HP 15 and 45 ink cartridge
Domenic Ielo
cartridge with a 45. The volume is much greater in the 45 and they seem to
be the same size. I ask this as the 45 is cheaper. I had an old Canon
Bubble Jet that could use larger cartridges from other Canon printers.
Thanks in advance for any information
Big Al
Domenic Ielo wrote:
Hi,
I am quite sure that you can sub an HP 15 for a 45 but not vice versa.
So, the answer to your question is, no.
The physical configuration of these two cartridges is identical. Can't
you buy the higher capacity 15 (for a gazillion dollars!)?
Why don't you consider refilling to save money and then you can refill
to full capacity as well. We now have a bottom fill tool that refills
directly thru the printhead and makes refilling this cartridge a snap.
Here's a picture of the tool in use:
http://www.ink-refills.com/bottom_pop.htm
Cheers & Happy Printing,
Al
All HP printer supplies and support here:
http://www.ink-refills.com/hp.htm
Andrew Rossmann
the cited author.]
In article <2kC58.29289$f53.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>,
ie...@sympatico.ca says...
> I'm not sure if this is possible, but could you substitute an HP 15 ink
> cartridge with a 45. The volume is much greater in the 45 and they seem to
> be the same size. I ask this as the 45 is cheaper. I had an old Canon
> Bubble Jet that could use larger cartridges from other Canon printers.
If you have a printer that requires the #15 cartridge (81x, 84x, 916,
920, 940), then you are out of luck. They will not accept the #45 due to
some slight electical difference. Somebody figured a way to sort-of make
them work by blocking one of the contacts, but it also causes some nozzles
to be disabled.
If you don't mind refilling, you can do that. I think the #15 can hold
nearly as much, if not the same, as the #45 physically.
The same issues affect the #17 (low-capacity version of #23.)
--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
Markus Wandel
Andrew Rossmann <andyross@no_junk.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>[This followup was posted to comp.periphs.printers and a copy was sent to
>the cited author.]
>
>In article <2kC58.29289$f53.1...@news20.bellglobal.com>,
>ie...@sympatico.ca says...
>> I'm not sure if this is possible, but could you substitute an HP 15 ink
>> cartridge with a 45. The volume is much greater in the 45 and they seem to
>> be the same size. I ask this as the 45 is cheaper. I had an old Canon
>> Bubble Jet that could use larger cartridges from other Canon printers.
>
> If you have a printer that requires the #15 cartridge (81x, 84x, 916,
>920, 940), then you are out of luck. They will not accept the #45 due to
>some slight electical difference. Somebody figured a way to sort-of make
>them work by blocking one of the contacts, but it also causes some nozzles
>to be disabled.
US patents 6,332,677 and 6,325,483 go into great detail about the 600dpi
1/2" cartridge (i.e. the #45) and a cartridge ID system, respectively.
It appears that the same 22 pins that are used to select banks of 14 ink
nozzles, are also used to select a 22-bit ID string that is read out through
a single "sense" pin. By taping over certain address pins, it is possible
to spoof part of the ID string, but also disable 14 ink jets.
I did not investigate in great detail, but I believe (I'd love to be proved
wrong) that there is no way to spoof a ripoff printer into fully using the
#45 by just taping over contacts. I think it takes active circuitry to
emulate the 22-bit ID string that the printer expects. An empty cartridge
would provide the necessary circuitry, and could (in theory) be installed
"under the hood" and wired into the printer's circuitry. However this involves
extensive tinkering and I'd probably wreck my printer before I got it working.
In practice, you just watch your local buy/sell newsgroup. The one here in
town yielded me an 850C printer (which can take the #45) for $5 (I had to
clean it, it was full of crud from leaky refilled cartridges, but it works
fine) and I recently saw an 812C go for $50. The 812C requires the #15
cartridge, but is still a heck of a lot better than my 842C, which also
requires the #17 colour cartridge which is the biggest ripoff of all.
I wrote a rant on my web page when I found all this out (before I had found
the patent documents):
http://www.geocities.com/mwandel98/printer_ripoff.html
I also have some pictures I took of a disassembled #45 cartridge on my own
server machine...
http://wandel.dyndns.org/hp45/
Unfortunately I don't have the equipment to take good microphotos of the
(really quite marvellous) print head IC. The patent tells all you want to
know about it though (27 drawing sheets).
Markus
--
Remove "nospam." from email address to make it valid.
Charles Johnston
---------------------
Markus said....
>I had to clean it, it was full of crud from leaky refilled cartridges,
So save a few precious $$$ (by refilling) and end up with a messy
crud-filled printer....oh yeah..I want that!
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
Markus Wandel
Charles Johnston <ct...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>I had to clean it, it was full of crud from leaky refilled cartridges,
>--------------------
>So save a few precious $$$ (by refilling) and end up with a messy
>crud-filled printer....oh yeah..I want that!
