Generic or compatible ink cartridges
ken gracia
Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name BUT is the ink in a
compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
I.E: Epson.
question 2
My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
ken
Ed Light
cartridges from maxpatchink.com to be great and the ink was waterproof too.
The colors were slightly different in photos but still very nice.
I tried another brand which was horrible.
But the printer clogged up too easily, even with Epson ink, even after using
a cleaning kit from maxpatchink. And it used up all its ink cleaning itself.
So I replaced it with an HP 5940 and haven't looked back. I can print with
only the black cartridge in and you get new printheads with every cartridge.
The price per page is going to be ok if the page yield they claim is
accurate.
Plus the refills from maxpatch are very cheap, though I haven't done one yet
and it looks challenging to put the vented tape on that comes with them. But
boy are they cheap. It could be challenging keeping track of how much ink
you've used after refilling, since it will read zero -- I'm using this:
http://www.pokluda.cz/support/inkmonitor.aspx
BTW if you're going to refill then don't run the cartridge dry. The HP 5940
will let you run it dry but then the cartridge's printhead is burned up. OK
if you're going to get another cartridge.
I've only had it a couple of weeks.
You do have to take out the black cartridge to put in a photo cartridge, but
it prints photos fine with the tri-color so there's no need to get a photo
cartridge.
The pigmented ink is very nearly waterproof.
I think it won't clog like the Epson because it dries slower when it hits
the air. If you print on laser paper it sits on top and will smear if you
immediately touch it. On inkjet paper it is absorbed right away.
--
Ed Light
Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\
Send spam to the FTC at
sp...@uce.gov
Thanks, robots.
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zakezuke
If talking dyes, from what i've seen the compatable solutions fade far
faster. You have the main stream stuff as used by the users here which
will fade more quickly, then you have some cheap stuff like you get in
those CIS kits on e-bay which will fade in weeks.
However you're talking Epson and pigments. There are more solutions
than you can shake a stick at... some even claiming they are archival.
A mainstream company called MediaStreet.com, and the mainstream bulk
ink from www.inksupply.com. I have less info on pigmented epson as
i've never owned one.
measekite
ken gracia wrote:
>Question 1
>Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
>uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name BUT is the ink in a
>compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
>I.E: Epson.
>
>
absolutely not
>question 2
>My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
>if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>
>
you do not want to use generic ink unless you are a very heavy user and
then you should think about it.
>ken
>
>
>
>
Jon O'Brien
> Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers
> if one uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name...
I think you'll find that the warranty says that damage caused by using third-party ink isn't covered. The company would have to prove that any damage /was/ caused that way before it could deny you service. As far as I'm aware, no company has yet even attempted to do so, never mind succeeded.
> ...is the ink in a compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is
> in the brand name ones I.E: Epson.
Third-party ink quality varies widely. Best only to buy those that someone with the same printer has used successfully.
> My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges.
Small point but that's 'pigment' not 'pigmented'. 'Pigmented' indicates a dye-based ink with added pigments.
> Does anyone know if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
I've never used third-party inks but I'd suggest only using one that clearly states whether it's dye- or pigment-based.
Jon.
ken gracia
I have decided to use Epson cartridges full stop
Ken
trevor
> Question 1
> Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
> uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name
Absolutely, categorically false, as ruled by the Magnussen-Moss act.
http://think4inc.com/magnuson_moss.php
> BUT is the ink in a
> compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
> I.E: Epson.
>
This absolutely depends upon the supplier. We try to surpass OEM quality in
color-fastness and archival quality. Some people run junk out the door.
> question 2
> My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
> if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>
Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented--that's what supplies the
color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic or compatible
ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically, it takes very
sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as they need to be to pass
through nozzles or print head orifi in some printers such as Epson. Cheap
ink from overseas may not have pigments finely milled enough for general
usage.
Hope that helps!
thINK4inc.com
ken gracia
Here in New Zealand we have different Ink refillable shops. For my previous
printer Canon S520 I used Calidad Cartridges and often refilled From a shop
called Cartridge World.
Priced the Epson Cartridges today and $24nz or Refillable $15nz
Bob Headrick
"trevor" <n...@home.now> wrote in message
news:7nb5g.6026$8q.3990@dukeread08...
> ken gracia wrote:
>
>> My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone
>> know if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>
> Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented--that's what supplies
> the color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic
> or compatible ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically,
> it takes very sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as
> they need to be to pass through nozzles or print head orifi in some
> printers such as Epson. Cheap ink from overseas may not have
> pigments finely milled enough for general usage.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> thINK4inc.com
If you are a refill ink supplier and you believe "Basically ALL inkjet
printer ink is pigmented" it demonstrates a pretty basic lack of
understanding of ink. I would certainly never buy anything from you....
For the record, there are two kinds of inks generally used in consumer
class printers. Dye based inks get their colorant from dyes which are
soluble in the ink vehicle. Imagine food coloring for example.
Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve.
The characteristics of pigmented ink and dye based inks are very
different, and they react differently to the media they are printed on.
- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
measekite
Jon O'Brien wrote:
>In article <4454...@news01.wxnz.net>, ken-s...@xnet.co.nz (ken gracia) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers
>>if one uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name...
>>
>>
>
>I think you'll find that the warranty says that damage caused by using third-party ink isn't covered. The company would have to prove that any damage /was/ caused that way before it could deny you service. As far as I'm aware, no company has yet even attempted to do so, never mind succeeded.
>
>
you have not seen every claim so that statement is ludicrus
>
>
>>...is the ink in a compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is
>>in the brand name ones I.E: Epson.
>>
>>
>
>Third-party ink quality varies widely. Best only to buy those that someone with the same printer has used successfully.
>
>
but since the relabelers do not disclose what they are selling it is
likely one can get the same generics from multiple sources without
knowing it. furthermore these relabers can easily change suppliers on
their next order like you can change relabelers.
>
>
>>My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges.
>>
>>
>
>Small point but that's 'pigment' not 'pigmented'. 'Pigmented' indicates a dye-based ink with added pigments.
>
>
>
>>Does anyone know if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>>
>>
>
>I've never used third-party inks
>
then you should not tell anyone else to mess up their printer either.
>but I'd suggest only using one that clearly states whether it's dye- or pigment-based.
>
>
the funny thing is ther are not laws on the books making the relabelers
to properly relabel what they are selling and to disclose what that
label is on their website.
>Jon.
>
>
ken gracia
"Pigmented inks have coloring made from finely ground particles of
colorant. These remain in suspension in the vehicle and do not
dissolve."
Okay so Am I correct in saying then that the Pigmented inks vary in the
process of grounding particles of colorant to either be quality to poor
depending on where we purchase the inks from and also who is selling it
under different label names?
ken
Jon O'Brien
No. It's a statement of fact which includes the words: 'As far as I'm aware'. It's entirely possible that a company or more has attempted to prove it and that they have succeeded but I'm unaware of any such events. As you're such an expert on third-party inks, I'm sure that you have the facts to hand and I await details of any case so proved.
Your attempt to spell 'ludicrous', on the other hand, /is/ ludicrous.
There was more rubbish but it's not worth mentioning.
Jon.
measekite
Costco or another website and the OEM cart is around $9.00. goto a
refiller and pay $4.00 and then pay $12 for gas and (no compensation for
your time or the wear and tear on your cart and then you get results
that are less fade resistent according to pcworld. and then you have a
higher risk of clogging and that has been tested by pcworld as well.
the only way to make it pay is if you print so much that you change
carts every week.
measekite
ken gracia wrote:
quality inks from OEM and you know what you are buying and it is
consistent but it is expensive.
i guess you get what you pay for
poor ink from the relabelers and you never know what you are getting and
the level of mediocrity will vary depending on who is the lowest bidder
at the time.
>ken
>
>
>
>
measekite
measekite
Jon O'Brien wrote:
as outlined above
measekite
trevor wrote:
>ken gracia wrote:
>
>
>
>>Question 1
>>Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if one
>>uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name
>>
>>
>
>Absolutely, categorically false, as ruled by the Magnussen-Moss act.
>http://think4inc.com/magnuson_moss.php
>
>
while literally false it is partially true since many generic carts
causes clogged printheads so the mfg does not have to fix the printer
under the warranty if the cause of the problem is generic ink.
>
>
>>BUT is the ink in a
>>compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
>>I.E: Epson.
>>
>>
basically no, it is not as good a quality. the oem ink was designed for
the printer by the same engineers that designed the printer. the
relabelers sell lowest bidder ink and do not disclose what they are
selling. many fail to disclose becasue they think the user will go to
their supplier. others fail to disclose because they do not want you to
track their ink and find out that it really is not up to the same snuff
as canon and epson and hp.
>>
>>
>
>This absolutely depends upon the supplier. We try to surpass OEM quality in
>color-fastness and archival quality. Some people run junk out the door.
>
>
you gotta be carefiull what you read here since many of the posts are
plants from relabelers who are in the ink business. i do not work for a
relabeler or a printer mfg or a printer reseller. i call them as i see
them.
>
>
>>question 2
>>My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone know
>>if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented
>
that statement is totally false. the canon pixmas printers and the
epson r200/300 series printers are dye based with the canon having a
black pigmented cart used for text.
>--that's what supplies the
>color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic or compatible
>ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically, it takes very
>sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as they need to be to pass
>through nozzles or print head orifi in some printers such as Epson. Cheap
>ink from overseas may not have pigments finely milled enough for general
>usage.
>
>
and most of the relabelers if not all sell cheap ink.
>Hope that helps!
>
>thINK4inc.com
>
>
>
TJ
>
>
> Jon O'Brien wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I've never used third-party inks
> then you should not tell anyone else to mess up their printer either.
