
H.-R. Oberhage
Mail: Univ. Duisburg-Essen E-Mail: ober...@Uni-Essen.DE
Fachbereich 7 (Physik) rued...@Theo-Phys.Uni-Essen.DE
Campus Essen, S05 V07 E88
Universitaetsstrasse 5 Phone: (+49) 201 / 183-2493
45141 Essen, Germany FAX: (+49) 201 / 183-4578
Jason Stevens
(The IO totally blows, but hey it works!), Im thiking about getting a AMD64
3000 with 512meg of ram to do this thing half justice... So far I managed
to find a Digital nic (like the one in virtual pc), the mother board, and
the memory... the CPU is on it's way :D
My next (HA!) dumb question is the IDE HD size... Im guessing it wont
support a 300gig disk, but what are it's limits? Does anyone have any
experence booting NeXT STEP natively on the new / fast mother boards??
TIA
Jason
<ober...@uni-essen.de> wrote in message
news:c5m0e1$35n2b$1...@ID-168922.news.uni-berlin.de...
Jason Stevens
anyways) so I booted my AMD 64 off the floppies native, and it came up to
the installer! The big thing that I noticed is that the 160gig IDE disk I
have was recoginzed as a 3 gig disk... sigh I guess this is a real
limitation? Its almost hard to belive its so absurdly small, but then again
it was 1992, and I think I had like a 80 med ide & a 600 meg scsi 1 disk
back then....
I'll have to see about booting this natively as quake gives me a bus error,
but its sooo sloooow to debug thru VPC... but hey Doom runs *GREAT* :P
Jason
"Jason Stevens" <jst...@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote in message
news:107u67k...@corp.supernews.com...
Timberwoof
ober...@uni-essen.de wrote:
> Timberwoof <timbe...@stimpberawoofm.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to 'enlighten' your feelings even more a little bit :-),
> as
>
> :[...]
> : Some features that OS X inherited, I'm glad were made more Mac-like:
> : - I can open as many Finder windows as I want. NeXT permits only one
> : file manager window.
>
> no, that's not true. You can have as many different file-manager-windows
> as you like. Every one with it's own apperance (browser, symbol. list)
> and it's own shelf and shelf-space. Only the 'first' one of those is
> 'different' in that you can't close it (no 'x'-button) and that the first
> position in the shelf is always occupied by your home-directory folder.
> Also, this one is always 'reset' to point to the home-directory. All other
> windows stay as they were when you log out. And of course you can copy/
> move/link files between them. Just open them with 'Viewers/NewView' (I
> think, my setting here is in German, and I don't want to log out to get
> Netinfo's the English one) in the Workspace-Manager.
I think that my posting that message led me to then discover the New
command in the menu.
> The thing that you don't have is 'different desktops'.
>
> : - I don't have to use NetInfo. NeXT really really wants me to set up
> : NetInfo. (Although it would be interesting to see what happens when OS X
> : and NeXT boxes on the same network using NetInfo.)
>
> Yes, you have to :-). Meaning, that even a machine, that doesn't make
> use of the (other) advantages of netinfo still uses the netinfo database
> for it's local settings, and it is a hell of a job to remove it from
> the system. I'm not sure as in howfar the system will mix and mingle
> within a 'parent domain'. Probably not so good. MacOS X seems to do a
> lot of things 'different', especially in namespace (apple.whatnot.entry),
> where NS/OS was flat, having more of a /Topdomain/...
> /parentdomain/localdomain/entry structure. But let a MacOS X owner
> (and expert) tell you (and me) about this.
>
> Greetings,
> Ruediger Oberhage
I think I will set up my NeXT as a NetInfo server just to see what it
does for me. I found it interesting that there was no way to set the ip
address of the DNS server without creating a resolv.conf file.
ober...@uni-essen.de
: I was feeling brave (and I needed to reboot XP for more service packs
: anyways) so I booted my AMD 64 off the floppies native, and it came up to
: the installer! The big thing that I noticed is that the 160gig IDE disk I
: have was recoginzed as a 3 gig disk... sigh I guess this is a real
: limitation? Its almost hard to belive its so absurdly small, but then again
: it was 1992, and I think I had like a 80 med ide & a 600 meg scsi 1 disk
: back then....
I can't speak for Virtual PC, I'm running either native or experimenting
with VMware Workstation, but as far as file-system-limits are concerned,
the following data seem to have been estabished [as I write them here,
they're for OPENSTEP 4.2, but I believe they're valid for NEXTSTEP 3.3,
too, may be with the exception of the (E)IDE-driver which was under
heavy development, then; but since both driver lines NS and OS were
developed in parallel after that until there was no more support, you
should be safe if you get the 'latest' drivers from the repositories.]:
There will be one and only one NS/OS PC-/DOS-like-partition (as opposed
to UNIX/Linux/BSD 'slices') recognized per physical drive; the first one
should you 'install' more than one. But you don't have to PC-partition a
drive at all, leaving it 'flat' for the slices. In that case you'll lose
any space that you can't use with NS/OS.
