Inkjet -v- Laser for Photos ...and the winner is....
tomhoo
rollers need to be in absolutely perfect condition to get good shaded
images.
This simply isn't possible.
The inkjet, especially with heavy overlapping, has the ability to hide
printing problems if they exist. You can actually hid a clogged jet
with heavy overlapping.
No such luck with a laser.
So, the inkjet is simply superior to the laser.
Comments?
Thanks
Tom
Bob Headrick
"tomhoo" <tom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134678776....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
It is true that print modes can hide nozzle defects, where a few nozzles could
be completely plugged without any noticable degradation. On the other hand,
Laser's do not have nozzles to clog....
Laser prints have made great progress in the last few years in photo image
quality, but Inkjet's still have a clear edge today. The main advantages for
Inkjet are in the areas of glossy prints and color gamut.
Regards,
Bob Headrick
~~NoMad~~
especially on waterproof paper.
You best go with the laser.
MN
"tomhoo" <tom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134678776....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Panos Stokas
tomhoo
I just found a local Phaser 540 for $25. I couldn't resist so I bot
it. I has extra toners and is at 38k on the Imaging Unit.
I know the 8xx series uses solid color sticks, however, even the 540
"toner" is unusual. It is nothing like the toner used by say, a HP
Laserjet. The 540 toner, under the microscope, looks like melted
plastic flakes - the result of which is a nice, glossy presentation.
Even a simple black text printed on the 540 shames a typical HP
Laserjet due to this glossy print. You can actually feel it on the
paper if you try hard.
But it totally sucks for photos - longitudinal streaking.
tomhoo
cheapest papers.
m...@privacy.net
<tom...@gmail.com> writes
I think thats a side effect of a printer thats been out of production
for 7/8 (?) years.
--
Timothy
HankB
> Yea, But. If you want to print durable color brochures or business cards,
> especially on waterproof paper.
>
> You best go with the laser.
With my old mostly plugged inkjet (Epson 780) there were settings in
all of the print dialogs to select paper type. With my shiny new laser,
I see no such dialogs. I also don't see any recommendations in the
manual for paper other than a very concise description of the
requirements for plain paper.
Do lasers print on different paper types with no changes in settings?
Or does my color laser (HP 2550N) not print on other than plain stock.
And to let this thread drift... ;) A friend told me last night that
Canon makes all HP printers. He insists that they have an agreement to
use a different control panel and forward housing so they don't look
alike, but that the print engine is the same. I find this hard to
believe, particularly WRT the laser printers, but I thought I'd ask
anyway. (Maybe I chould check snopes.com)
thanks,
hank
tomhoo
completely different kinds of toner.
I know there are different types of toner, but I always thought you had
to have the specific one for the particular printer.
I know at work, out HP 5510 does not produce glossy print.
Tony
Hank
Most laserjets do have different paper settings, I don't specifically know
about the 2550 but I am surprised that the driver does not allow you to set up
paper types. Someone with one of these may be able to provide better
information.
On your other comment, you friend is mostly correct. In the early days HP used
Canon engines for all (or at least nearly all) of its lasers. So far as I know
this is still true. I don't even know whether HP assemble the printers or
whether Canon do it for them with the appropriate badges and different bits and
pieces. Certainly the formatter and case is HP specific but the engine is
nearly always Canon. Historically I believe that when HP wanted to build the
first Laserjets they approached Xerox to build the engines but this didn't
work out so HP went to Canon, what a difference a day can make, many millions
of printers later! So far as I know HP make their own inkjet engines but Bob
Headrick may be able to advise you on that question better than I can.
Tony
measekite
that now and definately not for inkjets.
Arthur Entlich
Laser technology has greatly improved over the years, and some come
close to photo quality. The problems however, have to do with many
factors. The toner is opaque or semi-opaque. Since it is pigments and
plastic, it tends to either be matte or semigloss surfaced, and it sits
on top of the paper, not integrated into the surface, so there is often
a major distinction between the heavily toned areas and those which have
little or none. The process of placing the dots onto the paper is less
regulated and the design tends to cause more dot gain, even if the
images was printed in the same resolution, and many inkjet offer higher
resolutions and more sophisticated dithering patterns.