>
>> but I'd suggest only using one that clearly states whether it's dye-
>> or pigment-based.
>>
>>
> the funny thing is ther are not laws on the books making the relabelers
> to properly relabel what they are selling and to disclose what that
> label is on their website.
>
labeling. There are more than enough trivial laws already.
TJ
Jon O'Brien
> Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented...
Utter bollox!
Jon.
Bob Headrick
"ken gracia" <ken-s...@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4455...@news01.wxnz.net...
There are an enormous number of variables that can affect ink quality.
How pigments are processed is certainly one of these. Equally or more
important are the dispersant (how the particles are kept in suspension
so they do not just settle to the bottom), the ink vehicle or carrier,
storage and handling conditions, etc, etc, etc.
Chris
I'm sure that HP do not invalidate their guarantee if u use a third party
toner cartridge. The reason I say this is I was involved in buying
thousands of toner cartridges and always recommended using cheaper
remanufactured. I have seen HP literature which allows for the use of non
HP cartridges without invalidating the warranty. Mind you they don't like
it.
We had the supplier of the remanufactured cartridges come to talk to us
about the remanufacturing process - we were impressed with the process as
they actually replace parts and refill - not just refill. The toner powder
used was 'compatible' - whatever that means.
So it must be an Epson thing to invalidate warranties so that they can sell
you more of their stuff.
The remanufactured cartridges worked as well as the original and lasted just
as long. In fact the supplier offered their own guarantee if the cartridge
resulted in a faulty printer. So we were covered all ways.
In many cases manufacturers sell cheap printers and they make their money on
expensive consumables. My Samsung printer was £70, toners are £40 ish. I
will always refill or buy copy cartridges for these reasons.
Chris
"ken gracia" <ken-s...@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4454...@news01.wxnz.net...
zakezuke
The logic here is a tad flawed.
Let's assume that a refilled tank as you say costs $4 each, and gas to
get them costs $12, which assuming US prices and 30mpg be a 2 hour
drive to the next city, to get a prodct that, using your numbers of
$9/tank for OEM, or a saving of $5/unit. Odds are you are going to buy
at least 4 to 6 units, which would have a net savings of $20 to $30 per
set you buy, minus gas that's $8.00 to $18.00 for a single set. I
agree that's not a great deal but you can buy more than one set, making
it a screaming deal.
This presumes several things.
1. The cheap ink is 60 miles away and costco is 0 miles away, which
limits you to the website and tri packs of ink.
2. Costco ink is $9.00 where near as i'm aware the best deal is Canon
tripacks at $10.33/unit for dye. $11.33 for the big black. Epson is
closer to $10 each for dye/ $12.33 for for pigment in tripacks. Plus
tax, plus wear and tear on your car etc... etc.
3. That we were even talking about dye ink in the first place, when we
were talking pigment ink, which near as i'm aware was NOT reviewed by
PC world.
But let's be fair, let's assume 4 tank durabite epson printer. $34.99
for three colors by three is $104.97 plus three blacks, which well
those come in two packs for $54.99 which to be fair have more than
enough volume. 9 tanks of color and two black tanks 159.96, plus tax.
And let's revisit measkete numbers of $4.00 a unit or $44.00 for the
same amount, plus $12.00 for gas. That's $56.00 or a savings of 65%.
$103.96 isn't small change. To save wear and tear on your car, not a
problem mailordering.
> the only way to make it pay is if you print so much that you change
> carts every week.
To buy at costco, you gotta buy tri-packs, or double packs. With mail
order at $4 a unit and $12 shipping you save from the get go.
zakezuke
> consistent but it is expensive.
Epson inks are not all that consistent esp when dealing with ink mfg in
US, Mexico, and Japan. You can increase your consistancy by picking
one country and going with it. But nothing is more consistant than
buying 2 to 4 oz of bulk ink as you've got the exact same ink for 4 to
9 cartridge changes.
Ed Light
"Chris" <fa...@spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:44564bf4$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Hi Ken,
>
> I'm sure that HP do not invalidate their guarantee if u use a third party
> toner cartridge.
Since the printhead is on the cartridge, I suppose the only way it could
damage the printer would be by leaking?
Taliesyn
Last year I printed quite a bit; lots of photos, personal projects,
greeting cards, etc. I used about 10 sets of cartridges. At OEM prices
that would have been about CAD $1,000. But, by using bulk ink my cost
was CAD $134.00 and I still had ink left over after the year. I saved
about $866, enough to buy almost 7 new printers. I had no clogging, no
failed printer, and more ink than I know what to do with. It's better
than playing the lotteries... where I NEVER win!
This year, however, I've cut out the greeting cards (except for 1 or two
major holidays) and all personal projects except one. And that one
doesn't require massive amounts of ink, just plain text mostly, and just
once a month. Accordingly, I have moved away from the large bulk bottles
of my previous dealer to the 2 oz kits from HobbiColors.
