rosin flux = vaseline? flux remover = rubbing alcohol?
Paul Oh
Hello to all,
Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
haven't tried it.
Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
Thanks,
Paul Oh
Ken
Alcohol = Yes
Ken Tyler
Beau Schwabe
For a FLUX paste, it might work... The trick with flux is not the "feel",
smell, or taste, but the ability to carry heat. Unless you are used to using
a specialized FLUX that is more like a heat activated acid.
Assuming that rubbing alcohol will dissolve Vaseline which I doubt, but if it
does then yes, you could probably use rubbing alcohol as a FLUX remover.
Another thing I have heard, is to use Lemon Juice as a FLUX, and water
for the remover. This does make sense, in a way, because of the sugar
content in the lemon juice increasing the ability of heat transfer. Any fruit
juice would probably work, but I would tend to lean toward concentrated
mixtures.
Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of liquid
flux. The Acetone by itself can be used to remove any flux residue when you
are done soldering and can be saved, to make another or add to a batch of
existing FLUX.
BTW) Rosin = Tree Sap ....So in a pinch, I suppose you could use Syrup!!!
...after all it DOES have a high sugar content. - grin
Thomas C. Sefranek
Beau Schwabe wrote:
> In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.990112...@moray.cs.columbia.edu>, Paul Oh <pa...@moray.cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
> >
> >Hello to all,
> >
> >Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> >Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> >haven't tried it.
Vaseline is an "oil" based grease, it has no flux properties.
(It WILL do the opposite job of contaminating your joint.)
> >Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> >Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> >rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
Most cleaners have alcohol in them, it doesn't seem to make Ozone holes.
> >Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> >cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
Most solders HAVE flux in their core.
>
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Paul Oh
> >
>
> For a FLUX paste, it might work... The trick with flux is not the "feel",
> smell, or taste, but the ability to carry heat.
I don't think so!
Flux is a heat activated CLEANER which allows a better solder wetting action.
Can you say de-oxidezer? Repeat after me, "Flux does NOT carry heat".
> Unless you are used to using
> a specialized FLUX that is more like a heat activated acid.
This part you got O.K.
> Assuming that rubbing alcohol will dissolve Vaseline which I doubt, but if it
> does then yes, you could probably use rubbing alcohol as a FLUX remover.
>
> Another thing I have heard, is to use Lemon Juice as a FLUX, and water
> for the remover. This does make sense, in a way, because of the sugar
> content in the lemon juice increasing the ability of heat transfer. Any fruit
> juice would probably work, but I would tend to lean toward concentrated
> mixtures.
>
> Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
> music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of liquid
> flux. The Acetone by itself can be used to remove any flux residue when you
> are done soldering and can be saved, to make another or add to a batch of
> existing FLUX.
>
> BTW) Rosin = Tree Sap ....So in a pinch, I suppose you could use Syrup!!!
> ...after all it DOES have a high sugar content. - grin
--
Thomas C. Sefranek WA1RHP
ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/41_Repeater/repeater.html
http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
Dennis Clark
: Hello to all,
: Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
: Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
: haven't tried it.
Weeeeelll. Remember that the basic use of flux is to clean the surface
in order to facilitate heat flow. This means that the flux has to be
some kind of reactant at that temperature for that medium. I have my
doubts that petrolium Jelly is much like tree sap in that regard. Resin
is basically a form of tree sap.
: Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
: Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
: rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
Rubbing alcohol is notoriously worthless as almost anything, its too
dilute to be much more than a mild skin astringent. Now if you would say
denatured alcohol, I would agree more - I use that as an almost universal
cleaner. It leaves no residue, disolves almost everything, its perfect.
DLC
--
------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Clark (970)898-4313 email d...@fc.hp.com |
| Be well, Do good work, stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor |
------------------------- CUT HERE -------------------------
Don
and cheap flux remover if used soon after you finish soldering. I get
good results using an old toothbrush with the alcohol. Seems to be
harder to remove if it sets up for a long time, then I have to use a
stronger cleaner, like some of the proprietary flux cleaners.
Don
bowman
Paul Oh wrote:
>
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
Conversely, since they feel the same, I can use Nokorode for some of
Steve W's not-quite-electronics projects?
> Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
Automotive carb cleaner will remove flux, as well as some components and
all those cheap little plastic knobs. Seriously, it does work, but be
careful with it.
DAVID KATZ
Beau Schwabe wrote in message <77fvgv$nil$1...@ionews.ionet.net>...
...
>Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
>music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of
liquid
>flux.
Cheaper, yes. Also very flammable and toxic.
Dave
GDS
>
>Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
>Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
>haven't tried it.
>
putting rosin flux on your chapped lips (or any other body parts)
just because they feel similar?
Steve Cothran
works well, stinks, is toxic, a carcinogen and quite flammable. It
also attacks plastics. Lately I use the "water-cleanup" fluxes.
Vaseline is best used to take the edge off a lonely night in the shop.
Married men will know what I a referring to.
Steve
Guenther Dietrich
<Pine.GSO.3.96.990112...@moray.cs.columbia.edu>, Paul Oh
<pa...@moray.cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
> Hello to all,
>
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
It's not the feel! The task of the flux is to clean the surface an is
activated by heat. It removes oxides and stain, so that the solder gets a
direct contact with the surface of the metal and an alloy consisting of a
mixture of tin and the component pin rsp. the lead on the PCB.
For soldering electronics components, you shouldn't use anything else than
the flux that is contained in the center of electronics-solder. You don't
neet to remove it.
If you use anything else (esp. any acid, e.g. HCl, you will damage your
circuit in the long term.
For soldering construction parts of your robot, you can use the flux
supplied by hardware stores. Clean the parts after soldering very well! If
any of these acidic stuffs remains on your parts, they will make holes in
the material in the long term.
>
> Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
Flux used for soldering electronics components consists of colophonium (I
think it is made of a special kind of small insects) which dissolves in
normal (ethylene) alcohol. So you can use it to clean PCBs after
soldering.
You can dissolve some colophonium (violine players use it for the bow of
their instrument - maybe you can get it cheap in a music store) in alcohol
and paint it onto the copper pads of your PCBs before soldering.
>
> Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
Best regards,
Günther
--
mailto:Guenther...@cryogen.com
Hiermit widerspreche ich der Nutzung oder Uebermittlung meiner Daten
fuer Werbezwecke oder fuer die Markt- oder Meinungsforschung gemaess
Par. 28 Abs. 3 Bundesdatenschutzgesetz.
Steve Dunbar
<pa...@moray.cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
...
>Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
...
Rubbing alcohol is a fairly dilute solution of isopropyl alcohol
(IPA). IPA is what we use at work to remove flux; it takes some
scrubbing to get a solder joint really clean and shiny, but it gets
the job done. I suspect that rubbing alcohol would be less effective,
but you could certianly give it a try. Drug stores do carry stronger
solutions of IPA which might work better, or you could try a large
paint store or hardware store.
-- Steve
Barry L. Ornitz
>Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
>haven't tried it.
Rosin flux is essentially crude abeitic acid. It dissolves many oxides in
preparation for soldering. Petroleum jelly is basically a hydrocarbon
grease with a molecular weight range placing it between heavy oils and
paraffin wax. It has no fluxing properties. However, it the joint is
exceptionally clean before soldering, petroleum jelly can prevent some of
the oxidation that occurs during soldering.
>Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
>Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
>rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
The 91% rubbing alcohol will work better than the standard 70% grade in
this application. It will work fairly well here. Commercial flux removers
are generally a mix of alcohols and a chlorinated solvent.
>Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
>cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
Go to a store that sells violins and buy a block of pine rosin. Dissolve
this in acetone and you have a paint-on flux. But be careful as acetone is
extremely flammable (but not exceptionally toxic like most chlorinated
solvents). A mixture of isopropanol and acetone will also work as a flux
remover, but be careful with certain plastics and paints. This mixture can
dissolve many plastics and harm finishes. But it removes flux quite well.
Acetone can often be bought in paint stores.
Dr. Barry L. Ornitz orn...@dpnet.net
Barry L. Ornitz
<Pine.GSO.3.96.990112...@moray.cs.columbia.edu>, Paul Oh
<pa...@moray.cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
>For a FLUX paste, it might work... The trick with flux is not the "feel",
>smell, or taste, but the ability to carry heat. Unless you are used to
using
>a specialized FLUX that is more like a heat activated acid.
