What is the best way to copy an entire audio CD?
Mike Richter
some sufficiently non-standard disc organizations. But each
contributor (except for me - I haven't copied an audio disc) will
have his/her own recommendations and condemnations. And not all of
those recommended may be condemned by everyone else.
Mike
doug darnell wrote:
>
> I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
> I have Yamaha4416E, CDRWin, ECDC and Panasonic 588 for DAE. Is it best to
> extract an image? Then is there a binary edit that needs to be done? Tried
> this once and got a coaster. Any suggestions welcome.
>
> --
> DD :)*
> ------------------------------------------------------
> | "You're only as good as your audience." RJD 4/5/97 |
> ------------------------------------------------------
--
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
doug darnell
Bob Beaver
>I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
Gear replicator or Nero can do audio disk copies. Both available for
download.
Roger Schwenke
Neros extraction is terrible (I don't know if you would call making an
image copy "extraction" but ifyou use EAC to compare your Nero copy with
the original they will not be the same).
Gear replicator is perfect.
Roger
PC
12 January 1999
Added :
DiscJuggler v1.05.269 FTU (beta)
From the nfo file...
" DiscJuggler is now a really kicka$$ CDR Software..Auto detects all disc
formats, Direct duplication (CDROM to CDROM), Audio PQ support with on the
fly re - synchronization, Definable ram cache (NO buffer
underruns!)..Supports direct copy of : overlength CDs, mode-2/Playstation
CDs, Akai CDs , music, data, even multi- session CDs.
New Features are :
Copy non-standard formats (i.e. data,audio,audio,data) just as Nero and
includes support for newer formats like CD-TEXT. Now really outperforms
CDRWIN.. "
Julien Luscuere
Feurio! (try it for free: www.feurio.de) to make bit perfect audiocopies. All
you have to do is install Feurio, open cd-writer and select the Pana as
reading source. Put a blank cdr in the Yamy and press "brennen". If the source
cd is scratchy, old or dirty you shouldn't write "on the fly": Feurio will
then make an image on the HD.
Because the Pana is one of the few drives capable of doing perfect dae (use
the intensive test option in Feurio and you will find out), the copy will be
perfect too, including the subcode information. I've tested this in
Audiograbber by extracting the audiotracks from the original cd as well from
its copy. The .wav files of the same track proved to be absolutly bit
identical.
Julien
doug darnell wrote:
> I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
Stephen Marley
> Because the Pana is one of the few drives capable of doing perfect dae (use
> the intensive test option in Feurio and you will find out), the copy will be
> perfect too, including the subcode information. I've tested this in
> Audiograbber by extracting the audiotracks from the original cd as well from
> its copy. The .wav files of the same track proved to be absolutly bit
> identical.
So Fuerio automatically fixes the offsets introduced by reader and
writer so each generation is exactly identical to the next? I don't
think so myself.
--
ste...@memex.com
Bob Beaver
>Bob Beaver wrote:
>> In article <91628049...@iris.nyx.net>, ddar...@nyx10.nyx.net (doug
>> >I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
>>
>> download.
>
>Neros extraction is terrible (I don't know if you would call making an
>image copy "extraction"
Nero can do DAE. I haven't compared the wav files at the binary level for
accuracy, but it sounds flawless to my ears, which is the most important test.
Arny Krüger
doug darnell wrote in message <91628049...@iris.nyx.net>...
>I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
>extract an image? Then is there a binary edit that needs to be done? Tried
>this once and got a coaster. Any suggestions welcome.
>
It's a matter of hardware and software. Bit-perfect copies of audio CD's can
be accomplished with hardware and software as humble as Easy-CD Creator
Deluxe's copy program, a Creative labs CD4020E, and a Mitsumi 2x8 CD writer.
One tip: if there is an option to copy using your hard drive as intermediate
storage, you might want to use it as it eases the requirements on the rest of
the system.
Bob Beaver
Actually if you buy the Philips consumer CD-R machine, it could do bit for bit
perfect copies of CD's and you don't even need to own a computer to do that.