-Taliesyn
measekite
Jon O'Brien wrote:
nothing wrong with bagels and lox
>Jon.
>
>
Bob Headrick
"Ed Light" <nob...@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:x9s5g.708$KB.572@fed1read08...
>> party toner cartridge.
See
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?lc=en&cc=us&docname=bpa00113
for HP's statement.
> Since the printhead is on the cartridge, I suppose the only way it
> could damage the printer would be by leaking?
That would be the most common, but damage could also happen if the
refill ink was incompatible with the printer components such as the
service station. It is possible that this could leave residue on the
wipers or caps which could affect printing even after the cartridges
were replaced.
- Bob Headrick
measekite
Taliesyn wrote:
> zakezuke wrote:
>
>>> Measekite said: Snipped per request
>>
>>
>>
snipped per request
>
>
> Last year I printed quite a bit; lots of photos, personal projects,
> greeting cards, etc.
snipped per request
like i said the heavy printers (and some do not realize just how heavy
they print) where the ink does not have time to dry in the printhead
most of the time is just like i said. some of the less crappy quality
ink may survive fir a while as pcworld tests results show but over time
it will happen. just like this is not your original printhead.
> -Taliesyn
measekite
Ed Light wrote:
>"Chris" <fa...@spam.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:44564bf4$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
>
>>Hi Ken,
>>
>>I'm sure that HP do not invalidate their guarantee if u use a third party
>>toner cartridge.
>>
>>
>
>Since the printhead is on the cartridge, I suppose the only way it could
>damage the printer would be by leaking?
>
>
yes and that has happened. also the quality of a used printhead may not
give optimum results.
>
>
>
zakezuke
So what you are saying is aftermarket ink offers superior drytime?
Where is this pcworld test? Got a link?
Don't get me wrong, I think you sir are full of it, which is quite sad.
The PC world test didn't give favorable marks to many inks, nor did
they test any pigments, and it is sadly out of date. But I don't seem
to remember it speaking about the ink dry time.
Ed Light
98 96 95 97 99 ?
TIA
Frank
No wonder the idiot knows nothing at all about ink, paper or printers.
What a loser!
Frank
measekite
printer
Ed Light
"measekite" <inkys...@oem.com> wrote in message
news:tjC5g.71787$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> would never consider it. do not want to have a messy leak ruining my hp
> printer
Ok, who asked you? Just don't refill. I didn't say to.
--
Ed Light
Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\
Send spam to the FTC at
sp...@uce.gov
Thanks, robots.
Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
Fight Spam:
http://bluesecurity.com
>
Ed Light
"Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>>
> PC World? That moron meashershithead gets his ink info from PC World?
> No wonder the idiot knows nothing at all about ink, paper or printers.
> What a loser!
> Frank
I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your computing
life for the better.
Frank
> "Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>
>>PC World? That moron meashershithead gets his ink info from PC World?
>>No wonder the idiot knows nothing at all about ink, paper or printers.
>>What a loser!
>>Frank
>
>
> I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
>
> You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your computing
> life for the better.
>
Sorry Ed, but I trust the word of experienced users such as myself (over
10 yrs) and others in this ng for real life experience and advice.
Something the mags simply cannot provide. The mags do testing on what
they are paid to test by the majors. It's where they get their
advertising $'s on which they survive.
Read them with a grain of salt.
Frank
measekite
Ed Light wrote:
>"Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>
>
>>PC World? That moron meashershithead gets his ink info from PC World?
>>No wonder the idiot knows nothing at all about ink, paper or printers.
>>What a loser!
>>Frank
>>
>>
>
>I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
>
>You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your computing
>life for the better.
>
>
>
he is always talking about himself. pcworld is reputable. one the
things i do not like is they include price as part of their
recommendaitons. many times i do not care what something costs until i
first determince what are the best choices and why. and they do not
always tell you why they choose one item over the other.
but they do state that generic ink sucks.
ken gracia
We seem to have drifted off track slightly now. What with transport costs to
get ink and magazine reports yuk.
I have looked at magazine reports and I think they are a little on the
favour sides of the advertisers. Just look at their tests on software
programs. i.e:
Registry cleaners and optimisers for registry. In a lot of the PC magazines
UK, Australia and New Zealand that i have looked at, they will say that
Regfix or similar titles are "the number one" or Top of programs for
cleaning your Registry.
I tried them all CRAP. Oh yes they will find things in the registry but I
tried a small quiet registry program that even found more and did a better
job of cleaning out the registry too. It is called
"Advanced Registry & Cleaner" by SysTweak
Ken
ken gracia
Yes I have used them for many years in my HP670 and HP690 printers. I never
had a problem with clogging at all.
ken
Frank
> "Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>
>>PC World? That moron meashershithead gets his ink info from PC World?
>>No wonder the idiot knows nothing at all about ink, paper or printers.
