Jeff Arnold of Golden Hawk Technology.
Duratrude
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Here is the kind of "stuff" that Jeff Arnold sends to potential
customers that have concerns:
>From jar...@mainstream.net Fri Dec 26 08:08:44 1997
>Received: (from jarnold@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.7.6/8.7.3)
>id LAA07834; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:08:42 -0500 (EST)
>Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:08:42 -0500 (EST)
>From: Jeff Arnold <jar...@Mainstream.net>
>To: Duratrude <dura...@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: The Abyss
>In-Reply-To: <34a14d5c....@mail.tir.com>
>Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.97122...@fs1.mainstream.net>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
>> will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust you
>> and by proxy no longer trust your software. If your software causes a
>> problem with my system, you'll be hearing from my lawyers in the form
>> of a lawsuit. You are way too close to the edge of reality and the
>> abyss, get some help!
>> Rich
>
This is Jeff’s response to my above letter:
>
>Dear asshole, nobody asked you to put a pirated copy of the software
>on your system in the first place...
>
Dear very sick man (Jeff),
Who said that I pirated your software? Have you always been the
slanderous type? You do have demoware (which I have removed from my
system) available from your site at
"http://www.goldenhawk.com/download/"
Version 3.3D - Demo Version (445K)
"This demo is fully functional, but all recordings are restricted to
TEST mode only.
HTTP: CDRDEMO.EXE or FTP: CDRDEMO.EXE
Last updated on December 24, 1997"
The invitation to "Download a free demonstration copy" is in clear
view at
"http://www.goldenhawk.com/"
As I stated my last letter, IMO you are a sick man who is probably
approaching some kind of a nervous breakdown or something worse, If
you own a rifle and there is a clock tower in your city or town, turn
the rifle over to the police and move, do these things for your own
good and for the good of the public at large. When a grown man has to
resort to name calling the name calling speaks volumes about that man.
Get some help.
To the public at large, Jeff has been accused (not by me) of placing a
trojan type virus in his software, please be careful! Jeff and the
company Golden Hawk Technology produce CDROM Recording Software.
You can probably find his CDROM Recording Software by using search
engine keywords such as:
CDROM Recording Software Golden Hawk Technology CDROM recording
software
Golden Hawk Technology disc-at-once Data Audio Mixed-Mode
Multisession CD
CD recordable technology track-at-once recording ISO9660 disc
mastering CDROM recorders
CD-R software disc-at-once software Disc-at-Once Recording audio discs
DAO
AUDIO CDROM Mode 1 CDROM-XA Mode 2 CD-I Mixed-Mode Multisession discs
ISO9660 disc mastering El Torito Karaoke CD+G redbook yellowbook CUE
SHEET
image files image file Digital Audio Extraction rewriteable snapshot
CDRwin
CREATIVE CDR4210 GRUNDIG CDR100IPW HEWLETT PACKARD 4020i / 6020i /
6020es / 6020ep JVC XR-W2010 / XR-W2020 (2626) KODAK PCD225 / PCD600
MEMOREX CRW-620 MITSUMI CR-2401TS OLYMPUS CDS615E / CDS620E / CDS630E
PANASONIC CW-7501 PHILIPS CDD521 / CDD522 / CDD2000 / CDD2600 PHILIPS
OMNIWRITER PINNACLE RCD5040 / RCD4X4 PIONEER DW-S114X PLASMON RF4100 /
CDR4220 / CDR4240 PLEXTOR PX-R24CS RICOH RO-1420C RICOH MP6200S /
MP6201S SMART & FRIENDLY All Models SONY CDW-900E SONY CDU-920S /
CDU-924S / CDU-926S TEAC CD-R50S WEARNES CDR-432 / CDR-632 YAMAHA
CDR100 / CDR102 / CDR200 / CDR400
- ------------------
My original letter to Jeff:
Hi,
I like(ed) your software, but after reading the post below, I
will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust you
and by proxy no longer trust your software. If your software causes a
problem with my system, you'll be hearing from my lawyers in the form
of a lawsuit. You are way too close to the edge of reality and the
abyss, get some help!
Rich
- --
From: mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
Subject: Re: CDRwin - CRACKS? - HACKS? - VIRUS's? Jeff Arnold
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 04:21:10 -0600
Message-ID: <882958085....@dejanews.com>
Newsgroups: comp.publish.cdrom.software
Organization: Deja News Posting Service
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References: <34985F91...@digital.net>
<9E19BD00CFED347D.E2CA9E7F...@library-proxy.airnews.net>
<349DC88F...@direcpc.com>
X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Dec 24 10:08:05 1997 GMT
X-Authenticated-Sender: mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
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[192.168.77.101]
Lines: 68
In article <349DC88F...@direcpc.com>,
Brian Rademacher <n0...@direcpc.com> wrote:
>
> I would be interested to see a response from Jeff...
>
O.K. Here are some more statements from Jeff Arnold:
_________________________________________________________________
Subject: A message from the owner of Golden Hawk Technology
From: jar...@mainstream.net (Jeff Arnold)
Date: 1997/04/08
Message-ID: <5iecj9$d...@kirk.mainstream.net>
Newsgroups: comp.publish.cdrom.software,comp.publish.cdrom.hardware
From: Jeff Arnold
Over the past year, our software products have been heavily pirated on
the Internet. When it came time to release version 3.0 of our
software, I
decided to implement a much stronger form of copy protection that
would
help reduce this problem. ..... All of the "crack codes" that I have
seen
(so far) for version 3.0 are invalid. The hackers who are creating and
distributing these cracks are complete morons who don't even bother to
test the codes before releasing them. ..... TO ALL HACKERS: I'm still
waiting for you losers to properly crack the new version. You have
failed
miserably this time and thousands of dollars in blank discs have been
ruined because of your stupidity. I've been waiting for almost a year
to
get my revenge and I'm loving every minute of it !!
Sincerely,
Jeff Arnold Golden Hawk Technology
_________________________________________________________________________
_____ Subject: Re: VORSICHT VIRUS in CDRWin 3.3a keygen !!! From:
Jeff
Arnold <jar...@mainstream.net> Date: 1997/11/19 Message-ID:
<347326...@mainstream.net> Newsgroups: de.comp.periph.cdrom
> > Unbelievable but true!!!! Jeff Arnold, you went one step too far!
> > Your keygen for CDRWin 3.3a is not only a fake that fucks up CDs,
> > it contains a VIRUS also! Older versions of mcaffee or drsolomon
> > won't find it! (Today I read a msg from drsolomon that the new
> > november version identifies it as Spanska.4250)
This message is from Jeff Arnold
I have *never* written or released any fake key generators or viruses
onto the Internet (I don't even know how to do this).
However, I'm glad that somebody did this... You assholes deserve it
for pirating software (if you play with matches, eventually you are
going to get burned). Do you think all of the software developers
are just going to sit back and take your shit?
Warning! As the pirates get closer and closer to breaking our
new keys, CDRWIN will start deleting files from your harddrive if
it detects a pirated key is being used. You've been warned...
Are we having fun yet?
Jeff Arnold
Golden Hawk Technology
______________________________________________________________________
So I think the lines above should destroy every doubt upon the
"features" of Jeff's software.
Merry Christmas again!
Michael
- -------------------==== Posted via Deja News
====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
- --
Work hard and play hard,
Rich
and...if you consider email spamming working hard.
Here's the email addresses of the current board of
the Federal Communications Commission for ya, enjoy:
Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rch...@fcc.gov
and just because he cares: jar...@goldenhawk.com
and again just because he cares: jar...@mainstream.net
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351 Rocker
>Warning! As the pirates get closer and closer to breaking our
>new keys, CDRWIN will start deleting files from your harddrive if
>it detects a pirated key is being used. You've been warned...
>
>Are we having fun yet?
>
>Jeff Arnold
>Golden Hawk Technology
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>So I think the lines above should destroy every doubt upon the
>"features" of Jeff's software.
Extremely professional indeed. I don't even want to comment on this.
It's simply too ridiculous to be true.
3 5 1 r o c k e r @ u s a . n e t
---
"It's best to burn out than to fade away" - Neil Young
Duratrude
rtcy,
You must have missed it in my post where I wrote to Jeff Arnold,
"I will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust
would you gather that I "WANT IT(his software) AWFULL [SIC] BAD!!!!",
I write that I do not trust a piece of demo software and you conclude
that I wish to own the full version of it. What I'm actually saying
is that you couldn't pay me to use this software. Sheesh, tell me,
what does 1 + 1 equal in your world? Now, go and wash your sewer
(mouth) out with soap.
--
Work hard and play hard,
Rich
and...if you consider email spamming working hard.
Here's the email addresses of the current board of
the Federal Communications Commission for ya, enjoy:
Chairman Reed Hundt: rhu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner James Quello: jqu...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Susan Ness: sn...@fcc.gov
Commissioner Rachelle Chong: rch...@fcc.gov
and just because he cares: jar...@goldenhawk.com
and again just because he cares: jar...@mainstream.net
--
On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 02:45:04 GMT, rt...@bigfoot.com spewed a
litany of vulgarities at us:
>Jesus!!! give us a F'ing BREAK enough. you hate the guy & dislike his
>software!!!! WE got it now go FUCK OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>it sounds like you WANT IT AWFULL BAD!!!! PAY DICK WEED!!!!
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
In article <34a669c...@news.telepac.pt>,
x...@x.xx (351 Rocker) wrote:
>
>
> >Warning! As the pirates get closer and closer to breaking our
> >new keys, CDRWIN will start deleting files from your harddrive if
> >it detects a pirated key is being used. You've been warned...
> >
> >Are we having fun yet?
> >
> >Jeff Arnold
> >Golden Hawk Technology
> >______________________________________________________________________
> >
> >So I think the lines above should destroy every doubt upon the
> >"features" of Jeff's software.
>
> It's simply too ridiculous to be true.
>
It seems that you haven't read all the postings during the last days
in comp.publish.cdrom.software concerning that.
Just read them and the ORIGINAL postings of Jeff Arnold in the old
database of dejanews. That's what I did and reposted 4 of them.
It IS true, I know it, Jeff knows it, and many other people too.
Or did I misunderstand you?
Happy new year!
Michael
> ---
> "It's best to burn out than to fade away" - Neil Young
>
BTW the original line in "hey hey my my" goes
it's BETTER to burn out than to fade away...
351 Rocker
>> >Warning! As the pirates get closer and closer to breaking our
>> >new keys, CDRWIN will start deleting files from your harddrive if
>> >it detects a pirated key is being used. You've been warned...
>> >
>> >Are we having fun yet?
>> >
>> >Jeff Arnold
>> >Golden Hawk Technology
>> >______________________________________________________________________
>> >
>> >So I think the lines above should destroy every doubt upon the
>> >"features" of Jeff's software.
>>
>> Extremely professional indeed. I don't even want to comment on this.
>> It's simply too ridiculous to be true.
>>
>Ridiculous??? What's ridiculous???
>It seems that you haven't read all the postings during the last days
>in comp.publish.cdrom.software concerning that.
>Just read them and the ORIGINAL postings of Jeff Arnold in the old
>database of dejanews. That's what I did and reposted 4 of them.
>It IS true, I know it, Jeff knows it, and many other people too.
I find ridiculous that any "professional" coder would include
trojan methods to annoy crackers. Making the program write
corrupt TOCs and waisting CDs would hardly be acceptable, but at
least he would be able to get away by saying it's just cuz of the
software running with fake keys and not really intentional.
On the other hand...deleting system files? If that is true, it's
probably the lamest thing I've ever seen done by a so called
professinal programmer. In fact, it sounds pretty amateur.
And I sure wouldn't buy software produced by immature amateurs...
3 5 1 r o c k e r @ u s a . n e t
---
Goran Marinic
Duratrude wrote in message <34a9d072...@207.14.113.10>...
>rtcy,
> You must have missed it in my post where I wrote to Jeff Arnold,
>"I will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust
>you and by proxy no longer trust your software." Where from that
>would you gather that I "WANT IT(his software) AWFULL [SIC] BAD!!!!",
>I write that I do not trust a piece of demo software and you conclude
>that I wish to own the full version of it. What I'm actually saying
>is that you couldn't pay me to use this software. Sheesh, tell me,
>what does 1 + 1 equal in your world? Now, go and wash your sewer
>(mouth) out with soap.
He didn't say that, though he was perhaps a tiny bit upset by your lengthy and repetitive posts. Sorry if it was somebody else, but my threads are quite muddled.
So, on behalf of several people, to the person who'll certainly know that this is dedicated to him:
We understand.
We understand that you don't like Jeff Arnold
We understand that (by proxy) you don't like Jeff Arnold's programs.
We understand that you don't trust Jeff Arnold.
We understand that (by proxy) you don't trust Jeff Arnold's programs.
We are happy that you know you don't want Jeff Arnold's program.
So, now that you have accomplished what you tried to say, and know that we know, I would like to ask you two things.
First, please do not repeat your post again. At least not for several weeks. We read it all. Honestly. I'll even save all of the posts from the thread on my hard disk, and print a copy if that will make you happier. I might put it on a wall, if you insist.
Second, if you choose to ignore the first, or if you continue the thread in answer to someone, please do not quote again those 10 KB of badly sorted Jeff Arnold's quotes.
351 Rocker
>>>"I will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust
>>>you and by proxy no longer trust your software." Where from that
>>>would you gather that I "WANT IT(his software) AWFULL [SIC] BAD!!!!",
>GIVE IT A REST!. MY PERCEPTION OF YOU WANTING THIS SOFTWARE COMES
>FROM THE FACT THAT YOU SCREAM SO LOUDLY about it. Fact is others in
>this thread have told you how there's plenty of software that do
>SIMILAR if not AS distructive things as Jeff's does ,take for example
>"live update" it reads your hard drive and SENDS this info out of your
>box to who knows who(paranoia setting in)than it downloads x-pieces of
>files updates old files and ERASES files in the process(this is not to
>claim that Symantec is doing wrong)but maybe you can see how it does
>stuff you don't know about! no matterbad you are at typing you can
>always use ctrl-c to "cut" the password when Jeff emails it to you
>and then when the window comes up for the serial use ctrl-v to "paste"
>in and you can bypass your fears of what it will do! if after all this
>you manage to F' up you can always reinstall the files it deletes. YOU
>DO HAVE THE ORIGINALS? DON'T YOU OR DO YOU HAVE TO UNZIP-UNARJ-UNRAR
>ALL THOSE FILES????? HMMMMMM
He still has a point, no matter if he wants it awfully bad or not.
I'm 101% happy with my current software,and don't want it at all and
it still pisses me off, well I wouldn't say it pisses me off, but at
least I sure don't think it's something a professional would do. I
heard about CDRWin long before buying my
CDRW and had respect for the program. After hearing about all that
I did change my opinion about the author.
Also, the program now seems produced by an amateur shareware coder
with little respect for the market's rules and even for his own
customers.