To each their own opinion. Having taken apart a #45 cartridge and
gotten a pretty good idea how it works, I'd say if you're not capable
of cleaning up a messy crud-filled printer, you probably shouldn't
try to refill cartridges either. Neither thing is easy. Anyway
a properly refilled cartridge wouldn't leak like that.
The #45 has a tricky spring arrangement inside that causes a slight
negative pressure (i.e. suction) at the print head. If refilled and
not sealed absolutely airtight, this suction will not be there, and
there will be nothing to prevent the ink from leaking out gradually.
Also since the cartridge is filled from the bottom, if the fill opening
is not airtight the ink will leak out there as well.
I have my doubts about refilling too, and I think I can afford the price
of full #45 cartridges. It's just paying as much or slightly more for
half-full #15 cartridges that really gets my steam up.
Charles Johnston
too feel there is too much involved in refilling these tricky /
high-tech carts for the paltry bit of $$$ I might save.
Moreover to answer those that have high-capacity printing needs..they
might be advised to visit Kinko's once-in-a-while and spare their inkjet
all the wear-and-tear.....
Home printers are designed for low volume typical home use....if one
does - that much - home printing that they can save hundreds and
hundreds of $$$ over time by refilling then I submit they can save even
more by farming out the work....
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Markus Wandel" <mar...@nospam.pinetree.org> wrote in message
news:a37g6t$t0k$1...@asterix.localdomain...
DaMAN
myself included.
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c57...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Charles Johnston
Yes there might be many happy #45 refillers right in my own
neighborhood. I have never attempted to refill any carts. From what I
have learned in just the past week in this thread it can be a tricky
thing to do and can yield one a messy crudded-up printer. That coupled
with my own morals and ethics make any cart refilling
out-of-the-question.....
If you are happy ..I am happy but don't expect me to join you.....
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"DaMAN" <hipb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a37p4j$163rti$1...@ID-123582.news.dfncis.de...
Tom Krishan
"Markus Wandel" <mar...@nospam.pinetree.org> wrote in message
news:a37g6t$t0k$1...@asterix.localdomain...
> I have my doubts about refilling too, and I think I can afford the price
> of full #45 cartridges. It's just paying as much or slightly more for
> half-full #15 cartridges that really gets my steam up.
After refilling the first one or two, it becomes quite easy. My technique
is to refill from the bottom fill hole and to use a stainless steel set
screw to seal the hole. I then use the Snap & Fill to remove any air in the
cartridge by pulling a vacuum while the cartridge is inverted. This also
helps equilibrate the pressures in the bladder so that it will not drip. I
also place a bit of aluminum duct tape ove the refill hole and set screw for
extra measure. A refill only takes a few minutes.
The cartridges work great with a quality ink and the cost goes per cartridge
use goes from $25 to about $3. The HP #15s can be filled to the full #45
capacity; one just needs to ignore the empty cartridge warnings.
One comment I will make is that I have not found a refill ink from any
vendor that is quite as black as the original HP ink. This is not an issue
on photo printing on photo paper as the black cartridge is not used.
Tom
Neal
refilling of cartridges but I can't come up with anything. Perhaps HP has a
ethics problem when they charge $30 for a cartridge. 40% of HPs income is
derived from selling cartridges. They will use every means available to
persuade consumers that refilling is wrong. Is this one of them?
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c576eb8$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Tom Krishan
> US patents 6,332,677 and 6,325,483 go into great detail about the 600dpi
> 1/2" cartridge (i.e. the #45) and a cartridge ID system, respectively.
> It appears that the same 22 pins that are used to select banks of 14 ink
> nozzles, are also used to select a 22-bit ID string that is read out
through
> a single "sense" pin. By taping over certain address pins, it is possible
> to spoof part of the ID string, but also disable 14 ink jets.
Thanks for the research and posting these patent numbers. I have ordered my
copies from http://www.uspto.gov and look forward to reading them.
Tom
Tom Krishan
> That coupled with my own morals and ethics make any cart refilling
> out-of-the-question.....
What is morally or ethically wrong with refilling inkjet cartridges?
Tom
Neal
refilling of cartridges but I can't come up with anything. Perhaps HP has a
ethics problem when they charge $30 for a cartridge. 40% of HPs income is
derived from selling cartridges. They will use every means available to
persuade consumers that refilling is wrong. Is this one of them?
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c576eb8$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Markus Wandel
Tom Krishan <tkri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the research and posting these patent numbers. I have ordered my
>copies from http://www.uspto.gov and look forward to reading them.
Hmmm. I got my copies for free. When you view the text portion of the
patent, there is an "Images" button at the top. Click that, and, at least
with a browser that can display TIFF files inline, you can then page through
the 300dpi scans of the pages.