Laser printer use 4 colors while some inkjets use up to 10, or even more.
However, I would not completely discount color laser printers, besides
that they produce a more permanent result in much less time, and often
at lower cost, is a positive. The technology continues to improve and
speed up even more.
New developments in micro-toners and new paper surfaces may eventually
make the color laser printer the place for quick less costly photo-like
images.
Art
Arthur Entlich
Art
Arthur Entlich
models. Also, solid ink (wax based) printers use nozzles, and if they
are not clear, they will streak.
Art
Arthur Entlich
the paper surface. It's an "intimate" relationship, and some work very
well together while others are disastrous, just like couples. ;-)
Laser printers use toner which is a solid, made of basically a pigment
color and a binding thermal plastic. As long as the plastic can bind to
the paper surface, it will usually work, and the result, although some
subtleties of the paper surface do matter, are not extremely dependent
on the paper.
Things that do alter the usability of paper in a laser printer,
especially a color one:
1) thickness of the paper. Since heat is used to adhere the
pigment/plastic mix to the paper, if the paper is very thick it may not
get hot enough while moving over the fuser to melt the toner at the
correct temperature. This may cause the toner to not stick well to the
surface, it may flake or even peel off. Some laser printers have a
"thick paper" mode that either increases the heat level of the fuser, or
slows the paper motion through the fuser to help adhesion to the paper.
2) stiffness of the paper: many laser printers have to wrap the paper
around a drum of a certain diameter. If the paper is very stiff, it may
not conform properly to this bend, may slip or not make proper contact,
causing smudged images or light and dark banding. The stiffness of a
paper can also depend on how it was milled... (which direction the
fibers were laid down in) You will notice some papers tell you which
direction to print them in.
3) glossy versus matte surface: Since the toner has such a physical
presence on the paper surface, it will impart a lot of the surface
quality. SOme toners are very matte, some are semi-gloss. Some change
depending upon heat levels used or if a release fuser oil is used to
keep the toner from transferring to the fuser rollers. Many use a
semi-gloss toner, which means on matte paper, the low toner areas will
be more matte than those areas with a lot of toner, and vice-versa on a
glossy paper. Some use a matte toner so it blends better with matte
paper surfaces.
4) Textured surface: Laser printers transfer the toner dust to the
paper via electrostatic charges, by charging one surface one charge and
the other the opposite. However these charges and the toner powder tend
to transfer best on a very flat paper surface. If the paper has a
coarse or deep texture, the toner will tend to be picked up more and
less depending on how close to the transfer belt or drum surface it is.
The flatter the paper surface, the better the transfer.
WARNING: In general inkjet papers are NOT appropriate for laser
printers. SOme inkjet papers have plastic surfaces either on the paper
itself to prevent too much ink absorption, to provide a smoother
surface, or to prevent curling. These papers can melt in a laser
printer, and destroy the drums or fuser. Some may have the wrong ionic
charge, and some have other surfaces that are abrasive in a laser
printer and damage the drum surfaces.
There are color photocopier bond papers made that have a smoother than
normal surface, more density and slightly heavier weight or at least
slightly more robust, since some color printers require running through
up to 4 transfer cycles per page.
In general, stick with papers designated for laser or bond papers. Look
for settings for thickness and glossy versus matte or coated versus
bond, but you won't see the same number as for an inkjet printer.
Art
kolorwell
thickness will reduce color saturation that means the printing
quality of image will be much white. If toner is possible to be
transferred completely from OPC drum to paper, the output printing
quality of laser printer is excellent!
You may refer this website about the tips of laser printing!
http://kolorwell.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/11012456/Laser_Printing_Photo_Paper.html
tomhoo
That was quite a dissertation on papers and how they work. Thanks for
the illumination!
Tom
PS. I was at Office Max and was looking at the color laser demo pages.