I'm not saying it's a bad program, it might be excellent doing its
job or not, but that's not the point here.
It doesn't matter if we like it or not.
What Symantec does or does not matters little here. They sure wouldn't
use such a destructive, or at least annoying method.
If the keys are fake or simply mistyped original matters little too.
The point here is that doing that is completely WRONG and very, very
UNPROFESSIONAL.
Tim
I tend to agree. Its like if someone stole something from your house, you
still don't have the right to go over to his house and burn it down. The
author is walking a fine line here which could possibly get himself into
trouble.
But thats just my opinion.
darksoft
In article <34ad81eb...@news.supernews.com>, jo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:07:18 GMT, bu...@hare.net (Bugs Bunny?) wrote:
>>These childish attempts at a completely unprofessional revenge is the mark of
> a
>>true rank amateur in the business world. Bad business decision, dude.
>>A decision like this easily costs more in new and repeat business than lost
>>revenues to pirates ever could.
>Really? stupid me here I was thinking that it was rampant pirating that killed
>the commodores,atari,and amigas.
>
Nope, it was people like you who post 3 of the exact same message, while still
not understanding how to clip out the unnecessary bits.
And FYI, the only thing that killed Commodore/Amiga and Atari was the rampant
stupidity of the owners of that technology, not pirating.
Joel
S
On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:42:36 GMT, jo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Really? stupid me here I was thinking that it was rampant pirating that killed
>the commodores,atari,and amigas.
You said it, it's stupid....
The IBM P.C. killed the competition, they never achieved
critical mass because the public decided that they liked the
availability of software the PC provided.
Authors wrote for that platform because there was a larger
market and a better chance of selling product.
It wasn't pirates that killed of the TRS-80 either.....
S.
Misteradio
>It wasn't pirates that killed of the TRS-80 either.....
What? You mean the TRS-80 is dead?
Oh, man. That's sad to hear! I kept waiting for the new Netscape 4 to come out
for my TRS-80, and I guess I now know why it hasn't! I had even reserved a week
of my vacation just so I could download it at 300 baud!
I guess I can scratch those other weeks of vacation off, too. I was saving them
for when the TRS-80 version of Riven came out.
'Tis a sad day, indeed...
Now I guess I'll have to use that vacation time honing my "Blue Meanies From
Outer Space" skills on the Vic-20!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Ten Year Olds With Suckerpads" - A musical compilation
of users who frequent the ALT.FAN.DEVO Usenet group!
Get all the info at: http://members.aol.com/afdcomp/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grizzly
Yes you can. Just drag the tracks down. Push the magic red button,
tell it to do DAO (Disk at Once) and away you go. Done lots of
Pink Floyd CD's. They're done DAO but nobody knew what that
meant till now.
Grizz (I use EZCD Creator all the time)
--------------------------------
Cooty wrote:
> To his credit, the program does do a great CD audio copy on CDs where songs run
> into each other with no audible gap. Can't do that with EZCD Creator or EZCD
> Copier. Yet Adaptec seems to be doing a selling great job with NO protection or
> "gotchas" and shrink wrapping the item. Food for thought, eh, Jeff?
>
> --Cooty
altar
On 28 Dec 1997 13:10:01 -0700, S...@minnmicro.com (S) wrote:
Yep dude im totaly agree with you
the main problem of other systems like Commodore and friends
was that they werent upgradable like the Pcs are
btw i guess that Intel and Pc manufacturers r happy 'bout pirates
because nowadays lots of ppl buy computers
because they know they will get pirated softwares for almost nutting
>
> The IBM P.C. killed the competition, they never achieved
>critical mass because the public decided that they liked the
>availability of software the PC provided.
>
> Authors wrote for that platform because there was a larger
>market and a better chance of selling product.
>
> It wasn't pirates that killed of the TRS-80 either.....
>
> S.
>
darksoft
In article <34bdc6ac...@news2carrot.hare.net>, bu...@hare.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bugs_Bunny=AE?=) wrote:
>On or about Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:58:07 GMT, someone claiming to be
>dark...@gte.net (darksoft) scribbled the following:
>:And FYI, the only thing that killed Commodore/Amiga and Atari was the =
>rampant stupidity of the owners of that technology, not pirating.
>:
>:Joel
>
>
Actually, I was referring to the companies that made the computers :)
Joel
MightyGuru
I have been using CDRwin now for a while and have NO complaints with the
software. I called and ordered the software and shortly thereafter received
the download info and registration keys. ALL you have to do is simply
cut-and-paste the codes into the software. How can you screw up and enter
the wrong code this way?? Not to mention the latest letter I received from
Golden Hawk Software states that the wrong codes CANNOT be entered and
accepted because of the 'check' key. Here is the clip from the email I
received concerning these apparently FALSE accusations circulating the
newsgroups:
***********************************************************************
PIRACY PROBLEMS
The software pirates are upset because we have been actively trying to
stop them from stealing our software and distributing it on the net.
They are now spreading rumors that say "customers who enter their unlock
keys incorrectly will have their CD-R discs ruined and files on their
system deleted". This is completely untrue! The new keys were designed
to prevent them from being entered incorrectly (this is what the "check
key" is used for). We challenge anybody to enter their codes incorrectly
and have the software accept them!
The only people who are being screwed by our new protection scheme are
the software pirates, *not* legitimate customers.
***********************************************************************
END
351 Rocker wrote in message <34a6db05...@news.telepac.pt>...
>
>>>>"I will be removing your program from my system. I no longer trust
>>>>you and by proxy no longer trust your software." Where from that
>>>>would you gather that I "WANT IT(his software) AWFULL [SIC] BAD!!!!",
i3x.netcom2.1com
On 28 Dec 1997 21:21:17 GMT "miste...@aol.com (Misteradio)" posted to
"comp.publish.cdrom.hardware" about: "Re: Jeff Arnold of Golden Hawk
Technology." :
-->>It wasn't pirates that killed of the TRS-80 either.....
-->
-->What? You mean the TRS-80 is dead?
-->
-->Oh, man. That's sad to hear! I kept waiting for the new Netscape 4 to come
out
-->for my TRS-80, and I guess I now know why it hasn't! I had even reserved a
week
-->of my vacation just so I could download it at 300 baud!
-->
-->I guess I can scratch those other weeks of vacation off, too. I was saving
them
-->for when the TRS-80 version of Riven came out.
-->
-->'Tis a sad day, indeed...
-->
-->Now I guess I'll have to use that vacation time honing my "Blue Meanies From
-->Outer Space" skills on the Vic-20!
Caution, this post may lead to rampant laughter! It did, it did.
Do pirates laugh? Do any software companies make money? Is there any reason to
think that well written software that is initially released when already mature
will be a moneymaker? Have you, anybody, installed software that is perfect in
its function from end to end (esp. os softs)? I saw on television (a standalone
device that needs no software or hardware upgrades, period) a program that
ventured that wide spread copying of data (paper) tapes of program code helped
boost personal computer use and popularity with a cult like attraction: could
this be true?
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." Blair Houghton
1red2devil3ATix.netcom.com
[Up to about 75mb of spam daily...die spammer die]
i3x.netcom2.1com
On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:05:45 -0700 "Grizzly <gri...@digital.net>" posted to
"comp.publish.cdrom.hardware" about: "Re: Jeff Arnold of Golden Hawk
Technology." :
-->Yes you can. Just drag the tracks down. Push the magic red button,
-->tell it to do DAO (Disk at Once) and away you go. Done lots of
-->Pink Floyd CD's. They're done DAO but nobody knew what that
-->meant till now.
-->Grizz (I use EZCD Creator all the time)
-->
-->--------------------------------
-->Cooty wrote:
-->
-->> To his credit, the program does do a great CD audio copy on CDs where songs
run
-->> into each other with no audible gap. Can't do that with EZCD Creator or
EZCD
-->> Copier. Yet Adaptec seems to be doing a selling great job with NO
protection or
-->> "gotchas" and shrink wrapping the item. Food for thought, eh, Jeff?
-->>
-->> --Cooty
The irony here is that relatively few users of cd audio mastering software put
it to "legitimate" or fair use. Sure some professional sound guys may make
copies as demos etc, and there are certainly bands out there making there own
masters and in proces recordings, as well as some studio and such usage, but for
production mastering I am pretty sure there is more refined and professional
software out there. (How can you compare this small number to the large home
market for devices, media and software?)
So you have this guy writing destructive code into his music "pirating"
software.... Er, guns don't kill people, bullets do. But did you ever try to
kill someone with a bullet and no gun? So gun makers bear some responsibility.
As with cdrom drive makers, software writers, media makers, the retailers of all
such products, sellers of cd's that might be copied, etc.
Frankly it comes down to personal decisions about what is right and wrong, and
laws have only some bearing on what many people will do. I am pretty sure that
software that attacks your system files, under any circumstances, will not be a
very good advertisement for its writers and sellers. As a matter of opinion,
and appearance, if the software is worth a hoot, then it will be seen as a
challenge to crackers.
What is fair use? Is it ok to back up your owned copies of music cd's? How
about to compile them into "favorites" cd's for personal use only? Would this
be similar to backing them up? How about if you make these and give one to a
friend as a present? Have you crossed the line at this point? What if you sell
your collection of favorites cd's? (say at a garage sale: federal offense?
even just in theory?)
The software this gomer makes facilitates improper/illegal use as its basic
function. Perhaps his nasty attitude is based on self-hate.... Some things to
think about, TS
Scott Demos
>>Now I guess I'll have to use that vacation time honing my "Blue Meanies From
>>Outer Space" skills on the Vic-20!
>Vic-20? I guess you must be at least 35 years old :)
>I remember fitting a 2k RAM board in one of those.
>Peter.
Stop the madness, I had a Vic20 and must have played the game with the mouse
that farts to block out the pac-people and gather up the cheese to fart
somemore about 100 times. Sold the thing off to a pawnshop about the time the
64 came out and told the guy it was a super-system, the guy paid me $400 bucks
for it, if I would set it up so it can stay on until someone buys it.(guy
didnt know much about computers, like nothing at all!), only time I ever sold
a used system while not being in business and made about 100 percent of the
investment back.
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
In article <34a6a2f6....@news.alt.net>, Fake Address wrote:
>'Tis a shame to see the guy blow his cool and act like such a jerk.
>To his credit, the program does do a great CD audio copy on CDs where songs run
Adaptec and Goldenhawk are hardly companies of the same ilk. I could stick up
an unprotected ZIP of Easy CD Creator on a web page today and publicise its
location right here. And Adaptec's lawyers would kill me. If I were to post my
legal CDRWin unlock codes, Jeff wouldn't be in a position to deal with it in
the courts, but would have to change his software once again. Adaptec is a
huge corporation, while Goldenhawk appears to be Jeff's living. He wrote a
piece of software; due to its good quality and very reasonable price, and as a
result of his own hard work, it looks like he was able to give up his day job.
And now the pirates, as a result of their hard work, are threatening his
livelihood. If he doesn't deal with the problem, perhaps he won't be able to
pay his mortgage, so you can hardly blame him for being a little peeved by the
pirates.
That said, I don't agree with his tactics. I think that a more appropriate
reaction to a pirate key would be the message "this is an illegal pirated copy
of the software, and won't work".
For the benefit of any onlookers who might be thinking of buying CDRWin/DAO, I
will say this: CDRWin and DAO are good programs. They work well, and do what
they claim to do. But only if you buy a legitimate copy.
Clive Backham
Capita Business Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
> That said, I don't agree with his tactics. I think that a more appropriate
> reaction to a pirate key would be the message "this is an illegal pirated copy
> of the software, and won't work".
>
> For the benefit of any onlookers who might be thinking of buying CDRWin/DAO, I
> will say this: CDRWin and DAO are good programs. They work well, and do what
> they claim to do. But only if you buy a legitimate copy.
I agree on both counts -- bad tactics, great product. I've burned about
40 CDs in the past few months, some as audio, some as on-the-fly
backups, some as huge directories of artwork to send out. It has one
minor failing with reading audio from my particular CDR (Pinnacle
RCD-1000), but I can do that with some shareware (Because I don't copy
commercial CDs, I don't really need it -- I just didn't realize with my
first burns that storing my music as digital audio was less ultimately
reliable that storing them as .wav files for making future copies).
Jeff may be a cranky guy, but his product does a good job (and because
it's compact, it doesn't walk all over my system leaving a trail of
Microsoft-style files everywhere).
Philip J. Koenig
In article <24C3919081C7D011957...@ip3-99.nildram.co.uk>,
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk writes...
> Adaptec and Goldenhawk are hardly companies of the same ilk. I could stick
> up an unprotected ZIP of Easy CD Creator on a web page today and publicise
> its location right here. And Adaptec's lawyers would kill me. If I were to
> post my legal CDRWin unlock codes, Jeff wouldn't be in a position to deal
> with it in the courts, but would have to change his software once again.
> Adaptec is a huge corporation, while Goldenhawk appears to be Jeff's living.
> He wrote a piece of software; due to its good quality and very reasonable
> price, and as a result of his own hard work, it looks like he was able to
> give up his day job. And now the pirates, as a result of their hard work,
> are threatening his livelihood. If he doesn't deal with the problem, perhaps
> he won't be able to pay his mortgage, so you can hardly blame him for being
> a little peeved by the pirates.
>
> That said, I don't agree with his tactics. I think that a more appropriate
> reaction to a pirate key would be the message "this is an illegal pirated
> copy of the software, and won't work".
I guess I'm confused. Didn't someone already debunk this assertion that an
illegal copy does something "nasty" to your system? This silly thread has
gone on so long I can't find the original premise here any more.
My understanding was that it simply had copy protection. Big whoop. And as
Clive says, the guy has to make a living.
Phil
--
Philip J. Koenig Computers & Communications [see below]
References to my email address in this message have been modified to foil
address-collection robots. If you wish to send email, use the following
address by removing numbers and spaces: pjk29@crl46 . c o m
Goran Marinic
jo...@hotmail.com wrote in message <34ac81b5...@news.supernews.com>...
>On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:07:18 GMT, bu...@hare.net (Bugs Bunny?) wrote:
>
>>On or about Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:33:53 GMT, someone claiming to be
>>c...@internetcoffee.com (Chris) scribbled the following:
>>
>>:On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 05:02:02 GMT, x...@x.xx (351 Rocker) wrote in
>>:comp.publish.cdrom.hardware:
>>:
>>:>The point here is that doing that is completely WRONG and very, very
>>:>UNPROFESSIONAL.
>>:
>>:Doesn't Microsoft do the same thing? I seem to recall warnings a while
>>:back that if two people log on to MSN with the same Win95 serial number
>>:MSN sends an instruction that makes those systems unbootable until Win95
>>:is completely reinstalled....
>>
>>Oh, so that makes it OK then. I see. LOL
>>(Besides, never happened)
>>
>>I actually bought CDRWin. Got my own set of reg keys and everything.