Rosin flux is abeitic acid, and it does react with copper and tin oxides.
The flux has little to do with heat transfer. It is there only to keep the
surface clean.
>Another thing I have heard, is to use Lemon Juice as a FLUX, and water
>for the remover. This does make sense, in a way, because of the sugar
>content in the lemon juice increasing the ability of heat transfer. Any
fruit
>juice would probably work, but I would tend to lean toward concentrated
>mixtures.
It is the citric acid that does the work. The sugars only burn and leave a
gummy mess.
>Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
>music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of
liquid
>flux. The Acetone by itself can be used to remove any flux residue when
you
>are done soldering and can be saved, to make another or add to a batch of
>existing FLUX.
I do this myself and it works well. Just remember the extreme flammability
of acetone.
>BTW) Rosin = Tree Sap ....So in a pinch, I suppose you could use Syrup!!!
> ...after all it DOES have a high sugar content. - grin
Rosin is the pitch from PINE trees, not maples. Refined rosin has
virtually no sugars in it. Most rosin comes from a paper manufacturing
byproduct called tall oil.
Keith Wootten
100...@moray.cs.columbia.edu>, Paul Oh <pa...@moray.cs.columbia.edu>
writes
>
>Hello to all,
>
>Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
>Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
>haven't tried it.
One desperate Sunday (shops shut) I tried to use Vaseline as flux for an
emergency plumbing repair. It does not work, in fact it's worse than
using nothing.
Cheers
--
Keith Wootten
muddy
>
>
> >Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
> >music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of
> liquid
> >flux. The Acetone by itself can be used to remove any flux residue when
> you
> >are done soldering and can be saved, to make another or add to a batch of
> >existing FLUX.
>
> I do this myself and it works well. Just remember the extreme flammability
> of acetone.
Acetone fumes is also fairly to majorly harmful to breath in large or repeated
small amount. Make very sure the area you do your mixing, and cleaning in
is well ventilated.
Walter Gray
:In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.990112092914.26251A-
Beeswax or paraffin wax can be used for fluxing lead so they should
do for soldering, at least on clean copper. I used to pot small
electronic bits in histological grade paraffin wax and I remember I
had no trouble doing repairs after de-potting. If it was really
good quality wax you wouldn't need to remove it afterwards.
Walter
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for this stuff.
Gregg Raber
hard work. Most solder ( for eletronic needs) comes with a rosin or acid
core center. This is a good place for it. I have had acid about in
bottle form... until I had kids. Being inside the solder prevents you
from burning your self or someone else. Sometime I have used a small wire
brush and dental pick in a crunch. Did you know that the rosin
cleaner/asetone can be reclaimed? Most companies reclaim there cleaners.
Be VERY careful though because a lot if it is explosive in vapor
form....The company I would for doing robotic development used hot water
to drive off the cleaner and chill water to recover it in a still. Your
better of leaving it if you can't remove it though.
Paul Oh wrote:
> Hello to all,
>
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
>
> Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
>
> Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Oh
John Woodgate
<DAVE...@prodigy.net> wrote
**Please** note that I prefer **not** to receive an e-mail copy of
newsgroup posts:>...
>>Anyway, I make my own Liquid Flux with Rosin (Found at stringed instrument
>>music stores) and Acetone. It turns out being cheaper than bottles of
>liquid
>>flux.
>
> Dave
>
>
not so good) is better - still toxic and inflammable but in a different
class from acetone. Both rot your liver, but with alcohol (not
denatured) you enjoy it in the meantime!
--
Regards, John Woodgate, Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124.
OOO - Own Opinions Only. ERROR! OUT OF CORNFLAKES. Please check cereal port
configuration.
John Woodgate
Dietrich <Guenther...@cryogen.com> wrote
newsgroup posts:
cause asthma in some people. Be careful!
