Used VxWorks
Dean Tran
to run under Linux second hand?
Dean
Joe Durusau
Not legally.
Speaking only for myself,
Joe Durusau
Andreas
I assume you could buy Tornado/vxWorks "second hand" if you would find
someone who would sell their license. However getting it to work would
be a different story, for that you need keys an those can only be
received from WR and I dont think they would provide them for you. If
you for some reason manage to get hold of the tools and make them work
it would be though to release your product. WR would not look kindly
upon someone pushing products and not paying royalty to them for using
their OS.
Conclusion: Want to use the tool better have the dollars to make the
magic happen.
Regards
Andreas
P.S Sometimes WR provides an eval copy of their tool for 1 month, you
can try that if you want to get a feel of it.
dean...@ix.netcom.com (Dean Tran) wrote in message news:<2317be0f.04021...@posting.google.com>...
Chris Hann
department. The license is not transferable, that means you can't sell
it. As a customer I met this several times where we were consulting to
someone else, fortunately Wind are not too unreasonable and accepted
that although the purchaser was someone else it was all for the same
project. Now they changed the licensing, but you still can't sell a
Tornado you are done with.
By the way, with engineering costing thousands of dollars a week is it
really all that expensive? I once spent several hours telling a guy
that I wasn't going to give him the source code for the Wind River port
of a product. He was a contractor, at that time probably on $150/hr,
the ported product cost $2500 and he'd been trying to port it for a
month. That's like $24k.
I once had a customer complaining about the cost, they got an
unbelievable deal on the target royalties. I asked him how many man
years of effort went into their software and what proportion of the
delivered system was theirs as opposed to ours. He decided to talk
about his problem instead.
It's only expensive until you have to pay for writing it yourself. Then
again vxWorks would be a hard sell on my current project.
Chris
> _______________________________________________
> VxWorks Users Group mailing list
> VxWe...@lbl.gov
> http://www-csg.lbl.gov/vxworks/
Dean Tran
> Good one:):)
>
> I assume you could buy Tornado/vxWorks "second hand" if you would find
> someone who would sell their license. However getting it to work would
> be a different story, for that you need keys an those can only be
> received from WR and I dont think they would provide them for you. If
> you for some reason manage to get hold of the tools and make them work
> it would be though to release your product. WR would not look kindly
> upon someone pushing products and not paying royalty to them for using
> their OS.
So license is not transferable? what if someone buy the product, then,
he has no use and wants to sell it, just like selling computer with MS
Windows?
Michael R. Kesti
>So license is not transferable? what if someone buy the product, then,
>he has no use
Then that someone has wasted some of his money.
> and wants to sell it, just like selling computer with MS
>Windows?
It isn't just like selling a computer with MS Windows. Unlike VxWorks,
Windows is a consumer product. MS and WR therefore invoke different
licensing constraints.
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mke...@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Andreas
If you or a company would spend about US 25k - US 30k buying WR tools
and then 2 weeks later come to the conclusion that there is no use for
it I think WR would say "though luck" and have a big party.
If WR would allow the sale of second hand tools that would affect
their business very badly. All project sooner or later reach either
EOL or development stops becasue the product is complete and/or
stable. Like you said that these tools are of no use anymore but if WR
would allow second hand trading then they would make less money. Every
one would try to buy second hand tools for a cheaper price.
Another good way to check this is to look at this user group. All
people posting on this forum work with WR tools in some way. If tools
could be bought second hand this forum would have some posting of
people/companies trying to sell the tools after they have no need for
it. So far during my 2 years here I have never seen any tools for sale
and I dont think I will ever see it. Unless WR starts pushing their
tools here.
I heard that tools can be transfered within a company; country to
country, office to office and so on but that will always involve a
cost and it would not be cheap.
So my answer is clear on this one:
I do not think for a second that WR would allow/support sales of tools
second hand since they will not make any money on it.
Regards
Andreas
dean...@ix.netcom.com (Dean Tran) wrote in message news:<2317be0f.0402...@posting.google.com>...
Dean Tran
> I do not think for a second that WR would allow/support sales of tools
> second hand since they will not make any money on it.
>
I guess you answer my question--With its price, I guess, WR customer
are companies use their tech to make products, not a typical consumer.
John Aderseen
You need to be rich to start playing around with this thing !
John
"Dean Tran" <dean...@ix.netcom.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:2317be0f.04021...@posting.google.com...
Chris Hann
should be to compare the cost of having it to the cost of not. You
should also look at the delta to the hardware cost and then compare
between operating systems. vxWorks used to win big time in the embedded
space by not requiring a vast amount of expensive memory. You also need
to check that it will function exactly as you want. Then you have to
look at how well it supports your development effort, for example one
thing I miss right now is WindView. There are costs associated with all
these things.
In the past my judgment on several projects was that the few tens of
thousands of dollars I would have to spend on vxWorks were a hell of a
lot less than the cost of employing guys to write the same functionality
and that they also reduced the risk, since any software development
effort has a finite risk of failure.
I have also seen customers take months to port things like RogueWave
rather than pay for the Wind River port. They didn't like paying for the
tried and tested WR version but they were willing to spend a lot more
engineering time and money to pay 'less' for the software.
I have also had customers whine to me about the cost of vxWorks, I just
asked them what it would have cost them to develop the functionality
they needed in house to an adequate level.
If price is an issue then try a Linux variant. Personally I like the
amount of control I have with vxWorks, but then I also know enough to be
comfortable modifying and rebuilding the source.
In the end you need to be rich to be paying the bills for software
development, if you'd rather write your own than buy it then good luck
to you and at the end you can see which was actually cheaper. The
biggest supplier of embedded operating systems is still "roll your own".
The last time I decided to buy vxWorks the decision came down to: if we
needed to talk on the network instead of carry it then we'd buy, if we
didn't then we wouldn't.
Perhaps the price model for vxWorks doesn't scale well to small
engineering projects, but then Wind has a problem with customer honesty.
I mostly did military work, we'd have used vxWorks more if we'd not
had to pay the development tool fee on every project.
Chris
Demrala Rood
> Perhaps the price model for vxWorks doesn't scale well to small
> engineering projects, but then Wind has a problem with customer honesty.
I've heard it said that, in certain countries, there is but one
valid Tornado CD for every 1,000 software engineers. ;)
Embedded hobbyists and tinkerers have dozens of choices for free
kernels. With free GNU tools, anyone can develop embedded S/W.
Wind River doesn't want that business and I don't blame them.
DR