Some of the low cost models definitely have a nasty grainy image when
they rendered a little photo of the printer itset - it is a light
grey/cream color which is a very light shade. I think the cheap HP was
the best. They had Konica/Minolta, Brother, and I think maybe Canon.
None of them used glossy or even semigloss toner. Also checked out a
Samsung at BBuy and its demo was a duplex page - it was fun to watch
print - ejects about 2/3rd of the page and sucks it back it instantly.
Can definitely see the shading thru dots.
Anyone have anything to say about the old HP 5? There is a lot of
stuff still on eBay for them. I remember reading that they were proud
that they mixed the toner for a single pass - do I have that right?
Tony
I know this printer intimately (well we are at least very good friends!), but I
don't understand the question. There is only one toner compartment except for
the waste toner which is gone for ever, there is nothing to mix; or did I
misunderstand something? All monochrome lasers are single pass so far as I know.
Tony
m...@privacy.net
<e-prin...@mvps.org> writes
>The problem with streaking has been lessened in both solid ink and
>toner models. Also, solid ink (wax based) printers use nozzles, and
>if they are not clear, they will streak.
>
call them but a quick button press on the front (and no doubt some ink
being used up) and it clears itself.
--
Timothy
m...@privacy.net
HankB <hba...@gmail.com> writes
>
>With my old mostly plugged inkjet (Epson 780) there were settings in
>all of the print dialogs to select paper type. With my shiny new laser,
>I see no such dialogs. I also don't see any recommendations in the
>manual for paper other than a very concise description of the
>requirements for plain paper.
>
>Do lasers print on different paper types with no changes in settings?
>Or does my color laser (HP 2550N) not print on other than plain stock.
IME they normal have a couple of selections, usually either plain or
thick, and possibly transparency as well.
>And to let this thread drift... ;) A friend told me last night that
>Canon makes all HP printers. He insists that they have an agreement to
>use a different control panel and forward housing so they don't look
>alike, but that the print engine is the same. I find this hard to
>believe, particularly WRT the laser printers, but I thought I'd ask
>anyway. (Maybe I chould check snopes.com)
It's sort of right, Canon make lots of the print engines, as do Xerox,
then other companies will shove their own controller cards and software
round them to make them work. Sometimes it makes the machines look very
similar, eg: if you look at Xerox's cheap laser 6100(?) and Samsung's
CP500(?) they look very similar, or further up the cost price Canon's
CP660 and HP8550 (both A3 colour lasers) look very similar and I suspect
they are the same engine.
Or if you get further up the scale, Nashuatec and Infotec (and I think
Gestetner and Rex Rotary) rebadge Ricoh machines and Oce and Lanier seem
to do the same, and they seem to do some Canon ones as well.
--
Timothy
m...@privacy.net
<e-prin...@mvps.org> writes
>
>In general, stick with papers designated for laser or bond papers. Look
>for settings for thickness and glossy versus matte or coated versus
>bond, but you won't see the same number as for an inkjet printer.
>
paper in a good variety of thicknesses.
--
Timothy
Arthur Entlich
part toner with the developer mixed into the toner and both being used
to make the image (both are consumable). They developed a micro
particle developer that could be melted and fused to the sheet.
The other brands used a developer (megnetic/ceraminc particles) and then
a carbon black plastic (styrene) toner which coated the developer. As
the drum was charged the static pulled just the toner off the magnetic
particles, which remained for the most part behind stuck to the magnetic
roller.
Canon and HP made a toner that could be completely consumed, but this
toner was offered with the very first Laserjet printers, so it wasn't
something new to the HP LJ5.
The laser printer I regularly use today has separate toner and developer
(A Panasonic KX-P4420). The HP II I also own does supply a better
result, however.
Art
m...@privacy.net
<e-prin...@mvps.org> writes
>
>The laser printer I regularly use today has separate toner and developer
>(A Panasonic KX-P4420). The HP II I also own does supply a better
>result, however.
A Panasonic? Is it a Xerox engine then? I'm sure some (most?) Panasonics
are.
--
Timothy
Arthur Entlich
also branded as a Roland printer with a different model number.
I have a cheap Xerox "Workstation" (Laser printer/photocopier), and it
is actually made by Sharp.
I recently bought a DVD burner sold as a "retail plus" (which is just an
OEM packager). The drive was an IBM, but upon further research it was
actually an Hitachi made by LG. LG used to be called "Lucky Gold" but I
guess they realized that name didn't go over too well in North America
and Europe. Also, Lucky Gold developed a reputation for making very
cheap appliances from Korea.
Oh, did I mention the DVD burner failed out of box ;-) Maybe they still
make cheap appliances from Korea...
Art
m...@privacy.net
<e-prin...@mvps.org> writes
>I have no idea... I thought Panasonic actually made it. I think it was
>also branded as a Roland printer with a different model number.
What I was thinking of is the is KX-P8000 (or PS8000) series, look
remarkably like the (pre Xerox) Tektronix Phaser 740.
>I recently bought a DVD burner sold as a "retail plus" (which is just
>an OEM packager). The drive was an IBM, but upon further research it
>was actually an Hitachi made by LG. LG used to be called "Lucky Gold"
>but I guess they realized that name didn't go over too well in North
>America and Europe. Also, Lucky Gold developed a reputation for making
>very cheap appliances from Korea.
Someone at school had exactly the same scientific calculator as me,
except their had a little sticker over the Casio stamp on the back and
was thus rebadged as a Tandy (Radio Shack).
And my Viking memory card in the camera identifies itself to the
computer as a Toshiba.
--
Timothy
tomhoo
looked on eBay and there appears to be a 5, 5M, and 5L.
The toner cartridges are now listed at $5 with a lot of no bids. My
Phaser 540 is now at that state. I have a feeling that old model 5 is
a lot better than the 540 regarding mechanical robustness and photo
image quality.
Gary Tait
$Gd6.113276@pd7tw3no:
> I have a cheap Xerox "Workstation" (Laser printer/photocopier), and it
> is actually made by Sharp.
That is sometimes the case with some manufacturers, they build the premium
gear themselves, and contract a cheaper mass manufacture to make their
lower end line.
Tony
>No, there are 2 HP "5"s, a newer monochrome and an older color. I just
>looked on eBay and there appears to be a 5, 5M, and 5L.
The Laserjet 5 is a monochrome printer, it uses almost an identical engine to
the Laserjet 4+ (also monochrome).
The Laserjet 5L is an entry level monochrome printer, very slow and quite
reliable. It shares nothing with the Laserjet 5 which is bigger and much faster.
The Laserjet 5M has nothing in common with either of the above being old colour
technology. I didn't know there were any still around.
I'm not being pedantic, it is important to note that HP (and other
manufacturers) often use model names that confuse. For instance the Laserjet 4,
laserjet 4L and the Laserjet 4P are entirely different printers aimed at
different markets with nothing in common except the HP name. The Laserjet 5si
is an A3 printer, very fast but getting old now and has no commonality with any
of the other printers that have a 5 in them.
Tony
Tony
>In article <part1of1.1.L2Kr3$ajwR...@ue.ph>,
> Tony <TonytheT...@aim.com> wrote:
>
>> The Laserjet 5M has nothing in common with either of the above being old
>> colour
>> technology.
>
>Postscript module and a JetDirect card that does AppleTalk.
>
>the M stands for Macintosh.
Yes, right and wrong.
there is the Laserjet 5M, monochrome printer.
And the Color Laserjet 5M, colour printer, see
http://www.networkcomputing.com/704/704sneak1.html (dated 1996 I think).
As I said lots of room for confusion.
Tony
Tony
>In article <part1of1.1.L2Kr3$ajwR...@ue.ph>,
> Tony <TonytheT...@aim.com> wrote:
>
>> is an A3 printer, very fast but getting old now and has no commonality with
>> any
>> of the other printers that have a 5 in them.
>
>in common with the other printers that have a 4 in them.
And the LJ 8150 etc!
Tony