Epson printers are electronic theieves
Dr. Dweeb
I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both incompetant
and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.
I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.
Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.
After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.
I decided to print the test page.
Failure - and worse.
1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message. This
will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
having printed 1 character
Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print and
I am REALLY pissed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.
The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.
I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?
Where do I get my money back ??
Dr. Dweeb
Beach Runner
Well consider HP is Digital/compaq, I'd go for an HP printer.
Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER
>Well consider HP is Digital/compaq, I'd go for an HP printer.
Nope. HP is not DEC and even worse than EPSON in inks. Try CANON...
--
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail pe...@langstoeger.at
A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist
measekite
Dr. Dweeb wrote:
>Gentlemen,
>
>I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both incompetant
>and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.
>
>I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.
>
>Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
>read between 23-28%
>I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.
>
>After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.
>
>I decided to print the test page.
>
>Failure - and worse.
>
>
THAT SOUNDS GREAT. YOU SHOULD HAVE USED EPSON OEM INK AND YOU WOULD NOT
HAVE THE PROBLEM.
>1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message. This
>will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
>2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
>3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
>having printed 1 character
>
>Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print and
>I am REALLY pissed off.
>
IT IS BETTER TO BE PISSED OFF THEN PISSED ON. YOU GOT PISSED ON BY THE
AFTERMARKET WHORE YOU BOUGHT THE INK FROM
>Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
>branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.
>
>
BUY A NEW PRINTER ON SALE. THEY USUALLY COST ABOUT THE SAME AS THE
INK. NOW THAT IS TRUE FOR THE PRINTER ONLY. IF YOU HAD NOT BOUGHT A
MFD THEN YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE SCANNER.
>The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It is
>both amoral and illegal.
>
IF IT WAS ILLEGAL THEY WOULD NOT DO IT. IMORAL, WELL SO ARE THE WHORES
THAT SELL AFTERMARKET INK AND WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE BUYING.
>There is no technical reason for what has
>happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
>cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.
>
>I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?
>Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?
>
>Where do I get my money back ??
>
>
FROM THE WHORE YOU BOUGHT THE INK FROM.
>Dr. Dweeb
>
>
>
>
>
>
Davy
quote="Dr. Dweeb"
> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
>
Now that is naughty, very naughty indeed and it just goes to show what
Epson are getting up to.
It sounds like the current Epson trend, there should have been ample
warning that this printer will not work with 3rd party inks plainly
marked 'for all to see' on the outside of the box - not on the user
manual or left for the user to find out.
So whats happened here is you have bought a printer that will only
work with Epson ink and that it did not even indicate it.
Totally unfair a printer should not descriminate between brands of
ink
Epson have got you by the goolies.
Davy
Unknown
Terrible practice I agree.
Have you tried using the driver software to change all the cartridges again but
using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work. You need to change one
cartridge at a time. It will not work from the printer so you have to do it
from the maintenance/service or whatever tab in the printer driver and choose
to replace the cartridge early.
Tony
Paul Sture
> In article <DOc2f.181083$p_1.1...@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <b...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>>Well consider HP is Digital/compaq, I'd go for an HP printer.
>
>
> Nope. HP is not DEC and even worse than EPSON in inks. Try CANON...
>
cartridge ran out, and third party cartridges work fine.
Davy
[/quote:6888597503]
Well said Sir...!
I have had the ip5000 about 4 months and not one single problem or
manual nozzle clean yet, I can print and forget, with the Epsons I
had to check each prints even text docs. for flaws.
Canon uses ink where Epson wastes ink, plus fact you can see the ink
in the Canon's and they'er not chipped.
Davy
JF Mezei
> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print and
> I am REALLY pissed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
> branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.
Go to a printer cartridge refill place and buy the gizmo which
electronically resets the cartridges and some bulk ink.
You can then inject ink into cartridges, apply the gizmo to the epson
cartridge and snap it back into the printer.
Note that there was an article on CNET recently about how now about half
the people prefer to just go to some photo shop to have pictures printed
versus fiddling with their own printer/paper and INK, especially since
photo shops now cost much less for each image than printing it yourself.
> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me.
HP is the same. HP even prevents you from using cartridges that were
sold on another continent. They are desperate for revenus and will do
anything to ensure thatthey have a monopoly on their ink business.
JF Mezei
> Have you tried using the driver software to change all the cartridges again but
> using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you take
a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and put it
back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full. You need to
electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
into a printer before.
ato...@hotmail.com
On 9-Oct-2005, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote:
> Note that there was an article on CNET recently about how now about half
> the people prefer to just go to some photo shop to have pictures printed
> versus fiddling with their own printer/paper and INK, especially since
> photo shops now cost much less for each image than printing it yourself.
And with the on-line shops you get perfect prints on archive paper, not
dye images that fade. This assumes that you are proficient enough
to get the image right before you upload, but that applies to however
you print it. I've abandoned the landfill specialists.
Anna Daptor
"Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:43494643$0$78282$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
> Gentlemen,
>
> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
> incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.
>
> I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.
>
> Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
> read between 23-28%
> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.
>
> After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.
>
> I decided to print the test page.
>
> Failure - and worse.
>
> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.
> This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
So? That's no Epsons fault that the 3rd party inks you fitted don't identify
themselves correctly it is?
> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
Again, not exactly Epsons fault that 3rd party inks screwed up your ink
level settings.
[snip]
Anna Daptor
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
news:43497EE5...@teksavvy.com...
> Tony wrote:
>> Have you tried using the driver software to change all the cartridges
>> again but
>> using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
>
>
> EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you take
> a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and put it
> back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.
No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so you
*can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is in the
cart when you replace it.
> You need to
> electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
> into a printer before.
That's true if you've refilled the cart.
Shooter
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as a
buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink.
Any views on this.
"Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:43494643$0$78282$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
Dr. Dweeb
Guys,
The printer (an RX600 by the way, a typo before) is brand new.
This is the first attempt to change a cartridge !
Also, Epson sells different models in different markets and the ink is not
interchangeable. Generally speaking, for example, you cannot buy RX600 ink
in say, Thailand - since the model does not exist there. A geek in a BKK
ink shop said he did not think a Thai resetter would work, since the Thai
cartridges were a different part number with a different chip. I took his
word, though in retrospect I should have paid the 10 bucks just in case.
Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap. It is in no related to
the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on some arbitrary curve based on
the number of pages through the loop.
All in all, a pretty depressing situation.
It sure printed and scanned nice for a while though :-(
Dr. Dweeb
Dr. Dweeb
> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
> news:43497EE5...@teksavvy.com...
>> Tony wrote:
>>> Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
>>> cartridges again but
>>> using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
>>
>>
>> EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
>> take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
>> put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.
>
> No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
> you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
> in the cart when you replace it.
>
I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
mention this somewhere else IIRC.
The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily - the
final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10 pixel
logo.
I think it is a giant scheme of deceit and lies and I am really mad about
it.
Sadly, like almost everything else in the computer world, no one gives a FF.
and there is no where to lodge a complaint. Well maybe there is - I will
try during the week to harass support here and see what happens. I predict
abject failure.
Dr. Dweeb
Marky
> Anna Daptor wrote:
> > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
> > news:43497EE5...@teksavvy.com...
> >> Tony wrote:
> >>> Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
> >>> cartridges again but
> >>> using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
> >>
> >>
> >> EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
> >> take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
> >> put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.
> >
> > No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
> > you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
> > in the cart when you replace it.
> >
>
> I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
> mention this somewhere else IIRC.
>
> The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily -
the
> final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
> pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10
pixel
> logo.
If the ink cartridges that you are not changing have not updated the
information for the driver (unless you are using one of the standalones with
the LCD readout) it may be that the level was lower than was showing and
when you charged the black ink cartridge the other levels were reset...
One thing about Epson printers and their 'Smart Cartridges' is they are only
as smart as the last update to the driver...and they do not have actual
sensors but the ink levels are calculated based on number of sheets printed,
cleaning cycles performed, on/off processing, and cartridge charging...
This is not the best design but it works fairly accurately most of the
time...and I'd imagine that a better design would probably increase MSRP out
of the competitors leagues initially...
Marky
Have you tried changing the other ink cartridges with Epson and then
swapping the third party carts back in? Sometimes this works...sometimes it
doesn't...
Anna Daptor
"Shooter" <photoman5...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dic3tq$ag6$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.
Since when? There's *nothing* stopping anybody using 3rd party inks in Epson
or any other printer. Epson are just employing scare tactics in an attempt
at ensuring their cash cow. Using 3rd party inks has no baring on any
warranty claims.
Marky
"Shooter" <photoman5...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dic3tq$ag6$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
> opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
> then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as
a
> buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM
ink.
> Any views on this.
Using third party inks in NA does not void your warranty and should not void
a warranty anywhere...what we were doing is if the printer came in and we
put in Epson inks and the printer worked properly the customer could be
charged for the ink cartridges (since they take the credit card info)...I
don't remember ever hearing of this being done but it was always an
option...
My question would be "if Epson honors their warranty by replacing the
printer and the end user gets a working model (with free Epson inks) but
then messes it up again with non-Epson cartridges, should Epson keep
replacing the unit free or should they charge the customer?".
Why should Epson honor the warranty when they know that it is the inks that
messed the printer up?
I've had customers admit that they used third party inks and then freaked
out when I told them that if the inks are responsible the warranty for that
issue would not be valid...but their warranty is not voided by simply using
these inks.
Epson recently changed their policy in NA where they will now do support on
non-Epson inks...prior to the lawsuit they could simply refuse to
troubleshoot until the customer put in Epson inks (but who is to know?).
That was always good for a trip to my supervisor for the customer...:)
Dr. Dweeb
> This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
> warranty claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be
> used. it is my opinion that if they do not state plainly that other
> ink can not be used then in the UK there could be room for litigation
> for misrepresentation as a buyer is buying only a printer and is not
> and should not be tied to OEM ink. Any views on this.
>
It is clearly a dubious practice - and likely illegal. Was there not a
principle case on this matter in the US courts against HP on this very issue
? (memory fuzzy on this)
Dweeb
Roy
news:dic3tq$ag6$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
> opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
> then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as
> a
> buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM
> ink.
> Any views on this.
>
Hi.
I agree with you.
If you buy something it is yours, the previous owner or manufacturer has no
say over how you decide to use it, or resell it or anything. If you choose
to put 3rd party ink into your printer, or print on 3rd party paper, then
Epson would have to prove that those caused the problem before they could
dishonour the warranty.
The UK law of Contract is perfectly clear that a Contract can not be altered
by one party after the Contract is made. So if Epson have set up the
Printer so that it will stop working if you insert 3rd party cartridges,
that fact would need to be explained to you, by the seller, BEFORE you
bought the Printer, or you could sue them for Breach of Contract.
Any Conditions Notices etc, which are within the box, have no validity,
because the Contract commences when the Seller agrees to sell you the
printer, it is already in effect by the time you open the box.
Likewise with the Cartridges. If a 3rd party cartridge is sold to you as
being suitable for use in XXX Printer, and then causes that Printer to fail,
then the 3rd Party Seller is in Breach of Contract.
The only problem, and it is a very big one, is the cost of taking legal
action, especially against a large Multi-National, but if a large enough
group of individuals got together - Merry Hell could be raised.
I know of a case where Durst were being bloody minded about the rollers on
their home photo paper processing machine becoming sticky, and jamming,
because of a reaction with the chemicals. Lots of people were having major
problems, and getting nowhere. A friend was getting the run-around by
Durst, being told all sorts of rubbish about it being his fault, or just one
of those things, etc, etc.
He eventually got an admission and the refund, but only after he wrote using
his official notepaper. He just happened to be a High Court Judge.
Roy G
Dave Froble
Maybe your next printer should ba a laser printer, not an inkjet. If
you need color, such exist. Myself, I will never purchase another
inkjet type printer. (Or take a free one.)
When selecting a printer, be sure to check out the cost of replacement
parts, toner, drum, and such. Also check out the tech support. Stay
away from the companys where you have to pay to talk to tech support.
The above suggestions were obtained through trial and much error.
Printer companies are at the top of my permanant s**t list.
