HP Bringing the Hobbyist Program In-House

[ss]

Not Found
The requested URL /htbin/ohp_hobreg was not found on this server.

Spotted this on http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/
Not much information right now but let's hope for the best! :-) Just
thought to post it here too. AFAICS it's bad news for those whose PAKs
will - just as mine - expire soon.


"HP has decided to take ownership of delivering licenses for Hobbyist
users, making it an official Customer Engagement function. As such,
Hobby Licenses will no longer be available through this site. Details
of the HP's delivery of licenses to Hobbyist Users is still under
development and I hope that they will have an announcement soon.

I've been involved and hosting licensing for the Hobbyist Program for
nearly 15 years. Hard to believe that it's been that long. And many of
you have been around since the beginning. Few products in this industry
have that kind of customer retention.

I'd really like to thank Pat Jankowiak and Mark Gorham for making the
Hobbyist Program possible. Sue Skonetski and Stephen Hoffman for all
their technical assistance over the years. Ian Miller, Bruce Claremont,
and John Malmberg for helping admin the site. Thanks to all the various
Chapters from around the world for their support. And of course, all
the Hobbyists who have enjoyed the program.

And of finally, I would like to thank my colleague, my friend, and the
Best Man at my wedding, John Wisniewski. He spent a lot of time
convincing the Digital VP's that this was a good thing.

Here's to another 15 years!
David Cathey aka HobbyistOne

REI"

[Bob Eager]

And this'll be the point where they introduce an Admin Fee, a Membership
Fee, restrict the licenses available...



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

[JF Mezei]

ss wrote:

> "HP has decided to take ownership of delivering licenses for Hobbyist
> users, making it an official Customer Engagement function.

How difficult is it to patch the LMF system to accept expired licenses ?

So, my remaining VMS nodes will have to perpetually remain in 2011.

Who within HP is going to be handling this ? Do they even intent to
write a letter explaining the changes and when the new system will be
available ?

Will they take Mt Cathey's database of valid decus numbers and hnour
existing members forever (as we had been promised) ?



On the other hand, perhaps HP intends to open source VMS and we won't
need to renew those licences anymore, they will just have a system to
grant permanent licnces.

[Steven Schweda]

On Jan 25, 6:01 pm, ss <m...@thisis.invalid> wrote:

> [...]

> Hobby Licenses will no longer be available through this site. Details
> of the HP's delivery of licenses to Hobbyist Users is still under
> development and I hope that they will have an announcement soon.

That sounds like the HP way. Disable the current working
system, and then start work on its replacement. I expect
this to turn out about as well as the switch-over to the new
(shiny) user-forum garbage-ware. Probably won't be able to
get new PAKs using a Web browser on a VMS system.

[JF Mezei]

Steven Schweda wrote:

> That sounds like the HP way. Disable the current working
> system, and then start work on its replacement. I expect
> this to turn out about as well as the switch-over to the new
> (shiny) user-forum garbage-ware. Probably won't be able to
> get new PAKs using a Web browser on a VMS system.

My licenses are due for renewall late april/early may. My concern is
that the new HP system won't be ready by then. And with Decus Canada no
longer functional, if they don't like my original decus number (from the
real decus days) which Montagar accepted, then what am I to do ?

This is why finding a way to patch the LMF to accept expired licences
should be a project that is undertaken now so that if HP doesn't come
through with their system, hobbyists won't have to shut down their VMS
system while waiting for HP's new system.

[JF Mezei]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank David L Cathey and his
company Montagar for having operated the hobbyist programme for all
those years.

His was an extremely valuable contribution to the community and he
deserves a huge KUDOS.

[Michael Kraemer]

JF Mezei schrieb:

>
> How difficult is it to patch the LMF system to accept expired licenses ?
>

PAKGEN?

>
> Who within HP is going to be handling this ? Do they even intent to
> write a letter explaining the changes and when the new system will be
> available ?
>

A couple of months ago somebody posted a request
to justify the usefulness of the hobbyist program.
Maybe that was the writing on the wall ...

[Howard S Shubs]

In article <4f2101cb$0$1672$c3e8da3$aae7...@news.astraweb.com>,

JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> His was an extremely valuable contribution to the community and he
> deserves a huge KUDOS.