Dennis Clark
: Oh boy...Please don't attempt this. This will just make a mess of your
: hard work. Most solder ( for eletronic needs) comes with a rosin or acid
: core center. This is a good place for it. I have had acid about in
: bottle form... until I had kids. Being inside the solder prevents you
: from burning your self or someone else. Sometime I have used a small wire
: brush and dental pick in a crunch. Did you know that the rosin
: cleaner/asetone can be reclaimed? Most companies reclaim there cleaners.
: Be VERY careful though because a lot if it is explosive in vapor
: form....The company I would for doing robotic development used hot water
: to drive off the cleaner and chill water to recover it in a still. Your
: better of leaving it if you can't remove it though.
Electronics solder is resin core, acid core isn't for PC board work, its
too caustic usually. I tend to use a tooth brush for my cleaning of the
gunk. Companies reclaim their flux and cleaner because its considered
toxic waste and they can't just dump it, it must be properly disposed of.
Which is why most companies now use a water soluable flux that comes off
in the water bath after the wave, nothing to clean up. I have a roll of
it for my own work, Alpha Metals "Aquacore" solder will clean up with
just a toothbrush and water. Its WAY better than the old resin core, smelly
stuff! And yeah, we too would rather just leave it there undisturbed than
mess with cleaning it up and spreading the gunk all over after a repair...
DLC
--
------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Clark (970)898-4313 email d...@fc.hp.com |
| Hewlett Packard Ft. Collins NSD Ft. Collins CO 80525 |
Spehro Pefhany
> it for my own work, Alpha Metals "Aquacore" solder will clean up with
> just a toothbrush and water. Its WAY better than the old resin core, smelly
> stuff! And yeah, we too would rather just leave it there undisturbed than
> mess with cleaning it up and spreading the gunk all over after a repair...
It has other problems.. leakage on the PCB surface for one. Rosin flux is
generally trouble-free.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com
Fax:(905) 271-9838 (small micro system devt hw/sw + mfg)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John Piccirillo
> Personally I use Multicore fluxed solder, but the flux used is water
> soluble......so when I finish soldering up the board I just give it a brush
> with a wet nail brush and dry it again with a hairdryer, beautiful solder
> joints without the need for harsh flux removers.....I wouldn't ever trust an
> enamel wound coil again after being exposed to some of these substances.
I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
John-
Ken
> (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
Shouldn't that read ---
A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
--
Ken Tyler
Peter Hesketh
<j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk> writes
>There are now restrictions on the use of colophony resin, because it can
>cause asthma in some people
Including me. Just angle your PC so that the fan blows the fumes away
from your nose. (Unfortunately it also cools down the soldering iron
unless you have a thermostatically controlled one.)
--
Regards - Peter Hesketh, Mynyddbach, Mon.
Forty reasons why a dog is better than a woman: number 18
"Dogs never need to examine the relationship."
Alastair McGloan
Guenther Dietrich wrote in message ...
>
>> Hello to all,
>>
>> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
>> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
>> haven't tried it.
>activated by heat. It removes oxides and stain, so that the solder gets a
>direct contact with the surface of the metal and an alloy consisting of a
>mixture of tin and the component pin rsp. the lead on the PCB.
>For soldering electronics components, you shouldn't use anything else than
>the flux that is contained in the center of electronics-solder. You don't
>neet to remove it.
>If you use anything else (esp. any acid, e.g. HCl, you will damage your
>circuit in the long term.
>
>For soldering construction parts of your robot, you can use the flux
>supplied by hardware stores. Clean the parts after soldering very well! If
>any of these acidic stuffs remains on your parts, they will make holes in
>the material in the long term.
>
>>
>> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
>> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
>think it is made of a special kind of small insects) which dissolves in
>normal (ethylene) alcohol. So you can use it to clean PCBs after
>soldering.
>
>You can dissolve some colophonium (violine players use it for the bow of
>their instrument - maybe you can get it cheap in a music store) in alcohol
>and paint it onto the copper pads of your PCBs before soldering.
>
>>
>> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
>
>
>
>Günther
Personally I use Multicore fluxed solder, but the flux used is water
soluble......so when I finish soldering up the board I just give it a brush
with a wet nail brush and dry it again with a hairdryer, beautiful solder
joints without the need for harsh flux removers.....I wouldn't ever trust an
enamel wound coil again after being exposed to some of these substances.