On my Linux setup, the plugin didn't work (I only saw the upper left corner
of the pages, with no way to scroll or zoom them) but the whole TIFF file
ended up in the browser's cache. So I just paged through, collected all the
TIFF files from the cache directory, and printed them using tiff2ps.
Looks perfect.
Big Al
or Epson sending their undercover agents to "take me out". Now I find
out that refilling (and worse yet) selling those products is going to
send me to Hell!
Charles, I wish you had told me sooner. Since you seem to be the only
one with the knowledge, I think it is your responsibility - your duty
even - to inform all refillers. How else will we all know we are heading
for damnation? We deserve a chance... don't we?
Cheers & Happy Printing (but no refilling),
Al
http://www.netwares.com
Pro5
sell you printers for £100 that cost £30 to make and then CARTIDGES with as
little ink in as possible for £30 a set when they cost no more than £5 a set
to make! -
I used to refill, I dont now cos my printers knackered - was that dodgy ink
to blame? Nah it was a stupid canon bjc4100!
Paul
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-------------------------------------------------------
WWW.SPACEHOTEL.FREEUK.COM
-------------------------------------------------------
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Neal
of those disposable salt shakers. I had a feeling at that time it was
morally and ethically wrong but I went ahead and did it anyway. Am I in
trouble?
"Big Al" <A...@netwares.com> wrote in message
news:3C5813C6...@netwares.com...
Charles Johnston
Thx for the chuckles...I am doing my level-best as a one man crusader
to change the hearts and minds of all refillers and to persuade them to
turn from a life of crime and damnation to the everlasting bliss that is
known as " full retail price "
Happy printing ......
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Big Al" <A...@netwares.com> wrote in message
news:3C5813C6...@netwares.com...
Charles Johnston
The ethics and morality issue as concerns refilling is that the HP
carts are not designed nor meant to be refilled.
Therefore those that devise ways to do so are circumventing the intended
use of the product.
Moreover the refillers then use a greed-based justification scheme to
validate their devious ways and at the same time criticize HP for
selling factory-fresh, genuine, and properly-filled carts for what the
market will bear.
It is the age-old principle so set in the heart of mankind to "get
something for nothing". You and all the refillers like you simply
demonstrate your susceptibility to this well-known axiom.
BTW I have a work-at-home plan that earns you $46,123 / wk. Sound
good?
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Neal" <nealu...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u5ftnsi...@corp.supernews.com...
jbuch
I have a "religious" friend that tells me I am going to hell.
For refilling.
When my stomach is empty of beer, I sometimes refill it.
Seems as if that will send me to hell.
Jim
--
-----------------------------------------------
A keepsake quality gift for young girls,
A personalized adventure book:
FREE__ Screensavers and Software to stretch the budget this Christmas.
http://www.YourAliceBook.com/WhatsHere/FreeSoftware.htm
Neal
The problem here is your reference to ethics and morality. I respect your
opinion that it is not a good idea to fill cartridges. This has nothing to
do with ethics and morality. Perhaps you need to define these terms because
others and myself don’t seem to share your definitions of these terms. Just
because the cartridges are not “meant to be refilled” does not mean they can
’t be refilled or there is anything wrong in doing so. Read up on
recycling. You will be amazed at how people have helped the environment and
saved money at the same time.
I have been a loyal HP user since 1991 when I bought a HP IIIP laser. Up
until last year I only used brand new HP toner. The price went up to $90
and I decided to try a refilled cartridge. I got one for $27 and it has
printed better than the new HP toners I had been using. Even sent the old
one back for refilling. How was I immoral by using a refilled cartridge and
not having an empty take up space in a landfill? Anytime we can recycle, we
are doing the right thing. Saving $63 was an added benefit.
I also have a HP inkjet. I now am starting to try the refill these
cartridges and the results have been very favorable. I believe that HP is
wrong in not recycling these cartridges. When you refer to the greed of
refillers, don’t forget HP. Fifty cents worth of ink for $30 sounds very
greedy to me. But as the saying goes ”There’s a sucker born every minute”
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c581f46$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Charles Johnston
It is self-evident to any honest-hearted and reasonable person that
to manipulate a product in ways other then what was intended and
recommended by the mfr is unethical and immoral. If you fail to
acknowledge that there is nothing anyone can do to help you. Everyday
blatant criminal acts, even including the taking of human life, is
:justified" and "rationalized" so the perpetrators can validate their
unscrupulous activities.
Furthermore you continue, as others do too, to harp on the "HP greed"
bandwagon (to justify your tactics)saying things like $.50 worth of ink
for $30. Neal you and I both know you are paying for a lot of high-tech
savvy in those smart HP carts and not just for the ink alone. Do you
have any idea yourself how to manufacture a working ink cart for your HP
ink jet printer? It takes a helluva lot more than a syringe and a
bottle of cheap ink.