He does, too.

--
May all your good dreams and fine wishes come true! - The Wizard
May joy be yours all the days of your life! - Phina
We are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass. - The Youngbloods

[MG]

On 26-1-2012 1:01, ss wrote:
> Spotted this on http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/
> Not much information right now but let's hope for the best! :-) Just
> thought to post it here too. AFAICS it's bad news for those whose PAKs
> will - just as mine - expire soon.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Like you, I keep on hoping for the
best. (My PAKs will expire in mid-April.)

- MG

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Argh !
Just saw that my lics expired 23-JAN-2012...
And now what... ?

Jan-Erik.

[joukj]

Do not be too negative. I can confirm that HP already has the infra
structure/knowledge how to do this:

Part of my machines run on a educational license which I have to renew
each year. It takes me a few mouse clicks every year on a HP-website and
receive the packs in my E-mail-box. The whole procedure takes far less
than one hour.

Jouk

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Is the licences you get comparable with the licences through
the Hobbyist program ? In particular compilers.

Jan-Erik.

[MG]

On 26-1-2012 8:29, JF Mezei wrote:
> My licenses are due for renewall late april/early may. My concern is
> that the new HP system won't be ready by then. And with Decus Canada no
> longer functional, if they don't like my original decus number (from the
> real decus days) which Montagar accepted, then what am I to do ?

Didn't you say, a while ago, that you had completely stopped using
VMS...?

- MG

[joukj]

As far as I know : yes
Licenses are available for all three type of architectures.
and it is free for all employees/students of any school/university.
The only restriction is that is not to be used for commercial activities.

see for a product list: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/prodlist.html

Jouk

[MG]

On 26-1-2012 6:22, JF Mezei wrote:
> How difficult is it to patch the LMF system to accept expired licenses ?

It's one thing that you don't care for VMS anymore and have stopped
using it (by your own admission, a while ago), but *please* don't ruin
it for others by suggesting to break or infringe upon the usage terms
and conditions! You are only giving those who are already skeptical
about the Hobbyist Program an excuse to put an end to the program.

- MG

[ss]

In article <c5748$4f212e9c$82a13c9d$45...@news1.tudelft.nl>, joukj
<jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:

> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> >
> > Is the licences you get comparable with the licences through
> > the Hobbyist program ? In particular compilers.
> >
> > Jan-Erik.
>
> As far as I know : yes
> Licenses are available for all three type of architectures.
> and it is free for all employees/students of any school/university.

Do you know where one can find more info on this?

> The only restriction is that is not to be used for commercial activities.

That will be ok :-)

Thx
Sascha

[ss]

In article <260120121234172844%m...@thisis.invalid>, ss

<m...@thisis.invalid> wrote:

> In article <c5748$4f212e9c$82a13c9d$45...@news1.tudelft.nl>, joukj
> <jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:
>
> > Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> > >
> > > Is the licences you get comparable with the licences through
> > > the Hobbyist program ? In particular compilers.
> > >
> > > Jan-Erik.
> >
> > As far as I know : yes
> > Licenses are available for all three type of architectures.
> > and it is free for all employees/students of any school/university.
>
> Do you know where one can find more info on this?
>

Sorry had overlooked it!
The FAQ is here:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/faq.html

So apparently you can only get a license if your school/university is
already registered with HP.

[VAXman-]

In article <4f20e311$0$2237$c3e8da3$88b2...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> writes:
>ss wrote:
>
>> "HP has decided to take ownership of delivering licenses for Hobbyist
>> users, making it an official Customer Engagement function.
>
>
>How difficult is it to patch the LMF system to accept expired licenses ?

Piece of cake but I'm not going to tell you how. ;)

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

[Steven Schweda]

On Jan 26, 3:40 am, joukj <jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:

> Do not be too negative. [...]

You're joking, right?

Which recent experience would lead me to expect a good
outcome here? The non-painless switch-over to the new user
forums? The new no-patches-for-Hobbyists policy? The
immediate availability of the new Hobbyist PAK generator?

If being realistic is being "too negative", then call me
too negative.

[VAXman-]

The problem I see with this lack of a ready-to-go transitional process
is that it is going to turn many, otherwise would be, good-intentioned
OpenVMS Hobbyists into license infringing criminals when they can not
get their expired PAKs renewed. They'll either run with their clocks
set to some date in the past or find a way to bypass the LMF.

