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some Experience with webMathematica
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Andre Koppel
Jun 2, 2012, 5:43:11 AM6/2/12
to
Hi all,
I am playing around with webMathematica. It's a nice package to
integrate the power of Mathematica into a dynamic web-Site.
Even if standard mathematica constructs can be embedded
into the side with special tags, often the constructs must
be rewritten because the wrapper engine runs into trouble by
some characters (should be nice if there is any information
about these). My main problem is integrating dynamically live
3D objects. Theoretically it works. There are a great amount
of simple examples that demonstrate how to integrate full working
3D-Objects. But there are several limitations with 3D-Mathematica
functions that won't work. For example Histogram3D can't be interpreted.
Meanwhile I got the feedback from Wolfram that there
are limitations (not written within the manual).
It would be nice if there is anybody who has played around with
these things and who knows what's working and what's not working.
I have not found any list of 3D functions supported by webMathematica.
What I have found not working:
Histogram3D
Sectochart3D
GraphPlot3D
Possibly these functions can be made running by finetuning the
parameters, but without any error-documentation, this is really
hard.
I am happy if someone has tried this.
Kind regards to all.
Andre
I am playing around with webMathematica. It's a nice package to
integrate the power of Mathematica into a dynamic web-Site.
Even if standard mathematica constructs can be embedded
into the side with special tags, often the constructs must
be rewritten because the wrapper engine runs into trouble by
some characters (should be nice if there is any information
about these). My main problem is integrating dynamically live
3D objects. Theoretically it works. There are a great amount
of simple examples that demonstrate how to integrate full working
3D-Objects. But there are several limitations with 3D-Mathematica
functions that won't work. For example Histogram3D can't be interpreted.
Meanwhile I got the feedback from Wolfram that there
are limitations (not written within the manual).
It would be nice if there is anybody who has played around with
these things and who knows what's working and what's not working.
I have not found any list of 3D functions supported by webMathematica.
What I have found not working:
Histogram3D
Sectochart3D
GraphPlot3D
Possibly these functions can be made running by finetuning the
parameters, but without any error-documentation, this is really
hard.
I am happy if someone has tried this.
Kind regards to all.
Andre
jurasea
Jun 5, 2012, 4:53:36 AM6/5/12
to
Depends on version combinations (webMathematica & Mathematica) you use
to get results, also it's not clear what form you wish to get output
(Java, 2D image, Flash/Manipulate , etc.) webMath versions tends to be
better compartable with certain Mathematica builds (4 instance like
3.0.0 or 3.0.1 + 7, and another set is webMath=3.1 and Math=8.0.4)..
Fine-tuning closely depends on network bandwidth (complex Java
surfaces won't work on laggy connections) and MathKernel->Java->Web
interface (mostly Apache/Tomcat I guess) settings (timeouts, etc..)
If you'll specify ur versions, your expectations & provide MSP scripts
- perhaps we can check if desired result can be achieved.
to get results, also it's not clear what form you wish to get output
(Java, 2D image, Flash/Manipulate , etc.) webMath versions tends to be
better compartable with certain Mathematica builds (4 instance like
3.0.0 or 3.0.1 + 7, and another set is webMath=3.1 and Math=8.0.4)..
Fine-tuning closely depends on network bandwidth (complex Java
surfaces won't work on laggy connections) and MathKernel->Java->Web
interface (mostly Apache/Tomcat I guess) settings (timeouts, etc..)
If you'll specify ur versions, your expectations & provide MSP scripts
- perhaps we can check if desired result can be achieved.
jurasea
Jun 5, 2012, 4:54:06 AM6/5/12
to
P.S. There actually are debug logs for both, Mathematica/MSP kernel
and Apache/Tomcat
and Apache/Tomcat
Yuri Fadeev
Jun 9, 2012, 3:08:35 AM6/9/12
to
Dude, some user-interface exp, ur ZeitenHistDynamic.jsp (and Unsaltz
and Salden) scripts part:
MSPManipulate[gr[w,z],{{w,30,"Ansicht"},0,360,5},{{z,
2,"Ebene"},-100,100,0.25},OutputSize->{680,680}]
better to be adjusted for "z" variable range, turning around positive
Histogram3D is pointless, 0<z<10 is absolutely enough, also for such
big range user actually can't tune anything less than with step =1
Huh, no one seems can make this Live3D Java-based part working as
expected.. , only simple surfaces work :\ ..
and Salden) scripts part:
MSPManipulate[gr[w,z],{{w,30,"Ansicht"},0,360,5},{{z,
2,"Ebene"},-100,100,0.25},OutputSize->{680,680}]
better to be adjusted for "z" variable range, turning around positive
Histogram3D is pointless, 0<z<10 is absolutely enough, also for such
big range user actually can't tune anything less than with step =1
Huh, no one seems can make this Live3D Java-based part working as
expected.. , only simple surfaces work :\ ..