>>What a loser!
>>Frank
>
>
> I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
>
> You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your computing
> life for the better.
>
any of the excellent quality after market inks that are available.
And I'm not talking about "generic" bulk trash inks that hardly anybody
uses. I'm talking about the really excellent inks such as MIS and
Hobbiecolors.
These inks rival/beat oem inks.
Frank
zakezuke
They never actually said generic ink sucks.
"We found that third-party inks can save you money,
and that some produce prints on a par with the output of printer vendor
inks.
But we also encountered third-party inks that produced poor-quality
prints and
clogged up printheads. The impact of generic inks on printer warranties
is
ambiguous. And if you frequently print photographs, you should steer
clear of
these inks: The prints might look fine, but Wilhelm reported that none
of the
clone inks he tested came close to matching the permanence of
brand-name inks."
--Bob Headrick quoting PCworld Mar 20 2004 11:10 pm
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,pg,1,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,111767,pg,2,00.asp
Note this article was from "September 2003". And "sucks" is simply not
in the PCworld lingo. They did find that four brands were "Comparable"
to oem, depending on what printer was used. They found inks that were
"Significantly" and "Somewhat Worse".
So unless you are quoting a newer reference than Sept 2003, you are
lying.
Frank
article is downright silly if not really extremely stupid.
But we've come to expect such bullshit childishness from his corner.
Frank
zakezuke
Frank wrote:
> > So unless you are quoting a newer reference than Sept 2003, you are
> > lying.
> >
> For that moron meashershithead to be quoting a 3 year old technical
> article is downright silly if not really extremely stupid.
> But we've come to expect such bullshit childishness from his corner.
> Frank
The problem isn't that he's quoting a 3 year old article. Well, that
"is" a problem as they don't make those printers anymore.
The problem is the artical he is quoting only tested 4 brands and one
refill kit, 3 years ago. And even 3 years ago they found inks that
were "Comparable" though not in all areas. If they could pick 5 brands
at random and actually get "Comparable" results I imagine that someone
with a little bit of research can find a brand that is adquate for
their needs.
Arthur Entlich
have laws preventing manufacturers from excluding the use of 3rd party
during the warranty period. They are obligated to prove that an inferior
ink actually caused the claimed defect.
3rd party inks vary considerably. Most are just fine, and considerably
less costly. Sometimes they are inferior and can cause problems like
clogs. Even OEM inks can cause clogs, however.
There are Durabrite and Ultrachrome equivalent inks on the market,
however, Epson has some patents on their ink which make them difficult
to produce at a reasonable costs. The saving may vary from $.50 up to
$20 per cartridge, depending on the type used.
The best way to manage to avoid the pitfalls of bad ink is to keep in
touch with other users (such as here or groups) and groups specific to
your printer brand. People who use bulk or 3rd party inks can express
their experiences on the ink and paper they are using and leave it to
each of us to decide.
Art
Taliesyn
> Your first assumption is usually not correct. Most countries actually
> have laws preventing manufacturers from excluding the use of 3rd party
> during the warranty period. They are obligated to prove that an inferior
> ink actually caused the claimed defect.
>
From what I've read, some of the ink sold as aftermarket is made by the
same companies who make OEM ink. Therefore, they could end up trying to
prove their own ink is inferior :-)
-Taliesyn
Arthur Entlich
Inkjet, bubblejet, or giclee printers use INKS
The inks come in cartridges either with or without a printer head.
The inks may be dye colorant (the color is dissolves in the liquid base,
usually water), pigment colorant (the color is made of particles
suspended in the base, usually water plus an adhesive water based
plastic), or a hybrid sometimes referred to as "pigmented" which can
have pigment grains that are further dyed.
Laser printers and photocopiers use TONERS
Most toners also come in cartridges these days. They are a dry powder
usually made of a mixture of pigments, dry dyes, and finely ground
plastic. The cartridges may have integrated drums, or not. Some, mainly
older units, have separate "developer" toner, and drum (color ones may
use a "transfer belt). The toner transfer from the drum to the static
charged
paper which is then heated to melt the plastic components to fuse the
color to the paper.
Today, most toner systems integrate the developer into the toner or use
a developer free process.
I'm not saying this to be pedantic, just to help make things clearer
when people write their postings.
Art
Ed Light
"measekite" <inkys...@oem.com> wrote
> pcworld is reputable. one the things i do not like is they include price
> as part of their recommendaitons. many times i do not care what something
> costs until i first determince what are the best choices and why. and
> they do not always tell you why they choose one item over the other.
>
> but they do state that generic ink sucks.
I like seeing the price in comparisons so I can eliminate the expensive
stuff.
I got some Calidad refill kits and now I'm scared they will wreck the
parking area! I thought I was safe because of getting new print heads with
new cartridges. But I think I'll be brave and use them, if I ever empty the
original cartridges. The HP 5940 isn't cleaning itself dry like my Epson C64
did, so that may take longer than I was planning on.