This is yet another HP precedent of "tossing the spanner" into the VMS
works.

IMHO, HP should belie the fears of all of these hobbyist by releasing
a set of PAKs NOW akin to the PAKs issued to DSPP members. One large
file of PAKs which terminate (in a year's time in the DSPP case) until
they get this new hobbyist registration process in place -- if ever?

[Richard B. Gilbert]

Well, the hobbyist program has kept a small cadre of people who read,
write, and understand VMS.

I'm afraid it's almost over! Thank God, I'm no longer financially
dependent on it!

R.I.P. VMS

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Problem solved. My system is now reloaded with fresh hobbyist
licenses from HP lasting to 31-Jan-2013.

Aprox 15 min from mailing back some system info I had the lics
as a COM file to run. This time as a complete COM file with
not only the LIC REGISTER commands but also the DIS/UNL/ENAB/LOAD
commands to clean up and activate the new licenses in one run.

Before I had a separate DCL routine to read the supplied COM
file and create an own COM file. No need for that anymore.

This was manualy handled and I got the impression that it is
not the final solution.

Jan-Erik.

[Rich Jordan]

On Jan 26, 9:35 am, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
wrote:

> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote 2012-01-26 10:39:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > MG wrote 2012-01-26 09:53:
> >> On 26-1-2012 1:01, ss wrote:

> >>> Spotted this onhttp://www.openvmshobbyist.com/

> >>> Not much information right now but let's hope for the best! :-) Just
> >>> thought to post it here too. AFAICS it's bad news for those whose PAKs
> >>> will - just as mine - expire soon.
>
> >> I'm not sure what to make of this. Like you, I keep on hoping for the
> >> best. (My PAKs will expire in mid-April.)
>
> >> - MG
>
> > Argh !
> > Just saw that my lics expired 23-JAN-2012...
> > And now what... ?
>
> > Jan-Erik.
>
> Problem solved. My system is now reloaded with fresh hobbyist
> licenses from HP lasting to 31-Jan-2013.
>
> Aprox 15 min from mailing back some system info I had the lics
> as a COM file to run. This time as a complete COM file with
> not only the LIC REGISTER commands but also the DIS/UNL/ENAB/LOAD
> commands to clean up and activate the new licenses in one run.
>
> Before I had a separate DCL routine to read the supplied COM
> file and create an own COM file. No need for that anymore.
>
> This was manualy handled and I got the impression that it is
> not the final solution.
>
> Jan-Erik.

That command procedure sounds just like the method used to deliver
DSPP PAKs.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

The complete DCL for one product ("C" in this case) is :

-----------------------------------------------------------
...
$! This PAK issued on 26-Jan-2012 10:19
$ Call CheckLicense "C" "31-JAN-2013"
$ IF ($STATUS .EQS. "%X107880D3") .OR. ($STATUS .EQS. "%X107880CB")
$ THEN
$!
$ LICENSE REGISTER C -
/ISSUER=DEC -
/AUTHORIZATION=HOBBYIST-JAN-ERIK-SODERHOLM -
/PRODUCER=DEC -
/UNITS=0 -
/TERMINATION_DATE=31-JAN-2013 -
/ACTIVITY=CONSTANT=100 -
/CHECKSUM=<the usual checksum format...>
$!
$ LICENSE DISABLE C/LOG/PRODUCER=DEC/ALL
$ LICENSE UNLOAD C/LOG/PRODUCER=DEC
$ LICENSE ENABLE C/LOG/PRODUCER=DEC/AUTH=HOBBYIST-JAN-ERIK-SODERHOLM
$ LICENSE LOAD C/LOG/PRODUCER=DEC
$ ENDIF
$ !
...
-----------------------------------------------------------

Which when runed gave :

%LICENSE-I-DISABLED, C <my old expired licens> has been disabled
%LICENSE-I-DISABLED, C HOBBYIST-JAN-ERIK-SODERHOLM has been disabled
%LICENSE-I-UNLOADED, C has been unloaded
%LICENSE-I-ENABLED, C HOBBYIST-JAN-ERIK-SODERHOLM has been enabled
%LICENSE-I-LOADED, DEC C was successfully loaded with 0 units

[Kenneth Fairfield]

Jan-Erik, you say your problem is solved, but you didn't say
*how* you solved it! Specifically, which URL did you go to
to get your system registered with HP and new PAKs issued?