Alastair.
Barry L. Ornitz
muddy wrote in message <369CBEF7...@ti.com>...
>Acetone fumes is also fairly to majorly harmful to breath in large or
repeated
>small amount. Make very sure the area you do your mixing, and cleaning in
>is well ventilated.
Acetone is not nearly as toxic as muddy imagines. A person can drink about
50 milliliters without much danger (but you have a HELL of a hangover).
Acetone has been removed from the SARA 313 list of hazardous materials
because its safety has been demonstrated for many years. The toxicity of
acetone is slightly less than isopropanol, in fact, and certainly less than
methanol. Still, you should use it with proper ventilation and care. It
has a very high vapor pressure and a low flash point, however, so one
should be especially careful not to use it around flame or sparks.
The human body destroys acetone quite effectively. In fact, diabetics
usually have detectable amounts on their breath at all times. I would not
have suggested acetone for this use without considering its safety and low
toxicity.
sky...@geocities.com
>Alastair McGloan wrote:
>
>
>> Personally I use Multicore fluxed solder, but the flux used is water
>> soluble......so when I finish soldering up the board I just give it a brush
>> with a wet nail brush and dry it again with a hairdryer, beautiful solder
>> joints without the need for harsh flux removers.....I wouldn't ever trust an
>> enamel wound coil again after being exposed to some of these substances.
>
Roger Doulis
Can cause corrosion of the soldered joint. Increasing resistance and/or
lead to failure of the joint.
--
Roger Doulis
(A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
Dept Civil Engineering (Clayton Campus) Ph 9905-4964
Monash University Fax 9905-1483
Wellington Rd.
Clayton Victoria 3168
Australia
Jeff Seeger
> snip <
> > I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
> >didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
>sky...@geocities.com wrote:
>
>Other then it looks ugly I am not sure
Rosin based fluxes are mild organic corrosive that is essentially
inactive
when cold and dry. This flux should be removed from the board after
soldering by washing with an appropriate solvent, but the flux is mild
enough
that not washing it off may not cause any harm for decades, even in
humid
climates. On the other hand, I've seen occasional examples of nasty
corrosion
or surprise leakage paths caused by failure to wash off the flux.
--
Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
James Meyer
<jpic...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
>didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
>
>John-
Many rOsin core fluxes are "activated" by additional organic
salts that make them more effective at their job of removing tarnish
from the metal parts that you are soldering together.
I sometimes remove the flux and sometimes leave it.
I once tried to use a small preamplifier that I had built a
couple of months before and it didn't work at all. It worked fine
when I finished it, but after laying around in an un-airconditioned
garage workshop for a while, the salts had leached out of the flux and
spread across the surface of the printed circuit board. I couldn't
see any change in the flux or the board, but when I scrubbed the board
with flux remover and dried it, it began working fine.
Leakage currents across the surface of the board were
upsetting the bias conditions and the preamp quit working.
Jim
Dennis Clark
: In sci.electronics.design Dennis Clark <d...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
: > it for my own work, Alpha Metals "Aquacore" solder will clean up with
: > just a toothbrush and water. Its WAY better than the old resin core, smelly
: > stuff! And yeah, we too would rather just leave it there undisturbed than
: > mess with cleaning it up and spreading the gunk all over after a repair...
: It has other problems.. leakage on the PCB surface for one. Rosin flux is
: generally trouble-free.
That's why we generally don't disturb it unless we can get a full bath.
DLC
--
------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Clark (970)898-4313 email d...@fc.hp.com |
Dennis Clark
: Roger Doulis wrote:
: > (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
: Shouldn't that read ---
: A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
<pedantic mode >
Nope, I think he got it right the first time. Transformation is a verb,
transform as used, is a noun. And its called rectangular coordinates,
not rectalinear coordinates, at least in all of my math books.
</pedantic mode>
Randy Eubanks
solder with "Clear Flux" that showed pictures of a board built with this
stuff compared to a board built with standard rosin flux showing how
better it looked with theirs if you didn't clean up afterwards! Yes boys
and girls, now your boards can look almost OK even if you are too lazy to
clean up after yourselves!