Ed Light
There are lots of inks available that the pcmag article didn't cover.
Ed Light
"Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>> I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
>>
>> You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your
>> computing life for the better.
>>
>
> Sorry Ed, but I trust the word of experienced users such as myself (over
> 10 yrs) and others in this ng for real life experience and advice.
> Something the mags simply cannot provide. The mags do testing on what they
> are paid to test by the majors. It's where they get their advertising $'s
> on which they survive.
> Read them with a grain of salt.
Well, of course you do have do that. Yep. Agreed. I was sort of being
tongue-in-cheek.
Burt
>
> "measekite" <inkys...@oem.com> wrote
>
>> pcworld is reputable. one the things i do not like is they include price
>> as part of their recommendaitons. many times i do not care what
>> something costs until i first determince what are the best choices and
>> why. and they do not always tell you why they choose one item over the
>> other.
>>
>> but they do state that generic ink sucks.
>
> I like seeing the price in comparisons so I can eliminate the expensive
> stuff.
>
> I got some Calidad refill kits and now I'm scared they will wreck the
> parking area! I thought I was safe because of getting new print heads with
> new cartridges. But I think I'll be brave and use them, if I ever empty
> the original cartridges. The HP 5940 isn't cleaning itself dry like my
> Epson C64 did, so that may take longer than I was planning on.
> --
> Ed Light
Since I've killfiled the troll and most people are kind enough to snip his
responses I haven't seen his more recent posts. What I did notice on this
one is that his caps lock key has been destroyed but now his shift keys are
not working. All lower case - rather poetic --- like e.e.cummings.
Burt
"Ed Light" <nob...@nobody.there> wrote in message
>
> "Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>
>>> I check the PC World site as well as more geek-oriented ones.
>>>
>>> You will miss a crucial piece of information that will change your
>>> computing life for the better.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry Ed, but I trust the word of experienced users such as myself (over
>> 10 yrs) and others in this ng for real life experience and advice.
>> Something the mags simply cannot provide. The mags do testing on what
>> they are paid to test by the majors. It's where they get their
>> advertising $'s on which they survive.
>> Read them with a grain of salt.
>
> Well, of course you do have do that. Yep. Agreed. I was sort of being
> tongue-in-cheek.
>
>
> --
> Ed Light
>
OEM inks, and Epson inks on the nifty-stuff forum a few months ago for UV
fading. Worth looking at. In addition, Neil Slade did a side-by-side color
evaluation of some Canon aftermarket inks and put them on his site just last
week. These tests were all done by actual users of the inks and not in a
controlled laboratory environment. Still good info. All available on the
nifty-stuff forum, including the link to Neil Slade's updated article on
inks.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
Ed Light
"Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
> One other very important point Ed is that they have never ever tested any
> of the excellent quality after market inks that are available.
> And I'm not talking about "generic" bulk trash inks that hardly anybody
> uses. I'm talking about the really excellent inks such as MIS and
> Hobbiecolors.
> These inks rival/beat oem inks.
All-RIGHT!!!
I Googled up MIS and they don't have ink for my model. But I love the
transparent cartridges.
I can't find Hobbiecolors?
I have bunch of Calidad ink from maxpatchink.com waiting to by tried on my
HP. They guarantee their carts for a year. Their blurbs say that the ink is
tested for compatibility on the corresponding printers, and for similar
properties to the oem ink. Their carts were ok on my Epson, but it clogged
up even with its own ink, and even after I serviced the landing pad.
Ed Light
"ken gracia" <ken-s...@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4457c456$1...@news01.wxnz.net...
> Calidad inks
>
> Yes I have used them for many years in my HP670 and HP690 printers. I
> never had a problem with clogging at all.
Gosh, that's great to know! Thanks, Ken!
Ed Light
"Burt" <sfbjg...@pacbell.net> wrote
> Since I've killfiled the troll and most people are kind enough to snip his
> responses
Thanks, now I have blocked him too.
Ed Light
"Burt" <sfbjg...@pacbell.net> wrote
> There was a pretty good evaluation of a few Canon aftermarket inks, Canon
> OEM inks, and Epson inks on the nifty-stuff forum a few months ago for UV
> fading.
> http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
>
I'll take a look!
Fortunately I've been "set free" by another poster who had no clogs for
years from Calidad inks on his HP.
I expect the color to probably be a little different on photos from the HP
inks. But I'm still wondering about fading.
Encouragingly, when I had the Epson with the DuraBrite inks I got Calidads
(great price) from maxpatchink and I have a color print in my window that I
made with them that gets some sun and that gets moist at night, and it
hasn't faded for months.
measekite
Arthur Entlich wrote:
> Your first assumption is usually not correct. Most countries actually
> have laws preventing manufacturers from excluding the use of 3rd party
> during the warranty period. They are obligated to prove that an
> inferior ink actually caused the claimed defect.
that is easy to do. just examine the clogged printhead and prove that
it is not oem.