Thanks, Ken

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Well, I asked myself the same... :-)

I first thought that it was my mail to the OpenVMS Program
Office, where I asked about this, but it was not.

It was my post where I wrote :

> Argh !
> Just saw that my lics expired 23-JAN-2012...
> And now what... ?

that was forwarded to "someone" at HP by "a friend in the community".

That "someone" (I do not know if I can supply the name) then
asked me a few facts by personal mail to which I replied and
15 min later got my PAK's.

So I did nothing apart from posting "Argh!" on c.o.v... :-)

Outstanding and excellent service by HP !

Jan-Erik.

[Rich Jordan]

On Jan 26, 11:44 am, Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
wrote:

Thats pretty nice but not very formalized.

the actual HP website hasn't been updated.

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/license_software_programs/index.html

still points to the VMS Hobbyist page and states

=======

HP OpenVMS programs

HP OpenVMS Hobbyist Program ›

Now available on Integrity, Alpha, and VAX Platforms! The OpenVMS
Hobbyist Program is an independent user community that provides HP
OpenVMS licensing and products authorized by the HP OpenVMS Hobbyist
License Terms and Conditions. This program provides a low cost
solution for the HP OpenVMS enthusiast who wants to learn more about
HP OpenVMS for the pleasure of using one of the finest operating
system for their own personal use. This program provides free OpenVMS
Product Authorization Keys (PAK's) to any member of a participating HP
User Group. In addition, the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program offers media
kits containing OpenVMS Base O/S software and selected Layered
Products for as low as $30.

Note: Integrity media to be made available shortly.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

OK. "Someone" at HP also wrote :

> We will have a web based registration page up shortly, off
> openvms.org, that will be very similar to the "old" one,
> few more questions...
>
> The request will come to HP and we'll fulfill the request vs.
> instantaneous fulfillment. Normal turnaround should be within 30-60
> mins but, depending on when request is made, it could take UP TO 24 hrs.
>
> HP will interact more with the Hobbyist.
>
> Take care,

[Fritz Wuehler]

> A couple of months ago somebody posted a request
> to justify the usefulness of the hobbyist program.
> Maybe that was the writing on the wall ...

Maybe they should stop screwing around with licenses that expire and just
allow non-commerical use for free? What a concept...

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik....@telia.com> wrote:

(snip)

> Well, I asked myself the same... :-)

(snip)

> It was my post where I wrote :

> > Argh !
> > Just saw that my lics expired 23-JAN-2012...
> > And now what... ?

I just found out that mine expired in Sept, and I was going to
bring it to the Seattle Retrocomputer Society meeting this weekend.
(Yes, I haven't had it running since then.)

It would be nice to have the web page instead of special service
for each one, though.

-- glen

[MG]

On 26-1-2012 19:16, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Maybe they should stop screwing around with licenses that expire and just
> allow non-commerical use for free? What a concept...

That would be great. It would probably require an altered license
agreement, as far as usage terms and conditions go, but I think that
in the end it would save everyone time and effort.

- MG

[Hans Vlems]

>                Jouk- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Jouk, since last year I'm a student again (TU/e, chemistry). Does that
mean I could apply for this programme?
If so, how/where do I start?
Hans

[BR...@rabbit.hsd1.ma.comcast.net]

"Groundhog Day" - just reset your system clock each day.

: - )

>
>Jan-Erik.

[Henry Crun]

Try not to use the phrase "final solution" -- sends shivers down my back.

--
Mike R.
Home: http://alpha.mike-r.com/
QOTD: http://alpha.mike-r.com/php/qotd.php
No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
Recommended reading: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before

[Henry Crun]

On 26/01/12 14:43, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article<4f20e311$0$2237$c3e8da3$88b2...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> writes:
>> ss wrote:
>>
>>> "HP has decided to take ownership of delivering licenses for Hobbyist
>>> users, making it an official Customer Engagement function.
>>
>>
>> How difficult is it to patch the LMF system to accept expired licenses ?
>
> Piece of cake but I'm not going to tell you how. ;)
>

Start the reverse engineering by doing:
show logic /tab=LMF$LICENSE_TABLE /full

[Bob Koehler]

In article <00ABBF86...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> Piece of cake but I'm not going to tell you how. ;)

How about: blatantly obvious, and we're still not going to tell him.