Andre Koppel
Jun 12, 2012, 2:59:37 AM6/12/12
to
Am 05.06.2012 10:53, schrieb jurasea:
> Depends on version combinations (webMathematica& Mathematica) you use
3.1. If you like, you may download the example from:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30112125/Live3D/Timelog_Live3D.zip
The archive contains an example data-file, the original Notebook and the
webMathematica .jsp file.
The description is written in german, but this shouldn't be a problem,
evreryone who is using mathematica should be able to read the code.
I have tried everything with Histogram3D-options to simplify the
rendering. Nothing has helped, There are some parts (unknown) within
the resulting graphics that prevend MPLive3D from rendering.
If you have an idea to solve the problem, I am happy to hear about.
Kind regards
Andre
> Depends on version combinations (webMathematica& Mathematica) you use
> to get results, also it's not clear what form you wish to get output
> (Java, 2D image, Flash/Manipulate , etc.) webMath versions tends to be
> better compartable with certain Mathematica builds (4 instance like
> 3.0.0 or 3.0.1 + 7, and another set is webMath=3.1 and Math=8.0.4)..
> Fine-tuning closely depends on network bandwidth (complex Java
> surfaces won't work on laggy connections) and MathKernel->Java->Web
> interface (mostly Apache/Tomcat I guess) settings (timeouts, etc..)
>
> If you'll specify ur versions, your expectations& provide MSP scripts
> (Java, 2D image, Flash/Manipulate , etc.) webMath versions tends to be
> better compartable with certain Mathematica builds (4 instance like
> 3.0.0 or 3.0.1 + 7, and another set is webMath=3.1 and Math=8.0.4)..
> Fine-tuning closely depends on network bandwidth (complex Java
> surfaces won't work on laggy connections) and MathKernel->Java->Web
> interface (mostly Apache/Tomcat I guess) settings (timeouts, etc..)
>
> - perhaps we can check if desired result can be achieved.
>
There is a Tomcat 6.0335 running, Mathematica 8.0.4.0, webMathematica
>
3.1. If you like, you may download the example from:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30112125/Live3D/Timelog_Live3D.zip
The archive contains an example data-file, the original Notebook and the
webMathematica .jsp file.
The description is written in german, but this shouldn't be a problem,
evreryone who is using mathematica should be able to read the code.
I have tried everything with Histogram3D-options to simplify the
rendering. Nothing has helped, There are some parts (unknown) within
the resulting graphics that prevend MPLive3D from rendering.
If you have an idea to solve the problem, I am happy to hear about.
Kind regards
Andre
Yuri Fadeev
Jun 15, 2012, 3:28:41 PM6/15/12
to
Hi Andre,
I've webMath v.3.0.1 (not 3.1) but i guess there isn't big difference
regarding this issue.
Unfortunately all Java functionality for newer Mathematica functions
based on LiveGraphics3D seems to be a bit obsolete.. As I know
original package developer haven't released public versions since
2005~2006 and it was intended for Mathematica versions up to 6.0 (not
including).. later versions in accordance to description formally were
not fully supported. Wolfram did include assembly for my webMath dated
2006 on Java:1.6.0..
You can check for more details (including debugging options) here:
http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/~kraus/LiveGraphics3D/
or try to contact him directly if you wish.
Within examples there I haven't seen any which would include multiple
complex shape objects.
(Don't install live.jar (..webMathematica\Resources\applets\live.jar)
version 1.90 as it seems to me like is older than the one
webMathematica has build in / 1.92 or 1.93).
The only possible way I see to get a bit more control over it - is to
change some default/initialization options for Live3D
in ..webMathematica\WEB-INF\Applications\MSP\MSP.m because error
emerges on communication step between MSP assembly and live.jar ,
newer functions seems to pass more options from MathKernel which are
not filtered/adjusted accordingly via MSP interface (in transition to
primitives or via replacement rules/functions for Graphics3D options)
resulting in output failure (for instance BarChart3D or
SmoothHistogram3D with MSPLive3D will fail because without command
Ticks->None live.jar applet receives some junk it can't interpret
properly).
Perhaps it might be easier to work around this package/functions or
even reassemble another one (.jar) =)
With my version i've been disappointed with failure of some newer
functions, and yet omitting interactivity - it works like a charm via
standard 2D image injection to webpage.
P.S. since you can't really see live.jar applet full errors you still
can track/debug missed errors on mathematica FrontEnd {via
Needs["MSP`"]}, or WorkBench or check webMathematica.log/
KernelEvents.log in your ..Program Files\Apache Software Foundation
\Tomcat 7.0(version)\logs folder (although since as i can see u hv
Linux in ur /opt/apache-tomcat-6.0.35/logs)
I've webMath v.3.0.1 (not 3.1) but i guess there isn't big difference
regarding this issue.