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. Fax: 724-529-0596
DFE Ultralights, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
measekite
Tony wrote:
TONY DA TIGER IS IN DA BUSINESS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
measekite
measekite
ato...@hotmail.com wrote:
>On 9-Oct-2005, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Note that there was an article on CNET recently about how now about half
>>the people prefer to just go to some photo shop to have pictures printed
>>versus fiddling with their own printer/paper and INK, especially since
>>photo shops now cost much less for each image than printing it yourself.
>>
>>
>
>And with the on-line shops you get perfect prints on archive paper, not
>dye images that fade.
>
YOU DO NOT GET PERFECT PRINTS CHEAPLY BECAUSE THE TECH WILL NOT AND
CANNOT RUN THE IMAGE THRU PHOTOSHOP AND EDIT IT TO GET THAT PERFECT
IMAGE. AND EVEN IF HE WOULD WHAT MAY BE PERFECT TO HIM IS NOT TO YOU.
NOW IF YOU WANT TO DO THE EDITING YOURSELF YOU CAN THEN COPY THE EDITIED
MATERIAL ON TO A CD AND INSTRUCT THE SHOP TO PRINT WITHOUT ADJUSTMENTS.
measekite
Anna Daptor wrote:
GREAT
>
>
>
measekite
Anna Daptor wrote:
THATS RIGHT BUT IT IS GREAT. A NICE LESSON LEARNED.
>
>
>
measekite
Shooter wrote:
>This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
>claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.
>
WHY SHOULD THEY LOOSE MONEY BECAUSE SOME WHORE CLOGGED THE PRINTHEAD.
measekite
Dr. Dweeb wrote:
I AM ENJOYING THIS THREAD IMMENSELY
measekite
Anna Daptor wrote:
THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING ANYONE FROM BEING A FOOL.
>
>
>
>
>
Jeff Cameron
water, here are some comparative prices of liquids.
Items $/gallon
Gasoline $ 3.00
Milk $ 2.99
Coca-Cola $ 2.84
Gatorade $ 5.20
Evian Water $ 5.60
Orange Juice $ 6.64
Crisco Oil $ 7.44
Perrier Water $ 8.16
Snapple $ 10.32
Scope Mouthwash $ 27.20
Lemon Oil $ 27.22
Olive Oil $ 51.04
Shampoo $ 40.44
Real Maple Syrup $ 57.08
Jack Daniel's Bourbon $ 101.12
Visine Eye Drops $ 995.84
Nasacort Nasal Spray $2,615.28
Printer ink $8,895.72
Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains
17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.
All prices are in US dollars, and are subject to change...
Jeff Cameron
Reference: http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=152
On 10/9/05 9:33 AM, in article
43494643$0$78282$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk, "Dr. Dweeb"
S
> Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap. It is in no related to
> the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on some arbitrary curve based on
> the number of pages through the loop.
Even then, it should not stop you from printing if it gets to -1%. Is
there a damage if you try to print with an empty head? Blah.
And I see no technical reason why replacing some ink here would affect
the ink levels somewhere else - so I certainly want to blame Epson for
that as well. Those software decisions are either plain stupid (which I
don't think so) or on purpose to screw the customer.
But, this seems the today's business general practice anyway.
S
Shooter
County Court action I brought against Epson UK and lost.
"Anna Daptor" <An...@radio.active.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pei2f.15605$4Q....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
Shooter
"Roy" <royp...@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zhj2f.11572$Nv6....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
Davy
WITH THE IP4000
>
> Davy wrote:
>
> [[quote:6888597503]quote="Peter 'EPLAN' Try CANON...
>
Well said Sir...!
I have had the ip5000 about 4 months and not one single problem or
manual nozzle clean yet, I can print and forget, with the Epsons I
had to check each prints even text docs. for flaws.
Canon uses ink where Epson wastes ink, plus fact you can see the ink
in the Canon's and they'er not chipped.[/quote:128c683fec]
[/quote:128c683fec]
Yes indeed I did say that, I will also say....
"Another Epson another catch".
My belief, rightly or wrongly-:
The purpose of the ink chip was initially to stop the cartridge from
drying out, to leave a certain amount of ink in the tank. You get an
empty tank what happens is when you come to replace it you get a
volume of ink sitting on top of a volume of air - which can not be
shifted this is called an 'airlock' this will ruin the heads, as it
can not be shifted.
That is exactly why there is a fair percentage of ink left in the
cartridge 'when the stop flag is waved '.
But now they have latched on to the idea of making the Epson owner
pay, taking the C84 it is claimed that 20% of ink left in it's tank
when empty
see link-:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114590,00.asp here's a wee
snippet,
Quote
Epson doesn't disclose its target residual ink levels, nor will the
company comment on why Unquote.
What does that say about the other models, well I feel it's not to rip
people off because they can do that by using a smaller amount of ink.
Bearing in mind what I've just mentioned above plus spare for flushing
and cleaning - that's sure is one reason why they don't make their
cartridges transparent.
Davy
Davy
Marky
"Jeff Cameron" <rok...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:BF6F410D.155AA%rok...@comcast.net...
> In a world where Gasoline prices are rising, but is still less than
bottled
> water, here are some comparative prices of liquids.
> Items $/gallon
> Gasoline $ 3.00
> Milk $ 2.99
> Coca-Cola $ 2.84
> Gatorade $ 5.20
> Evian Water $ 5.60
> Orange Juice $ 6.64
> Crisco Oil $ 7.44
> Perrier Water $ 8.16
> Snapple $ 10.32
> Scope Mouthwash $ 27.20
> Lemon Oil $ 27.22
> Olive Oil $ 51.04
> Shampoo $ 40.44
> Real Maple Syrup $ 57.08
> Jack Daniel's Bourbon $ 101.12
> Visine Eye Drops $ 995.84
> Nasacort Nasal Spray $2,615.28
> Printer ink $8,895.72
Interesting...but you left out coffee...at approximately $1.50 for .25
litre, we're looking at somewhere around $24 per gallon...give or take a few
dollars...
Davy
quote="Shooter"]Yes Roy, but the contract in the UK is with the
retailer and not Epson.Yes Roy, but the contract in the UK is with
the retailer and not Epson.[/quote:71b181c82f]
So to clarify.
The purchaser sue's the retailer and the retailer sue's Epson, or more
politely claim.