>>I use it once in a while. Actually like the program. But Jeff's actions of
late
>>have caused me to rethink my continued support of the product and the
author.
>>These childish attempts at a completely unprofessional revenge is the mark
of a
>>true rank amateur in the business world. Bad business decision, dude.
>>A decision like this easily costs more in new and repeat business than
lost
>>revenues to pirates ever could.
killed
>the commodores,atari,and amigas.
Rampant pirating is what made them so popular. Amiga is on its deathbed for
years because of Commodore's amazingly bad decisions, and PC succeeded
because, basically, people are stingy. If everyone had known they would want
multimedia and troublefree systems today, PC would have been clubbed the day
it came out.
The thing about JA is that he is distributing fully functional software
(several factors smaller than the competition) over the net, and the only
thing between legal and illegal usage of his program are the serial numbers
(and sense of justice, but...). Even more important is that he is selling a
lesser known and not exactly easy to use (at least, not to someone who
doesn't know a little bit more than basics of CD R), powerful and
specialized program, which is not going to be used by most people,
especially when compared to ECDC and various bundled programs. So you see,
his market is much narrower and his product more susceptible to piracy,
which places him in a difficult position.
Goran Marinic
Cooty wrote in message <34a6a2f6....@news.alt.net>...
>On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:07:18 GMT, bu...@hare.net (Bugs Bunny?) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I actually bought CDRWin. Got my own set of reg keys and everything.
>>I use it once in a while. Actually like the program. But Jeff's actions of
late
>>have caused me to rethink my continued support of the product and the
author.
>>These childish attempts at a completely unprofessional revenge is the mark
of a
>>true rank amateur in the business world. Bad business decision, dude.
>>A decision like this easily costs more in new and repeat business than
lost
>>revenues to pirates ever could.
>'Tis a shame to see the guy blow his cool and act like such a jerk.
>To his credit, the program does do a great CD audio copy on CDs where songs
run
>into each other with no audible gap. Can't do that with EZCD Creator or
EZCD
>Copier. Yet Adaptec seems to be doing a selling great job with NO
protection or
>"gotchas" and shrink wrapping the item. Food for thought, eh, Jeff?
His program does quite a lot, while Adaptec seems to actually removes the
possibility of advanced features control as it goes further. The fact is
that his program is distributed over the net, it's small (20x smaller than
ECDC Deluxe, around 8x than ECDC) and the only thing which prevents you from
using it are the serial numbers (and currently a password on directory).
Adaptecis also OEM-ing its products, among other things.
And yes, you can do DAO with ECDC.
Dana Parker
Philip J. Koenig wrote:
>
>
> I guess I'm confused. Didn't someone already debunk this assertion that an
> illegal copy does something "nasty" to your system? This silly thread has
> gone on so long I can't find the original premise here any more.
>
> My understanding was that it simply had copy protection. Big whoop. And as
> Clive says, the guy has to make a living.
My understanding is that the copy protection Jeff uses will cause an
illegally obtained version of the program to record coasters. It will
not damage systems or files, it just won't record usable discs.
However, _someone else_ has released a key generator for the SW that
contains a virus that will delete files from your hard drive. Jeff is
being blamed for the acts of the pirates who steal his software and
release it on the Internet.
>
Scott Demos
> The thing about JA is that he is distributing fully functional software
>(several factors smaller than the competition) over the net, and the only
>thing between legal and illegal usage of his program are the serial numbers
>(and sense of justice, but...). Even more important is that he is selling a
>lesser known and not exactly easy to use (at least, not to someone who
>doesn't know a little bit more than basics of CD R), powerful and
>specialized program, which is not going to be used by most people,
>especially when compared to ECDC and various bundled programs. So you see,
>his market is much narrower and his product more susceptible to piracy,
>which places him in a difficult position.
If I was Jeff, I would sell the program and copyrights to Microsoft. The
program is very good. Microsoft makes(er..buys) some of the best programs ever
written. I think Bill might like to own CD authoring software to add to his
collection of companies. Then all of you will stop complaining about how
"cranky" Jeff is,(I have found the conversation I had with him basically blunt
and to the point, with no hints of thank you or gratitude in buying his
product) but programmers are not known to have great people skills. I still
think its better than picking up "Microsoft Win95CDR" (no such thing yet).
paul
> As we have all seen here and in other areas, it has been suggested
> that the trojan horse in CdrWin could be sprung by mistyping the
> registration.
>
> Someone has actually stated it happened to him.
> As I have also heard a lot of positive things about this software, I
> was actually interested in buying it. But reading all this, I must say > I
am now a little reluctant. And I guess that I am not the only one, at >
that. I think it is now high time that Jeff Arnold enters this
> discussion to tell us decent people that there is no truth in this
> whatsoever. That his software will NOT destroy our systems by a mere >
mistyping from our side.
>
> Any failure by Jeff Arnold to do so will be interpreted as to that the
> assumptions were right, and I (and probably others too) will in the
> future avoid his products.
The software pirates are upset because we have been actively trying to
stop them from stealing our software and distributing it on the net.
They are now spreading rumors that say "customers who enter their unlock
keys incorrectly will have their CD-R discs ruined and files on their
system deleted". This is completely untrue! The new keys were designed
to prevent them from being entered incorrectly (this is what the "check
key" is used for). We challenge anybody to enter their codes incorrectly
and have the software accept them!
The only people who are being screwed by our new protection scheme are
the software pirates, *not* legitimate customers. No customer has ever
contacted us with problems related to the protection scheme.
You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
credit card fraud over the Internet.
Jeff Arnold
Golden Hawk Technology
WWW : http://www.goldenhawk.com
EMAIL: jar...@goldenhawk.com
Doug Roberts
a TWO K ram board???? What could you possibly want with that much memory??
David Poole
> My understanding was that it simply had copy protection. Big whoop. And as
> Clive says, the guy has to make a living.
The most amazing programme that Jeff has made for the pirates is
freeware. Its called cd2cd.exe, runs in a DOS box, finds your two
SCSI CD drives and tells you it will take 19 mins to copy (if you've
got a 4x writer).
Also freeware is finalize.exe which can usually save that coaster you
thought you made.
Its beyond me why he's given these away.
ran...@smart.net
>
>This is not true Dana, take apart Jeff's program and you will clearly
>see that he also has the program DELETE *.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
>files, this IS clear destruction of private property.
Come on guy, there is no such program in CDRWIN. I have taken it apart
and can't find any reference to it. You sound like one of the pirates
who thinks by "claiming" Jeffs program has that code in it...you will
scare off newbies who don't know how to find code themselves.
I don't own CDRWIN, but am thinking of buying it. I wouldn't be at all
surprised if Jeff himself started these rumors to scare off people
from using pirated copies.
But once again I repeat, there is no code in CDRWIN that I could find
that will delete files, or no program DELETE *.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
Just by saying over and over again something is true, does not make it
true
Goran Marinic
Scott Demos wrote in message ...
>
>If I was Jeff, I would sell the program and copyrights to Microsoft. The
>program is very good. Microsoft makes(er..buys) some of the best programs
ever
>written. I think Bill might like to own CD authoring software to add to his
>collection of companies. Then all of you will stop complaining about how
>"cranky" Jeff is,(I have found the conversation I had with him basically
blunt
>and to the point, with no hints of thank you or gratitude in buying his
>product) but programmers are not known to have great people skills. I still
>think its better than picking up "Microsoft Win95CDR" (no such thing yet).
No chance. First, MS would cripple the program leaving out all the good
features. Second, the thing MS is famous about is ease of the use, in which
case they would more probably buy Adaptec's ECDC or even one of its Incat's
predecessors. Maybe for the one after Memphis?
Goran Marinic
Philip J. Koenig wrote in message ...
>I guess I'm confused. Didn't someone already debunk this assertion that an
>illegal copy does something "nasty" to your system? This silly thread has
>gone on so long I can't find the original premise here any more.
>
>My understanding was that it simply had copy protection. Big whoop. And
as
>Clive says, the guy has to make a living.
Nobody is sure anymore. But pirated copy will produce coasters when
recording data CDs.
David Griffiths
On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:29:57 -0000, cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>That said, I don't agree with his tactics. I think that a more appropriate
>reaction to a pirate key would be the message "this is an illegal pirated copy
>of the software, and won't work".
Agreed, and that's why I'll never purchase his software. (There's
other, better software that does all the same things, incidentally)
I have no problems with his software corrupting CDRs if it's an
invalid registration key - but I have a _SERIOUS_ problem if he's
going to add code to erase anything on any part of my machine.
To do this is no better than to write a virus, regardless of how
"ethically just" he feels about his battle against piracy.
Dave
Goran Marinic
David Griffiths wrote in message <34af1f65...@news.direct.ca>...
>On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:29:57 -0000, cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
>>That said, I don't agree with his tactics. I think that a more appropriate
>>reaction to a pirate key would be the message "this is an illegal pirated
copy
>>of the software, and won't work".
>
>Agreed, and that's why I'll never purchase his software. (There's
>other, better software that does all the same things, incidentally)
And what would that be? I tried quite a lot of them, but am laways looking
for something better...
ran...@smart.net
ON Sat, 03 Jan 1998 06:12:14 GMT, elec...@circuit.com (Electron)
WROTE:
>
>Noop not a pirate, thought you'd make a comment like that, AGAIN I
>just pulled apart one of his latest versions and YES it IS in there
>and no it personally dosen't bother me, I'm not trying to run a
>pirated copy of it, period. Pull apart 3.2d and you'll see it's not
>there and then pull apart 3.3d and you'll find it.
Sorry guy I pulled apart 3.3d and there is no delete program or
anything else like that in it. I guess you figure if you keep posting
the same lies over and over, people will start to believe you. I would
tell anyone if they have the expertise to look for youself in Jeffs
program..and try to find a trojan horse. IT simply isn't there
Keat Lim
well, i dont know about software pirates, but to think that there is a
potential virus lurking around waiting to go off if the file happens to be
corrupted in a crash just puts me off. sorry, but you just lost another
customer.
-keat
Jeff Arnold
> collection of companies. Then all of you will stop complaining
> about how "cranky" Jeff is,(I have found the conversation I had
> with him basically blunt and to the point, with no hints of thank
> you or gratitude in buying his product) but programmers are not
> known to have great people skills.
You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
or installation instructions.
> Agreed, and that's why I'll never purchase his software. (There's
> other, better software that does all the same things, incidentally)
>
> I have no problems with his software corrupting CDRs if it's an
> invalid registration key - but I have a _SERIOUS_ problem if he's
> going to add code to erase anything on any part of my machine.
>
> To do this is no better than to write a virus, regardless of how
> "ethically just" he feels about his battle against piracy.
The software pirates are upset because we have been actively trying to
S
Jeff,
I don't use your product but I do write and distibute software
and have for 25 years. I "think" I have a clue about the business.
>You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>or installation instructions.
Excuse me, but this is called customer service and is a cost
of doing business. If you don't want to do the service I recommend you
find someone who does. If you want to charge people for a product the
service comes as part of the package. You can define the terms of
service and charge people the moon for it but someone has to do the
job. Most smart business people use it as an income flow.
I've told people for more years that I like to think what
frigging manual page they should look at for the exact answer they
want. It's tiresome, it's overwhelming sometimes but they have a right
to ask.
And YOU have a responsibility to answer in some fashion.
In other words, copy protection issues aside, this is simply
whining......
Regards,
Steve
Scott Demos
>> collection of companies. Then all of you will stop complaining
>> about how "cranky" Jeff is,(I have found the conversation I had
>> with him basically blunt and to the point, with no hints of thank
>> you or gratitude in buying his product) but programmers are not
>> known to have great people skills.
Jeff , The above part I wrote.
>You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>or installation instructions.
This is the part you wrote. I dont blame you for being cranky about that, but
you do have to remember that your software is good and all the people that use
it are not that "good" at reading or following instructions. You will notice
that under this section you are reading right now, that I didnt write the
lines that start with agreed. I dont know how someone got double quote marks
on my original post because as you know, I did buy the software.
>> Agreed, and that's why I'll never purchase his software. (There's
>> other, better software that does all the same things, incidentally)
>>
>> I have no problems with his software corrupting CDRs if it's an
>> invalid registration key - but I have a _SERIOUS_ problem if he's
>> going to add code to erase anything on any part of my machine.
>>
>> To do this is no better than to write a virus, regardless of how
>> "ethically just" he feels about his battle against piracy.
>The software pirates are upset because we have been actively trying to
>stop them from stealing our software and distributing it on the net.
Jeff, I do have to admit, when I was installing your software that I was a
little nervous that the codes you provided me with, were typed in correctly as
not to let the virus's loose on my system. I just happened to know about the
virus's before hand. That may or maynot be a good idea, just adds anxiety to
the install process, but I must have checked the code and check code about 5
times before I hit the install button. Very nerve racking.
>They are now spreading rumors that say "customers who enter their unlock
>keys incorrectly will have their CD-R discs ruined and files on their
>system deleted". This is completely untrue! The new keys were designed
>to prevent them from being entered incorrectly (this is what the "check
>key" is used for). We challenge anybody to enter their codes incorrectly
>and have the software accept them!
>The only people who are being screwed by our new protection scheme are
>the software pirates, *not* legitimate customers. No customer has ever
>contacted us with problems related to the protection scheme.
Well, I have to take your word for it. I know the copy I bought works too good!
Not only does 3.3d work better than the older versions but I dont have
problems with burning of data that is more than 740 megs on a CD. Truly a good
program and it works flawlessly.
>You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
>have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
>credit card fraud over the Internet.
Jeff, you have to calm down, pirates have been around alot longer than you or
I and you are going to have a stroke if you keep up this constant anger. You ,
me and anyone else for that matter will never stop pirates. If it was possible
the Government would have along time ago. Criminals and credit card fraud will
always happen too. Its just part of business. If you are worried about credit
card fraud, email me and ill tell you how you will never get ripped off by
credit card fraud again. The knowledge was part of a job that I had for 6
years agaisnt CC Fraud.
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
Scott Demos wrote:
>
[Jeff Arnold:]
> >every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
> >the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
> >time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
> >or installation instructions.
>
> This is the part you wrote. I dont blame you for being cranky about that, but
> you do have to remember that your software is good and all the people that use
> it are not that "good" at reading or following instructions. You will notice
> that under this section you are reading right now, that I didnt write the
> lines that start with agreed. I dont know how someone got double quote marks
> on my original post because as you know, I did buy the software.
Scott, though I've been adept with digital technologies for more than 20
years, I was a newcomer to this CDR stuff a few months ago, and read
everything I could on CDRs. That's why I bought CDRWin, without even
running the demo. I believe I was also the one who first used the word
"cranky" on this newsgroup in reference to Jeff's attitude.
In terms of someone being "good at reading or following instructions", I
have to say that Jeff's help files are simply *poor*.
Examples:
-- Half the terminology makes no sense if you don't already know it, and
there's no explanation, such as Joliet filenames, what exactly copy
protection disable enables, and so forth.