A partition or slice is certainly safe, as long as it is smaller than
2GB (all data based on base 2, so 1 kB equal 1024 byte). Many people
think, that 4GB is ok, too. With EIDE, though, this seems to be the
limit. With SCSI, your limit seems much larger. Up to 8GB have been
reported, but I'm not so sure that it is a safe bet. You can have up
to 7 'slices' or unix-like partitions (e.g. within a PC-partition).
The 7 unix-partitions are hda - hdg for EIDE, and sda - sdg for SCSI.
hdh or sdh is the 'whole' drive. I would assume that there is at least
a 128GB limit, coming from most PC mainboards until recently.
So when you play it safe and arange for 7 unix-partitions at 2GB you'll
have a 14 GB total. With VPC or VMware, the easy way out is, of course,
to just 'install' more (virtual) drives. When you play it unsafe, 7x8GB
or 56GB (maybe even more) should be possible.
With nfs, I yet have to face a capacity limit. So when you go 'over the
net' (even on a single machine) you can have a lot of space. I haven't
tried, but would assume that 128GB would be a natural limit of nfs v2,
which NS/OS uses [anyone here really 'knows' about this?].
: I'll have to see about booting this natively as quake gives me a bus error,
: but its sooo sloooow to debug thru VPC... but hey Doom runs *GREAT* :P
With VMware Workstation version 3, it was very important to choose
'Linux' as the targeted 'guest' system, not 'Other'. The EIDE-HD wouldn't
work properly, and I needed it at least for the (pseudo) CD-ROM drive.
Maybe VPC has some similar quirks.
Happy trying.
Greetings,
Ruediger
Jason Stevens
home like the fevered person I am, and went & formated the poor drive with 1
gig MS-DOS & 2 gig NeXT... Next did the 1st boot without issues, went to
the 'graphical text mode' and finished that no problem!
However on the 2nd boot, it comes up to the GUI & hangs... Sigh.it sits
there asking for the EIDE driver disk but no num-lock action or mouse
movement.... just dead... Also it *totaly* trashed my clock to 2094 :P
Guess it isn't that Y2k compliant until service pack 3 is loaded... Im
going to see if I can find a S3 or worse video card.. somehow Im guessing my
ATI 9600 is freaking it out....
What kind of config do you have on your native PC?
<ober...@uni-essen.de> wrote in message
news:c5obnd$3mqac$1...@ID-168922.news.uni-berlin.de...
ober...@uni-essen.de
: [...]
: However on the 2nd boot, it comes up to the GUI & hangs... Sigh.it sits
: there asking for the EIDE driver disk but no num-lock action or mouse
: movement.... just dead... Also it *totaly* trashed my clock to 2094 :P
: Guess it isn't that Y2k compliant until service pack 3 is loaded... Im
: going to see if I can find a S3 or worse video card.. somehow Im guessing my
: ATI 9600 is freaking it out....
When it hangs, it probably expects a diskette with the (update) EIDE-driver
on it. The same one that was used to first install the operating system.
The system should react on (e.g.) the <return>-key, though, and be it with
just a complaint about the missing driver disk.
Yes, for the date/time problem it is a good idea to install the update,
especially since it is called a year-2000-update :-).
This one will also bring with it at 'VESA'-driver, not available with the
system before. If your card offers (valid) VESA 2.0 modi, you can use
them with that driver without a new video card. You have the disadvantage
of a (fixed) 60Hz screen refresh with this driver, though; with an LCD this
won't matter, with a CRT-monitor, it can be bad (for the eyes).
: What kind of config do you have on your native PC?
The PCs that we natively run NS/OS on, were specifially bought with the
operating system in mind. Thus they have an ISA slot for a SoundBlaster
ISA card. The Board nearly doesn't matter, as does the CPU. NS/OS takes
'anything'; we have ASUS, MSI and GigaByte boards. SCSI here is Adaptec
('up' to 2940 cards), Ethernet is Intel- or DEC-chip based (at the end
also mostly Adaptec cards, iirc, as Adaptec bought that card-series from
Intsl). All SCSI-drives up to 9GB could be made running, sometimes with
a little 'tuning' or an /etc/disktab entry. Keyboard and Mice are PS/2.
As graphic cards, we often ended up with Matrox (Millennium (I) and Millen-
nium II at that time), as they delivered the best picture-quality (true-
colour, 'high'-resolution, flicker-free images). With "Mirko's" newer driver,
even Matrox 200, 400, and 450 cards are said to be running fine.
By the way: Coming up to the GUI and then hanging, for my computers is
almost certainly a non-workung ISAPnP-configuration, i.e. the ISA-sound-
card. If there is a single parameter wrong or the card doesn't act as
expected, a 'spinning disk'-cursor at that point is typical.
You can always (ATL+NumLock) reboot and start the system with the
"config=Default" set-up, alter the setting (or temporarily remove the
driver) there and then restart.
Another thing that one has to pay attention to, is that the entry for
mounting the root-filesystem '/' in /etc/fstab points to the correct
disk. It is always wrong, when you install to a 'second' disk (/dev/hd1a
or /dev/sd1a), as it will have an entry for the 'first' one (hd0a or sd0a)
there. Booting into single-user mode ("-s") and adjusting the entry will
help.
Greetings,
Ruediger