The retailer may have no knowledge of any downfall with the product.
Sounds like tough luck on the retailer, so who pay's the legal
bill..?
Davy
Davy
zakezuke
> If you bought milk by the ml, it would cost that much.
It probally wouldn't. Granted the smallest unit of milk you can buy is
240ml and that costs somewhere in the buck range... where a gal will
cost me three bucks. I expect it's more costly by a factor of 6 to buy
milk in a smaller quanity. I buy milk by the gallon, or sometimes by
the 1/2 gal when it's cheaper than the full gallon.
I can buy bulk ink for either $2.50/oz ($320/gal), or $85/gal in a big
jug. This is about a factor of 4.
Shooter
to have some other reason to sue the manufacturer namely incorrect info in
the spec and the like. Apoint would be that Epson say the 2100 will not
print gloss paper and infact epson do not advertise a gloss paper for the
machine, however it spec suggests gloss paper but when challanged Epson say,
oh yes that is semi gloss. I am sure you see the problem, I agree with the
Dr that it is shameful but it appears legal.
"Davy" <dav...@blueyonder.co-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Lsr2f.87085$XF5....@fe02.news.easynews.com...
Anna Daptor
> No you are wrong, I refer to my many posts regarding the the loss of a
> County Court action I brought against Epson UK and lost.
Get yourself a better lawyer. One that knows the law might be a good idea.
irwell
Suggest it is false reasoning. One gallon of gas would transport
you and the car about 20-30 miles.
One gallon of Bourbon would kill anybody drinking it at one go.
One gallon of eye drops would keep a small town's population
medicated for a month.
One gallon of printer ink would supply how many year's worth
of printing?
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 21:50:05 -0700, Jeff Cameron <rok...@comcast.net>
wrote:
Davy
> This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
warranty
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.
>
>
first one - OEM inks was used on both printers.
And they told me the guarantee is not transfered to the exchanged one,
in other words if the exchanged one broke down that was it.
Bad practice, poor company = Crap company AND nothing better.
Davy
Gary Tait
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> Granted the smallest unit of milk you can buy is
> 240ml
Where I am, anything 500 ml or less is taxed as a snack, greater than 500
ML is taxed as a staple, even chocolate milk.
Gary Tait
rok...@comcast.net:
> Printer ink $8,895.72
>
> Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains
> 17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.
>
You are forgetting that the HP ink includes a printer head, as well as a
slightly more complicated container, say as a bottle of soda has.
Most of those other fluids come in more or less just a container (possibly
re-used), or stored in your own container (eg gasoline).
George E. Cawthon
container (cartridge), without which the ink would
be useless? None of the other liquids come in a
high tech container requiring exacting processes
to manufacture. As an alternative include the
price of a new car to use the gasoline.)
Of course, comparing liquid costs has little to do
with anything, did you try to figure out the cost
of inoculations or liquid medicines?
None the less, take water, which costs nothing so
the profit is infinite, or the Visine which
probably cost 50 cents to manufacture.
George E. Cawthon
I've heard of that. It's got to be one of the
most outrageous laws devised. And the stupidest
constituency to put up with it.
JF Mezei
> Wonderful, but did deduct the cost of the hitect
> container (cartridge), without which the ink would
> be useless?
This goes both ways.
Some laser printers allow you to just refill the toner cartridge, while
others expect you to change half the imaging unit including the OPC drum.
So if HP designs its cartridges so that the print head lasts only for a
few ML of ink and needs to be replaced after that, it is part of the
cost for those ML of ink.
If the print head can actually last more than 17ml of ink, then the
cartridge is not size properly and the amount of ink in it should match
the true capability of the print head.
Either way, HP wants to to spend megabucks as often as possible to buy
new expensive cartridges that are made more complex than they really
need to be.
Coke competes against Pepsi, so they have every incentive to make their
bottles as low cost as possible. They aren't about to start puting fancy
electronics and presuisre monitors in those bottles because that would
make them uncompetitive.
Printer manufacturers compete on the initial purchase price of the
printer. They strive to lower those costs to compete, but they all
collude to keep price of ink cartridges high so that they can make their
money on cartridge in the long term. (not different from razor companies
when each company hd their own prorietary razor blades, so while the
actual razor was cheap, you were then forced to buy that manufacturer's
razor blades which weren't cheap). Same applies to diabetes test units.
The units are given away free, but you are then forced to buy the test
strips from them for a long time.
Now, when consumers start to revolt angainst the ink cartridge tactics,
the manufacturers will be forced to come up with more expensive printers
but much cheaper ink systems. And it may result in manufactirersr
seeling printers, print heads and ink separately. (change print head
once a year, buy new ink often but at much lower cost).
The fact that photo shops now offer prints much cheaper than what a home
printer can do is an indication that folsk like HP and EPSON will have
to revioew their printer philosophies eventually.
Jeff Cameron
to exhibit the irony rather than foster a reasonable debate.
JC
On 10/10/05 8:06 AM, in article nk0lk1t47mbbgav9k...@4ax.com,
Shooter
"Anna Daptor" <An...@radio.active.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8bt2f.12180$qR5....@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
Shooter
"Davy" <dav...@blueyonder.co-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:QPw2f.100218$nF6....@fe04.news.easynews.com...
Jeff Cameron
to exhibit the irony rather than foster a reasonable debate.
JC
On 10/10/05 11:14 AM, in article
lcy2f.128129$qY1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "George E.
measekite
Davy
*I JUST SIT HERE AND WATCH ALL YOU ? JERK EACH OTHER OFF.*
>
> Wotsa matter have you no energy, or have you nothing to jerk.
>
> Davy
Syltrem
news:4349939e$0$78284$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
> Anna Daptor wrote:
> > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
> > news:43497EE5...@teksavvy.com...
> >> Tony wrote:
> >>> Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
> >>> cartridges again but
> >>> using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
> >>
> >>
> >> EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
> >> take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
> >> put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.
> >
> > No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
> > you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
> > in the cart when you replace it.
> >
>
> I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
> mention this somewhere else IIRC.
>
> The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily -
the
> final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
> pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10
pixel
> logo.
>
> I think it is a giant scheme of deceit and lies and I am really mad about
> it.
>
> Sadly, like almost everything else in the computer world, no one gives a
FF.