-- Ever try to put in a UPC code? It won't accept the US UPC code, but
gives no clue on what code it wants, nor how to create the European code
I eventually found it requires. I searched everywhere and eventually
gave up, putting in a bogus version of my standard US UPC code. (The
missing piece: For CDs, which US country code is used of the several
assigned us?).
-- What name does one assign to an .iso file? I ended up guessing it was
just a dummy name, but there's no explanation of that.
-- The explanation and examples of cue sheets are spotty, and make it
unclear (for example) how to mark continuous files (such as a symphony
without breaks) with separate cue numbers.
-- Why does "record disk" mean audio, but "tools" include recording at
data disk? No explanation.
-- What does close session/disk do? What is the difference between
closing a session or a disk? How does one know the difference? Does one
need to close an audio disk?
There are many more examples. Jeff's help files are among the worst I've
seen in a program that costs more than, say, $10 shareware. It wouldn't
take much for Jeff to hire a literate technical editor to do this
document. He's just no tech writer (And who am I to criticize? A guy who
makes his living doing tech writing and editing).
Likewise, as an RCD-1000 owner, Jeff's answers to my (very few)
questions carried the tone of "get a real burner" when I asked how to do
DAE. My unit was used, a gift, and all I could afford after buying a
SCSI card and CDRWin. Could he know that? Should he have? Or should he
simply have been polite and complete in his help and explanations? (I
had already done quite a bit of reading to make sure I had the unit
upgraded, so he wasn't holding my hand.) CDRWin won't do this job with
the RCD-1000. That answer from Jeff, along with a pointer to the
shareware that *does* do it, would have been very helpful, in place of
what amounted to a dismissal of my question.
Finally, when Jeff started his ill-fated listserv, it would accept my
subscription and deliver digests, but not accept posts. Jeff's answer
was again, in effect, "subscribe again you dummy" and "it's not my
software". After several tries, I gave this up as well. Jeff shortly
ended the listserv due to "abuse" which, if his answers to others were
typical, was not undeserved.
So what's my point? That CDRWin functions quite well -- in what it does
well. Its help system is 1980's-style hopeless, illogical and full of
assumptions about the user. And Jeff's attitude is, frankly, somewhat
shameful (and from a fellow New Englander at that!). In all the
repetitive messages in response to the malicious coding he was accused
of, you'll notice that he has *not* denied the presence of a deliberate
malicious coding -- only that accidental mistyping will not trigger it.
If he states "there is no such coding of any kind", then I will accept
that. To date, he has not done so, which leads me to assume that there
*is* malicious coding present to thwart specific known pirated keys.
I agree with you that Jeff should chill. He's done his work on the
software. A competent person to assist him in building a *real* help
file is the next step. Finally, he could use a good course in customer
relations.
Best to you,
Dennis
http://www.maltedmedia.com/
Jeffery K. Hughes
S wrote in message <34aeb832...@news.minnmicro.com>...
> Jeff,
>
> I don't use your product but I do write and distibute software
>and have for 25 years. I "think" I have a clue about the business.
>
>>You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>>every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>>the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>>time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>>or installation instructions.
>
> Excuse me, but this is called customer service and is a cost
>of doing business. If you don't want to do the service I recommend
So Steve,
Tell me what product do you distribute, so that I can call you up and
ask you how to use it, even if I don't pay for it. Answering questions
about PSX copying for legitimate customers would not be a problem for Mr.
Arnold. Answering it for the ungodly amounts of 14 year old PSX players is.
I would be willing to bet that most of Goldenhawks LEGITIMATE customers
don't need to call and ask how to PIRATE other peoples software. I have
been a customer of Goldenhawk for over two years now and have never had any
problems with his software. And I too develop software, and fully support
Mr. Arnold in his method of creating coasters for pirated copies. Of course
all the pirates out there would like Mr. Arnold to post a simple map of his
executable, "To ensure that I have spent many hours of work in vain, please
change these bytes here!". C'mon. Give the guy a break he's only trying to
receive what is rightfully his.
Jeff Hughes
<<<___ Bob ___>>>
Jeff Arnold wrote:
> You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
> every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
> the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
> time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
> or installation instructions.
> The only people who are being screwed by our new protection scheme are
> the software pirates, *not* legitimate customers. No customer has ever
> contacted us with problems related to the protection scheme.
>
> You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
> have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
> credit card fraud over the Internet.
>
> Jeff Arnold
> Golden Hawk Technology
>
That said, I think Mr. Arnold needs to either hire a PR guy to handle
Customer "SERVICE" or switch to another line of work. I doubt that I'd
ever knowingly buy a product that I ever expected any support for from
someone with his attitude. If his customers' "stupid" questions bother him
so much, he needn't be in the business of supplying the general public with
a product that requires post-purchase support.
I also have to make note of the fact that nowhere does he actually deny the
"coding" he has been so abundantly accused of . . . he merely shrugs it off
by stating that he's not received any complaints - not admitting nor denying
the accusations. Hmmmm . . .
Myself, I don't need or even want his software enough to either pirate or
purchase it, and even if I did have need for it, I seriously doubt I would
support his or any other company that openly castigates it's customers in
this manner.
<<<__BOB__>>>
Mr_Happy
Hi fellow CD-R software users,
Hi Steve, I have to say that I couldn’t agree with you more. I
have done my homework and decided on a CDROM recorder ,a Yamaha CDR ,
from what I read it will do disc-at-once or DAO , and track-at-once
recording ,next, I started to do my research on the CDROM recording
software that I would be using. I have to be honest after reading all
the talk of problems with Jeff Arnold of Golden Hawk Technology ,
there is no way that I would buy his program. From what I can pull
out from his posts he might decide to deny me the opportunity to ask
questions, questions that any normal software developer would call
tech support. I don’t claim to know a lot about Multisession CD , DAO
, Audio Mixed-Mode , ISO9660 , redbook and yellowbook stuff and I
will read all FAQ’s, help files and info that I can, but if I need
some help with the software that I’m buying, I think the software
seller/author is the logical person to go to. It sounds like Jeff
Arnold is not going to give me that help, he is annoyed by his
customers, what a dope…
Jeff Arnold lost business by writing:
From: Jeff Arnold <jar...@mainstream.net>
Newsgroups: comp.publish.cdrom.hardware
Subject: Re: Jeff Arnold of Golden Hawk Technology.
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 13:41:56 -0500
Organization: Golden Hawk Technology
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<34a6ca86...@news.supernews.com>
<34a6db05...@news.telepac.pt> <34aa1cb1...@news.cafe.net>
<34ac594e...@news2carrot.hare.net>
<34a6a2f6....@news.alt.net>
<24C3919081C7D011957...@ip3-99.nildram.co.uk>
<34af1f65...@news.direct.ca>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
--
…You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
or installation instructions…
Okay "cranky" guy, I’ll leave you alone, you won’t see any of my
money, and if anyone else spends money with you then they are kind of
dopey too because with an attitude like this, you won’t be in business
very long, and we’ll be stuck with an outdated unsupported piece of
software. Go on a rant Jeff, it works for Dennis Miller, do you think
that it will help you if you act in a similar fashion? Not this time…
Good riddance,
Mr_Happy
--
On 3 Jan 1998 15:25:00 -0700, S...@minnmicro.com (S) wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I don't use your product but I do write and distibute software
>and have for 25 years. I "think" I have a clue about the business.
>
>>You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>>every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>>the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>>time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>>or installation instructions.
>
> Excuse me, but this is called customer service and is a cost
David Kazinzki
On Sat, 03 Jan 1998 06:12:14 GMT, elec...@circuit.com (Electron)
wrote:
>ran...@smart.net wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>This is not true Dana, take apart Jeff's program and you will clearly
>>>see that he also has the program DELETE *.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
>>>files, this IS clear destruction of private property.
>
>
>>Come on guy, there is no such program in CDRWIN. I have taken it apart
>>and can't find any reference to it. You sound like one of the pirates
>
>Noop not a pirate, thought you'd make a comment like that, AGAIN I
>just pulled apart one of his latest versions and YES it IS in there
>and no it personally dosen't bother me, I'm not trying to run a
>pirated copy of it, period. Pull apart 3.2d and you'll see it's not
>there and then pull apart 3.3d and you'll find it.
When you say "pull it apart", do you mean:
1) Go thru it laboriously with a debugger and disassembler, or
2) Look for strings such as "*.MPD" or "\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS\"?
Miguel Amorim
On Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:34:32 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
<bat...@maltedmedia.com> wrote:
>[Jeff Arnold:]
>> >You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>> >every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>> >the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>> >time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>> >or installation instructions.
>, as an RCD-1000 owner, Jeff's answers to my (very few)
>questions carried the tone of "get a real burner" when I asked how to do
>DAE. My unit was used, a gift, and all I could afford after buying a
>SCSI card and CDRWin. Could he know that? Should he have? Or should he
>simply have been polite and complete in his help and explanations? (I
>had already done quite a bit of reading to make sure I had the unit
>upgraded, so he wasn't holding my hand.) CDRWin won't do this job with
>the RCD-1000. That answer from Jeff, along with a pointer to the
>shareware that *does* do it, would have been very helpful, in place of
>what amounted to a dismissal of my question.
Luckily, with the same amount of money you had then, today could buy
an ATAPI EIDE Sony 928 unit, and of course, totally avoid any
SCSI/EIDE or SCSI/PCIinterface card whatsoever.
Adaptec's profits were going up at the time due to this situation,
but now that's no longer the case. Interface cards will be fading
away, as far as the marketplace is concerned, with more and more
ATAPI EIDE CD-R devices.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
|..Miguel Amorim
|..Internet: mf...@total.net - or - mf...@geocities.com
|..http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/delta/3065
|..http://members.trip od.com/~mfcam
|..Navigator.Eudora.Forte & Secret Agent.ws_ftp.NetTerm.mIRC.Trumpet
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Demos
>Likewise, as an RCD-1000 owner, Jeff's answers to my (very few)
>questions carried the tone of "get a real burner" when I asked how to do
>DAE. My unit was used, a gift, and all I could afford after buying a
>SCSI card and CDRWin. Could he know that? Should he have? Or should he
>simply have been polite and complete in his help and explanations? (I
>had already done quite a bit of reading to make sure I had the unit
>upgraded, so he wasn't holding my hand.) CDRWin won't do this job with
>the RCD-1000. That answer from Jeff, along with a pointer to the
>shareware that *does* do it, would have been very helpful, in place of
>what amounted to a dismissal of my question.
>Finally, when Jeff started his ill-fated listserv, it would accept my
>subscription and deliver digests, but not accept posts. Jeff's answer
>was again, in effect, "subscribe again you dummy" and "it's not my
>software". After several tries, I gave this up as well. Jeff shortly
>ended the listserv due to "abuse" which, if his answers to others were
>typical, was not undeserved.
>So what's my point? That CDRWin functions quite well -- in what it does
>well. Its help system is 1980's-style hopeless, illogical and full of
>assumptions about the user. And Jeff's attitude is, frankly, somewhat
>shameful (and from a fellow New Englander at that!). In all the
>repetitive messages in response to the malicious coding he was accused
>of, you'll notice that he has *not* denied the presence of a deliberate
>malicious coding -- only that accidental mistyping will not trigger it.
>If he states "there is no such coding of any kind", then I will accept
>that. To date, he has not done so, which leads me to assume that there
>*is* malicious coding present to thwart specific known pirated keys.
>I agree with you that Jeff should chill. He's done his work on the
>software. A competent person to assist him in building a *real* help
>file is the next step. Finally, he could use a good course in customer
>relations.
>Best to you,
>Dennis
>http://www.maltedmedia.com/
I pretty much agree with what you are saying here. He would sell alot more
copies of the software and be able to tech support it without the need of him
being there just by writing the help files better. I was experienced in
burning and I did have a problem, it was related to his software but it wasnt
a problem that he needed to be involved with (even though I did ask for help
from him, then I cancelled the request) Another person on here has the exact
same layout as mine and told me Something I would never have guessed. That too
should be in the help file. I, being a salesman, would be able to sell the
hell out of this software. I could market it to large mailorder houses that I
have an in with. I do export for the larger ones as it is. But I wouldnt be
able to attempt such a thing, just for the fact that if someone called him,
they would end up complaining to the seller and the account would be cancelled.
Its too bad. CDRWIN could be sitting at Compusa right now!
Scott Demos
>S wrote in message <34aeb832...@news.minnmicro.com>...
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I don't use your product but I do write and distibute software
>>and have for 25 years. I "think" I have a clue about the business.
>>
>>>You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
>>>every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
>>>the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
>>>time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
>>>or installation instructions.
>>
>> Excuse me, but this is called customer service and is a cost
>>of doing business. If you don't want to do the service I recommend
>So Steve,
> Tell me what product do you distribute, so that I can call you up and
>ask you how to use it, even if I don't pay for it. Answering questions
>about PSX copying for legitimate customers would not be a problem for Mr.
>Arnold. Answering it for the ungodly amounts of 14 year old PSX players is.
>I would be willing to bet that most of Goldenhawks LEGITIMATE customers
>don't need to call and ask how to PIRATE other peoples software. I have
>been a customer of Goldenhawk for over two years now and have never had any
>problems with his software. And I too develop software, and fully support
>Mr. Arnold in his method of creating coasters for pirated copies. Of course
>all the pirates out there would like Mr. Arnold to post a simple map of his
>executable, "To ensure that I have spent many hours of work in vain, please
>change these bytes here!". C'mon. Give the guy a break he's only trying to
>receive what is rightfully his.
> Jeff Hughes
I can see if he is angry about 14 year olds asking how to pirate PSX cd's.
Its a waste of his time. But he doesnt have a right to sell the software then
call the users of it "stupid" as a whole. Im 33, I bought the software for the
mere fact that I had a copy of it before I bought it. It works. Anything that
works and does what I want, I pay for. I buy all the software, and I back it
all up too. This program backs up every single thing I have used it on, from
playstation to my 600 dollar HTML software. I think I would die if I couldnt
copy that for backup, knowing that its possible for the disc to be ruined at
any time and having to dish out another large chunk of money for something I
already own.
When I called him, I could tell in his voice, that I was bothering him. I was
paying for software that I already had a copy of, freely admiting it to him
and paying for it, yet I still got an attitude from him. If it wasnt for the
copy I got from another country, I would never have bought the software on
someone just saying it works. (even though the software is priced too low in
my book!) He just needs customer service skills and he will go far!
Scott Demos
>>>Come on guy, there is no such program in CDRWIN. I have taken it apart
>>>and can't find any reference to it. You sound like one of the pirates
>>
>>Noop not a pirate, thought you'd make a comment like that, AGAIN I
>>just pulled apart one of his latest versions and YES it IS in there
>>and no it personally dosen't bother me, I'm not trying to run a
>>pirated copy of it, period. Pull apart 3.2d and you'll see it's not
>>there and then pull apart 3.3d and you'll find it.
