Dot matrix printer needed - recommendations?

[R.J. Hemme]

In setting up an accounting system for a local business, I need to select a
printer. Since this business is a franchise, they NEED to print on
triplicate, and thus I need a dot matrix printer. This is something I know
absolutely nothing about.

This development brings a lot of questions to mind, and I'd be grateful for
any answers you can provide.

Are new dot matrix printers that different from old ones? I recently picked
up a Panasonic Quiet KX-P2123 24-pin printer from someone who didn't want it
anymore. People can't seem to get rid of them cheap enough on eBay. Why
isn't this a printer you'd want to use?

Would I be better off buying a newer used one?

Are there certain features that are necessary in an office printer? The
printer needs to print on triplicate most of the time but also be able to
print on plain paper for letters.
Alternatively, it can print only the triplicate and a cheap inkjet can do
the rest.

I'd also like recommendations on a printer model to get. Budget is $400. Of
course, cheaper is better, but I think I'm missing some important factor why
I need a new one. Any input is appreciated!

R.J. Hemme

[GH]

R.J. ,

As for the Panasonic Quiet KX-P2123. The reason is most likely that inkjets are
so cheap buy ( though not always to use ), that dot matrix printers are almost
given away.
But for impact printing like you need, there is not much else to use.
Since you need triplicate form prints... I'd find all the Panasonic Quiet
KX-P2123 or other dotmatrix printers you can . Ribbons are real cheap.

GH

[Andrew Rossmann]

[This followup was posted to comp.periphs.printers and a copy was sent to
the cited author.]

In article <afb7uh$4ie$1...@iac5.navix.net>, Vent...@alltel.net says...

For multi-print printing, you may want to stick with a 9-pin printer.
The larger pins work better through the multiple sheets of paper. 24-pin
printers usually need to be set to a multi-pass mode (such as bold or
enhanced text) to get them to print clearly all the way through.

--
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http://home.att.net/~andyross

[Gordon R. Frey]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:11:55 -0400, "R.J. Hemme" <Vent...@alltel.net>
wrote:

>In setting up an accounting system for a local business, I need to select a
>printer. Since this business is a franchise, they NEED to print on
>triplicate, and thus I need a dot matrix printer. This is something I know
>absolutely nothing about.
>
>This development brings a lot of questions to mind, and I'd be grateful for
>any answers you can provide.

Just buy a 9 pin dot matrix, you only chooses that I seen any more are
the OKdata 320 or there may be some Lexmark printer but there large
and costly.

Gordon

[Michael Salem]

R.J. Hemme wrote:

> In setting up an accounting system for a local business, I need to select a
> printer. Since this business is a franchise, they NEED to print on
> triplicate, and thus I need a dot matrix printer.
>

> Panasonic Quiet KX-P2123 24-pin printer

> Why isn't this a printer you'd want to use?

It's OK

> Would I be better off buying a newer used one?

> Are there certain features that are necessary in an office printer? The
> printer needs to print on triplicate most of the time but also be able to
> print on plain paper for letters.
> Alternatively, it can print only the triplicate and a cheap inkjet can do
> the rest.

I would use a second-hand laser printer. Dot matrix print doesn't look
acceptably good by today's standards; inkjet is expensive to run and
runs if wet, but is best if you need colour.

Possible features: some printers let you tear off a single sheet of
output; otherwise you have to wait for the following page to print
before you can remove the page. Important if printing single invoices
to give to clients there and then.

Some printers have "paper parking" so you can print single sheets
without unloading multipart paper.

A sheet feeder doesn't seem useful to you unless you really want to
do letters.

I generally prefer to use a printer that has either Epson or IBM
Proprinter emulation (most do), which makes it easier to replace with
a different printer later. Try to avoid using features specific to a
particular printer.

HTH,
--
Michael Salem

[jatkin02]

RJ:

For dot matrix impact printers, I trust (really trust) the venerable Okidata
Microline series. Been around forever and are nearly bombproof. Very large
install base as well.