> and there is no where to lodge a complaint. Well maybe there is - I will
> try during the week to harass support here and see what happens. I
predict
> abject failure.
>
> Dr. Dweeb
>
> >> You need to
> >> electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
> >> into a printer before.
> >
> > That's true if you've refilled the cart.
>
>
I have an Epson printer at home.
Agreed that their cartridges are way too pricey, and mine cannot be replaced
by another brand (no one else makes them for some obscure technical reason).
They cannot be refilled either.
Anyway, they can be pulled out of the printer and reinserted, and the
printer will remember the ink level.
I did that with Epson support 2 weeks ago when my printer suddenly refused
to print colors (only black).
And YMMV but even though my warranty was finished for awhile, after a
miserable result (colors were printing but not clean) support said "Ship the
printer to us and we will repair it under warranty". Shipping was free, too.
The printer was finally replaced for a brand new one of the newer model, in
3 days.
They do have business practices I do not agree with but their support, at
least in this instance, was superior.
Call support (as it seems you have not done so yet) and they may help you
very well.
--
Syltrem
http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en français)
Davy
>
> Anyway, they can be pulled out of the printer and reinserted, and
the
> printer will remember the ink level.
> I
Its the chip on the ink tank what stores the data, send's the data
to the printers CPU and 'flags' it to stop printing when the time
comes.
The newer printers sound's as though there is additional info within
the CPU to say, "hey up, this ain't an Epson cartridge, lets play
silly devils".
The newer printer's give the impression Seiko Epson are getting a
little concerned about 3rd party inks.
People seem to tolerate this practice by buying their printers, what
it needs is a body of people getting together and making a little
point to Epson.
I wonder what the attitude would really be if Epson made their
printer's Epson ink only.. ?
I imagine they would like to do this but it make's their knees shake
at the possible outcome.
Davy
p...@pgrahams.com
|Gentlemen,
|
|Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
|read between 23-28%
|I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.
|Failure - and worse.
|
|1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message. This
|will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
I would suggest that Gold-Ink is also guilty. If their ink doesn't
work, they should not sell it (unless there is something "Special"
about your particular printer);
Phil
Gary Tait
news:lcy2f.128129$qY1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> did deduct the cost of the hitect
> container (cartridge), without which the ink would
> be useless? None of the other liquids come in a
> high tech container requiring exacting processes
> to manufacture. As an alternative include the
> price of a new car to use the gasoline.)
>
>
To be fair tohugh, Gasoline takes an expensive machine to dispense and
meter, considering its flammable nature. Plus thingd like milk require
refrigeration.
Dr. Dweeb
> "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> news:43499285$0$78279$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
>> Dr. Dweeb wrote:
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
>>> incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little
>>> asses.
>>> I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.
>>>
>>> other 5 read between 23-28%
>>> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from
>>> Gold-Ink.
>>>
>>> ink.
>>> I decided to print the test page.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
>>> message. This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
>>> 3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not
>>> yet having printed 1 character
>>>
>>> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
>>> print and I am REALLY pissed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even
>>> of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.
>>>
>>> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes
>>> me. It is both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason
>>> for what
>>> has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a
>>> non-Epson cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.
>>>
>>> I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I
>>> give up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally
>>> apprpriate ?
>>> Where do I get my money back ??
>>>
>>> Dr. Dweeb
>>
>>
>> The printer (an RX600 by the way, a typo before) is brand new.
>> This is the first attempt to change a cartridge !
>>
>> Also, Epson sells different models in different markets and the ink
>> is not interchangeable. Generally speaking, for example, you cannot
>> buy RX600 ink in say, Thailand - since the model does not exist
>> there. A geek in a BKK ink shop said he did not think a Thai
>> resetter would work, since the Thai cartridges were a different part
>> number with a different chip. I took his word, though in retrospect
>> I should have paid the 10 bucks just in case.
>>
>> Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap. It is in no
>> related to the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on some
>> arbitrary curve based on the number of pages through the loop.
>>
>> All in all, a pretty depressing situation.
>>
>> It sure printed and scanned nice for a while though :-(
>
> Have you tried changing the other ink cartridges with Epson and then
> swapping the third party carts back in? Sometimes this
> works...sometimes it doesn't...
The other ones ARE original Epson
Dr. Dweeb
> you need color, such exist. Myself, I will never purchase another
> inkjet type printer. (Or take a free one.)
>
> When selecting a printer, be sure to check out the cost of replacement
> parts, toner, drum, and such. Also check out the tech support. Stay
> away from the companys where you have to pay to talk to tech support.
>
> The above suggestions were obtained through trial and much error.
> Printer companies are at the top of my permanant s**t list.
Guys,
This is not about money. I spend twice as much as the printer cost on
airfares every week. This is a matter of principle - I just hate being
ripped off.
And again, the printer performed exactly as it should until this incident
and I was happy with it as it met my requirements.
Dweeb
Dr. Dweeb
> "Shooter" <photoman5...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dic3tq$ag6$1...@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> warranty claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be
>> ink can not be used then in the UK there could be room for
>> litigation for misrepresentation as a buyer is buying only a printer
>> and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink. Any views on this.
>
> Using third party inks in NA does not void your warranty and should
> not void a warranty anywhere...what we were doing is if the printer
> came in and we put in Epson inks and the printer worked properly the
> customer could be charged for the ink cartridges (since they take the
> credit card info)...I don't remember ever hearing of this being done
> but it was always an option...
>
> My question would be "if Epson honors their warranty by replacing the
> printer and the end user gets a working model (with free Epson inks)
> but then messes it up again with non-Epson cartridges, should Epson
> keep replacing the unit free or should they charge the customer?".
>
> Why should Epson honor the warranty when they know that it is the
> inks that messed the printer up?
>
> I've had customers admit that they used third party inks and then
> freaked out when I told them that if the inks are responsible the
> warranty for that issue would not be valid...but their warranty is
> not voided by simply using these inks.
>
> Epson recently changed their policy in NA where they will now do
> support on non-Epson inks...prior to the lawsuit they could simply
> refuse to troubleshoot until the customer put in Epson inks (but who
> is to know?).
>
> That was always good for a trip to my supervisor for the customer...:)
>
Recall, my printer was functioning flawlessly to my great satisfaction unil
I inserted a new 3. arty cartridge - the result of which is that I have not
printed one character since, 5 cartridges that formerlly contained plenty of
ink are now "empty" and the new cartridge has declined to 84%.
All of this without a single page being printed.
Clogging is not an issue I have raised.
Dweeb
>> "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:43494643$0$78282$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
Arthur Entlich
should not have dropped to zero unless they were very close to that
prior to your replacing the black cartridges. Each time a cartridge is
replaced, about 5-10% of all cartridges ink supply is removed, since the
printer does a purge cycle and cannot run a purge process on only one
cartridge, so instead all the cartridges are equally drained. If they
all happened to be fairly low they may have been drained to zero or
there about.
This is why I'm not keen on individual ink cartridges, since each time
one is replaced, all other cartridges lose a fair amount of ink.
In the end probably the cheapest printer to run is a 4 color (CMYK)
using ganged cartridges (CMY and K).
Art
Arthur Entlich
In fact, one of the reasons Epson has been able to get away with their
chip monitoring system, which requires refilled cartridges to be
reprogrammed, is because it is promoted as a feature because you can
remove the cartridge and rental it at a later time WITHOUT losing the
ink level reported. For instance, let's say you decide you want to put
a fair amount of unsupervised printing while you are asleep. You might
wish to replace one or more cartridges with fresh ones to be sure you
won't run low on ink during the night. Then the following day, you
might wish to reinstall the old cartridges to use them up. Since the
presumed ink levels are recorded within the chip on the cartridge, the
printer immediately knows the anticipated ink levels. I use the term
anticipated, because the chip doesn't actually read the amount of ink in
the cartridge, but rather makes an intelligent estimate based upon the
number of dots the printer has expressed in any one ink color.
Art
JF Mezei wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>
>>Have you tried using the driver software to change all the cartridges again but
>>using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
>
>
>
> EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you take
> a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and put it
> back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full. You need to
Arthur Entlich
the labs may provide a better alternative.
However, do keep in mind even photo papers may ne less archival than
current pigment colorant inks.
Art
ato...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 9-Oct-2005, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Note that there was an article on CNET recently about how now about half
>>the people prefer to just go to some photo shop to have pictures printed
>>versus fiddling with their own printer/paper and INK, especially since
>>photo shops now cost much less for each image than printing it yourself.
>
>
> And with the on-line shops you get perfect prints on archive paper, not
> dye images that fade. This assumes that you are proficient enough
> to get the image right before you upload, but that applies to however
> you print it. I've abandoned the landfill specialists.
Arthur Entlich
warranty repair due to 3rd party inks being used. Different countries
have differing laws regarding the nature of wraranty, so you may be
correct for the UK.
Art
Shooter wrote:
> This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
> opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
> then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as a
> buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink.
> Any views on this.
>
> "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> news:43494643$0$78282$157c...@dreader1.cybercity.dk...
>
Arthur Entlich
your claim and see what they have to say. It is very possible there was
a defect in this machine.
Art
Dr. Dweeb wrote:
> Anna Daptor wrote:
>
>>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei...@teksavvy.com> wrote in message
>>news:43497EE5...@teksavvy.com...
>>
>>>Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>>Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
>>>>cartridges again but
>>>>using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.
>>>
>>>
>>>EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
>>>take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
>>>put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.
>>
>>No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
>>you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
>>in the cart when you replace it.
>>
>
>
> I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
> mention this somewhere else IIRC.
>
> The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily - the
> final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
> pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10 pixel
> logo.
>
> I think it is a giant scheme of deceit and lies and I am really mad about
> it.
>
> Sadly, like almost everything else in the computer world, no one gives a FF.
> and there is no where to lodge a complaint. Well maybe there is - I will
> try during the week to harass support here and see what happens. I predict
> abject failure.
>
> Dr. Dweeb
>
>
>>>You need to
>>>electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
>>>into a printer before.
>>
Arthur Entlich
I just bought some extra-extra virgin 3 litres for under $20 CAN.
Same goes for maple syrup... I pay about $10 CAN per litre.
Art
Jeff Cameron wrote:
Davy
quote="Arthur Entlich"
> This is why I'm not keen on individual ink cartridges, since each
time
> one is replaced, all other cartridges lose a fair amount of ink.
>
So if I just print anything with Cyan and Yellow by the time when the
ink tank requires replacement there is going to be a fair amount of
Magenta ink left,
and yes we know the three colours are mixed.
What I am saying here is if you don't use all the colours equally
there is bound to more left of one colour when the 'red flag' is
'waved'.
That is the downfall of a combi-cartridge... not exactly fair.
Davy
Davy
[quote:9ef5402e41="Davy"][quote:9ef5402e41]quote
> This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
warranty
> claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.
>
>
first one - OEM inks was used on both printers.
And they told me the guarantee is not transfered to the exchanged one,
in other words if the exchanged one broke down that was it.
Bad practice, poor company = Crap company AND nothing better.
Davy[/quote:9ef5402e41][/quote:9ef5402e41]
Poor company = Crap company as I have said before, their policies are
not exactly up-front considering this and their ink tanks saga.
Davy
Arthur Entlich
averages out to within about 10% of all colors used equally (of CMY), so
the waste is minimal in the vast majority of cases.
This is different with 6 or more colors. The light C and M inks are
used at twice the rate as the darker C and M inks, usually,
Art
Davy
subject matter printed by a home printer
averages out to within about 10% of all colors used equally (of CMY),
so
the waste is minimal in the vast majority of cases.
I was looking at what looks like a practical point of view, all ink is
used to some extent, the way I see it is if you printed a fair amount
of yellow then the other colours are gonna outlast the yellow.
In 'this' case the yellow is gonna run out well before the others,
with a combi-tank as I call them, it really does depend on what the
'user' decides to print.
This could leave another question with combi's, are all the ink
level's the same on a new tank..???? would this mean some colours
like yellow would be used as a 'mixer', meaning to say more yellow is
supplied - splitting hairs here I guess when this ain't really the OP
issue.
Note: I was using say the tri-coloured tank for ref. whats is the
main advantage of a multi coloured tank..sure does seem to have more
dis-advantages compared to 'seperates'.
Davy
measekite
measekite
Dr. Dweeb wrote:
Wayne Sewell
On 10/12/2005 12:11:37 measekite <inkys...@oem.com> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------060306040308030901020600
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> *D**A BULLSHIT XCHANGE*
>
> --------------060306040308030901020600--
Using MIME in a newsgroup is the true meaning of bullshit exchange.
Frank
Measershithead is the true meaning of sewerage.
Frank
measekite
Frank wrote:
> Wayne Sewell wrote:
>
>>
>> On 10/12/2005 12:11:37 measekite <inkys...@oem.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>> --------------060306040308030901020600
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>
>>
>>> *D**A BULLSHIT XCHANGE*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --------------060306040308030901020600--
>>
>>
>>
>> Using MIME in a newsgroup is the true meaning of bullshit exchange.
>
>
> I an the true meaning of sewerage.
> Frank
AND SHIT TOO
Jon
I only lurk here but I tend to agree with others assessment of you. I
see that every time someone post something you will go in and change
their post. What is that all about. Are you too limited that you can't
come up your own original posting. Or else you post in all caps
something that is totally meaningless and very obnoxious.
Don't bother to answer me cause I am going to take others advice and
kill file you. I just found out how to do that. I have had enough of
your no help answers and useless waste of my bandwidth.
jon
Frank
Good idea. Everyone should kill file his stupid ass then he can only
talk to himself.
Frank
measekite
Frank wrote:
> Good idea. Everyone should kill file my stupid ass then I can only
> talk to me.
> Frank
Arthur Entlich
manufacturers have addressed this by supplying a slightly larger yellow
tank (HP does this on some printers), in fact, they have a series of
individual color cartridges where the yellow, light cyan and light
magenta have about double the volume of the deep magenta and cyan.
With five color plus black or more colors individual cartridges probably
make sense, since the light magenta and cyan are typically used at about
twice the volume of the other colors. But with the tri-set (CMY) it is
less clear.
Again it has to do with the amount of ink lost in the initial purge
cycle when a new cartridge is installed. If you have individual color
cartridges, then each time a new one is installed, all cartridges suffer
the installation ink removal, so any one cartridge can suffer through
2-3 even 4 initial purges during it's life and that wastes a lot of ink.
Art
m...@privacy.net
<e-prin...@mvps.org> writes
>Again it has to do with the amount of ink lost in the initial purge
>cycle when a new cartridge is installed. If you have individual color
>cartridges, then each time a new one is installed, all cartridges
>suffer the installation ink removal, so any one cartridge can suffer
>through 2-3 even 4 initial purges during it's life and that wastes a
>lot of ink.
Is this always the case? eg: If you replace the C could it not just
prep/purge the C part of the print head?
--
Timothy
Bob Headrick
"Arthur Entlich" <e-prin...@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:1%p3f.172021$1i.139388@pd7tw2no...
> Again it has to do with the amount of ink lost in the initial purge cycle
> when a new cartridge is installed. If you have individual color cartridges,
> then each time a new one is installed, all cartridges suffer the installation
> ink removal, so any one cartridge can suffer through 2-3 even 4 initial
> purges during it's life and that wastes a lot of ink.
This is true for most manufacturers. The new HP Photosmart 3300 series
Al-in-one and the Photosmart 8250 uses a recirculation system. Rather than
purging ink into a large "diaper" in the printer they recirculate the ink uses
for purges back into the supply. Depending on the frequency of printing this
can be a large difference in efficiency. Besides the purging that occurs at
ink supply replacement there are also typically time based and usage based
purge events that may do a smaller purge every few days. Recirculating this
ink rather than pumping it into a diaper can make a large difference in actual
cost per page of printing.
Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
Wayne Sewell
On 10/12/2005 20:00:08 measekite <inkys...@oem.com> wrote:
> Frank wrote:
>> Jon wrote:
>>> measekite wrote:
>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>> Wayne Sewell wrote:
>>>>>>> *D**A BULLSHIT XCHANGE*
>>>>>>> --------------060306040308030901020600--
>>>> AND SHIT TOO
>> Good idea. Everyone should kill file my stupid ass then I can only talk
>> to me. Frank
In all my years on usenet, I think this is the first time I have ever seen
someone edit text quoted from another poster. That's low, even for usenet. Of
course, I don't read anything but comp.os.vms. It may be more common in the
anarchy of the alt groups.
original text:
Davy
quote="Arthur Entlich"]Yellow tends to run out first on the tri, by a
small amount. Yellow tends to run out first on the tri, by a small
amount. [/quote:5015775afd]
Righto, thanks Art.
Frank
behavior. He changes others postings and pretends like nobody notices
that he's done it. To call this guy a jerk and a loser would be
complimenting him. He obviously has some really bad human relationship
problems. But in todays world he is able to openly vent his hostilities
and hide behind the cloak of the Internet. That's the mark of a real
coward.
Problem is, his disruptive behavior adds nothing to this ng other than
chaos.
Kill file works great. When I click on the ng is see maybe 50 messages.
Then it changes to 37 and I know that 13 messages from him have been
deleted. Great! Then the only way I ever see his sorry ass is when
somebody else has responded to his insanity.
Frank
measekite
Frank wrote:
> that he's done it. To call me a jerk and a loser would be
> complimenting me. I obviously have some really bad human relationship
> problems. But in todays world I am able to openly vent my hostilities
> and hide behind the cloak of the Internet. That's the mark of a real
> coward.
> Problem is, my disruptive behavior adds nothing to this ng other than
> chaos.
> Kill file does works great. I always find a way to answer and then lie
> about it. When I click on the ng is see maybe 50 messages. Then it
> changes to 37 and I know that 13 messages from him have been deleted
> but I manage to see them indirectly and look forward to answering
> them. Great! Then the only way I ever see his sorry ass is when
> somebody else has responded to his insanity. I just said that.
> Frank
TALKING TO YOURSELF AGAIN?
Davy
> they recirculate the ink uses for purges back into the supply.
They just gotta keep all the ink colours well and truely seperated to
do this.
Davy
Marky
"Davy" <dav...@blueyonder.co-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:%F53f.152588$nF6....@fe04.news.easynews.com...