>When you say "pull it apart", do you mean:
>1) Go thru it laboriously with a debugger and disassembler, or
>2) Look for strings such as "*.MPD" or "\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS\"?
The program has the delete in it. I own the software. Until Jeff Arnold says
that it doesnt, since he hasnt ever lied about it, just hasnt said one way or
another, then it has it in there and thats that!
When he makes a statment on it, then people that have bought it have a right
to complain. But, there really no telling how many pieces of software on the
market have things similair to that. Everyone doesnt take apart all software
looking for it. Companies have done it before and the Government nailed them
to a cross for doing it ONLY when it goes off by legal copies of it being
executed.
Philip J. Koenig
In article <34aeb832...@news.minnmicro.com>, S...@minnmicro.com writes...
> Jeff,
>
> I don't use your product but I do write and distibute software
> and have for 25 years. I "think" I have a clue about the business.
>
> >You would be "cranky" too if you had a million people calling you
> >every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
> >the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
> >time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
> >or installation instructions.
>
> Excuse me, but this is called customer service and is a cost
> find someone who does. If you want to charge people for a product the
> service comes as part of the package. You can define the terms of
> service and charge people the moon for it but someone has to do the
> job. Most smart business people use it as an income flow.
>
> I've told people for more years that I like to think what
> frigging manual page they should look at for the exact answer they
> want. It's tiresome, it's overwhelming sometimes but they have a right
> to ask.
>
> And YOU have a responsibility to answer in some fashion.
>
> In other words, copy protection issues aside, this is simply
> whining......
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
So Mr. Ingrate, noone locked Jeff Arnold in a room and forced him to
release freeware that thousands of people of use to make nice CDRs.
As for service, I was in that business for many years (consulting now)
and some people are plain and simply clueless. The more computers
become as ubiquitous as toasters, the more idiotic questions everyone
will have to answer.
Most big companies like Adaptec just install an auto-attendant, put you
into a never-ending telephone queue when you call for support, bill you
$3.00/min for the privelege, won't discuss anything that doesn't make
their product sound like it's the best thing since the microchip, hires
dimwit "support" people that know about enough to boot the computer and
click on the program icon (unless you fight with them for an hour, on
*your* dime of course, to attempt to reach someone with a clue) etc etc
ad nauseum.
Shareware authors provide a great service, particularly with products
like Jeff's which are one of the best regarded ones, regardless that they
are competing with companies 5,000 times their size.
Furthermore, I tend to believe Jeff's story about the false rumors, rather
than all the lamerz that wanna make c00l copeyz of their gamez and wAReZ
and won't pay $70 dollars for the software to do it. (to run on their 300 Mhz
PII system)
Phil
--
Philip J. Koenig Computers & Communications [see below]
References to my email address in this message have been modified to foil
address-collection robots. If you wish to send email, use the following
address by removing numbers and spaces: pjk29@crl46 . c o m
Goran Marinic
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote in message <34AEF5...@maltedmedia.com>...
<cut>
I think you do exaggerate. I admit that thelp files could be better, but
they do give sufficient explanation for almost everything. Oh, and "Record
Disc" option is used for recording anything which has a cue sheet, something
you might not want to bother with if you only want to record an ISO image.
Not to mention that, among the cue sheet examples, there is the one with a
single WAV turned into several CDDA tracks.
He does reply rather curtly, but has been correct on every dubious point I
wanted straigthened. Not that I asked how to copy PSX discs <g>.
Euler
Miguel Amorim <mf...@bigfoot.com> schrieb im Beitrag
> Luckily, with the same amount of money you had then, today could buy
> an ATAPI EIDE Sony 928 unit, and of course, totally avoid any
> SCSI/EIDE or SCSI/PCIinterface card whatsoever.
Now he has infested even this thread with his gospel... the world revolves
around that sony 928!
TimV
Miguel Amorim wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:34:32 -0500, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
> <bat...@maltedmedia.com> wrote:
>
> >[Jeff Arnold:]
> >> >every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation discs. Most of
> >> >the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
> >> >time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
> >> >or installation instructions.
>
> >questions carried the tone of "get a real burner" when I asked how to do
> >DAE. My unit was used, a gift, and all I could afford after buying a
> >SCSI card and CDRWin. Could he know that? Should he have? Or should he
> >simply have been polite and complete in his help and explanations? (I
> >had already done quite a bit of reading to make sure I had the unit
> >upgraded, so he wasn't holding my hand.) CDRWin won't do this job with
> >the RCD-1000. That answer from Jeff, along with a pointer to the
> >shareware that *does* do it, would have been very helpful, in place of
> >what amounted to a dismissal of my question.
>
> an ATAPI EIDE Sony 928 unit, and of course, totally avoid any
> SCSI/EIDE or SCSI/PCIinterface card whatsoever.
>
> but now that's no longer the case. Interface cards will be fading
> away, as far as the marketplace is concerned, with more and more
> ATAPI EIDE CD-R devices.
>
> +---------------------------------------------------------------------
> |..Miguel Amorim
> |..Internet: mf...@total.net - or - mf...@geocities.com
> |..http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/delta/3065
> |..http://members.trip od.com/~mfcam
> |..Navigator.Eudora.Forte & Secret Agent.ws_ftp.NetTerm.mIRC.Trumpet
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------
But then he would have gotten the same answer, since Goldenhawk products
do not work with EIDE. So the most powerful software on the market is
unusable in this brand new EIDE drive you've bought. One more reason to
forget that POS and buy a real drive.
TimV
S
>
>So Mr. Ingrate, noone locked Jeff Arnold in a room and forced him to
>release freeware that thousands of people of use to make nice CDRs.
First,
I don't see how I can be considered and ingrate, I SAID
upfront I don't use his software. Therefore I can't be acused of
ingratitude towards him. I believe if he wants to sell the product,
those who bought it have a right to service. No complaining about the
quality of their questions.
>
>As for service, I was in that business for many years (consulting now)
>and some people are plain and simply clueless. The more computers
>become as ubiquitous as toasters, the more idiotic questions everyone
>will have to answer.
It seems to me you made a good decision in leaving that job,
You obviously don't have the right attitude for a customer service
position.
On the most mudane level, when you need to return something at
a department store are you ridiculed because you don't know the way to
fill out the return forms?? No, that nice customer service person
behind the counter points to the boxes and you fill them in.
A clueless customer is not an excuse for bad customer service.
Steve
Miguel Amorim
On Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:31:40 -0600, TimV <tvanw...@ou.edu> wrote:
>> Luckily, with the same amount of money you had then, today could buy
>> an ATAPI EIDE Sony 928 unit, and of course, totally avoid any
>> SCSI/EIDE or SCSI/PCIinterface card whatsoever.
>>
>> Adaptec's profits were going up at the time due to this situation,
>> but now that's no longer the case. Interface cards will be fading
>> away, as far as the marketplace is concerned, with more and more
>> ATAPI EIDE CD-R devices.
>But then he would have gotten the same answer, since Goldenhawk products
>do not work with EIDE. So the most powerful software on the market is
>unusable in this brand new EIDE drive you've bought. One more reason to
>forget that POS and buy a real drive.
What is the most powerful software on the market?!
If you mean Goldenhawk products, do you actually think I'd try to
use a program with a virus imbedded in itself?!
You're not the person I thought you were. :-P
Anyway, there are PLENTY of software products for the Sony 928.
They are the following :
Nero 3.0
Gear 4.2
WinOnCD 3.5
Easy CD Creator 3.0
DirectCD
EZCDPRO 95 (not sure)
etc. etc. etc.
Indeed, the above all work with my EIDE unit.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk wrote:
>
> Adaptec and Goldenhawk are hardly companies of the same ilk. I could stick up
> an unprotected ZIP of Easy CD Creator on a web page today and publicise its
> location right here. And Adaptec's lawyers would kill me.
Yes, and worse -- they'd play with you first. <grin>
> Adaptec is a
> huge corporation, while Goldenhawk appears to be Jeff's living.
Last I heard (from Jeff himself), Goldenhawk was more like a hobby; he works for a
corporation rather bigger than Adaptec (no, it's not Microsoft).
--
Best regards, Deirdre' Straughan
"Largo al factotum del CD-R"
Adaptec Software Products Group
Got a question about CD-R? Get help from other users through the Adaptec CD-R list.
http://listserv.adaptec.com/
Grumpy Bear
On Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:31:40 -0600, TimV <tvanw...@ou.edu> wrote:
>Miguel Amorim wrote:
>> Luckily, with the same amount of money you had then, today could buy
>> an ATAPI EIDE Sony 928 unit, and of course, totally avoid any
>> SCSI/EIDE or SCSI/PCIinterface card whatsoever.
>>
>> Adaptec's profits were going up at the time due to this situation,
>> but now that's no longer the case. Interface cards will be fading
>> away, as far as the marketplace is concerned, with more and more
>> ATAPI EIDE CD-R devices.
>But then he would have gotten the same answer, since Goldenhawk products
>do not work with EIDE. So the most powerful software on the market is
>unusable in this brand new EIDE drive you've bought. One more reason to
>forget that POS and buy a real drive.
Hehehe.. Sorry, I just had to chuckle over this reply.
Now that Miguel is also a stock analyst, mabey he also has some
predictions for the end of the world. [Don't forget to check your
Magic 8 Ball(tm)]
Just my 2 bits (or half a nibble)
Furry Code 1.2
FUGf5ads A-- C- D+ H+ M P++++ R++ T+++ W-- Z Sm
RLCT/E* a cadln+++ d e+ f+ h- iw++ p+ sm
[don't reply via email since the FROM: and REPLY-TO: email addresses are
invalid, If you need to email me, then substitute "grbear" for "no-spam"]
Grumpy Bear. (grbear)
Edmonton, Alberta, CANADA.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Philip J. Koenig wrote:
>
> Most big companies like Adaptec just install an auto-attendant, put you
> into a never-ending telephone queue when you call for support, bill you
> $3.00/min for the privelege, won't discuss anything that doesn't make
> their product sound like it's the best thing since the microchip, hires
> dimwit "support" people that know about enough to boot the computer and
> click on the program icon (unless you fight with them for an hour, on
> *your* dime of course, to attempt to reach someone with a clue) etc etc
> ad
Most big companies like Adaptec also don't have people like me cruising the Usenet, and
running a mailing list in order to stay in contact with customers. Where, by the way,
plenty of things are discussed that don't sound at all flattering to our software. (I used
to do tech support, but it got too big for one person online to handle;
sup...@adaptec.com works.)
Miguel Amorim
On Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:43:35 GMT, nos...@worldgate.com (Grumpy Bear)
wrote:
>>But then he would have gotten the same answer, since Goldenhawk products
>>do not work with EIDE. So the most powerful software on the market is
>>unusable in this brand new EIDE drive you've bought. One more reason to
>>forget that POS and buy a real drive.
>
>Hehehe.. Sorry, I just had to chuckle over this reply.
>
>Now that Miguel is also a stock analyst, mabey he also has some
>predictions for the end of the world. [Don't forget to check your
>Magic 8 Ball(tm)]
If it isn't on listed on the Dow Jones, the stock movement of the
entity known as "The World' is difficult to forsee.
How many shareholders does "The World" have?! Only a few billion!?
David
So by exdending your thinking, everthing that fails does so because of
rampant pirating?
The died because they where miss-run companies.
On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:42:36 GMT, jo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Really? stupid me here I was thinking that it was rampant pirating that killed
>the commodores,atari,and amigas.
David Kazinzki
On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 02:50:20, De...@interaccess.com (Scott Demos)
wrote:
>
>>>>Come on guy, there is no such program in CDRWIN. I have taken it apart
>>>>and can't find any reference to it. You sound like one of the pirates
>>>
>>>Noop not a pirate, thought you'd make a comment like that, AGAIN I
>>>just pulled apart one of his latest versions and YES it IS in there
>>>and no it personally dosen't bother me, I'm not trying to run a
>>>pirated copy of it, period. Pull apart 3.2d and you'll see it's not
>>>there and then pull apart 3.3d and you'll find it.
>
>>When you say "pull it apart", do you mean:
>
>>1) Go thru it laboriously with a debugger and disassembler, or
>>2) Look for strings such as "*.MPD" or "\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS\"?
>
>The program has the delete in it. I own the software.
Translation: "I used method #2". :^<
>Until Jeff Arnold says
>that it doesnt, since he hasnt ever lied about it, just hasnt said one way or
>another, then it has it in there and thats that!
As (1) jAKE of UCF2000 has gone thru CDRWin with a fine tooth comb
using method #1, _and_ (2) JA hasn't said that it does or doesn't, I
believe it isn't in there. As far as I am concerned, JA is just using
(good) scare tactics to keep people from pirating his software.
Just stick a few strings in the code that _say_ scary things, post a
couple of pseudo-anonymous rumors on the Usenet about this "malicious
code" and don't admit/deny it. I'm certain it scares some people
enough into either (1) buying his product or (2) not pirating it.
Dana Parker
S wrote:
>
> It seems to me you made a good decision in leaving that job,
> You obviously don't have the right attitude for a customer service
> position.
>
never been there very long. Customer service, BTW, is not the same as
technical support. Let me just give you some idea of what these people
are up against:
Salespeople make claims that the product is incapable of delivering.
Manufacturing changes a part in the package. Engineering specs a new
cable with different pin-outs. Programmers change code. Marketing yanks
a tech support person to help with a trade show. Shipping sends the
wrong piece to the wrong address. Management adds (or decreases) phone
lines. Customers do stupid things, scream at you when you're trying to
troubleshoot over the phone, and NEVER read the manual. Tech support
gets the blame, and EVERY time the phone rings, it's going to be someone
with a problem that you didn't cause, but that you are going to have to
fix. The only possible sane attitude to have in this situation is "I
don't care" - and you can't be in tech support if you don't care.
After nearly 20 years as a tech support and field engineer, I can tell
you one thing without reservations: there are a HELL of a lot more
abusive, rude, clueless customers than there are bad technical support
people.
>
Scott Demos
>What is the most powerful software on the market?!
GOLDENHAWKS PRODUCTS ARE! (Loud enough for you, do you understand now?)
>If you mean Goldenhawk products, do you actually think I'd try to
>use a program with a virus imbedded in itself?!
You couldnt if you wanted to. You have a 928 and its not supported, you just
mad because you got an EIDE drive as a present and not a REAL drive (SCSI).
Yes, You would use the software if you were able, you would not only use it,
but you would have no problem whatsoever using a pirated copy of it. I can
almost gaurantee that you havnt paid 1 dime for any of the programs you have
mentioned below (except for whatever came for free with the unit). This whole
thing is easy to determine because you have web sites, and they are ALL on
free servers like geocities and tripod, thus meaning that you want everything
you can get for free and wouldnt even spen any money to pay internic for a
domain name. Get a life, Get real, And get SCSI because the 928 doesnt take
cdrwin!