Stephen Marley
> It's a matter of hardware and software. Bit-perfect copies of audio CD's can
> be accomplished with hardware and software as humble as Easy-CD Creator
> Deluxe's copy program, a Creative labs CD4020E, and a Mitsumi 2x8 CD writer.
> One tip: if there is an option to copy using your hard drive as intermediate
> storage, you might want to use it as it eases the requirements on the rest of
> the system.
Arny this is nonsense. You wont get anything like binary exact copies
with a TAO burner since it introduces a 2 second gap between tracks.
Also none of your methods take into account the offsets introduced by
the reader/recorder combinations. The cumulative effect of these errors
would be plain to see on a Nth generation copy of the original cd for a
suitably large N.
There is but one way!
You need 3 things for binary exact copies - Exact Audio Copy 0.8 (out in
a week or so), Cdrwin and an MMC `Stream Is Accurate' DAO capable cd
reader/writer (eg Panasonic 7502/Teac R55S/Plextor).
The technique was fully described by Decius Aiacus in his recent post,
"Exact Audio Copy 0.8 Preview", so I wont go into too much detail.
However the jist of it is thus:
o Burn test wave file and rip back to disk with reader (could be same
machine as writer)
o Using a binary editor, work out combined reader/writer offset by
comparing original wav with ripped version
o Plug this offset value into EAC. (You only need to do this and
previous 2 steps once for your reader/writer combo)
o Now rip an entire cd as one bin file and generate cue sheet using EAC
o Use cue sheet and bin file to burn copy with cdrwin.
o Rip the copy to another filesystem.
o Verify that original bin and copy bin and cue sheets are identical
using fc /b
(ie each generation is *identical* to previous - so 1000th generation
copy is as good as 1st)
Do you get the significance of this? Do you understand why your
techniques are flawed and this is the one true way?! Silence does
indeed matter.
Christopher A. King
> I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
> I have Yamaha4416E, CDRWin, ECDC and Panasonic 588 for DAE. Is it best to
> extract an image? Then is there a binary edit that needs to be done? Tried
> this once and got a coaster. Any suggestions welcome.
I've had good results going directly from CD to CD using CDRWIN's disk
copy utility. Reader is a Plextor 12/20 and writer is a Ricoh MP6201S.
I'm not quite sure how much of the credit should go to either the 12/20
or CDRWIN for it, but I seem to get good quality DAE with no audible
problems (pops, clicks) in the copy. And not having to mess with an
intervening HD step makes the process quite efficient, even at 2X writing.
C.K.
$p@m H8er
disc to my Hard Drive, then record from Hard Drive to CD. If this is
new....do a test burn first, then do an active burn.
doug darnell wrote:
> I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
> I have Yamaha4416E, CDRWin, ECDC and Panasonic 588 for DAE. Is it best to
> extract an image? Then is there a binary edit that needs to be done? Tried
> this once and got a coaster. Any suggestions welcome.
--
Brian S. Graham Entertainment
Spam-Haters reply to: bsgraham at mindspring dot com
Visit my DJ/Audio site at http://bsgraham.home.mindspring.com
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joe
doug darnell wrote in message <91628049...@iris.nyx.net>...
>I'm looking for the method as well as the details & software suggestions.
>I have Yamaha4416E, CDRWin, ECDC and Panasonic 588 for DAE. Is it best to
>extract an image? Then is there a binary edit that needs to be done? Tried
>this once and got a coaster. Any suggestions welcome.
>
>
>--
Stephen Marley
> Would you happen to know the offset for the Teac 55s? Are you sure it is
> SIA? Just curious.
No on both counts. You'd need to test it with EAC unless someone
else here knows the details.
--
stephen
not
>You need 3 things for binary exact copies - Exact Audio Copy 0.8 (out in
>a week or so), Cdrwin and an MMC `Stream Is Accurate' DAO capable cd
>reader/writer (eg Panasonic 7502/Teac R55S/Plextor).
let us know when they get to version 3 or 4 :)
Stephen Marley
ch...@t-link.net wrote in message <36A2BF02...@t-link.net>...