[Bob Koehler]

I've already seen evidence that they're keeping access up to the
old system until the move over is accomplished, and they're adding
downloads so you don't have to but a CD.

I'll be trying to get my licenses renewed this week, and keeping an
eye out for a chance to download more current software.

[Keith Parris]

I received the following communication from the OpenVMS organization to
pass on to folks:
---
From: Egolf, John
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:33 AM
Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Program


The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program provides HP OpenVMS licensing and products

authorized by the HP OpenVMS Hobbyist License Terms and Conditions. This

program, available on Integrity, Alpha, and VAX Platforms, provides a

low cost solution for the HP OpenVMS enthusiast who wants to learn more
about HP OpenVMS for the pleasure of using one of the finest operating
system for their own personal use. This program provides free OpenVMS
Product Authorization Keys (PAK's) to any member of a participating HP

User Group. In addition, the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program offers kits
containing OpenVMS Base O/S software and selected Layered Products via
download.

As we enter 2012, HP has decided to consolidate the Hobbyist and
openvms.org resources to better allow our users a single source, vs. two
sources, to get OpenVMS information. HP OpenVMS is also working closely
with Connect and strongly supports the Connect organization and their
programs and greatly values their participation in supporting the
OpenVMS users. Connect is a strong advocate of the Hobbyists and
OpenVMS users as a whole.

The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist

There are no changes being made to the registration process, no
additional fees are being requested.
HP and Connect will be more engaged with the Hobbyists to ensure OpenVMS
stays strong.

Additional Hobbyist centric pages and links will follow as we receive
feedback from the community.

Regards,

HP OpenVMS Team

[BillPedersen]

I recently received this:
=========================================================================
The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program provides HP OpenVMS licensing and products authorized by the HP OpenVMS Hobbyist License Terms and Conditions. This program, available on Integrity, Alpha, and VAX Platforms, provides a low cost solution for the HP OpenVMS enthusiast who wants to learn more about HP OpenVMS for the pleasure of using one of the finest operating system for their own personal use. This program provides free OpenVMS Product Authorization Keys (PAK's) to any member of a participating HP User Group. In addition, the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program offers kits containing OpenVMS Base O/S software and selected Layered Products via download. (as of 26 Jan 2012 this download feature has not been implemented, word is it will be in the next week or so - BP)

As we enter 2012, HP has decided to consolidate the Hobbyist and openvms.org resources to better allow our users a single source, vs. two sources, to get OpenVMS information. HP OpenVMS is also working closely with Connect and strongly supports the Connect organization and their programs and greatly values their participation in supporting the OpenVMS users. Connect is a strong advocate of the Hobbyists and OpenVMS users as a whole.

The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist

There are no changes being made to the registration process, no additional fees are being requested. HP and Connect will be more engaged with the Hobbyists to ensure OpenVMS stays strong.

Additional Hobbyist centric pages and links will follow as we receive feedback from the community.

Regards,

HP OpenVMS Team

=========================================================================

You can now request licenses via the above link.

Please also note that the HP web site has not yet been updated so it takes you to the old site for now.

Spread the word !

Thanks,


Bill Pedersen

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <4f212eb0$0$6857$e4fe...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>, MG

Right. The less said the better. Remember what happened to the PDP
hobbyist license. Don't screw it up for the rest of us. Please.

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <jfru7a$8bn$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> Which when runed gave :

Just to avoid confusion (and not to criticize your English, which is
better than my Swedish), this should be

Which when ran gave:

For a minute there I was disappointed that I don't have a terminal
(emulator) which supports the runes character set. :-)

Cue the Viking jokes....

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <qfm8v8...@Ubuntu.mike-r.com>, Henry Crun

<mi...@rechtman.com> writes:

> > This was manualy handled and I got the impression that it is
> > not the final solution.
> >
> > Jan-Erik.
> >
> Try not to use the phrase "final solution" -- sends shivers down my back.