The ML 320T gives you a standard carriage. CDW.com lists them at $316.
Shop around.

Ribbons run $10.45 or thereabouts.

Good luck...

JA

"R.J. Hemme" <Vent...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:afb7uh$4ie$1...@iac5.navix.net...

[me]

You need a printer than not only will print on triplicate, but that wont jam the paper!

Remember that you will be feeding continuous paper from a box, and that

every paper jam means forms wasted, reloading paper, reprinting... in a business

this is unacceptable. You need a professional printer.

 

 Okidata has some real nice ones. The head will adjust automatically to the paper

 number of copies, and has a nice traction mechanism. They have both wide and

 narrow carriages and can be found used at good prices. But expect to pay much

 more than for an inkjet... If your customer is going to print A LOT, and I mean A

 LOT A LOT, then you need a fast matricial printer. This printers will cost you much

 more, but trust me, they are worth every dollar you put on them. There is nothing

 more frustrating than a matricial printer jamming every few pages... AGHHHHHH!!!

 and they do on the worst time too. And noise is a consideration too. They scream

 

Paper handling is something you must look at too if you plan on using different forms.

Most of the quality printers will have at least 2 paper sources, besides manual, and

 they will retract one source and pull the other without you getting your hands on the

 printer. But the cheaper you go, the more problems you will have. Don´t go cheaper

on matricials.

 

So, options... Epson has a bunch of models... LQ 570+, LQ 870's, LQ 10XX (wide),

all this on 24 pins, model LX's are 9, and the super fast DFX' s series.

 

Okidata has the Microline series, with the 320 Turbo (narrow) and 321 Turbo (wide).

 

I never considered any other brands on matricials, beside the ones I told you. And

my experience with epsons is that they jam the paper... Not the DFX-s.

 

9 or 24 pins: 9 pin printers are FASTER than 24. 24 will print with more quality, but

to achieve so they also go slower. For form printing normally you don't care about

quality, as far as it's readable. If you need quality, go the laser way. Just print 3 copies.

It's better to have a REAL GOOD 9 pin, than to have a cheap 24.

 

Okidata is fine for small volumes of work. Prints fast enough to make a report at the

end of the day, but they are not to print all day long. Not fast enough (and they are very

fast, just not enough if you need your paper for yesterday) It all depends on how much

you gonna print. Check my pages below and compare specs.

 

Epson DFX's... now this is another history. They don't pull paper, they spit it. You cannot

see the head move, so fast it goes. Designed for very heavy work loads, will print all day

long. And much quieter than any of the others!

 

And now, some advertising... As you have seen, I know a bit on matricials. In fact, we

sell/refurbish laptops and printers on my company, and I like to mess with all kind of

artifacts, to see how they perform.

 

We have used Epson LQ 570's ,LQ 870's, several of the wide carriage ones too.

And my dream is 2 DFX-8000 that I tested two weeks ago... damm! I called the people

in shipping, just to show them what form printing really was. They left crying, back to their

Epson 870 and Okidata 320T...

 

Without knowing exactly what do you want to print, and how much, I cannot recommend you

a particular printer. But don't buy a cheap one. No LX300 or similar, you will regret every

dollar saved with every paper jam, every lost minute...

 

Hey, if it's a big bussines, go big. That DFX-8000 sells normally over $1200. The Okidata's

sell new over $400. The small epsons are cheaper, but not so robust.

 

I have a page about the DFX-8000, click here. Is full of pictures and descriptions.

 

And another one about the OKI 321Turbo. That's the wide carriage version, but besides

width, all specs shall be the same as the 320T.

 

I haven´t made web pages for the other printers, but I will as I get a bit more free on time.

 

Just if you are interested, we are selling the DFX 8000 for $600, and we have a few Oki 320T

(narrow) at $325. Both models are refurbished by us, and have been deeply tested.

 

I just don't have here prices for all other Epson models, but we do have several ones.