I have used solder with water soluble flux for years. I even bought a
large bottle of the liquid version on the flux that I apply with a small
squeeze bottle before I start on a connection. When the board is finished
I just head to the sink for a little warm water rinse with a little scrub
from a trimmed acid brush or last months toothbrush and I have the most
beautiful connections this side of a wave solder machine.
I clean my boards not because people look at them all the time, (Even
though they do...) but because I want my boards to be working 10-20 years
from now. My grandkids will still be playing with the robotic contraptions
I build because they are made to last. (At least the stuff that I do. I
offer no warranty on the modified servos <g>)
L8R:Randy
Jeff Seeger wrote:
> > >Alastair McGloan wrote:
> > snip <
> > > I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
> > >didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
>
Peter Hesketh
writes
>> (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
>
>Shouldn't that read ---
>A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
No! Firstly it's rectilinear not rectalinear, secondly it's
transformation not transfomation, and thirdly it should be: "A polar
bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transformation"
--
Regards - Peter Hesketh, Mynyddbach, Mon.
"Nothing is worse than an inaccurate pedant"
Will Smith Haddon
Liz
Don't splash it into your eyes.)
Wouldn't have considered Vaseline for any circuit board work. The object of
the flux is to clean the area during heating. This aids solder flow, since
solder naturally flows best wherever the flux cleaned.
I don't think Vaseline is known for its cleaning properties. Lemme know if I
wrong.
Paul Oh wrote in message ...
>
>Hello to all,
>
>Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
>Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
>haven't tried it.
>
>Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
>Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
>rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
>
>Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
>cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul Oh
>
>
Ken
Paul Oh wrote:
> Hello to all,
>
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
>
> Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
>
> Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Oh
Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
--
Ken Tyler
Ken
John Woodgate
<369DA1F5...@pacbell.net>, Ken <tyle...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
rectIlinear. transfoRmation.
John Woodgate
newsgroup posts.
<77l5ts$4nd$4...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, Dennis Clark <d...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
>Ken (tyle...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>: Roger Doulis wrote:
>
>: > (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
>
>: Shouldn't that read ---
>: A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
>
><pedantic mode >
> Nope, I think he got it right the first time. Transformation is a verb,
>transform as used, is a noun. And its called rectangular coordinates,
>not rectalinear coordinates, at least in all of my math books.
></pedantic mode>
>
Well, no, it's either a rectilinear bear or a Cartesian bear.
Jim H
<roger....@eng.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>> I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
>> didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
>>
>> John-
>
>Can cause corrosion of the soldered joint. Increasing resistance and/or
>lead to failure of the joint.
>
>--
>Roger Doulis
Two questions:
First, has anyone ever really seen any problem related to leaving a
good quality non-acid flux (I'm thinking of the stuff in Kester 44 for
example) on a solder joint? I haven't. And I've seen it left on many
types of PCBs for at least 20 years. The manufacturer also claims
it's ok to leave on. The only admonition I've heard about this that
seems to be supported by experience is that it can absorb moisture
from the atmosphere and alter the capacitance between traces, etc.
Once again, I've never personally seen an actual example of this
causing any problem with a working system, though.
Second, has anyone but me been dissatisfied with the results of some
of the "no clean" fluxes? I've found that the stuff I tried from
Multicore was useless. We bought four 1 lb rolls of solder with cores
of "no clean" thinking it would be great for touch-ups where we really
didn't want to reclean an entire board for one joint. I couldn't make
this stuff solder a tinned pin to a tinned board! It was less work
for our folks to use regular solder, and then do the cleaning. These
rolls are now used for paperweights around the shop. Expensive
paperweights! Serves as a good reminder to always test a sample of a
product before making a buy.. even a small buy, and even from a brand
that you've grown to trust.
I have used a low residue stuff from Kester, and it works just great.
But it does leave visible residue.
Any recommendations for a good no clean solder that actually works and
leaves little enough residue to make it truly "no clean'?
Thanks everyone.
Jim H.
jamesh at trib dot com
John Piccirillo
> > >didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
> Rosin based fluxes are mild organic corrosive that is essentially
> inactive when cold and dry. This flux should be removed from the board after
> soldering by washing with an appropriate solvent, but the flux is mild
> enough that not washing it off may not cause any harm for decades, even in
> humid climates. On the other hand, I've seen occasional examples of nasty
> corrosion or surprise leakage paths caused by failure to wash off the flux.