>I tried to test it but I don't have one of the CD's listed in EAC to
>test the offset. Do you know of a way to test it, or just wait for 0.8?
If you rip in fast or secure mode, EAC will tell you if the drive has
an accurate stream. Alternatively, the fireburner program gives
detailed output on your drives' specifications, including whether
it has the accurate stream feature.
As for determinining the offset, you need a binary viewer or editor
such as hedit to inspect the wavs.
Decius Aiacus has posted detailed instructions on how to do this,
here is my take for 0.7 EAC.
a) Burn a test wav file and extract using your preferred reader
(maybe the writer in your case).
b) Visually inspect the original wav against the new one using a hex
editor to determine the offset. Just look for a the first non-zero
byte after the 56 byte wav header and subtract the address
of this byte from the address of the corresponding byte in the
original file. (You might need to do a little hex arithmetic)
c) Divide the value you get by 4 and insert into the samples offset
field in EAC. The offset difference must be exactly divisible by
4 or you've miscalculated somewhere,
d) Now that EAC is configured, make a range copy of an entire cd
with EAC, create a cue sheet for a single wav and burn with EAC.
You can now use the cdfs.vfx driver to compare the copy wavs
with the originals using fc /b, or alternatively, rip the copy to disk
without headers and compare with a similarly ripped original.
You should find that that the bin images (wavs without headers)
are identical (if the disc copied is undamaged).
Hope this helps, otherwise see Decius's original post for more detail.
--
stephen
Stephen Marley
not wrote in message <36a2fa21.24455305@news-server>...
I've found that EAC beta versions are more stable and bugfree than a lot
of the commercial packages out there (not naming names, but we all know
who).
Besides, no other ripper does what EAC does, even as beta.
--
stephen
Yves Belle-Isle
>
> I tried to test it but I don't have one of the CD's listed in EAC to
> test the offset. Do you know of a way to test it, or just wait for 0.8?
>
You can at least calibrate it so when it extract from a CD-R you
burned it return exactly the burned track:
1) Extract a wav file with EAC 0.7
2) Burn it 2 times using your Recorder in DAO mode
3) Extract the second copy with EAC 0.7
4) Using a binary editor, search the first non zero sample (4 bytes)
from the source wav file in the extracted wav file. You will find
an offset in byte. As EAC need an offset in samples (4 bytes long)
divide the byte offset by 4 and enter it as the value for your
reader offset.
In reality you entered your CD-R + CD-ROM combined offset, but it
will ensure than when you DAE from a CD-R you burned it will return
exactly the source wav.
________________________________________________________________________
Yves 46°23'35.6" N
Cap-De-La-Madeleine 72°33'20.9" O
Quebec, Canada Ele 57m WGS84
Aloke Prasad
Can you recommend a freeware binary editor suitable for this job?
Or, as I am getting a Plextor Ultraplex 32, will all UltraPlex 32 have
the same offset? In that case, someone who has gone through this can
send me the offset information for the Ultraplex ... please.
Aloke
--
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to send me e-mail
Yves Belle-Isle
As far as i tested each model of Plextor drive has a fixed offset,
don't know for the Ultraplex, but if somebody has calculated it
it will be good for you. You can use HEDIT, if i remember well you
can test it for 30 days. Don't remember the URL, but search for HEDIT
in place like http://wwww.winfiles.com
--
Mark
>Thanks for the info, now I need to try and figure out what it means.
>
>Aloha,
>Chuck
If you want to do it simpler and faster, try this:
Start Nero
Select Copy CD
Go
If you are unlikely do more than 3rd or 4th generation copies, then any small
offset errors are unimportant and virtually unnoticable.
If you are not satisfied with the results, then you may have to figure out how
to do it the exact way.
My real E-Mail address is:
markons at Hotmail dot com
A winner never quits and a quitter never wins
Gerry
keep going back to DiskJugglar. Yamaha 4416s writer, Pioneer DR-U03S
reader.