>
> 3rd party inks vary considerably.
snip
and since the relabelers will not tell you who the mfg/formulator is you
have no way to follow the performance of the product.
> There are Durabrite and Ultrachrome equivalent inks on the market,
> however, Epson has some patents on their ink which make them difficult
> to produce at a reasonable costs. The saving may vary from $.50 up to
> $20 per cartridge, depending on the type used.
>
> The best way to manage to avoid the pitfalls of bad ink is to keep in
> touch with other users (such as here or groups) and groups specific to
> your printer brand. People who use bulk or 3rd party inks can express
> their experiences on the ink and paper they are using and leave it to
> each of us to decide.
that is poor since many of these so called users are plants inside ng
and forums making up many false claims. they pretend to be benefactors.
measekite
Ed Light wrote:
>"measekite" <inkys...@oem.com> wrote
>
>
>
>>pcworld is reputable. one the things i do not like is they include price
>>as part of their recommendaitons. many times i do not care what something
>>costs until i first determince what are the best choices and why. and
>>they do not always tell you why they choose one item over the other.
>>
>>but they do state that generic ink sucks.
>>
>>
>
>I like seeing the price in comparisons so I can eliminate the expensive
>stuff.
>
>
i go to pricegrabber to weed out the cheap stuff.
measekite
Ed Light wrote:
>There are lots of inks available that the pcmag article didn't cover.
>
>
very few. a lot of names but few formulations. why there may be 10
different labels for the same ink sold by 10 different relabelers.
>
>
>
measekite
are even in the business. they cannot see the light of day.
measekite
Ed Light wrote:
>"Burt" <sfbjg...@pacbell.net> wrote
>
>
>
>>There was a pretty good evaluation of a few Canon aftermarket inks, Canon
>>OEM inks, and Epson inks on the nifty-stuff forum a few months ago for UV
>>fading.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>>http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
>>
>>
this is a forum manned by hackers and hobbyists that belong to an
aftermarket ink club so anything that is said there you need to take
with a grain of salt
measekite
their website or by phone or in any writing what they are selling. they
all create a different excuse. you never know when their source changes
either.
measekite
Taliesyn wrote:
totally ridiculuoius. it is not the factory the ink is made in it is
the formulation and that is patented by the oem mfg. i think that it
taught in senior high school labs.
>
> -Taliesyn
Jon O'Brien
> ...many of these so called users are plants inside ng
> and forums making up many false claims.
As many of us have long suspected that you are.
Jon.
zakezuke
Sure, it's a conspiricy man. This whole aftermarket ink gag is a poor
attempt is a front for dorld womination... by none other than Inky and
the Stain.... and we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for
those pesky kids and that dumb dog.
Frank
Very true! Happens all the time.
Frank
Bob Headrick
"Ed Light" <nob...@nobody.there> wrote in message
> Has anyone here used Calidad refill kits for HP pigmented inks? Like
> the HP 98 96 95 97 99 ?
The 95, 97 and 99 are dye based inks, not pigmented.
- Bob Headrick
Bob Headrick
"ken gracia" <ken-s...@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:4457c456$1...@news01.wxnz.net...
> Calidad inks
>
> Yes I have used them for many years in my HP670 and HP690 printers. I
> never had a problem with clogging at all.
Be aware that the 95/97 cartrdiges have drop sizes about 10x smaller
than those from the old 600 series printers.
- Bob Headrick
Gary Tait
news:tjC5g.71787$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
> would never consider it. do not want to have a messy leak ruining my
> hp printer
>
> Ed Light wrote:
>
>>Has anyone here used Calidad refill kits for HP pigmented inks? Like
>>the HP 98 96 95 97 99 ?
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>
I'd never consider it either, I don't think they are a reputable vendor, on
hobbyist refill circles.
Gary Tait
>
> "Frank" <f...@nospamm.cmm> wrote
>
>> One other very important point Ed is that they have never ever tested
>> any of the excellent quality after market inks that are available.
>> And I'm not talking about "generic" bulk trash inks that hardly
>> anybody uses. I'm talking about the really excellent inks such as MIS
>> and Hobbiecolors.
>> These inks rival/beat oem inks.
>
> All-RIGHT!!!
>
> I Googled up MIS and they don't have ink for my model. But I love the
> transparent cartridges.
>
> I can't find Hobbiecolors?
Try hobbicolors. Search for them on eBay, as they exclusively sell
there. If they don't have what you want, ask.
Ed Light
"Gary Tait" <class...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Try hobbicolors.
hobbicolors.com's HP link is dead. It links to someplace on the same page
that doesn't exist.
I used the e-mail link to notify them.
Taliesyn
> "Gary Tait" <class...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>
>>Try hobbicolors.
>
>
> hobbicolors.com's HP link is dead. It links to someplace on the same page
> that doesn't exist.