I see, thanks.
John-
Tony Williams
Ken <tyle...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Paul Oh wrote:
> > Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> > cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
> Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
Is that an example of dry humour? :)
--
Tony Williams.
Ken
Spehro Pefhany
> Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
At least it is water based rather than petroleum based, or so
I understand.
Dennis Clark
> In sci.electronics.design Ken <tyle...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
>
> At least it is water based rather than petroleum based, or so
> I understand.
Water _soluable_ not water based... This is REALLY a drift guys, I'm
checkin' out...
DLC
--
============================================================================
* Dennis Clark Aristocrat at heart d...@verinet.com www.verinet.com/~dlc *
* Be well, do good work, and stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor *
============================================================================
John Woodgate
newsgroup posts.
<369E8291...@pacbell.net>, Ken <tyle...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
Only for PTH, of course.
Joseph A. Legris
>
> <pedantic mode >
> Nope, I think he got it right the first time. Transformation is a verb,
> transform as used, is a noun. And its called rectangular coordinates,
> not rectalinear coordinates, at least in all of my math books.
> </pedantic mode>
>
"Transformation" is a verb? Now I'm completely confusioned!
- J. Legris
Walter Gray
:**Please** note that I prefer **not** to receive an e-mail copy of
:newsgroup posts.
:
:<77l5ts$4nd$4...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>, Dennis Clark <d...@fc.hp.com> wrote:
:>Ken (tyle...@pacbell.net) wrote:
:>: Roger Doulis wrote:
:>
:>: > (A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
:>
:>: Shouldn't that read ---
:>: A polar bear is a rectalinear bear after a coordinate transfomation. ?
:><pedantic mode >
:> Nope, I think he got it right the first time. Transformation is a verb,
:>transform as used, is a noun. And its called rectangular coordinates,
:>not rectalinear coordinates, at least in all of my math books.
:></pedantic mode>
:Well, no, it's either a rectilinear bear or a Cartesian bear.
After a big meal it would be a spherical polar bear...
Walter
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for this stuff.
Walter Gray
:Tony Williams wrote:
:
:> In article <369E8291...@pacbell.net>,
:> Ken <tyle...@pacbell.net> wrote:
:>
:> > Paul Oh wrote:
:> > > Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
:> > > cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
:> > Maybe K-Y would be a better choice ?
:>
:> Is that an example of dry humour? :)
:>
:> --
:> Tony Williams.
:
:Just thought it might be a slick trick :)
So you just had to slip it in somewhere...
Ken
It's a luborious process that generates a lot of friction from those recieving it.
--
Ken Tyler
John Woodgate
newsgroup posts.
<369F74...@sympatico.ca>, Joseph A. Legris <jle...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>Dennis Clark wrote:
>>
>> <pedantic mode >
>> Nope, I think he got it right the first time. Transformation is a verb,
>> transform as used, is a noun. And its called rectangular coordinates,
>> not rectalinear coordinates, at least in all of my math books.
>> </pedantic mode>
>>
>> DLC
>
> "Transformation" is a verb? Now I'm completely confusioned!
>
Don't worry about it. You might have to be hospitalized if you do.
Clifton T. Sharp Jr.
> "Transformation" is a verb? Now I'm completely confusioned!
YM "confusionisticated". HTH.
--
| Cliff Sharp | All relevant people are pertinent. |
| WA9PDM | All rude people are impertinent. |
| | Therefore, no rude people are relevant. |
| | --Solomon W. Golomb |
Roger Doulis
Jim H wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:50:00 +1100, Roger Doulis
> <roger....@eng.monash.edu.au> wrote:
>
> >> I've been using resin core for years and never removed the flux,
> >> didn't know that was desirable. Why does one remove the flux?
> >>
Having done soldering for military components, you tend to have quality
drummed into you.
As a result I clean all joints. The key is that you are using "a good
quality non-acid flux"
but I would tend to clean anyway.
--
Roger Doulis
(A polar bear is a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform).