I've often heard non-native speakers of English use this term without
realizing the connotations. It is the standard English translation of
Endlösung, which refers to the Holocaust (Förintelsen in Swedish).

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <jfsg2u$t2g$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, Keith Parris

<keithparris...@yahoo.com> writes:

> Additional Hobbyist centric pages and links will follow as we receive
> feedback from the community.
>
> Regards,
>
> HP OpenVMS Team

Maybe someone has seen the light and this will be a Good Thing. There
might even be patch access again!

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2012-01-26 23:41:
> In article<jfru7a$8bn$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> <jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
>
>> Which when runed gave :
>
> Just to avoid confusion (and not to criticize your English, which is
> better than my Swedish), this should be
>
> Which when ran gave:

Thanks!

>
> For a minute there I was disappointed that I don't have a terminal
> (emulator) which supports the runes character set. :-)
>

Note that runes today are part of the Unicode standard. :-)
So a web server on VMS can serve a webpage using the
rune alphabet. If one want...

Jan-Erik.


> Cue the Viking jokes....
>

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <jfslti$tkh$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm

<jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:

> Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2012-01-26 23:41:
> > In article<jfru7a$8bn$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> > <jan-erik....@telia.com> writes:
> >
> >> Which when runed gave :
> >
> > Just to avoid confusion (and not to criticize your English, which is
> > better than my Swedish), this should be
> >
> > Which when ran gave:
>
> Thanks!

Sorry, too late. Should be "run". Run (present and infinive), ran
(past), run (past participle---what we need here).

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

I fully understand the problem here. Sorry for that one!

Now, I do not think "the final solution" or Endlösung refers to
the Holocaust, it is the other way around, but never mind...

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

What about "Which when executed gave:" :-)

[Rich Jordan]

On Jan 26, 3:44 pm, Keith Parris <keithparris_deletet...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Glad to hear that Mr. Egolf is still around too!

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

If it's not clear by now, it was Mr Egolf that sent me the PAKs
earlier today. Time for a public thanks, Thanks ! :-)

Jan-Erik.

[ss]

In article <jfsg2u$t2g$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, Keith Parris

<keithparris...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I received the following communication from the OpenVMS organization to
> pass on to folks:
> ---
> From: Egolf, John
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 11:33 AM
> Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Program
>
>
> The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program provides HP OpenVMS licensing and products
> authorized by the HP OpenVMS Hobbyist License Terms and Conditions. This
> program, available on Integrity, Alpha, and VAX Platforms, provides a
> low cost solution for the HP OpenVMS enthusiast who wants to learn more
> about HP OpenVMS for the pleasure of using one of the finest operating
> system for their own personal use. This program provides free OpenVMS
> Product Authorization Keys (PAK's) to any member of a participating HP
> User Group. In addition, the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program offers kits
> containing OpenVMS Base O/S software and selected Layered Products via
> download.

This sounds very promising! Thanks!

>
> As we enter 2012, HP has decided to consolidate the Hobbyist and
> openvms.org resources to better allow our users a single source, vs. two
> sources, to get OpenVMS information. HP OpenVMS is also working closely
> with Connect and strongly supports the Connect organization and their
> programs and greatly values their participation in supporting the
> OpenVMS users. Connect is a strong advocate of the Hobbyists and
> OpenVMS users as a whole.
>
> The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
> http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist

Ok Have submitted my request and got a confirmation mail for now.

-S

[onedbguru]

On Jan 26, 12:14 pm, Kenneth Fairfield <ken.fairfi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jan-Erik, you say your problem is solved, but you didn't say
> *how* you solved it!  Specifically, which URL did you go to
> to get your system registered with HP and new PAKs issued?
>
>    Thanks, Ken

yes, the HOW is going to be much more important to me in another month
or so.

[BillPedersen]

You should note that the process is now "moderated". Here is a quote from John Egolf explaining the process:

"The request will come to HP and we'll fulfill the request vs. instantaneous fulfillment. Normal turnaround should be within 30-60 mins but, depending on when request is made, it could take UP TO 24 hrs."

Just to keep expectations in check.

Bill.

[MG]

On 27-1-2012 0:00, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Note that runes today are part of the Unicode standard. :-)
> So a web server on VMS can serve a webpage using the
> rune alphabet. If one want...