Lastly, just because something "can be done" is not justification for
it's implementation.....you should know better. That kind of "proof"
only convinces grade-schoolers and those with comparable education
levels.
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Neal" <nealu...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u5gcumi...@corp.supernews.com...
Neal
know that I owe more to this planet than I do to HP's bottom line. Sure,
just because something can be done does not justify it being done but you
have still not explained what is so unethical or immoral about refilling.
Has it physically or emotionally hurt someone? If so who? I can only see it
helping the enviorment. Now, you are associating the evil act of refilling
with criminal acts and even the taking of human life. I guess you can't help
me because I sure do not see the connection here. I'm sure HP appreciates
anything you can do to help them in this losing battle. You may even want to
help the drug companies as they fight against generic drugs. Good luck to
you.
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c5836d1$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Charles Johnston
repair consequences of refilling your HP Inkjet cartridges.....
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/printers/support_doc/bpa00113.html
For those that won't click on the link here is an informative snippet...
< snip >
CAUTION: Damage resulting from the modification or refilling of HP
cartridges is specifically excluded from coverage in HP printer
warranties.
< snip >
So ...to save few miserable $$$ I am going to risk my printers
longevity and warranty repair options...
Oh Yeah..where do I sign up for this great cartridge refilling
experience? NOT!
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Neal" <nealu...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u5gfv9e...@corp.supernews.com...
Gary Baird
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Hello Neal,
> It is self-evident to any honest-hearted and reasonable person that
> to manipulate a product in ways other then what was intended and
> recommended by the mfr is unethical and immoral.
Ever use a screwdriver for anything other than driving screws?? Maybe open a paint can or pry something open? If so you must be unethical and/or immoral when judged by your own standards.
You buy a product and it is yours to do with as you wish. You can smash it with a hammer, or use it as a hammer. If using it in a way not intended by the manufacturer voids its warranty, so be it. It's the purchaser's choice. If using a product in a way not intended by the manufacturer results in an injury to the purchaser, the blame lies with the purchaser (or at least should be). We are not talking about software licensing where you do not really "own" the product, in which case your argument may have some validity.
Gary Baird
Charles Johnston
I live by obviously higher ethical and moral standards than you do
sir....
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Gary Baird" <gmb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20020130141813....@hotmail.com...
Tom Krishan
I couldn't get my browser to display the graphics and did not realize they
were probably in the cache.
Thanks for the tip; the PDF copies were $3.00 each. Oh well, the cost of
two cartridge refills wasted.
Tom
Neal
paragraph that stated it is "unethical and immoral" to refill cartridges.
Could you show me were it says this? That is the question here.
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c58...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Dave Johnson
Now I'm sure.
Charles Johnston
Quit playing games.....as you well know I never claimed the HP site
used the terms "unethical" or "immoral".
Really if you need HP or any other third-party to be your moral and
ethical compass in life then refilling carts is the least of your
problems. Personally if I were in your shoes I would get some
professional help. There is counseling and drug therapy available for
your kind of life's dilemma....good luck.
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"Neal" <nealu...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u5gidgp...@corp.supernews.com...
Tom Krishan
> The ethics and morality issue as concerns refilling is that the HP
> carts are not designed nor meant to be refilled.
> Therefore those that devise ways to do so are circumventing the intended
> use of the product.
What makes a manufacturer's intended use of a product a moral imperative?
> Moreover the refillers then use a greed-based justification scheme to
> validate their devious ways and at the same time criticize HP for
> selling factory-fresh, genuine, and properly-filled carts for what the
> market will bear.
>
> It is the age-old principle so set in the heart of mankind to "get
> something for nothing". You and all the refillers like you simply
> demonstrate your susceptibility to this well-known axiom.
Refilling cartridges is not "something for nothing." The supplies cost
money and there is actual work (with some skill) involved in refilling the
cartridges. It takes maybe $3.00 in materials, 5 minutes to refill and
another 5 minutes to clean up (assuming no accidents with the ink). Your
choice is to not refill cartridges; you value your time otherwise. That's
okay. But what I don't understand is your hostility towards those who do
refill cartridges.
> BTW I have a work-at-home plan that earns you $46,123 / wk. Sound
> good?
Is this directed towards people who refill cartridges or people who throw
out perfectly good cartridges instead of reusing them?
Tom
Neal
discussion. You're right Charles, I am unethical and immoral. I'd like to
confess now. I once tore the "do not remove" tag off my mattress.
Neal
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c584e20$1...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Jeff H
*ludicrous argument involving the ethics of refilling*
Please...don't feed the trolls!
I was hanging on and giving Charles the benefit of the doubt...right up to
the point where he claimed moral superiority on the basis of his
anti-refilling stance. No doubt remains.