 

My 1c

 

 

Juan Salvador Fernandez - SVC Tech Department Manager

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Resellers welcome.

"R.J. Hemme" <Vent...@alltel.net> wrote in message news:afb7uh$4ie$1...@iac5.navix.net...

[R.J. Hemme]

me wrote:

Thanks for all the information! I feel I'm a lot more informed now, and I'm
close to making a decision. Your points about jamming are very good. The
people who are going to be using this printer shouldn't have to worry about
such things.

If I give you the rest of the information, do you think you could help me
out with specific models that are good for the purpose the printer will be
used for?

The business will be printing between 15 and 25 pre-printed triplicate forms
a day with this printer, meaning the forms have a header (and fields, I
presume) and the printer just needs to fill them out with names and numbers.
Some people have told me to "think ahead" and get something that would be
good for 100s of forms a day, but I really don't see them needing to print
over 40 a day even years in the future. This printer will only need to print
the forms, so multiple paper sources aren't necessary.

Given your descriptions, I take it Okidata is the way to go. Is the whole
Microline series good, or just the models you've recommended? I consider the
workload they'll be printing pretty low, although I don't have much to
compare it to. Are all the printers about as economical with ribbons, or is
that an important consideration too?

Speed isn't really necessary (although 3 minutes per form would be
unacceptable). The printer just needs to reliably print the forms without
jamming.

I'm not sure I can convince these people that they need to spend $325 on a
form printer. I know you'd like me to buy from you (and believe me, I'd like
to, after all the great help you've given me) but do you think it's possible
to do better, given the low requirements, for a decent printer?

Thank you for all the time and effort you've put into helping me.

R.J. Hemme

[Michael Salem]

R.J. Hemme wrote:

> The business will be printing between 15 and 25 pre-printed triplicate forms
> a day with this printer, meaning the forms have a header (and fields, I
> presume) and the printer just needs to fill them out with names and numbers.
> Some people have told me to "think ahead" and get something that would be
> good for 100s of forms a day, but I really don't see them needing to print
> over 40 a day even years in the future. This printer will only need to print
> the forms, so multiple paper sources aren't necessary.

While the advice given here has been good, for your purposes just
about anything will do; this is not a major strategic decision. A
light-duty 24-pin home printer (I am deliberately choosing the most
unsuitable printer, not specifically recommending this!) that someone
is going to throw away will probably be quite satisfactory. One point
I don't remember being mentioned (which may say more about my memory
than this thread) is noise; you might want to get a "quiet" dot
matrix printer, or use an acoustic hood (expensive new, but people
are throwing them away all the time). Perhaps the main thing is to
get a printer with standard emulation; the de-facto standards are
Epson (maybe the FX86 or similar model, but they're much of a
muchness) or IBM Proprinter. If the printer has any fancy founts or
functions, don't use them. If you suddenly need to print hundreds of
invoices a day, or the printer jams a lot, or breaks, throw it away,
buy (or scrounge) another, and just plug it in.

One company I know had a bank of four printers doing exactly what you
are asking about; one printer per form was better than swapping
paper. The printers were Panasonic "quiet" printers (not quiet as a
laser, ink, or thermal printer). Over a few years, one failed and was
replaced with a different model.

Another had a similar printer which no longer coped with an
increasing workload; it was replaced (with no software or driver
change) by a Brother M-4318 in an acoustic hood which was cheaper
than other fast heavy-duty DMPs and worked without a flaw for many
years, and still does.

If you need to print and deliver single invoices, the one function
you want to look out for is the ability to tear off a sheet without
having to wait for the next one to be printed.

Some makes and models are better than others. I'm more than happy
with Oki, which have a reputation as the most work-oriented DMPs.
I've found Panasonics to be reliable (I used to buy quantities of the
early low-end KX-P1080 when they were introduced. Several machines in
hte first batch had a problem -- I don't remember what. We contacted
Panasonic; next day we had 3 people from local head office, plus an
expert from Japan who happened to be in the country, in our office).
The heavy-duty Brother M-4318 has been excellent.