Unfortunately all Java functionality for newer Mathematica functions
based on LiveGraphics3D seems to be a bit obsolete.. As I know
original package developer haven't released public versions since
2005~2006 and it was intended for Mathematica versions up to 6.0 (not
including).. later versions in accordance to description formally were
not fully supported. Wolfram did include assembly for my webMath dated
2006 on Java:1.6.0..
You can check for more details (including debugging options) here:
http://www.vis.uni-stuttgart.de/~kraus/LiveGraphics3D/
or try to contact him directly if you wish.
Within examples there I haven't seen any which would include multiple
complex shape objects.
(Don't install live.jar (..webMathematica\Resources\applets\live.jar)
version 1.90 as it seems to me like is older than the one
webMathematica has build in / 1.92 or 1.93).
The only possible way I see to get a bit more control over it - is to
change some default/initialization options for Live3D
in ..webMathematica\WEB-INF\Applications\MSP\MSP.m because error
emerges on communication step between MSP assembly and live.jar ,
newer functions seems to pass more options from MathKernel which are
not filtered/adjusted accordingly via MSP interface (in transition to
primitives or via replacement rules/functions for Graphics3D options)
resulting in output failure (for instance BarChart3D or
SmoothHistogram3D with MSPLive3D will fail because without command
Ticks->None live.jar applet receives some junk it can't interpret
properly).
Perhaps it might be easier to work around this package/functions or
even reassemble another one (.jar) =)
With my version i've been disappointed with failure of some newer
functions, and yet omitting interactivity - it works like a charm via
standard 2D image injection to webpage.
P.S. since you can't really see live.jar applet full errors you still
can track/debug missed errors on mathematica FrontEnd {via
Needs["MSP`"]}, or WorkBench or check webMathematica.log/
KernelEvents.log in your ..Program Files\Apache Software Foundation
\Tomcat 7.0(version)\logs folder (although since as i can see u hv
Linux in ur /opt/apache-tomcat-6.0.35/logs)
Andre Koppel
Jun 20, 2012, 3:52:01 AM6/20/12
to
Hi Yuri,
the problems are submitted to Wolfram research. Hopefully they will
do some coding to get the stuff running within this new (12 years old)
century. Meanwhile I got the information, that the original developer
of the Live3D-Java applet was dead. So the complete development has
droped down to zero. Often a project was connected to one person only
and if this person was gone, the project stops. I think, Wolfram must do
several cading/changes in the near future to get webMathematica
alive.
the problems are submitted to Wolfram research. Hopefully they will
do some coding to get the stuff running within this new (12 years old)
century. Meanwhile I got the information, that the original developer
of the Live3D-Java applet was dead. So the complete development has
droped down to zero. Often a project was connected to one person only
and if this person was gone, the project stops. I think, Wolfram must do
several cading/changes in the near future to get webMathematica
alive.
Dominik Hezel
Jun 22, 2012, 3:05:05 AM6/22/12
to
This all doesn't sound good. I am highly interested in webMathematica and thought that basically webMathematcia is as cdc only that you can also input and import user data. I just didn't try yet, as I have to secure the funding to afford the $10.000 or so to buy the package. Does anyone have a public webMathematica project? I would be very interested in trying it.
Gerry Flanagan
Jun 23, 2012, 4:25:10 AM6/23/12
to
I put these pages up several years ago. Nothing too fancy. Certainly no
import/export.
http://math.materials-sciences.com/webMathematica/MSC/start.html
Gerry F.
import/export.
http://math.materials-sciences.com/webMathematica/MSC/start.html
Gerry F.
Yuri Fadeev
Jun 29, 2012, 4:50:06 AM6/29/12
to
Dominik Hezel >>
1) You can't buy webMathematica, it mostly is kinda annual rent
contract. Or as they say (from my communication with them): "...the
only way we are able to license webMathematica is through a leased
licensing model which requires a sign one or 3 year contract..."
"...I would be very interested in trying it..."
2) Just request it via Wolfram sales/support team, they will provide
you with free trial versions (download/key) for both, Mathematica
+webMathematica (Amateur)..
The problem is their discriminative pricing model, it tends to
strongly depend on benefit organization might gain from package,
normally commercial usage license deployed on servers within US/Asia
markets (users+servers colocation) minimal cost would be ~400$ per
month just for webMathematica (+Mathematica license separately),
European market is at least +50%~+80% .. so your "$10.000" seems
hardly enough only for one year (including DC / server / OS /
Traffic / Servicing /Maintenance / Programming costs) ..
"..This all doesn't sound good. I am highly interested.."