Dept Civil Engineering (Clayton Campus) Ph 9905-4964
Ed Riggs
pigtail leads to automotive radio speakers after less than 10 years (probably
about 5). The flux used may have been a more active grade than your Kester-44.
The whole problem depends on temperature and humidity over time. The failures
I've seen are breaks in stranded wire just under the insulation adjacent to a
soldered joint. That's where the moisture wicks, and where the flux had wicked.
The manufacturers of high volume pcb's like telephone equipment depend on
no-clean flux. The secrete is to control the solderability of the parts to be
soldered, and the soldering technique (time & temperature, mostly). You can
render almost any lead unsolderable by almost any reasonable method (requires
acid or electrolytic etching and re-tinning) by storing the parts in an
atmosphere with high sulfur content, oxidizers, or with vapors of silicones, to
name a few.
Ed Riggs <rig...@spamx.usa.net> kill "spamx." to email
Roger Doulis wrote in message <36A245F0...@eng.monash.edu.au>...
denis...@my-dejanews.com
company called EnviroTech. The solvent is called Ensolv. The company is in
Alameda Ca. Our tests indicate that this solvent has cleaning power similar
to R12 (remember the good old days?) and is the only solvent we have seen
that quickly and completely removes no clean residue and flux rosin adhesives
etc. The solvent has a low ODP and is not scheduled to be banned. Call them
at 510-436-7603 and ask for Larry Clark.
Denis
In article <77j5ik$d2n$1...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>,
d...@fc.hp.com (Dennis Clark) wrote:
> Gregg Raber (gr32...@cosd.fedex.com) wrote:
> : Oh boy...Please don't attempt this. This will just make a mess of your
> : hard work. Most solder ( for eletronic needs) comes with a rosin or acid
> : core center. This is a good place for it. I have had acid about in
> : bottle form... until I had kids. Being inside the solder prevents you
> : from burning your self or someone else. Sometime I have used a small wire
> : brush and dental pick in a crunch. Did you know that the rosin
> : cleaner/asetone can be reclaimed? Most companies reclaim there cleaners.
> : Be VERY careful though because a lot if it is explosive in vapor
> : form....The company I would for doing robotic development used hot water
> : to drive off the cleaner and chill water to recover it in a still. Your
> : better of leaving it if you can't remove it though.
>
> Electronics solder is resin core, acid core isn't for PC board work, its
> too caustic usually. I tend to use a tooth brush for my cleaning of the
> gunk. Companies reclaim their flux and cleaner because its considered
> toxic waste and they can't just dump it, it must be properly disposed of.
> Which is why most companies now use a water soluable flux that comes off
> in the water bath after the wave, nothing to clean up. I have a roll of
> it for my own work, Alpha Metals "Aquacore" solder will clean up with
> just a toothbrush and water. Its WAY better than the old resin core, smelly
> stuff! And yeah, we too would rather just leave it there undisturbed than
> mess with cleaning it up and spreading the gunk all over after a repair...
>
> DLC
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> | Dennis Clark (970)898-4313 email d...@fc.hp.com |
> | Hewlett Packard Ft. Collins NSD Ft. Collins CO 80525 |
> | Be well, Do good work, stay in touch -- Garrison Keillor |
> ------------------------- CUT HERE -------------------------
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
outsh...@gmail.com
> Hello to all,
>
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
>
> Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
>
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
>
>
> Paul Oh
Friend of mine uses Vaseline in place of Flux on his plumbing job and tells me it works fine. Stinks a bit and of course is flammable but has been using it for over 15 years.
zuzharen...@gmail.com
zuzharen...@gmail.com
Biting Fish
> Hello to all,
> Just curious if anyone has tried using vaseline instead of rosin flux?
> Does it work? They have a similar feel... vaseline is cheaper, but I
> haven't tried it.
> Also, has anyone use rubbing alcohol instead of flux remover?
> Again, I haven't tried it. But flux remover seems to "feel" like
> rubbing alcohol (which again, is much cheaper).
> Or, does anyone know of cheaper alternatives (e.g. household/medicine
> cabinet products) to rosin flux and flux removers?
> Thanks,
> Paul Oh