> Are all the printers about as economical with ribbons, or is
> that an important consideration too?

Ribbons are generally cheap (count the cost per million characters,
not per ribbon). If you really want to save, you can buy refill
ribbons and load them into the cartridges (if you're not careful this
like buying bulk toothpaste and refilling the tube), and you can
re-ink ribbons. But it's always MUCH cheaper than inkjet or laser.

> Speed isn't really necessary (although 3 minutes per form would be
> unacceptable).

If you're using a graphical operating system (such as Microsoft
Windows), be quite sure to use a printer fount, not a scalable
TrueType fount, for speed and print quality. In fact, if you can find
a printer driver which doesn't support graphics in any form and which
is compatible with your printer, use it. I think there's a
non-graphics Epson MX-80 driver. At the least excuse Windows will
decide that you need to print 10.5 cpi (characters per inch, the DMP
equivalent of point size) instead of 10 cpi, and replace the
perfectly good built-in fount with slow, smeary, text generated in
graphics mode. I once printed a fax (in graphics node, of course) on
a Panasonic KX-P1180, a DMP of adequate speed and print quality; it
took 12 minutes.

> I'm not sure I can convince these people that they need to spend $325 on a
> form printer. I know you'd like me to buy from you (and believe me, I'd like
> to, after all the great help you've given me) but do you think it's possible
> to do better, given the low requirements, for a decent printer?

Find whoever will pay you most to haul one away. I'm barely joking
here; lots of perfectly good printers are thrown away.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but not all that much.

HTH,
--
Michael Salem

[G Amik]

One important point to consider is how often you want to replace the
cartridge or the ribbon in the cartridge (messy).

Some printers, all the Panasonics included, have a cartridge that
rides on the print head carriage so the cartridges are small and the
ribbon is short, needing frequent replacements.

Other printers such as the Epsons and the Citizens have ribbon
cartridges that span the width of the printer and are stationary.
These cartridges can hold a lot of ribbon and have ribbon lengths of
10 metres or more. Also, it is easier to change just the ribbon than
for the Panasonics.

At one of our offices, we had to get rid of a 24-pin Panasonic and
replace it with a 24-pin Citizen because the staff complained of
having to change the ribbon cartridge every couple of days.

HTH,

G. Amik

[Jeff Jonas]

>| You need a printer than not only will print on triplicate, but that wont
jam the paper!
>| Remember that you will be feeding continuous paper from a box, and that
>| every paper jam means forms wasted, reloading paper, reprinting... in a
business
>| this is unacceptable.

Ummm, I think you're exaggerating. A lot.
I used to print checks from fanfold tractor-feed continuous forms.
I rarely had a jam, and the few times there were,
I VOIDED the checks and handed them to the comptroller.

Unless the forms have pre-printed serial numbers, jams were not critical
and only 1-3 pages were lost at a jam.

Plain paper printers jam a lot too.
They can potentially jam for any and every page
whereas continuous forms jam only if the paper path is altered.

I've used refrigerator-sized line printers and table-top ones too.
Unless the person's using a huge high speed printer,
this is all useless speculation.

Folks using laser printers simply print the number of copies needed.
No more multi part forms.
(and I never enjoyed separating the forms, and my time ain't so cheap no more).
But they have a nasty failure mode: they totally STOP when the toner's out
whereas ribbons merely get lighter and ligher (and can be re-inked).

>The business will be printing between 15 and 25 pre-printed triplicate forms
>a day with this printer

Geez, my old 24 pin Epson would handle that gracefully.

If you're worried about jams, a printer that takes the paper from the bottom
would be better than a rear loading one,
but that requires a table with the slot thru the middle.
Few places bother selling those anymore,
but used office furniture stores may be help!

For ongoing costs, check the price of the ribbons!
Staples and such no longer bother selling them!
--
Jeffrey Jonas
jeffj@panix(dot)com
The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide