Help needed booting VAX 4000-200 from Alpha using Infoserver utility

[terry-...@glaver.org]

I am trying to do a clean install of VMS 7.3 (from the Hobbyist Program) on a VAX 4000-200 (real, not emulated) via my VMS 8.4 Alpha DS10 (emulated via AlphaVM Pro). The 4000-200 has an existing installation of VMS 5.4-3 which is working, so I know that hardware is good. Likewise, the emulated Alpha DS10 has been running for years with no problems.

I am basing this on the documentation at:
https://support.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623149

I have configured the Infoserver utility and have MOP enabled on the Alpha, with the Hobbyist "OpenVMS VAX 073 OS.iso" mounted in $1$DKA400:

SERVER::$ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:ESS$INFOSERVER
InfoServer> show service
Service Name [Service Class] Device or File
-------------------- --------------- --------------------------
VAX073 [ODS-2] _$1$DKA400:
%INFOSRVR-I-FOUND, 1 service found.

When I "B/R5:100 EZA0:" on the VAX 4000-200, and give it the ISL_SVAX_073 filename I see the expected:

Network Initial System Load Function
Version 1.2
FUNCTION FUNCTIONID
1 - Display Menu
2 - Help
3 - Choose Service
4 - Select Options
5 - Stop

Entering 3, then 2, then ISL_SVAX_073 at the "Enter a Known Service Name:" prompt returns with "No Services Found."

Entering 3 then 1 for "Find services" returns the expected "# 1 VAX073" service, but selecting 1 responds with "%ISL-F-BADOPEN, unable to locate SYSBOOT" and halts at 000073C4.

The only OPCOM messages I receive pertain to the initial netboot:

%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 20-MAR-2019 15:55:55.39 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on NODE
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
From node 35.63 (SERVER), 20-MAR-2019 15:55:55.39
Circuit EWA-0, Load, Requested, File = MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID:ISL_SVAX_073
Operating system, Ethernet address = 08-00-2B-aa-bb-cc

SERVER::$
%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 20-MAR-2019 15:56:00.39 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on NODE
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
From node 35.63 (SERVER), 20-MAR-2019 15:55:56.16
Circuit EWA-0, Load, Successful, File = MOM$SYSTEM_SOFTID:ISL_SVAX_073
Operating system, Ethernet address = 08-00-2B-aa-bb-cc

Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong?

I have never used the Infoserver utility on Alpha VMS, but this VAX 4000-200 has no optical drive and a broken tape drive, so I'm somewhat limited in my boot options to get VMS 7.3 installed.

[dgordo...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-4, terry-...@glaver.org wrote:
> I am trying to do a clean install of VMS 7.3 (from the Hobbyist Program) on a VAX 4000-200 (real, not emulated) via my VMS 8.4 Alpha DS10 (emulated via AlphaVM Pro). The 4000-200 has an existing installation of VMS 5.4-3 which is working, so I know that hardware is good. Likewise, the emulated Alpha DS10 has been running for years with no problems.

Even as the Executive Vice President of InfoServer Engineering at VSI, the only advice I can offer you is to see if you can find the installation guide for V7.3. It's been too long since I had to ISL a VAX system.

There are issues perhaps with the names of things, and make sure the stuff that needed to be in MOM$LOAD is w:re.

Actually, look in the MFD of the installation disc. There's a text file there that gave the hardware InfoServer information about the things that had to be copied from the CD to MOP partitions. I don't remember the name, but it should stand out.

[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 5:20:14 PM UTC-4, dgordo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Even as the Executive Vice President of InfoServer Engineering at VSI, the only advice I can offer you is to see if you can find the installation guide for V7.3. It's been too long since I had to ISL a VAX system.

The link in my original post is to the HP 7.3 installation guide. However, it is less than informative.

> There are issues perhaps with the names of things, and make sure the stuff that needed to be in MOM$LOAD is w:re.

They were not w:re, but fixing that didn't change the behavior.

> Actually, look in the MFD of the installation disc. There's a text file there that gave the hardware InfoServer information about the things that had to be copied from the CD to MOP partitions. I don't remember the name, but it should stand out.

There is an ISL_SCRIPT.ESS;1 file which contains (after removing comment lines):
USE MOP [SYS0.SYSEXE]ISL_LVAX_073.SYS /PAR=ISL_LVAX_073 "VMS V7.3 ISL support"
USE MOP [SYS0.SYSEXE]ISL_SVAX_073.SYS /PAR=ISL_SVAX_073 "VMS V7.3 ISL support"

But none of the SYS$SYSTEM:ESS$mumble.EXE utilities have any sort of "USE" command. My guess is that that is for a real Infoserver that doesn't have a MOM$LOAD directory and thus it needs to be told about what files to serve via MOP to its clients.

[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 3:59:28 PM UTC-4, terry-...@glaver.org wrote:

> I have never used the Infoserver utility on Alpha VMS, but this VAX 4000-200 has no optical drive and a broken tape drive, so I'm somewhat limited in my boot options to get VMS 7.3 installed.

I was able to work around this via a very convoluted process - I used the VMS 5.4-3 that was on the system disk on the 4000 to create a bootable standalone backup on a second drive, then FTP'd over the VMS073.* files from my Alpha. I then used the running VMS 5.4-3 to restore the VMS073.B kit to a third drive (BACKUP complained about unknown attributes in the save set, since it is a V5.4 BACKUP trying to read a V7.3 saveset). I then booted the third drive (with VMS 7.3 on it) and used STABACKIT to update the standalone backup on the second drive. I then booted the second drive and repeated the VMS 7.3 install on the third drive - since this was now a 7.3 standalone backup reading a 7.3 installation saveset, it completed without errors. Now I just need to shuffle drives around and install licenses and layered products.

I'd still be interested in any ideas why the Infoserver boot method didn't work.

[Bob Wilson]

Could you post a pointer to where you picked up your VAX073 CD (the .ISO file)?

I think that I can find a copy of a "real" CD, which I'd like to compare the .ISO copy against.

n.b. Like Doug, I used to do this kinda stuff all the time (i.e. setup InfoServers (real hardware and the version(s) that ran/runs on VMS), create & delete partitions for new kits [to boot test], etc.)...but it's been a long time and the details of the gotcha's now escape me.

[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 8:58:59 AM UTC-4, Bob Wilson wrote:
> Could you post a pointer to where you picked up your VAX073 CD (the .ISO file)?

It was from the download link provided by the HP VMS Hobbyist Program. This is the URL, but you'll need the current username / password from the Hobbyist Program to access it (clicking on the link won't do anything):
https://ftp.ext.hpe.com/hprc/downloadFile/VAXVMS%25%2520073%25%2520OS%25%2520ISO.zip/

[Hans Vlems]

shouldn’t the infoserver supply the VAX with VMB.EXE?

[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 9:23:32 AM UTC-4, Hans Vlems wrote:
> shouldn’t the infoserver supply the VAX with VMB.EXE?

Apparently not - if you read the documentation link I posted in my original message, it says: "During an InfoServer boot, the procedure prompts you for a file name that contains an initial system load (ISL) boot program instead of a virtual memory boot (VMB) program."

[Martin Vorlaender]

Am Mittwoch, 20. März 2019 20:59:28 UTC+1 schrieb terry-...@glaver.org:
> I am trying to do a clean install of VMS 7.3 (from the Hobbyist
> Program) on a VAX 4000-200 (real, not emulated) via my VMS 8.4 Alpha
> DS10 (emulated via AlphaVM Pro). The 4000-200 has an existing
> installation of VMS 5.4-3 which is working, so I know that hardware is
> good. Likewise, the emulated Alpha DS10 has been running for years
> with no problems.

...

> Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong?
>
> I have never used the Infoserver utility on Alpha VMS, but this VAX
> 4000-200 has no optical drive and a broken tape drive, so I'm somewhat
> limited in my boot options to get VMS 7.3 installed.

I had the same problem bootstrapping a SIMH VAX from a VMS I64 infoserver,
but I can't find my notes.

I /think/ it had to do with DECnet altering the Integrity's MAC addresse,
and the VAX's ISL program requesting files using the hardware MAC address
at one point. So, temporarily switching off DECnet (and thus operating the
machine on the hardware MAC address) solved the problem.

HTH,
Martin

[dgordo...@gmail.com]

Or make sure to start the InfoServer software *after* DECnet starts. Although since OP said he actually got a list of services from the boot menu, it means the InfoServer side of that was working.

Unfortunately, the LAD/LAST support in ISL is less than robust and has no error recovery due to the primitive environment in which it is required to operate.