> > Davywrote:
> [quote:9ef5402e41="Davy"][quote:9ef5402e41]quote
> > This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
> warranty
> > claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.
> >
> >
> They don't wanna know if an exhanged printer goes the same way as the
> first one - OEM inks was used on both printers.
>
> And they told me the guarantee is not transfered to the exchanged one,
> in other words if the exchanged one broke down that was it.
That is nonsense...at least in NA...if we exhanged a printer during the
warranty they unit sent out gets the remainder of the one year warranty...
Did you do something to make these people want to put you through that?
Unless the UK warranty is worded differently than NA, I'd say you got
"special treatment"...and that would explain why you're so vile towards
Epson...
measekite
Marky IN DA BUSINESS wrote:
Davy
quote="Marky"
> That is nonsense...at least in NA...if we exhanged a printer during
the
> warranty they unit sent out gets the remainder of the one year
warranty...
Sorry, stand by my guns here.
The printer went faulty I was given a exchanged unit in a brown box
with Epson security labels minus the inks, that would be a factory
referbished unit as I seem to understand from this NG.
When the replacement went faulty with OEM inks, I telephoned Epson UK
and they told me that the gaurantee is not transferable and that
there was no gaurantee on the replacement....!
At the time I ought to have gone straight to trading standards...!
They would not give me a reference number so that I could take it to
the local Epson Agent - This is fact not fiction Marky.
At the time I wanted to complain above and beyond Epson UK, they would
or could not provide any contact details to do this.
I repeat-:
The gaurantee on the original printer could not be transfered over to
the replacement printer, nor would they give a warrenty on it...!
I was lumbered with crap printers from a crap company.
Davy
Dr. Dweeb
Interestingly, I have a Sony Mp3 player that died after 4 months. Sony
fixed it (at least I got the same unit back in working order), but the
warranty is now 3 months on repairs.
Wait - after 3 months, the thing is still just 7 months old. What happenned
to the 2 year warranty that is required in the EU for consumer items - he
asks rhetorically ????
It seem that perhaps this is SOP for companies generally. ?
Dweeb.
> Davy
Davy
> Interestingly, I have a Sony Mp3 player that died after 4 months.
Sony
> fixed it (at least I got the same unit back in working order), but
the
> warranty is now 3 months on repairs.
>
> Wait - after 3 months, the thing is still just 7 months old.
>
Glad someone can see my POV
But Sony of all people I am surprised, if this is a 'Sony Service
Centre' I would check with Sony HQ..! The item should be covered by
Sony warrenty and not the Service Centre's which could be an entirely
different company from Sony.
Like I was suprised with Epson.... a company you can not call 'good'.
Davy
Dr. Dweeb
>> quote="Dr. Dweeb
>> Interestingly, I have a Sony Mp3 player that died after 4 months.
>> Sony fixed it (at least I got the same unit back in working order),
>> but the warranty is now 3 months on repairs.
>>
>> Wait - after 3 months, the thing is still just 7 months old.
>>
>> It seem that perhaps this is SOP for companies generally. ?
>
>
> Glad someone can see my POV
>
> But Sony of all people I am surprised, if this is a 'Sony Service
> Centre' I would check with Sony HQ..! The item should be covered by
> Sony warrenty and not the Service Centre's which could be an entirely
> different company from Sony.
>
Unknown. It was Sony in Holland who fixed it. The Dixons guy said it was 3
mth warranty on repairs. I hope it keeps going forever and I never need to
find out the real story :-)
Dweeb
zakezuke
My experence with them wasn't great, but it wasn't all that bad either.
I got my r200 replaced but I had to go through a 3rd party service
center. Took a week for them to decide to get me another one, but
that's not epson's fault. I got a referb from Epson through the
service center. What what I was told the warranty period did not
change. As in I bought my Printer late december and it'll be covered
till late December. IIRC the refer carries a warranty of 30days... as
in if my printer fails in december and I get a replacement, the
warranty is good till january. But needless to say I'd have a hard
time considering a base model epson again, but to be fair printer
quality has gone down the tubes.
But there have got to be resources open to you, like your region's
equilivent to small claims court. It's well documented the warranty
period and if they are not honoring it, well file a claim.
Davy
need to
> find out the real story :-)
>
>
Well Dixons, I think they use Mastercare here in the UK
Davy
Davy
> time considering a base model epson again, but to be fair printer
> quality has gone down the tubes.
>
I take it that means the 'nozzles'..!
I am not complaining about the print quality but the 'reliability' and
the ink wastage due to clogging etc.
Well, the Canon I was ever so doubtful because I thought finer nozzles
= more clogs - how wrong I was,..! I'd had a belly full with the
Epson - I would understand if I had been using non OEM inks I would
not have argued.
The first one clogged on the 2nd day, the replacement sometime later
clogged on the 4th day of replacement....! The Canon well over 4
months now has NEVER clogged nor wanted a manual nozzle clean and its
a far more economical printer than the Epson, at least with the Canon
I can print and forget, I don't have to check each print like I did
with the Epson, even printing a text doc. could not be reliable.
I would have tried filing a claim IF they had returned the documents
which THEY conveniently lost....!
Davy
Marky
"Davy" <dav...@blueyonder.co-dot-uk.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
That is strange, but I guess things really are different outside of NA...I
know for a fact though that a one year warranty here means one year...
You should have taken them up on that one year thingy...I definitely would
have...
zakezuke
> which THEY conveniently lost....!
Always make a copy first. Offer them the copy, if they don't take it
offer the original. Still there has to be some record that you
purchaced it. Bank card, check, that sort of thing. Mailorder is most
dandy as you can access your order history, and print off a new copy on
demand, in fact the folks I bought my canon from don't give paper
rescripts at all.
I have to admit, I did prefer the canon return policy to the epson one.
I was given the choice to take it to an authorized repair center or
get an advanced replacement. No paperwork required. The only thing I
didn't get from canon was free ink like I did with the Epson, nor did I
get a head with my replacement.
I feel for you... I consider my r200 to be a somewhat wasted
investment. While under warranty for a year... I don't see it lasting
beyond a year. But given the cost of the printer was $100 and the ink
costs $70 in all fairness I only lost $30. And that $30 got me a cd
tray which I was able to trim to canon specifications.