3) live.jar (Java RE) or MSPLive3D functionality is only small part of
webMathematica, development of all other functions goes on.. even
MSPLive3D can be revived via "MSP.m" replacement rules adjustments of
live.jar assembly modifications (i gues it limited by license though,
and developer is out of reach :\ )
4) webMathematica as addon only helps you to provide web-interface or
establish communication link between mathematica and web to deliver
math kernel results via httprotocol, you can develop your own or use
build-in JLink/MathLink if it's ok with license agreement between your
organization and Wolfram.
Point is - there are so many much cheaper (free) alternatives for data
processing, charting, etc. a lot of API's have direct public access,
for instance google.. (SQL server chart controls, JavaScript,
ASP/.NET, VB, C#, SQL, etc.) .. Wolfram SW is sort of convenient tool
but it's also extremely high-cost instrument for ~90% of required
tasks.. i guess they are trying to extend market via injection into
educational institutions (by supplying cheap SW 4 students, academics
etc..), but with such pricing policy they can only keep small specific
market share.
5) I support opinion that Mathematica also became very power-consuming/
extensive SW and now asks 10 bits of computing resources for 1 bit of
data processing request... despite relatively cheap HW - it's not a
best option for bulk data analysis.
6) Public projects are available =) , All Amateur license sites should
be public, sample links are available on wolfram site
http://www.wolfram.com/products/webmathematica/examples/
Deployed sample of latest package for instance can be found here:
http://webmathematica.usd.edu/webMathematica/BrowseExamples/index.html
1) You can't buy webMathematica, it mostly is kinda annual rent
contract. Or as they say (from my communication with them): "...the
only way we are able to license webMathematica is through a leased
licensing model which requires a sign one or 3 year contract..."
"...I would be very interested in trying it..."
2) Just request it via Wolfram sales/support team, they will provide
you with free trial versions (download/key) for both, Mathematica
+webMathematica (Amateur)..
The problem is their discriminative pricing model, it tends to
strongly depend on benefit organization might gain from package,
normally commercial usage license deployed on servers within US/Asia
markets (users+servers colocation) minimal cost would be ~400$ per
month just for webMathematica (+Mathematica license separately),
European market is at least +50%~+80% .. so your "$10.000" seems
hardly enough only for one year (including DC / server / OS /
Traffic / Servicing /Maintenance / Programming costs) ..
"..This all doesn't sound good. I am highly interested.."
3) live.jar (Java RE) or MSPLive3D functionality is only small part of
webMathematica, development of all other functions goes on.. even
MSPLive3D can be revived via "MSP.m" replacement rules adjustments of
live.jar assembly modifications (i gues it limited by license though,
and developer is out of reach :\ )
4) webMathematica as addon only helps you to provide web-interface or
establish communication link between mathematica and web to deliver
math kernel results via httprotocol, you can develop your own or use
build-in JLink/MathLink if it's ok with license agreement between your
organization and Wolfram.
Point is - there are so many much cheaper (free) alternatives for data
processing, charting, etc. a lot of API's have direct public access,
for instance google.. (SQL server chart controls, JavaScript,
ASP/.NET, VB, C#, SQL, etc.) .. Wolfram SW is sort of convenient tool
but it's also extremely high-cost instrument for ~90% of required
tasks.. i guess they are trying to extend market via injection into
educational institutions (by supplying cheap SW 4 students, academics
etc..), but with such pricing policy they can only keep small specific
market share.
5) I support opinion that Mathematica also became very power-consuming/
extensive SW and now asks 10 bits of computing resources for 1 bit of
data processing request... despite relatively cheap HW - it's not a
best option for bulk data analysis.
6) Public projects are available =) , All Amateur license sites should
be public, sample links are available on wolfram site
http://www.wolfram.com/products/webmathematica/examples/
Deployed sample of latest package for instance can be found here:
http://webmathematica.usd.edu/webMathematica/BrowseExamples/index.html
Dominik Hezel
Jul 4, 2012, 3:26:56 AM7/4/12
to
Thanks for your detailed response!
The =809,175.00 is the number I got from Wolfram for what they call webMathematica Professional for Educational. Nothing was said that this would only be yearly.
I might try a trial, though, and as being an educational, non-commercial institution, I might qualify for the amateur version.
You suggestions using other APIs sound interesting - however, I currently have no clue and zero experience how this works. So this could only be something for the not so near future.
Thanks for the links!
.Dominik
The =809,175.00 is the number I got from Wolfram for what they call webMathematica Professional for Educational. Nothing was said that this would only be yearly.
I might try a trial, though, and as being an educational, non-commercial institution, I might qualify for the amateur version.
You suggestions using other APIs sound interesting - however, I currently have no clue and zero experience how this works. So this could only be something for the not so near future.
Thanks for the links!
.Dominik
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