>You're not the person I thought you were. :-P
>Anyway, there are PLENTY of software products for the Sony 928.
>They are the following :
>Nero 3.0
>Gear 4.2
>WinOnCD 3.5
>Easy CD Creator 3.0
>DirectCD
>EZCDPRO 95 (not sure)
>etc. etc. etc.
>Indeed, the above all work with my EIDE unit.
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Demos
>>Until Jeff Arnold says
>>that it doesnt, since he hasnt ever lied about it, just hasnt said one way or
>>another, then it has it in there and thats that!
>As (1) jAKE of UCF2000 has gone thru CDRWin with a fine tooth comb
>using method #1, _and_ (2) JA hasn't said that it does or doesn't, I
>believe it isn't in there. As far as I am concerned, JA is just using
>(good) scare tactics to keep people from pirating his software.
>Just stick a few strings in the code that _say_ scary things, post a
>couple of pseudo-anonymous rumors on the Usenet about this "malicious
>code" and don't admit/deny it. I'm certain it scares some people
>enough into either (1) buying his product or (2) not pirating it.
If thats the case, then Jeff is pretty smart overall. But as Jeff has said, no
one has to worry about a thing as long as you purchase the copy of the
software. So, as long as the software works, (and its works better than I had
expected), im happy. However he wrote the software on the version 3.3d, I have
to take my hat off to him, as I beginning to think it will copy money! (theres
nothing I have run into that this software wont copy!)
Scott Demos
>It seems to me that either you've never been in tech support, or you've
>never been there very long. Customer service, BTW, is not the same as
>technical support. Let me just give you some idea of what these people
>are up against:
>Salespeople make claims that the product is incapable of delivering.
>Manufacturing changes a part in the package. Engineering specs a new
>cable with different pin-outs. Programmers change code. Marketing yanks
>a tech support person to help with a trade show. Shipping sends the
>wrong piece to the wrong address. Management adds (or decreases) phone
>lines. Customers do stupid things, scream at you when you're trying to
>troubleshoot over the phone, and NEVER read the manual. Tech support
>gets the blame, and EVERY time the phone rings, it's going to be someone
>with a problem that you didn't cause, but that you are going to have to
>fix. The only possible sane attitude to have in this situation is "I
>don't care" - and you can't be in tech support if you don't care.
>After nearly 20 years as a tech support and field engineer, I can tell
>you one thing without reservations: there are a HELL of a lot more
>abusive, rude, clueless customers than there are bad technical support
>people.
>>
Your right! There are more customers out there that are rude and just plain
assholes. I have done tech support for many products for a computer company
and everything you say is the truth. We even got sued one time for selling the
customer EXACTLY what he wanted, even though we told him that he didnt have
the knowledge to run the machine. He didnt care, after 10 days on the phone,
yelling and screaming at us, he decided to sue us. He lost because we had the
order form of what he wanted, filled out in his OWN hand writing and that was
the basic point to sue us, that we didnt provide equipment that works. It was
later proven that his son knew that it worked and told him what to buy so that
the kid could play with it. This guy never touched a PC in his life, he was 70
years old and wanted a PII 233 with NT 4.0 and 9.09 gigs, its was crazy!
Goran Marinic
TimV wrote in message <34AFAB...@ou.edu>...
>Miguel Amorim wrote:
>>
>
>But then he would have gotten the same answer, since Goldenhawk products
>do not work with EIDE. So the most powerful software on the market is
>unusable in this brand new EIDE drive you've bought. One more reason to
>forget that POS and buy a real drive.
I would agree completely, but unfortunately he didn't state which drive he
owns.
Miguel Amorim
>S wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me you made a good decision in leaving that job,
>> You obviously don't have the right attitude for a customer service
>> position.
>>
>It seems to me that either you've never been in tech support, or you've
>never been there very long. Customer service, BTW, is not the same as
>technical support. Let me just give you some idea of what these people
>are up against:
>The only possible sane attitude to have in this situation is "I
>don't care" - and you can't be in tech support if you don't care.
>After nearly 20 years as a tech support and field engineer, I can tell
>you one thing without reservations: there are a HELL of a lot more
>abusive, rude, clueless customers than there are bad technical support
>people.
When you're in the unemployment line, I guess companies will look at
your resume , and they might not care.
Miguel Amorim
On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:42:39, De...@interaccess.com (Scott Demos)
wrote:
>>What is the most powerful software on the market?!
>
>GOLDENHAWKS PRODUCTS ARE! (Loud enough for you, do you understand now?)
If that's the case, then why does almost NOBODY use that program?!
Are YOU the only person who KNOWS this special secret?! Is the
Goldenhawk program like the Dead Sea Scrolls?!
There's more than a single software program that can do the job.
And I don't understand what you're doing using it.
A normal burner and a normal program will burn your normal software.
Why do YOU REQUIRE the Goldenhawk feature of copying COMMERCIAL
software...?!
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black !!!
>>If you mean Goldenhawk products, do you actually think I'd try to
>>use a program with a virus imbedded in itself?!
>
>You couldnt if you wanted to. You have a 928 and its not supported, you just
>mad because you got an EIDE drive as a present and not a REAL drive (SCSI).
It wasn't a present. I purchased it with my hard earned cash !
Got it ?! Working !!! Duh.
>Yes, You would use the software if you were able, you would not only use it,
>but you would have no problem whatsoever using a pirated copy of it. I can
>almost gaurantee that you havnt paid 1 dime for any of the programs you have
>mentioned below (except for whatever came for free with the unit).
Actually, I've never even tried using MOST of them. If something
works, I don't worry about testing the other ones. That's not why I
bought a Sony 928... I am not a laboratory tester, software beta
tester, etc. etc. It's very lame of use to ASSUME that I actually
installed all of them, or ran them or examined them, etc.
All did was read the specs (SPECIFICATIONS) sheets of each program,
and if it said that it worked with the Sony 928, who am I to
contradict each software company's claims?!
Nero says it works with the 928. Gear says it work with the 928.
Easy CD Creator says it works with the 928. EZCDPRO95 apparently
says it works with the 928. Where's the problem?! Did I test each
one and waste a CD recordable in finding out?! Of course not ! Those
companies claimed something, and it's expected to be true. If they
say their software is functional with the Sony 928, why wouldn't it
be?!
>This whole
>thing is easy to determine because you have web sites, and they are ALL on
>free servers like geocities and tripod, thus meaning that you want everything
>you can get for free and wouldnt even spen any money to pay internic for a
>domain name. Get a life, Get real, And get SCSI because the 928 doesnt take
>cdrwin!
Why would I want a domain name?! UNBELIEVABLE !
And PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG with USING GEOCITIES, OR TRIPOD, OR
FORTUNE CITY OR ANGELFIRE's FREE WEB PAGES?!
What is wrong with using the FREE HOTMAIL web based email service?!
MicroSoft just BOUGHT THAT COMPANY!
What is wrong with using Bigfoot's free email service?!
What is wrong with using iNAME's free email service?!
What is wrong with using ROCKETMAIL's free web based email service?!
GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!
OVER ONE MILLION PEOPLE USE GEOCITIES AND TRIPOD !!!!
It sounds you're only interested in the Internet as a money-making
proposition.
To me, it's entertainment, learning, sharing tips and advice with
other people, and keeping up with what's hip. Money is what I pay to
my ISP at the end of each month.
You really know how to get people down....... :(
Steve Phelan
Well, as a *professional* software developer, I don't quite consider myself
one of 'you people', whatever that was supposed to mean...
The simple fact is, installing code that destroys a clients installed
operating system is a REAL DUMB THING to do, both from a technical and a
marketing perspective. Sure, I appreciate your problems with pirates - I
have to deal with that issue myself - but the number of posts on the
internet regarding this 'feature' of your product can't be helping your
reputation.
I for one was considering buying your product, but now? - no way.
I'm sure your corporate line will disagree with most of what I've said, but
I still think you are plain wrong on this issue. Still, best of luck with
your product - and I do mean that sincerely.
BTW, it also doesn't look to good when you try to make your audience look
dumb by accusing them of listening to 'asshole pirates' only; I didn't see
to many of these on this thread...
Steve Phelan.
paul wrote in message <68k0e0$4ms$1...@news1.i1.net>...
>You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
>have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
>credit card fraud over the Internet.
>Jeff Arnold
>Golden Hawk Technology
>WWW : http://www.goldenhawk.com
>EMAIL: jar...@goldenhawk.com
>
>
>
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
In article <34ae608...@NEWS.SMART.NET>,
ran...@smart.net wrote:
>
> Sorry guy I pulled apart 3.3d and there is no delete program or
> anything else like that in it. I guess you figure if you keep posting
> the same lies over and over, people will start to believe you. I would
> tell anyone if they have the expertise to look for youself in Jeffs
> program..and try to find a trojan horse. IT simply isn't there
>
Hey guy, you must be either blind or a complete ignorant.
Perhaps I can refresh your memory with some FACTS:
1. Try to register ANY of the 3.3-versions with the fake-keygen
"cdrwkey.com"(be sure it isn't infected by spanska.4250) and
you'll burn perfect coasters.
2. Try to register 3.3b and 3.3c versions with the well known
"Val Petru"-code. You'll burn coasters too.
3. Try to register 3.3c with "Val Petru" or "Robert Herrin".
Again perfect coasters.
4. Try to register 3.3d with "Val Petru" or "Robert Herrin" and
you'll see a message-box "call meg...@usa.net for new codes"
and all *.mpd-files in your win$uck\system\iosubsys directory
are deleted.
5. Change the entry "*.mpd" in cdrwin.exe into something else and
repeat step 4. NO files will be deleted!!!
So step 4 and 5 prove that cdrwin 3.3d deletes files. If you search
via dejanews for older postings of Jeff Arnold, you'll find his own
announcement for that (11-20-1997 in de.comp.periph.cdrom).
Here it is again:
> > Warning! As the pirates get closer and closer to breaking our
> > new keys, CDRWIN will start deleting files from your harddrive if
> > it detects a pirated key is being used. You've been warned...
BTW this "feature" is not only in CDRWin but in DAO also. And if you
have seen the last build (12-24-1997) of CDRWin, there's a new
register-screen that warns all people not to use pirated codes...
Michael
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Jeff Arnold
> After nearly 20 years as a tech support and field engineer, I can tell
> you one thing without reservations: there are a HELL of a lot more
> abusive, rude, clueless customers than there are bad technical support
> people.
I couldn't agree with you more...
Dana Parker
Gambler wrote:
> Granted there are lots of newbies out
> there who should be looked at as potential customers, not idiots!
> If I ever was inclined to purchase Arnold's software (which I am not),
> his attitude towards those who support him financially has ended the
> inclination! I have always supported the "little guy", but in Mr.
> Arnold's case, his attitude is WORSE than the big guy's!
Someone who swears he will never buy the SW is not a potential customer.
Someone who is rude and abusive because of an unconfirmed rumor
promulgated in Usenet, but expects to be treated with courtesy anyway,
is not a desirable potential customer either - idiot would be a much
better description.
You seem to have ignored the posts from many legitimate owners of Jeff's
products, none of whom seem to have a problem with his attitude.
Dana Parker
Gambler wrote:
>
> It is also pretty funny that Mr. Arnold bitches about pirates, when
> his software is marketed to them (commercial and playstation copying).
Do you also find it amusing that manufacturers of photocopiers probably
would view the theft of their equipment unkindly? How about operating
system vendors who include "copy" commands - that's a real
knee-slapper. And hey, auto dealers sell cars that people can use for
illegal purposes like drunk driving, kidnapping, and drive-by shootings.
They've got no right to have objections to cars being stolen; after all,
they're "marketing" the cars to people who might commit crimes with
them.
a...@amber.m.isar.de
AHH! Finally, Jeff is speaking ... it was about time, wasn't it?
jar...@mainstream.net wrote:
[...]
> the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete waste of
> time because the customers don't even bother to read the help file
> or installation instructions.
Come on ... as a developer, you should be used to this behaviour, no?
:-DDD
But, to be more serious: You really should get used to it. This is the
usual behaviour of users/customers, and if you can't manage it you really
should think about getting a secretary as a buffer or stopping to
develope. You just can't change people.
[...]
> They are now spreading rumors that say "customers who enter their unlock
> keys incorrectly will have their CD-R discs ruined and files on their
> system deleted". This is completely untrue! The new keys were designed
> to prevent them from being entered incorrectly (this is what the "check
> key" is used for). We challenge anybody to enter their codes incorrectly
> and have the software accept them!
So why didn't you post this much earlier? This would have cleared things
and prevented a useless thread from going on much too long!
> The only people who are being screwed by our new protection scheme are
> the software pirates, *not* legitimate customers. No customer has ever
> contacted us with problems related to the protection scheme.
Of course not, if there is not protection scheme like deleting some files
by your program.
> You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
> have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
> credit card fraud over the Internet.
Jeff, think about it this way: There is a rumour that a certain software
might screw up my (the legal customer's) machine, deleting files and all
that. There *have* been companies doing things like these in the past, so
this wouldn't be the first case, thus increasing the probability of the
rumour being true.
Furthermore, at least developers know that software is not 100% error-
free. Thus, it could happen that I enter my legal code, but making a typo.
So, the software accepts it cause it fits into the scheme, but after a
certain time the "protection" scheme shows up as it had identified my
number with the typo as a "pirate" number, deleting what it decides to
delete. The probability is VERY low, I admit, but it's there nevertheless.
Or, even worse, the program has a bug that causes the scheme to screw my
machine because the subroutine is activated accidently cause of the bug.
This is a Damocles Sword that no customer loves to have above his machine.
We all have enough to do handling the bugs from Billy's OS bugware ...
And _then_, there is a thread about this in the newsgroups, getting worse
and worse, more and more emotionally, and all that the accused company
does, is being silent.
Regarding all this, think twice: Wouldn't you be a little upset or at
least think about installing the product, too?
Thanx for the final clarification.
Cheers,
apo
#############################################################################
# Das Komitee ist eine Sackgasse, in die Ideen hineingelockt und dann in #
# Ruhe erdrosselt werden. #
# Unknown origin #
#############################################################################
Dana Parker
Jeff Lightfoot wrote:
>
> On Mon, 05 Jan 1998 15:33:33 -0700, Dana Parker
> <dana...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >You seem to have ignored the posts from many legitimate owners of Jeff's
> >products, none of whom seem to have a problem with his attitude.
>
> (mine included) of potential buyers that see his bad attitude towards
> his customers.
Read it again. I have not seen ONE post from a legitimate owner of the
SW who has complained about a "bad attitude". I have seen nothing but
praise from legitimate customers - the complaints are coming from those
who have stolen the SW and tried to hack it or are reacting to
unsubstantiated rumors by saying they will NEVER buy the SW. Including
you.
FROG
S
Geez,
You just don't get it, that's like preaching to the choir!!
The legitimate customers don't complain, fine. Who cares???
If he's trying to sell the product it doesn't matter all that much if
the current customers are happy and he scares off his potential new
customers.
He's GOT his current customers money, he NEEDs the new customers.
A happy customer tells 3 friends an unhappy customer tells 100.
Steve
George Kerber
> >that will delete files, or no program DELETE *.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS
> You will need to look in version 3.3d. The code does not
> appear in versions 3.3c or earlier.
How are you finding these strings in the cdrwin program? I have a unix
like program called "strings" that can find ascii text in a binary file, or
some binary editors can find text.
In C code, if Jeff issued a "delete ..." command (assuming a delete()
function call exists) in his source code, that text from the *.c ( or
*.cpp) file WOULD NOT APPEAR in the executable. If he attempted to issue a
system("DELETE ...") command from c, that string WOULD appear in the
executable. On my W95 system, there is no DOS level DELETE command. So,
even the cdrwin program did contain this text, I really doubt that it is
executable code that would have any effect on your system.
I can only conclude that if it does exist, then Jeff did it just to confuse
us. As a programmer myself, I can't imaging what "DELETE
*.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS" seen as text in a *.exe file could mean. I could
get that (or any other text) into the executable file, but not make it
execute! C source statements do not show up as readable text in the
resulting executable file, unless they are specifically declared as
strings, and they they wouldn't executable statements, just static text.
I just don't get it.
George
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If god wanted sex to be fun, he wouldn't have
included children as punishment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Lightfoot
>You seem to have ignored the posts from many legitimate owners of Jeff's
>products, none of whom seem to have a problem with his attitude.
Of course not. They have already bought it. What about the posts
(mine included) of potential buyers that see his bad attitude towards
his customers. Not to mention the fact there maybe something lurking
in his program that may cause harm to my system? He has never said it
wasn't there, just that it is unlikely that a real customer would
trigger it.
What we are now discussing is not if we should buy his program, but if
he is scaring off potential customers with both is attitude and
revenge tactics. He has lost this potential customer.
--
jeffml @ Jeff Lightfoot
pobox.com http://www.thefoots.com/
Jeff Lightfoot
>Read it again. I have not seen ONE post from a legitimate owner of the
>SW who has complained about a "bad attitude". I have seen nothing but
>praise from legitimate customers - the complaints are coming from those
>who have stolen the SW and tried to hack it or are reacting to
>unsubstantiated rumors by saying they will NEVER buy the SW. Including
>you.
I've seen two legit owners of his software dismayed by his attitude.
I am dismayed by his attitude. His attitude towards pirates is one
thing, but the attitude he has shown to his own customers is what is
amazing.
So the rumors abound and in his defense, Jeff states that no legit
user will be harmed. What does that say? It still leaves the
potential customers in the cold as to whether or not there is
something harmful in the program. (A rational mind would see his
comments suggesting that pirates will be harmed.)
I'm just a potential customer reacting to HIS comments. Nothing more,
nothing less.
Goran Marinic
S wrote in message <34b2b8f3...@news.minnmicro.com>...
>
>You just don't get it, that's like preaching to the choir!!
>
>The legitimate customers don't complain, fine. Who cares???
I do, of course.
>If he's trying to sell the product it doesn't matter all that much if
>the current customers are happy and he scares off his potential new
>customers.
It does, as you nicely put at the end.
>He's GOT his current customers money, he NEEDs the new customers.
We'll upgrade, so?
>A happy customer tells 3 friends an unhappy customer tells 100.
Yes, but what we're talking here are potential unhappy customer, and a few
of those current customers made panic by the previous.
Goran Marinic
Bugs BunnyŽ wrote in message <34b3c651...@news2carrot.hare.net>...
I have the software. Bought and paid for. Bought it quite a while ago,
actually.
Think it's a great product. I've supported Jeff for a long time, both
financially buy buying his products as well as recommending them to others.
However, this new attitude of his makes absolutely no sense from a business
perspective. No matter what his disdain for software pirates may be, the
fact is
he is loosing essentially no money due to the piracy (they wouldn't have
bought
it in the first place). And the fact that people ARE using it without having
paid him for it flat out pisses him off, which is certainly understandable.
So, in his completely unprofessional attempt at revenge he has run off more
potential customers that he would have ever lost in pirated revenues. Not
only
that, he's also lost a current customer, as well.
Could you explain how did he hurt you? His attitude is that pirates should
be ____ (fill in whatever you find appropriate), but how does that hurt you?
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
In article <34B16061...@uswest.net>,
George Kerber <gke...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> I can only conclude that if it does exist, then Jeff did it just to confuse
> us. As a programmer myself, I can't imaging what "DELETE
> *.MPD\SYSTEM\IOSUBSYS" seen as text in a *.exe file could mean. I could
> get that (or any other text) into the executable file, but not make it
> execute!
the "blacklist", such as "Val Petru" or "Robert Herrin".
If you change *.mpd into *.vxd, then all your VXDs will be deleted...
If you change it into e.g. *.zzz then nothing is deleted exept you
have *.zzz-files in your iosubsys-directory.
And here's some news I just found out:
EVEN THE DEMO OF CDRWIN3.3D IS ABLE TO DELETE THOSE FILES!!!!!
Since the string mentioned above is also in the demo you can figure
it out for yourself just as I did. Just register an older full version
of CDRWin 3.3 to "Val Petru" or "Robert Herrin" and then only copy
the cdrwin.exe from the demo over the old one. Then start cdrwin.exe
but be sure to backup your MPDs first, they will be deleted!
So I ask myself why the demo is crippled (no CD-writing possible)
but able to delete system-files! I'm sure Jeff knows an answer...
pre...@pobox.com.nospammers
Even though I have never looked at or purchased anything from Jeff
Arnold or Golden Hawk Technology. I can say for sure after watching
him in action, that he or any company he is involved with will never
get any business from me or my company.
-tim
>On Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:38:11 -0500, Jeff Arnold
><jar...@mainstream.net> was heard to mutter:
Dana Parker
S wrote:
>
> The legitimate customers don't complain, fine. Who cares???
>
>
Riiiight. So an "unhappy customer" would say: "Hey, I stole this SW, but
I can't get it to work, and the technical support and attitude of the
vendor are really bad." Now there's a compelling reason not to buy the
SW.
If I were making a buying decision, I'd care a lot about what legitimate
customers say. People who complain about technical support or copy
protection of SW they don't own aren't unhappy customers or potential
customers - they're unhappy pirates or potential pirates.
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
In article <34AE86...@mainstream.net>,
Jeff Arnold <jar...@mainstream.net> wrote:
>
> The software pirates are upset because we have been actively trying to
> stop them from stealing our software and distributing it on the net.
>
Don't forget that you called all hackers "complete morons" long time
ago and waited for proper cracks! You surely remember that it took
months until 6-27-1997 when the 100%-keygen for DAO/CdRWin 3.1e was
spread. This keygen worked perfectly up to 3.2d. And did you succeed
in stopping the pirates - NO, your 3.3 version was cracked in some
weeks and meantime every new version is available the next day...
>
> They are now spreading rumors that say "customers who enter their unlock
> keys incorrectly will have their CD-R discs ruined and files on their
> system deleted". This is completely untrue! The new keys were designed
> to prevent them from being entered incorrectly (this is what the "check
> key" is used for). We challenge anybody to enter their codes incorrectly
> and have the software accept them!
>
noticed that those unlock codes were only "Val Petru" and "Robert Herrin"
ones. And everybody who tries to use these codes burnes coasters with
3.3c and gets his *.mpd-files deleted with 3.3d. So why do you still
deny the "delete-function" of 3.3d when everybody can figure it out
for himself? And why has even your crippled demo this "feature"?
And Jeff, don't forget the 11-20-1997, when you announced it yourself!
> You people shouldn't be listening to a group of asshole pirates who
> have nothing better to do with their time except steal and commit
> credit card fraud over the Internet.
>
Jeff, I'm no pirate and no asshole too, but I warned everybody in the
past, I warn everybody now and I will do so in the future because I
made enough bad experiences with your software. Maybe I'd bought it
long time ago if I could have tested it really. But you know best
that there are big differences between test- and write-mode...
Jeff, I told you once you're going the wrong way if you want to sell
something, and meanwhile many others think exactly like me.
And they are growing...
Dana Parker
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de wrote:
>
>> Jeff, I'm no pirate and no asshole too, but I warned everybody in the
> past, I warn everybody now and I will do so in the future because I
> made enough bad experiences with your software. Maybe I'd bought it
> long time ago if I could have tested it really.
So, you didn't buy it, but you've had "bad experiences" with it, even
though you couldn't really test it. You won't buy it, you'll warn others
not to buy it, even though you have no idea how good it is, because you
don't own it. And you think anybody's going to believe you would have
bought it or encouraged others to buy (not steal) it if it you'd had
GOOD experiences with it?
Jeff Lightfoot
>If I were making a buying decision, I'd care a lot about what legitimate
>customers say. People who complain about technical support or copy
>protection of SW they don't own aren't unhappy customers or potential
>customers - they're unhappy pirates or potential pirates.
Thanks. Instead of being rational and listening to my comments, you
call me a potential pirate? Your defense of his software/business
practices are extremely puzzling and I don't think your helping Jeff's
case. But why should you listen to anyone with an opinion, cause they
are a potential pirate. :-(
Dana Parker
Jeff Lightfoot wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:56:23 -0700, Dana Parker
> <dana...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >If I were making a buying decision, I'd care a lot about what legitimate
> >customers say. People who complain about technical support or copy
> >protection of SW they don't own aren't unhappy customers or potential
> >customers - they're unhappy pirates or potential pirates.
>
> Thanks. Instead of being rational and listening to my comments, you
> call me a potential pirate?
Make a rational comment, and I'll be happy to consider it. The above
quote was not addressed to you, but if you think it's rational to
complain about bad technical support for illegally obtained SW, I'm not
sure we're using the same definition of the word.
Your previous irrational comment was: What about the posts
>> (mine included) of potential buyers that see his bad attitude towards
>> his customers.
This is irrational in that the "bad attitude towards customers" that you
"see" has been established as nonexistent by unsolicited testimonials
from actual customers.
TimV
Dana,
I have the utmost respect for your contributions both here and to Emedia
Professional, but I think you are going too far overboard in your
defense of Jeff here. The fact still remains that apparently Jeff has
written a Trojan horse into his program. On it's face, this is quite
funny and just reward to those who steal his program. But on second
consideration, this is not only poor business pratice (not the virus
itself, but his defense of it in particular) but a bad idea. There is no
telling what good potentially set it off. I'm not a programmer myself,
but I would imagine that a corrupted file could cause it to execute the
delete command. There is no question that this is a virus and very
ethically suspect. Now if a real (purchased) unlock key was designed to
completely rewrite that portion of the file and remove the potential for
the subsequent destruction of system files, I'd be at least comforted.
There is at least anecdotal and circumstantial evidence that the delete
function is written into the code. Many people have reported finding it
there, and some have written that it did indeed delete files when
executed. Perhaps they are lying. But the fact that Jeff warned that he
would do this, his lack of a denial that this is indeed written into the
code and that I don't think all of these people are lying makes me
believe that it might be true. Even if it isn't, Jeff has frightened a
lot of people away from his product and his surly attitude here has made
me reconsider my frequent support and recommendations of his products.
Don't get me wrong, please. His product is the very best in my opinion
and I hope that Jeff sees the light. Software piracy is bad, but two
wrongs do not make a right. Including malicious code into your program
that intentionally destroys or alters files outside of your program
makes you no different than those that you oppose.
Of course, if the code is not really there, I sincerely apologise for
any accusation I might have implied.
On a side note. I was curious last night and decided to see for myself.
After about 5 minutes on dejanews I found a location with a current
keygenerator and copy of CDRWin 3.3d and gave it the old college try. It
didn't delete anything, nor did it create any coasters. I have since
deleted it from my system for several reasons: I do not own it, I do not
need it, and I do not want a potential trojan horse residing on my
system. So personally, I have not seen the delete function, so perhaps
it isn't there, but it may be that someone, urged on by Jeff's
challenge, really did crack the code. Again, I'm not a programmer, but
if you have the wherewithall to crack a code that complicated, you
should be doing far more fiscally rewarding endeavors with your time.
TimV
The reply to address is there so you don't email me asking where I found
this keygen. The only person I would consider giving this location to is
Jeff himself (although I imagine he is aware of it and is already taking
steps to change the codes in the next version). I no longer have a copy
of the program or keygen, so please don't ask me for either.
netcatZ
i see some CYA here... if you're so adamant about CDRWIN containing a
trojan horse, why don't you reverse engineer it and display for the
world to see...
Dana Parker
TimV wrote:
>
> I have the utmost respect for your contributions both here and to Emedia
> Professional, but I think you are going too far overboard in your
> defense of Jeff here.
Thanks for sharing.
Jeff Lightfoot
>This is irrational in that the "bad attitude towards customers" that you
>"see" has been established as nonexistent by unsolicited testimonials
>from actual customers.
Oh. Sorry. I saw his "bad attitude" from his own words and thoughts
about dealing with customers that consistently ask the same stupid
questions. What was I thinking.
Dana, you obviously won't rest until you have made sure to dismiss my
opinion as either irrational or based on the intent to pirate. I have
to repeat that I have formed this opinion from only Jeff's comments,
no one else's.
Dana Parker
Jeff Lightfoot wrote:
>
I have
> to repeat that I have formed this opinion from only Jeff's comments,
> no one else's.
You don't have to repeat - you never said this. If this is what you
meant, you didn't express it very well. And I did not, ever, accuse you
of being a pirate.
An expressed impatience with thieves and rude, abusive, clueless
"potential customers" does not necessarily indicate a "bad attitude" in
general towards customers. In other words, if several people own a copy
of SW and express satisfaction with tech support for it, I'm not going
to assume a "bad attitude" towards all customers from a remark about
jerks and thieves.
Scott Demos
>On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:42:39, De...@interaccess.com (Scott Demos)
>wrote:
>>>What is the most powerful software on the market?!
>>
>>GOLDENHAWKS PRODUCTS ARE! (Loud enough for you, do you understand now?)
>If that's the case, then why does almost NOBODY use that program?!
>Are YOU the only person who KNOWS this special secret?! Is the
>Goldenhawk program like the Dead Sea Scrolls?!
Almost nobody?? Jeffs software is talked about highly, alot of people have
bought it. Alot of people use it. It can do what would take about 15 separate
applications can do at one time. I have seen the posts by people like you
using 12 different utilities and then a pirate copy of Jeffs software to copy
everything from PSX to expensive software.
>There's more than a single software program that can do the job.
Yes there is, if you use 12-15 others you can get most of what Jeffs does in a
maximum of 19 minutes on a 4x4
>And I don't understand what you're doing using it.
>A normal burner and a normal program will burn your normal software.
No it wont. You have to do DAO in some cases and have the software NOT fix the
errors that the program looks for. You will see this happen to yourself when
you getto the point when it checks and your code was fixed, your program halts
and your on the phone with tech support.
>Why do YOU REQUIRE the Goldenhawk feature of copying COMMERCIAL
>software...?!
>Talk about the pot calling the kettle black !!!
I said already why, I back up PSX disks of which I own over $1000 bucks worth
of. I am an HTML programmer and I back up the STORE BOUGHT SOFTWARE that I
have due to the extreme cost of it. (ever try to tell a company that you
installed their software and the disk is bad after about a year?) They dont
beleive you. They will give you the newer version for 1/2 of the 600 bucks you
already spent when what you were using was fine.
>>>If you mean Goldenhawk products, do you actually think I'd try to
>>>use a program with a virus imbedded in itself?!
If you had a SCSI you would have a pirated copy of it, just like the other
kids!
>>You couldnt if you wanted to. You have a 928 and its not supported, you just
>>mad because you got an EIDE drive as a present and not a REAL drive (SCSI).
See above!
>It wasn't a present. I purchased it with my hard earned cash !
>Got it ?! Working !!! Duh.
>>Yes, You would use the software if you were able, you would not only use it,
>>but you would have no problem whatsoever using a pirated copy of it. I can
>>almost gaurantee that you havnt paid 1 dime for any of the programs you have
>>mentioned below (except for whatever came for free with the unit).
>Actually, I've never even tried using MOST of them. If something
>works, I don't worry about testing the other ones. That's not why I
>bought a Sony 928... I am not a laboratory tester, software beta
>tester, etc. etc. It's very lame of use to ASSUME that I actually
>installed all of them, or ran them or examined them, etc.
If you want to use the 928, thats fine with me, just dont go around slamming
people that own a machine and burners thats worth about 5 times what yours is
and then call them losers. You should be the last one to talk, you are 3.11
and pentium 133 (I beleive thats what you wrote), with 32 megs of ram (If not
16) and you try to tell ANYONE ANYTHING to do??? Get real, thats like pulling
up in a Ford Pinto and telling a racing team how to fix that valve knock in
their Honda V12 engines!
>All did was read the specs (SPECIFICATIONS) sheets of each program,
>and if it said that it worked with the Sony 928, who am I to
>contradict each software company's claims?!
>Nero says it works with the 928. Gear says it work with the 928.
>Easy CD Creator says it works with the 928. EZCDPRO95 apparently
>says it works with the 928. Where's the problem?! Did I test each
>one and waste a CD recordable in finding out?! Of course not ! Those
>companies claimed something, and it's expected to be true. If they
>say their software is functional with the Sony 928, why wouldn't it
>be?!
Its functional for the use you maybe putting it to, for me, its a piece of
shit. It would be like useing a screwdriver to pound a nail in to 5 inches of
wood, it isnt going to happen!
>>This whole
>>thing is easy to determine because you have web sites, and they are ALL on
>>free servers like geocities and tripod, thus meaning that you want everything
>>you can get for free and wouldnt even spen any money to pay internic for a
>>domain name. Get a life, Get real, And get SCSI because the 928 doesnt take
>>cdrwin!
>Why would I want a domain name?! UNBELIEVABLE !
If they were giving them awayfor free, you would be the first in line, You
dont want one because either your too cheap to purchase one, or the ones you
have are just a waste of bandwidth and doesnt merit you paying for it.
>And PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG with USING GEOCITIES, OR TRIPOD, OR
>FORTUNE CITY OR ANGELFIRE's FREE WEB PAGES?!
In the Internet community, all you have to do is go to a few of the pages with
the good graphics that take up a good amount of space and have something on
them that people are interested in comming back to. Those sites in general are
fine for Housewifes, or people that really dont need a site but just want to
put a few things up. If thats the case with you, fine, but its still a joke of
the Internet in general. Check usenet to find out what people say about it,
more scams and pirating go on in those 2 server names you said than the whole
rest of the internet combined. In addition, the mirror sites of real companies
wont even consider letting you be a mirror with any one of those address's.
>What is wrong with using the FREE HOTMAIL web based email service?!
>MicroSoft just BOUGHT THAT COMPANY!
Yea they bought it, They will get rid of it too or take the people on it and
somehow make them read to Microsoft spam. They bought it because it was very
large and had alot of people logging onto it for the email. They get to
advertise to every one of them. Its probably one of the best investments you
can make since if you are on the site, you are probably on some sort of
computer and computers need software and Microsoft sells software so why do
you think they bought it??? hhmm?
>What is wrong with using Bigfoot's free email service?!
>What is wrong with using iNAME's free email service?!
>What is wrong with using ROCKETMAIL's free web based email service?!
>GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!
>OVER ONE MILLION PEOPLE USE GEOCITIES AND TRIPOD !!!!
>It sounds you're only interested in the Internet as a money-making
>proposition.
I am interested in the internet in general. The internet was around alot
longer than those 2 companies giving out sites.
>To me, it's entertainment, learning, sharing tips and advice with
>other people, and keeping up with what's hip. Money is what I pay to
>my ISP at the end of each month.
>You really know how to get people down....... :(
Advice???? You are telling everyone that has SCSI that they are losers and
have too much money to waste. Gee, can I have some more of that advice from a
guy running a pentium 133 with 14" monitor and 28k modem???? heh
Dana Parker
Jeff Lightfoot wrote:
>
> "from a remark about jerks and thieves", his remark was about his
> CUSTOMERS. Clueless non-help file reading, same old fucking
> Playstation question asking CUSTOMERS. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>
> I don't need the owners of the software to tell me the attitude he
> puts forth towards his customers. Jeff Arnold has done it himself.
>
You know, you're right. Jeff Arnold is the creator of what is perhaps
the most powerful, professional, and elegant CD-R SW available, and he
provides his own personal email address and phone number to give direct
technical support to registered users. If you find it so shocking that
he's also honest enough to admit that he doesn't like wasting his
valuable time on clueless customers who ask dumb questions over and over
and won't read the manual, then you're better off not buying the
software.
I just hope you won't be too crushed when you discover that NOBODY likes
dealing with clueless customers who ask dumb questions over and over and
won't read the
manual, and most people will freely admit it. You'd be boycotting every
news group, every forum, and every SW program ever sold or supported.
Jeff Lightfoot
>Jeff Lightfoot wrote:
>> I have
>> to repeat that I have formed this opinion from only Jeff's comments,
>> no one else's.
>
>You don't have to repeat - you never said this. If this is what you
>meant, you didn't express it very well. And I did not, ever, accuse you
>of being a pirate.
I said: "What about the posts (mine included) of potential buyers that
see his bad attitude towards his customers."
Jeff Arnold said: "You would be "cranky" too if you had a million
people calling you every month asking how to copy fucking PlayStation
discs. Most of the Email and phone calls that I receive are a complete
waste of time because the customers don't even bother to read the help
file or installation instructions."
Nice. Is this the attitude I would receive if I accidently skipped
over a section of the help file and asked him for assistance?
As you can see, from his posts about his clueless customers, some of
us have formed opinions about him.
Dana Parker said: "the complaints are coming from those
who have stolen the SW and tried to hack it or are reacting to
unsubstantiated rumors by saying they will NEVER buy the SW"
Dana Parker also said: "People who complain about technical support or
copy protection of SW they don't own aren't unhappy customers or
potential customers - they're unhappy pirates or potential pirates"
In your first quote, which came from your post in response to mine,
you classify me as either or. In the second you classify me as
unhappy pirate or a potential pirate.
>An expressed impatience with thieves and rude, abusive, clueless
>"potential customers" does not necessarily indicate a "bad attitude" in
>general towards customers. In other words, if several people own a copy
>of SW and express satisfaction with tech support for it, I'm not going
>to assume a "bad attitude" towards all customers from a remark about
>jerks and thieves.
"from a remark about jerks and thieves", his remark was about his
CUSTOMERS. Clueless non-help file reading, same old fucking
Playstation question asking CUSTOMERS. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
I don't need the owners of the software to tell me the attitude he
puts forth towards his customers. Jeff Arnold has done it himself.
--
Steve Phelan
Then you've never been in a 'buying position', Dana. I work as a software
developer and Freelance consultant, and I fully appreciate the problems
developers have with pirates, but adding 'delete' code to your binaries just
makes a bad problem worse.
Put yourself in my position: Would you recommended this product to a client
such as a major Bank, Hospital or Oil Company, no matter how good it
actually is? No, of course you wouldn't, because you couldn't *guarantee*
that the software would *always* bypass the 'delete' code. It doesn't matter
whether the risk is *real* or not, it's *perceived*, and that means
customers (both actual and potential) just walk away, me included... That's
a shame, because I've heard a lot of good things about both the software and
Jeff's support of it to registered users.
Please, don't keep simplifying the issue by labelling anyone who has a
problem with Jeff's stance as 'unhappy pirates or potential pirates'. As
someone has already pointed out - several times, in fact - the 'real'
pirates would have never bought the software in the first place, so the only
people really affected are current customers thinking of upgrading and
potential new customers like myself.
Just my two pennies worth (which, of course, you are completely free to
disagree with... :-))
Steve Phelan.
>Dana Parker wrote in message <34B246...@ix.netcom.com>...
>If I were making a buying decision, I'd care a lot about what legitimate
>customers say. People who complain about technical support or copy
>protection of SW they don't own aren't unhappy customers or potential
>customers - they're unhappy pirates or potential pirates.
>
mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de
In article <34B25C...@ix.netcom.com>,
dana...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> So, you didn't buy it, but you've had "bad experiences" with it, even
> though you couldn't really test it. You won't buy it, you'll warn others
> not to buy it, even though you have no idea how good it is, because you
> don't own it. And you think anybody's going to believe you would have
> bought it or encouraged others to buy (not steal) it if it you'd had
> GOOD experiences with it?
Dear Dana, you just picked out a small part of my posting and now
you put some words into my mouth I never said.
I couln't really test the demo-version long time ago because all
demo-versions of CDRWin are crippled. Yes I made bad experiences
due to fake-keygens I used (I didn't know about the "features" of
Jeffs software in those times). But then I noticed it and since
that time I tested every new version. And if you would have read
my postings correctly you could have seen that I only warned people
not to use those fake-keygens or disabled sn#.
And finally IMHO a "stupid asshole" or "complete moron" is somebody
who declares war and expects that nobody will fight back.
So Jeff had his "revenge" but now the times are-a-changin'...
Terry L Ridder
Dana Parker wrote:
>
<major snip>
>
> You know, you're right. Jeff Arnold is the creator of what is perhaps
> the most powerful, professional, and elegant CD-R SW available, and he
> provides his own personal email address and phone number to give direct
> technical support to registered users. If you find it so shocking that
> he's also honest enough to admit that he doesn't like wasting his
> valuable time on clueless customers who ask dumb questions over and over
> and won't read the manual, then you're better off not buying the
> software.
>
> I just hope you won't be too crushed when you discover that NOBODY likes
> dealing with clueless customers who ask dumb questions over and over and
> won't read the
> manual, and most people will freely admit it. You'd be boycotting every
> news group, every forum, and every SW program ever sold or supported.
I tend to disagree with your statement that 'NOBODY' likes dealing with
with 'clueless customers'. The Linux community is a clear example of
people
who do deal with the same questions several times a day, and like it.
I have spent several months working with the XFree86 volunteer support
line
and dealt with the problems, but we do it because we like to help the
end-user to learn and educate themselves. (If you need further
information
concerning XFree86 please refer to http://www.xfree86.org .)
Concerning CD-R authoring software I have help at least 30 end-users in
the
past three months, install Linux, X-cdroast, cdrecorder, and several
other
utilities, showed them how to dual-boot their computer, and in several
cases
quad-boot their computer (They are running 4 different OS's on the same
computer).
Do they still ask questions, yes but they are becoming less frequent. I
find that
they are becoming more confident in their knowledge of not only Linux,
but their
computer as well. Several are now help others install Linux on their
computers.
Concerning dealing with end-users, this is what System Administrator do
everyday
on the job. I have spent over twenty years doing UNIX System Admin,
Network Admin,
the Help Desk Support. During that entire time I have maintained a civil
attitude
toward the end-user.
Concerning purchasing software, the amount of money a person spends on
any software
package does not equate to how well the software performs the functions
it is suppose
to perform. I peronally would rather have 15-20 programs which do what
they do very well
than one program which attempts to do everything. Also concerning any
software it does
not matter if it is freeware, shareware, commercial if you do not have
the source code
for it do not trust it. To but it a different way:
"Never trust software you do not have the source code for."
Concerning Jeff Arnold and his software, I have never used it, never
downloaded it,
and probably never will. Any software I do not care how well it works,
it could be the
greatest thing since sliced bread, the fact that there are questions
concerning whether or
not it has the potential to delete files from the end-users computers
raises serious
questions concerning the wisdom of using that software.
Concerning CD-R authoring software, there are freeware alternatives
which in my
opinion are excellent.
--
Terry L. Ridder
Blue Danube Software (Blaue Donau Software)
"We do not write software, we compose it."
When the toast is burnt
and all the milk has turned
and Captain Crunch is waving goodbye
when the Big One finds you
may this song remind you that they
don't serve breakfast in hell
==Breakfast==Newsboys
Dana Parker
Steve Phelan wrote:
>
> Then you've never been in a 'buying position', Dana. I work as a software
> developer and Freelance consultant, and I fully appreciate the problems
> developers have with pirates, but adding 'delete' code to your binaries just
> makes a bad problem worse.
I beg your pardon, I have and I am, but that is not the issue here. I
still maintain that someone who does not legally own SW is in no
position to complain about technical support for it. And I do think that
registered users are a better source for opinions of the SW and the
quality of technical support they get than those who are reacting to
rumors and reactions found in Usenet.
If you want to disagree with that, feel free. I'm not going to take up
the opposite side of an argument I've not taken a stance on - whether
the alleged "delete" code is there or not or should be there or not.
That is an entirely different issue, and you'kll have to find someone
else to discuss it with.
Dana Parker
Terry L Ridder wrote:
> I tend to disagree with your statement that 'NOBODY' likes dealing with
> with 'clueless customers'. The Linux community is a clear example of
> people
> who do deal with the same questions several times a day, and like it.
I stand corrected, and every other tech support person I've ever met
must be a misanthropic sociopath for admitting that the job can be
somewhat stressful at times. It's amazing society lets them run around
loose. You, however, never get annoyed by screaming customers and could
have given lessons in patience to Mother Teresa.
> I have spent over twenty years doing UNIX System Admin,
> Network Admin,
> the Help Desk Support. During that entire time I have maintained a civil
> attitude
> toward the end-user.
>
Yes, and so have I, and from what I can tell, so has Jeff Arnold - _on
the job_. It has nothing to do with the fact that I also told stories in
my off hours about the ones who asked where to find the "any" key,
thought I should be able to tell them where they put their autoexec.bat
file, and insisted that tying knots in the power cord could slow down
the speed of their CPU.