Jeff H
Jeff H
Jeff H
Model Flyer
and
> gotten a pretty good idea how it works, I'd say if you're not
capable
> of cleaning up a messy crud-filled printer, you probably
shouldn't
> try to refill cartridges either. Neither thing is easy. Anyway
> a properly refilled cartridge wouldn't leak like that.
>
Never came across an 850-870 that was messed up by a leaking
cartridge, however I did get in an 890 that had done 47,000 +
prints and that was an amonia, bath + shower spray job to clean,
however I got it there. The 890 got to 50,000 and out poped the
warning about replacing the service station, don't know what the
quantity is on that printer now but It is good for 100,000.
The dirtiest printer I ever had to service was a DJ-970c, that has
over 37,000 and was so encrusted with dried over spray that it
also got the shower, ammonia treatment. Stripped all but the print
engine and gave it a throrough cleaning. All of the 970's I've had
in were very dirty and needed a real spring clean but I've never
had one as bad as the first.
Gary Baird
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote:
> So say you.....
>
> I live by obviously higher ethical and moral standards than you do
> sir....
>
I see..... What color is the sky on the planet you're from?
Gary Baird
DaMAN
How many refills do you get I am on 5 X 42ml with one now
With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but eventually you
lose 1 bank of nozzles
"Tom Krishan" <tkri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c57f...@news7.fast.net...
>
> "Markus Wandel" <mar...@nospam.pinetree.org> wrote in message
> news:a37g6t$t0k$1...@asterix.localdomain...
>
> > of full #45 cartridges. It's just paying as much or slightly more for
> > half-full #15 cartridges that really gets my steam up.
>
> is to refill from the bottom fill hole and to use a stainless steel set
> screw to seal the hole. I then use the Snap & Fill to remove any air in
the
> cartridge by pulling a vacuum while the cartridge is inverted. This also
> helps equilibrate the pressures in the bladder so that it will not drip.
I
> also place a bit of aluminum duct tape ove the refill hole and set screw
for
> extra measure. A refill only takes a few minutes.
>
> The cartridges work great with a quality ink and the cost goes per
cartridge
> use goes from $25 to about $3. The HP #15s can be filled to the full #45
> capacity; one just needs to ignore the empty cartridge warnings.
>
> One comment I will make is that I have not found a refill ink from any
> vendor that is quite as black as the original HP ink. This is not an
issue
> on photo printing on photo paper as the black cartridge is not used.
>
> Tom
>
>
Charles Johnston
life ( by refilling carts ) but you also get inferior print quality to
boot! Man this some kinda great deal! Everybody needs to know about
this.....
----------------
DaMAN said.....
>With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but
>eventually you lose 1 bank of nozzles
---------------
You guys really slay me......thanks but I really prefer to do my
printing with - all - nozzles firing.....
--
73 / DX
Charles T Johnston
Prescott, Arizona - U.S.A.
cha...@ab7sl.com
AB7SL - Ham Radio Pages
Official W9INN Antennas Page
www.ab7sl.com
"DaMAN" <hipb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3al14$16u095$1...@ID-117683.news.dfncis.de...
DaMAN
> So...not only does one lose HP warranty coverage and shortened printer
> life ( by refilling carts ) but you also get inferior print quality to
> boot! Man this some kinda great deal! Everybody needs to know about
> this.....
>
> ----------------
> DaMAN said.....
> >With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but
> >eventually you lose 1 bank of nozzles
> ---------------
>
This occured after the 5th refill 2 nozzles out of 300 will not be
noticeable even a brand new #45 could be down on 1-2 nozzles.
And yes you can match the OEM ink wil refill ink.
Model Flyer
> Once again you have completely bypassed the recycling issue. I
think and
> know that I owe more to this planet than I do to HP's bottom
line. Sure,
> just because something can be done does not justify it being
done but you
> have still not explained what is so unethical or immoral about
refilling.
> Has it physically or emotionally hurt someone? If so who? I can
only see it
> helping the enviorment. Now, you are associating the evil act
of refilling
> with criminal acts and even the taking of human life. I guess
you can't help
> me because I sure do not see the connection here. I'm sure HP
appreciates
> anything you can do to help them in this losing battle. You may
even want to
> help the drug companies as they fight against generic drugs.
Good luck to
> you.
> Neal
>
He's a troll, forget him.
--
I wonder do people become as Intelligent as their computers.
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe,
jonath...@bigfoot.com,
printe...@eirom.net
>
>
Model Flyer
> Well, since you refuse to answer the question, I think I'll drop
out of this
> discussion. You're right Charles, I am unethical and immoral.
I'd like to
> confess now. I once tore the "do not remove" tag off my
mattress.
