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Newbie seeks advice
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Demon
Nov 7, 2013, 11:39:23 AM11/7/13
to
Hello, I hope I'm not breaking any protocols here but I need some advice on
a SCSI problem...
I needed to replace the SCSI HD in my old Amiga 4000TE, I'm not certain what
flavour of SCSI this has - it's 50-pin - and according to some web-pages
I've read it's Fast SCSI-2, but I'm not certain of that.
As I'm sure you know 50-pin drives are getting hard to find and expensive,
so I thought I'd try one of these converter boards
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290524738141?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
and an inexpensive HD I found - a Fujitsu MAM3367MC.
Everything fits together, the drive spins up but isn't visible in HDToolbox,
I was disappointed but not completely surprised.
As it happens I also have a PC with an Advansys ASB3940-UA SCSI controller
in it, 50-pin again, so I thought I would try the drive and converter on
this and again when connected, the drive spins up but the controller card
does not register the drive.
I know the controller card works as it has a working DVD drive and Zip drive
attached normally.
So now, I don't know if the converter is faulty, the HD is faulty or if it's
simply an incompatibility problem.
I know the drive is marked as "Ultra 160 SCSI/SCA2/LVD" but in my reading I
got the impression that such drives could "dumb-down" for slower use on SE
busses and I assumed that's what the converter board allowed.
Can anyone tell me if these devices should work together? - The PC side of
things at least, I don't expect there's an Amiga expert here too :-)
Regards,
Suds
a SCSI problem...
I needed to replace the SCSI HD in my old Amiga 4000TE, I'm not certain what
flavour of SCSI this has - it's 50-pin - and according to some web-pages
I've read it's Fast SCSI-2, but I'm not certain of that.
As I'm sure you know 50-pin drives are getting hard to find and expensive,
so I thought I'd try one of these converter boards
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290524738141?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
and an inexpensive HD I found - a Fujitsu MAM3367MC.
Everything fits together, the drive spins up but isn't visible in HDToolbox,
I was disappointed but not completely surprised.
As it happens I also have a PC with an Advansys ASB3940-UA SCSI controller
in it, 50-pin again, so I thought I would try the drive and converter on
this and again when connected, the drive spins up but the controller card
does not register the drive.
I know the controller card works as it has a working DVD drive and Zip drive
attached normally.
So now, I don't know if the converter is faulty, the HD is faulty or if it's
simply an incompatibility problem.
I know the drive is marked as "Ultra 160 SCSI/SCA2/LVD" but in my reading I
got the impression that such drives could "dumb-down" for slower use on SE
busses and I assumed that's what the converter board allowed.
Can anyone tell me if these devices should work together? - The PC side of
things at least, I don't expect there's an Amiga expert here too :-)
Regards,
Suds
Michael Baeuerle
Nov 7, 2013, 12:38:05 PM11/7/13
to
Demon wrote:
>
> [MAM3367MC with SCA converter board]
16bit wide-bus (like the MAM3367MC) can be connected to an 8bit
narrow-bus (50pin cable) too. It should work if you do it right.
> Can anyone tell me if these devices should work together? - The PC side of
> things at least, I don't expect there's an Amiga expert here too :-)
Look at your termination first. Many SCSI drives with wide-bus don't
like it when the unused lines are floating. The result is usually like
you have described: The drive can't be selected and behave like "not
there".
I assume your host end of the SCSI bus is terminated by the HA. On the
other end you should use a wide-terminator so that the drive can see it.
If you have one of the common 68pin cables with crimped terminator on
one end, connect the other end to the second port of the SCA converter
board. So you get a correctly terminated narrow bus with the disk in the
middle and a connection from the disk to the high part of one
terminator.
The whole construction should be as short as possible (3m maximum
allowed bus length in theory).
Micha
>
> [MAM3367MC with SCA converter board]
>
> Everything fits together, the drive spins up but isn't visible in HDToolbox,
> I was disappointed but not completely surprised.
> [...]
> Everything fits together, the drive spins up but isn't visible in HDToolbox,
> I was disappointed but not completely surprised.
> So now, I don't know if the converter is faulty, the HD is faulty or if it's
> simply an incompatibility problem.
>
> I know the drive is marked as "Ultra 160 SCSI/SCA2/LVD" but in my reading I
> got the impression that such drives could "dumb-down" for slower use on SE
> busses and I assumed that's what the converter board allowed.
Yes, normally LVD-drives can switch to SE. And in general, a drive with
> simply an incompatibility problem.
>
> I know the drive is marked as "Ultra 160 SCSI/SCA2/LVD" but in my reading I
> got the impression that such drives could "dumb-down" for slower use on SE
> busses and I assumed that's what the converter board allowed.
16bit wide-bus (like the MAM3367MC) can be connected to an 8bit
narrow-bus (50pin cable) too. It should work if you do it right.
> Can anyone tell me if these devices should work together? - The PC side of
> things at least, I don't expect there's an Amiga expert here too :-)
like it when the unused lines are floating. The result is usually like
you have described: The drive can't be selected and behave like "not
there".
I assume your host end of the SCSI bus is terminated by the HA. On the
other end you should use a wide-terminator so that the drive can see it.
If you have one of the common 68pin cables with crimped terminator on
one end, connect the other end to the second port of the SCA converter
board. So you get a correctly terminated narrow bus with the disk in the
middle and a connection from the disk to the high part of one
terminator.
The whole construction should be as short as possible (3m maximum
allowed bus length in theory).
Micha
Robert Heller
Nov 7, 2013, 2:13:05 PM11/7/13
to
not the same thing as a SE terminator -- you want a SE cable with a SE
terminator.
Also, a SCA disk won't have drive ID jumpers, since it is expecting the SCA
("hot swap") enclosure is supposed to provide that. Make sure you have *sane*
id settings on your SCA adapter -- i.e. not setting the drive id > 7. 50-pin
SE busses only suport drives from 0-7, with 7 typically being the controller.
>
> The whole construction should be as short as possible (3m maximum
> allowed bus length in theory).
>
>
> Micha
>
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
() ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments
Demon
Nov 7, 2013, 6:30:13 PM11/7/13
to
Micha & Robert - thank you guys for your replies, looks like you were spot
on the money!
>> Look at your termination first. Many SCSI drives with wide-bus don't
>> like it when the unused lines are floating. The result is usually like
>> you have described: The drive can't be selected and behave like "not
>> there".
>>
>> I assume your host end of the SCSI bus is terminated by the HA. On the
>> other end you should use a wide-terminator so that the drive can see it.
>> If you have one of the common 68pin cables with crimped terminator on
>> one end, connect the other end to the second port of the SCA converter
>> board. So you get a correctly terminated narrow bus with the disk in the
>> middle and a connection from the disk to the high part of one
>> terminator.
I had wondered about termination but initially, on my Amiga, I connected the
new drive in the middle of an existing cable so I sort of assumed I had the
rest of the cable terminated appropriately, but on the PC I used a spare
cable that only had the new drive on the end furthest from the HA.
> Note: some LVD cables have a *LVD* terminator built in. A LVD terminator
> is
> not the same thing as a SE terminator -- you want a SE cable with a SE
> terminator.
I understand. I was expecting to have to buy something to make this work
but in the back of my mind I remembered that somewhere I had a small white
cardboard box labelled "SCSI Terminator" and I knew it wasn't one of the
Centronics type - after some searching I found it and it turned out to be a
68-pin plug labelled LVD/SE Terminator - why I have this or where it came
from I have no idea but I gave it a try plugged into the 68-pin socket on
the converter board and the new drive is now recognised on both the PC and
the Amiga - fantastic!
>> The whole construction should be as short as possible (3m maximum
>> allowed bus length in theory).
Luckily in both cases my cables are very short, the longer of the two is
maybe 70cm, the shorter one is half of that, but thank you for the advice.
>> Yes, normally LVD-drives can switch to SE. And in general, a drive with
>> 16bit wide-bus (like the MAM3367MC) can be connected to an 8bit
>> narrow-bus (50pin cable) too. It should work if you do it right.
And thanks to your assistance, it seems that it does indeed work. Many
thanks again guys for taking the time to reply.
Regards,
Suds
on the money!
>> Look at your termination first. Many SCSI drives with wide-bus don't
>> like it when the unused lines are floating. The result is usually like
>> you have described: The drive can't be selected and behave like "not
>> there".
>>
>> I assume your host end of the SCSI bus is terminated by the HA. On the
>> other end you should use a wide-terminator so that the drive can see it.
>> If you have one of the common 68pin cables with crimped terminator on
>> one end, connect the other end to the second port of the SCA converter
>> board. So you get a correctly terminated narrow bus with the disk in the
>> middle and a connection from the disk to the high part of one
>> terminator.
new drive in the middle of an existing cable so I sort of assumed I had the
rest of the cable terminated appropriately, but on the PC I used a spare
cable that only had the new drive on the end furthest from the HA.
> Note: some LVD cables have a *LVD* terminator built in. A LVD terminator
> is
> not the same thing as a SE terminator -- you want a SE cable with a SE
> terminator.
but in the back of my mind I remembered that somewhere I had a small white
cardboard box labelled "SCSI Terminator" and I knew it wasn't one of the
Centronics type - after some searching I found it and it turned out to be a
68-pin plug labelled LVD/SE Terminator - why I have this or where it came
from I have no idea but I gave it a try plugged into the 68-pin socket on
the converter board and the new drive is now recognised on both the PC and
the Amiga - fantastic!
>> The whole construction should be as short as possible (3m maximum
>> allowed bus length in theory).
maybe 70cm, the shorter one is half of that, but thank you for the advice.
>> Yes, normally LVD-drives can switch to SE. And in general, a drive with
>> 16bit wide-bus (like the MAM3367MC) can be connected to an 8bit
>> narrow-bus (50pin cable) too. It should work if you do it right.
thanks again guys for taking the time to reply.
Regards,
Suds
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