That's nice, I read that they finally got around to including the
Elder Futhark. ᚷᚱᚢᛏᛖᚾ ᚹᚨᚾ ᛗᚨᚱᚲᛟ ᚪᚢᛏ ᚾᛖᛞᛖᚱᛚᚨᚾᛞ:

- MG

[JF Mezei]

ss wrote:

>>
>> The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
>> http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist
>
> Ok Have submitted my request and got a confirmation mail for now.

Did you just get some text email, or did you get the licences ?


In other words, is this a placeholder page for now, or did they install
the software that Montagar had developped along with the database of
existing licenses and is fully functional ?

[JF Mezei]

BillPedersen wrote:
> You should note that the process is now "moderated". Here is a quote from John Egolf explaining the process:

Thanks. Does the web form explain this once you submit it ?



Do you know if Mr Egolf has access to the database of existing hobbyists
to validate decus numbers ? For defunct chapters, it is impossible to
varify a decus number, and in the case of the montagar system, once you
have succesfully registered licences, you could continue to renew
forever no matter if the chapter ceased to exist or not.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

JF Mezei wrote 2012-01-27 01:47:
> BillPedersen wrote:
>> You should note that the process is now "moderated". Here is a quote from John Egolf explaining the process:
>
>
> Thanks. Does the web form explain this once you submit it ?
>

Or maybe the confirmation mail explains it.
Anyone actualy *using* it would know, I guess.
Why don't you simply try it ?

>
>
> Do you know if Mr Egolf has access to the database of existing hobbyists
> to validate decus numbers ? For defunct chapters, it is impossible to
> varify a decus number, and in the case of the montagar system, once you
> have succesfully registered licences, you could continue to renew
> forever no matter if the chapter ceased to exist or not.

I used my old DECUS/Sweden number from the 80's which I have always
used on the Montagar systems also. No problem, no comment about that
and I got the PAKs.

[JF Mezei]

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

> Why don't you simply try it ?

In the past, premature renewall could fail beacause Motagar knew when
your currnet licences would expire. This is why I asked whether they
copied the database over or if they are starting anew.

I don't want to cause problems by renewing too early.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

OK, if it is *realy* important, ask them.

[joukj]

On 01/26/2012 12:49 PM, ss wrote:
> In article<260120121234172844%m...@thisis.invalid>, ss
> <m...@thisis.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article<c5748$4f212e9c$82a13c9d$45...@news1.tudelft.nl>, joukj
>> <jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is the licences you get comparable with the licences through
>>>> the Hobbyist program ? In particular compilers.
>>>>
>>>> Jan-Erik.
>>>
>>> As far as I know : yes
>>> Licenses are available for all three type of architectures.
>>> and it is free for all employees/students of any school/university.
>>
>> Do you know where one can find more info on this?
>>
> Sorry had overlooked it!
> The FAQ is here:
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/faq.html
>
> So apparently you can only get a license if your school/university is
> already registered with HP.

The web-form for registration is placed on the same page. The
school/university has to register every year.

[joukj]

On 01/26/2012 07:59 PM, Hans Vlems wrote:

> On Jan 26, 11:44 am, joukj<jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:
>> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:

>>> joukj wrote 2012-01-26 10:40:
>>>> Steven Schweda wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 25, 6:01 pm, ss<m...@thisis.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> Hobby Licenses will no longer be available through this site. Details
>>>>>> of the HP's delivery of licenses to Hobbyist Users is still under
>>>>>> development and I hope that they will have an announcement soon.
>>
>>>>> That sounds like the HP way. Disable the current working
>>>>> system, and then start work on its replacement. I expect
>>>>> this to turn out about as well as the switch-over to the new
>>>>> (shiny) user-forum garbage-ware. Probably won't be able to
>>>>> get new PAKs using a Web browser on a VMS system.
>>
>>>> Do not be too negative. I can confirm that HP already has the infra
>>>> structure/knowledge how to do this:
>>
>>>> Part of my machines run on a educational license which I have to renew
>>>> each
>>>> year. It takes me a few mouse clicks every year on a HP-website and
>>>> receive
>>>> the packs in my E-mail-box. The whole procedure takes far less than
>>>> one hour.
>>
>>>> Jouk

>>
>>> Is the licences you get comparable with the licences through
>>> the Hobbyist program ? In particular compilers.
>>
>>> Jan-Erik.
>>
>> As far as I know : yes
>> Licenses are available for all three type of architectures.
>> and it is free for all employees/students of any school/university.