> Neal
>
Lol, this is the stupidest thread I have read to date.:-) the only
thing that's unethical is that the message has now grown to 17K,
could you and charles not snip the unimpotrant drival from the
messages before replying.
--
I wonder do people become as Intelligent as their computers.
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe,
jonath...@bigfoot.com,
printe...@eirom.net
>
sg
From the same web page:
The use of refilled print cartridges alone does not affect either the
warranty or any maintenance contract purchased from HP for its Inkjet
printers.
"Charles Johnston" <ct...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:3c58...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Al Peterson
The "ethics" and "morality" police will be after you....
"Markus Wandel" <mar...@nospam.pinetree.org> wrote in message
news:a393eb$oj$1...@asterix.localdomain...
> In article <3c57f...@news7.fast.net>,
> Tom Krishan <tkri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the research and posting these patent numbers. I have ordered
my
> >copies from http://www.uspto.gov and look forward to reading them.
>
> Hmmm. I got my copies for free. When you view the text portion of the
> patent, there is an "Images" button at the top. Click that, and, at least
> with a browser that can display TIFF files inline, you can then page
through
> the 300dpi scans of the pages.
>
> On my Linux setup, the plugin didn't work (I only saw the upper left
corner
> of the pages, with no way to scroll or zoom them) but the whole TIFF file
> ended up in the browser's cache. So I just paged through, collected all
the
> TIFF files from the cache directory, and printed them using tiff2ps.
> Looks perfect.
>
Big Al
Why not just use the snap and fill to refill? The set screw does work
best for refilling thru the fill hole. But you have to make sure you
give the cartridge a little squeeze when sealing so that the pressure
will equalize.
I like the snap n fill to refill because it flushes the printhead
nozzles and we think allows the cartridge to last longer without ink
building up.
There are two levels of HP ink availble. One is more pigmented (more
water resistant) but not as rich a black. The other is less pigmented
biut the black is much richer. Check us out next time you need ink.
All HP printer supplies and support here:
http://www.ink-refills.com/hp.htm
Cheers & Happy Printing,
Al
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
SAVE to 80% on your PRINTING
FREE printer care e-Booklet with SECRETS
of refilling and cartridges you can buy 50% off.
mailto:f...@netwares.com?subject=FAQ_NG
Find out about refill kits, cartridges and toners.
http://www.netwares.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Tom Krishan wrote:
> "Markus Wandel" <mar...@nospam.pinetree.org> wrote in message
> news:a37g6t$t0k$1...@asterix.localdomain...
>
>
>>I have my doubts about refilling too, and I think I can afford the price
>>of full #45 cartridges. It's just paying as much or slightly more for
>>half-full #15 cartridges that really gets my steam up.
>>
>
George E. Cawthon
year (or maybe the year before) you didn't like bottom
filling and pushed the drill and fill only.
Big Al
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> What made you change your mind about bottom filling? Last
> year (or maybe the year before) you didn't like bottom
> filling and pushed the drill and fill only.
Hi,
Really? I've always liked the bottom fill for these pressurized
cartridges - I think. I don't ever remember having anything against them
but this business is always a learning process. MAybe I wasn't that
familiar with the bottom fill then and was just promoting what I knew
worked.
I would use them for one reason alone - that is because it flushes the
printhead and helps dissolve any dried ink. I keep trying to get my
suppliers to make these for all black cartridges.
DaMAN
I still fill thru' the bottom hole and seal with a set srew squeezing the
sides simultaneously.
However I evacuate and air / frothy ink with the use of a bottom fill
adaptor with the #45 inverted nozzles up.
Will the #45 survive 5 X 42 refills without loosing one of the 300 nozzles
if so then its the way to go.
As for back flushing if you study the patents carefully you will see that
the Ink feeder channels to the nozzle heaters is very narrow constant
pressure flow by filling may not be a good thing.
Here is a view against bottom nozzle filling by a refiller
snip>
With many years developing ink for ink jet with patents and processes behind
me, I recommend not to fill through the nozzles of any Ink Jet. There is
several good reasons for not filling like this. It should be obivious that
the OEM does not do this for good reason.
If there is a fill hole use it. Any machine that fills through the nozzles
such as the "thing from colorado" did (hopefully they changed it). It forces
undo pressure on the print plate and possibly delaminating the integrity of
the nozzle chip assembly, either through excessive damage to the resisters
and or warps the head. Probably the most evident damage will not occur until
your customer recieves it or leaks during shipment. Really that is where and
when you will enjoy repeat business or not. Why can I make this statement?