>
> I used the e-mail link to notify them.
>
I'd say it's a link to a future offering. Obviously, HP compatible ink
isn't available yet. Same for Epson.
-Taliesyn
measekite
not disclose what they are selling. this is what they are publically
telling people.
TJ
> Just for the sake of accuracy and ease of understanding:
>
> Inkjet, bubblejet, or giclee printers use INKS
>
> The inks come in cartridges either with or without a printer head.
>
> The inks may be dye colorant (the color is dissolves in the liquid base,
> usually water), pigment colorant (the color is made of particles
> suspended in the base, usually water plus an adhesive water based
> plastic), or a hybrid sometimes referred to as "pigmented" which can
> have pigment grains that are further dyed.
>
If one has a bottle of refill ink labeled "pigmented" and it's not moved
more than once a month or so, should the bottle be shaken to re-suspend
any particles that may have settled out before refilling?
TJ
measekite
TJ wrote:
it will clog your printer if you shake it or do not shake it. pigmented
heads have a tendency to clog when used irregularly
>
> TJ
TJ
>
>
> TJ wrote:
>
>> If one has a bottle of refill ink labeled "pigmented" and it's not
>> moved more than once a month or so, should the bottle be shaken to
>> re-suspend any particles that may have settled out before refilling?
>
> it will clog your printer if you shake it or do not shake it. pigmented
> heads have a tendency to clog when used irregularly
>
I'll take that risk assessment under advisement, and consider it for
what it is worth. How about answering the question I asked?
TJ
Frank
Meahsershithead to actually answer any question truthfully?
Don't hold your breath!
Frank
Arthur Entlich
of making foam or bubbles.
Art
ytrewq
Huh? I don't think this is true. Please provide some sort of evidence for
this statement.
=====================
"trevor" <n...@home.now> wrote in message
news:7nb5g.6026$8q.3990@dukeread08...
> ken gracia wrote:
>
>> Question 1
>> Now I know that warrenties are not valid with printer manufacturers if
>> one
>> uses ink cartridges that are not the brand name
>
> Absolutely, categorically false, as ruled by the Magnussen-Moss act.
> http://think4inc.com/magnuson_moss.php
>
>> BUT is the ink in a
>> compatible cartridge the same ink quality that is in the brand name ones
>> I.E: Epson.
>>
>
> This absolutely depends upon the supplier. We try to surpass OEM quality
> in
> color-fastness and archival quality. Some people run junk out the door.
>
>> question 2
>> My printer an Epson has Pigmented ink in it's cartridges. Does anyone
>> know
>> if a compatible ink cartridge has pigmented ink?
>>
>
> Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented--that's what supplies the
> color to the ink. The big deal about pigmentation and generic or
> compatible
> ink is the milling of these pigments. Basically, it takes very
> sophisticated equipment to fill pigments as fine as they need to be to
> pass
> through nozzles or print head orifi in some printers such as Epson. Cheap
> ink from overseas may not have pigments finely milled enough for general
> usage.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> thINK4inc.com
>
Ed Light
turned out to not print below 1/2" from the bottom of the page. Not sure if
this is a defect or design -- have filed a support ticket.
Bob Headrick
"Ed Light" <nob...@nobody.there> wrote in message
news:E7P7g.1129$KB.708@fed1read08...
> Note: I may have recommended the HP 5940 in this thread. My new one
> has just turned out to not print below 1/2" from the bottom of the
> page. Not sure if this is a defect or design -- have filed a support
> ticket.
See page 20 of the manual at:
http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00453087.pdf
Borderless printing is only available on special media, not on plain
paper.
Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
Ed Light
"Bob Headrick" <bo...@proaxis.com> wrote in message
news:125vmer...@corp.supernews.com...
Isn't .59" a bit of a big bottom border?
It's happy to go to .07" on the top.
measekite
ytrewq wrote:
>>>Basically ALL inkjet printer ink is pigmented <<
>>>
>>>
>
>Huh? I don't think this is true. Please provide some sort of evidence for
>this statement.
>
>
that is false. and much of what you read in this ng is false. be sure
to filter what you read.
Bob Headrick
"Ed Light" <nob...@nobody.there> wrote in message
> Isn't .59" a bit of a big bottom border?
> It's happy to go to .07" on the top.
The printer will print borderless on photo or brochure paper. On plain
paper the top margin is 0.08", the bottom is 0.46" and the sides are
0.25".
- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
Ed Light
Thanks, Bob.
When I set the printer for a document to the HP 5940 (Actually 5900 series)
then if I set a bottom border greater than .59 a box warns me that I'm going
past the print area, and if I set it less than .55 the bottom text is cut
off when printing.
If I do a document in Wordpad with pdfCreator as the default printer and set
all the margins to zero, then print with the HP it, afterwards, has reset
them to left .13 right .13 top .07 bottom .59.