How can I be right. well you are forcing a pigmented ink system into and
through the nozzles. Pigment and carbon black and some binders are abrasive
in there natural state. Imagine it being like sandpaper, When the ink is
forced you can degrogate the nozzle oriface and simutanously cause bad print
quality and micro scopic air entrapment in the ink and cause eventual
outgassing over the screen and nozzles where bubbles form on these surfaces
and thus your customer will yield simulated clogged nozzles when in fact it
is the air entrapment at fault by improper feed manifesting starvation. Is
there a way of correcting this?
well yes but through the expense of major investment of money for degassing
equipment and Special X ray devices for inspection. When in fact if you had
filled through the fill as the OEM and with a slightly reduced fill time the
air would not form.
Another sure tell sign of excessive pressure in the cartridge is why do my
45 or 15's or other Air bag systems leak after I tape. If you experience
this and you know with out a reasonable doubt your taping procedure is
credible, I would have to say the cartridge has exessive pressure.
<end
"Big Al" <A...@netwares.com> wrote in message
news:3C59B2FF...@netwares.com...
George E. Cawthon
Big Al wrote:
>
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
> > What made you change your mind about bottom filling? Last
> > year (or maybe the year before) you didn't like bottom
> > filling and pushed the drill and fill only.
>
> Hi,
>
> Really? I've always liked the bottom fill for these pressurized
> cartridges - I think. I don't ever remember having anything against them
> but this business is always a learning process. MAybe I wasn't that
> familiar with the bottom fill then and was just promoting what I knew
> worked.
>
> I would use them for one reason alone - that is because it flushes the
> printhead and helps dissolve any dried ink. I keep trying to get my
> suppliers to make these for all black cartridges.
>
> Al
> http://www.ink-refills.com
>
Well, I thought you had, and you didn't offer a bottom fill
at the time. I remember one of your competitors was very
adamant about not filling through the nozzles because of
probable wear by the pigmented ink. I thought you had
completely agreed. Oh well, getting older. But I'll
probably order from you anyway if I decide to start
refilling cartridges.
Tom Krishan
> This is the exact method I use for filling the #45 Tom
> How many refills do you get I am on 5 X 42ml with one now
> With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but eventually you
> lose 1 bank of nozzles
I have not refilled a #45 more than 4 times. I have a ready supply of
empties and when I cannot get 100% of the nozzles firing, I recover the ink
back out through the fill hole and discard the cartridge. When I have only
a few nozzles bad, I have often been able to recover them by putting Windex
on a folded up paper towel and gently blotting the nozzle plate of the
cartridge against the moist towel. I have also used the Snap & Fill to
vacuum some of the ink out of the cartridge as a way of flushing out the
blockages.
Tom
Tom Krishan
> How many refills do you get I am on 5 X 42ml with one now
> With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but eventually you
> lose 1 bank of nozzles
I have not refilled a #45 more than 4 times. I have a ready supply of
empties and when I cannot get 100% of the nozzles firing, I extract the ink
back out through the fill hole and discard the cartridge. When I have only
a few nozzles bad, I have often been able to recover them by putting Windex
on a folded up paper towel and gently blotting the nozzle plate of the
cartridge against the moist towel. I have also used the Snap & Fill to
vacuum some of the ink out of the cartridge as a way of flushing out the
blockages.
The #78 color cartridges have been more problematic for me. I am coming to
the conclusion that these cartridges are very particular about the physical
properties of the ink. The #45s seem to work with just about any vendor's
ink but the print quality varies. The #78s just don't seem to work right
with some of the inks (all supposedly produced for the #78) that I have
tried.
Tom
Tom Krishan
> Tom,
>
> Why not just use the snap and fill to refill? The set screw does work
> best for refilling thru the fill hole. But you have to make sure you
> give the cartridge a little squeeze when sealing so that the pressure
> will equalize.
>
> I like the snap n fill to refill because it flushes the printhead
> nozzles and we think allows the cartridge to last longer without ink
> building up.
My experience with refilling cartridges with the Snap & Fill has been that I
have seen a higher percentage of nozzle failures this way. I strive to have
all of the nozzles working. I have refilled cartridges with the Snap & Fill
that were working perfectly before the refill and had around 20% to 30% of
the cartridges with a few nozzles no longer firing after the refill. My
guess is that I forced some particles into the nozzle holes or damaged the
nozzle plate by refilling too quickly.
By refilling through the fill hole, I have not seen this problem. What is
great about the Snap & Fill is that I can use it to pull the air out of the
cartridge and equilibrate the pressure of the bladder bag. I usually pull
several milliliters of ink from the cartridge which also flushes out the
nozzles. Refilling through the fill hole without the Snap & Fill to remove
the air and equilbrate the pressure in the bladder was alway messy. I would
have to let the cartridge drip for a while before putting it in the printer.
> There are two levels of HP ink availble. One is more pigmented (more
> water resistant) but not as rich a black. The other is less pigmented
> biut the black is much richer. Check us out next time you need ink.
> All HP printer supplies and support here:
> http://www.ink-refills.com/hp.htm
I have tried a brand of ink that is similar to this description and found
both types a little more gray than the OEM ink. I also thought the
viscousity was off as I noticed more bleeding into the paper fibers of paper
not specifically formulated for ink jet printting. I don't know if this is
the brand that you are selling and it was about a year ago that I tried this
brand of ink with two variations for HP printers from a local vendor at a
MarketPro show.
I'll check out your web site.
Tom
DaMAN
>
> "DaMAN" <hipb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a3al14$16u095$1...@ID-117683.news.dfncis.de...
> > This is the exact method I use for filling the #45 Tom
> > How many refills do you get I am on 5 X 42ml with one now
> > With 300 nozzles a few not firing still prints perfect but eventually
you
> > lose 1 bank of nozzles
>
> I have not refilled a #45 more than 4 times. I have a ready supply of
> empties and when I cannot get 100% of the nozzles firing, I extract the
ink
> back out through the fill hole and discard the cartridge. When I have
only
> a few nozzles bad, I have often been able to recover them by putting
Windex
> on a folded up paper towel and gently blotting the nozzle plate of the
> cartridge against the moist towel. I have also used the Snap & Fill to
> vacuum some of the ink out of the cartridge as a way of flushing out the
> blockages.
>
1. Filling thru' nozzles is very slow and there is a chance of injecting
larger particles that would cause blockage unless filtered ink has been
perfect.
Filling thru' the fill hole is quick and the intl. screen will trap
particles a final balance with snap and fill and its ready.
Windex is magic for freeing a few blocked nozzles.
> The #78 color cartridges have been more problematic for me. I am coming
to
> the conclusion that these cartridges are very particular about the
physical
> properties of the ink. The #45s seem to work with just about any vendor's
> ink but the print quality varies. The #78s just don't seem to work right
> with some of the inks (all supposedly produced for the #78) that I have
> tried.
>
Here i rest the #78 on tissue pad in a plastic cup I also use the overflow
hole trick 3 holes 3/32 dia 1.375" from the top into each chamber at the
front so overfilling is avoided.
Finally I use the INKTEC balance clip to remove a few ml's of CYM ink and
air (Inktec ink www.intec.com from Korea )but there are US suppliers.
> Tom
>
>
>
>
Tom Krishan
>
> Here i rest the #78 on tissue pad in a plastic cup I also use the overflow
> hole trick 3 holes 3/32 dia 1.375" from the top into each chamber at the
> front so overfilling is avoided.
> Finally I use the INKTEC balance clip to remove a few ml's of CYM ink and
> air (Inktec ink www.intec.com from Korea )but there are US suppliers.
I use a tool that I purchased from http://www.theinkexpress.com called the
Snap & Vac. It is similar to the Snap & Fill but pulls a vacuum on the
bottom of a #23 / #78 cartridge. I have had moderate success with this
tool.
Here's the phenomenon that baffles me. I can take a perfectly good #78
cartridge with all nozzles firing. Before it is completely empty, I inject
5 ml of ink into each color into the bottom with a long needle. I am always
careful not to inject any air. What often happens is that one of the colors
will act as if there is a partial blockage when printing. All colors of the
ink flow freely when blotting the nozzle plate on a paper towel but when
printing, it acts if there is air or an obstruction to the ink flow path.
Running a nozzle test will show a number of nozzles not firing but not the
same ones each time. The phenomenon is more prevalent in draft and normal
modes of printing (faster speed). Any ideas?
Tom
DaMAN
>
> "DaMAN" <hipb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:a3kfs2$18t2i6$1...@ID-117683.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > Here i rest the #78 on tissue pad in a plastic cup I also use the
overflow
> > hole trick 3 holes 3/32 dia 1.375" from the top into each chamber at
the
> > front so overfilling is avoided.
> > Finally I use the INKTEC balance clip to remove a few ml's of CYM ink
and
> > air (Inktec ink www.intec.com from Korea )but there are US suppliers.
>
> I use a tool that I purchased from http://www.theinkexpress.com called the
> Snap & Vac. It is similar to the Snap & Fill but pulls a vacuum on the
> bottom of a #23 / #78 cartridge. I have had moderate success with this
> tool.
>
If using long needles withdraw very slightly as you fill this will avoid
foaming the ink because if the needle in into too high a density of ink
pressure builds up and flow is hindered raise as you fill.
5mL is wise amount.
The vacuum clip you use should remove air 1-2mL is enough
If there is some foamy ink then delivery to nozzles is not even
The magenta seems more of a problem by my refilling
Try the best #78 OEM ink you can get INKTEC is very good no probs.
I refilled a #78 so many times (8) in the end magenta got weak, nozzles
still firing but weak.
C Y was still good.
Just keep at it its technique and right ink.
HTH