>> The only restriction is that is not to be used for commercial activities.
>>
>> see for a product list:http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu/prodlist.html
>>
>> Jouk- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Jouk, since last year I'm a student again (TU/e, chemistry). Does that
> mean I could apply for this programme?
> If so, how/where do I start?
> Hans
Find someone in the university (It-department???) who fills in the
registration from on http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvmsedu. He/she gets a
school-id which can be shared with anyone in the university.
Request for licenses using this school-id should be made using a E-mail
adress containing the domain of the university.

This procedure should be repeated every year in september.

Jouk

(For the TU-Delft I am the contact person for the school-id)

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

If I'm not wrong, it is the *school* that applies for EDU licenses.

If you'd like to do it personaly, it is the *hobbyist* licences
you can apply for. And that has nothing to do with you beeing
a student or not. It's over 30 years since i was a student and I
have no problem applying for hobbyist licenses. :-)

Jan-Erik.

[IanMiller]

Announcement now posted at http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=12/01/27/8782690

For various reasons this change has been announced earlier than planned so things are not all in place. Hopefully web pages etc will get updated soon.

The changes being made are intended to make the programme better.

I would like to thank David Cathey for his invaluable work over the years with the OpenVMS Hobbyist programme.

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Offering download kits with binaries is a huge improvment as such!

[Joe Bloggs]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:40:17 +0100, joukj <jo...@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> wrote:

>Steven Schweda wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 6:01 pm, ss <m...@thisis.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> Hobby Licenses will no longer be available through this site. Details
>>> of the HP's delivery of licenses to Hobbyist Users is still under
>>> development and I hope that they will have an announcement soon.
>>
>> That sounds like the HP way. Disable the current working
>> system, and then start work on its replacement. I expect
>> this to turn out about as well as the switch-over to the new
>> (shiny) user-forum garbage-ware. Probably won't be able to
>> get new PAKs using a Web browser on a VMS system.
>
>Do not be too negative. I can confirm that HP already has the infra
>structure/knowledge how to do this:
>
>Part of my machines run on a educational license which I have to renew
>each year. It takes me a few mouse clicks every year on a HP-website and
> receive the packs in my E-mail-box. The whole procedure takes far less
>than one hour.
>
> Jouk

This sounds similar, if not identical, to the process of getting
(yearly) VMS development licenses via DSPP.

If so, I can alos confirm that the process works, and is
relatively painless...

[joukj]

Nope, read the license terms ....
The "school" registers and get the school-id, but the licenses are
personal and for personal use only.

[ss]

In article <4f21f178$0$2326$c3e8da3$4605...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> ss wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
> >> http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist
> >
> > Ok Have submitted my request and got a confirmation mail for now.
>
>
> Did you just get some text email, or did you get the licences ?

First you get a text mail with a copy of your registration data (name,
DECUS No., etc.).
My license (one attachment) arrived about half an hour later.

Btw. old PAK would have expired on 13-FEB-2012 the new one has
31-JAN-2013 as the termniation date.

>
>
> In other words, is this a placeholder page for now, or did they install
> the software that Montagar had developped along with the database of
> existing licenses and is fully functional ?

No. AFAICT it's fully functional.

HTH
Sascha

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

ss wrote 2012-01-27 13:41:
> In article<4f21f178$0$2326$c3e8da3$4605...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
> Mezei<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
>> ss wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> The new link for the Hobbyist Registration is:
>>>> http://www.openvms.org/hobbyist
>>>
>>> Ok Have submitted my request and got a confirmation mail for now.
>>
>>
>> Did you just get some text email, or did you get the licences ?
>
> First you get a text mail with a copy of your registration data (name,
> DECUS No., etc.).
> My license (one attachment) arrived about half an hour later.
>
> Btw. old PAK would have expired on 13-FEB-2012 the new one has
> 31-JAN-2013 as the termniation date.
>>
>>
>> In other words, is this a placeholder page for now,

No.

>> or did they install the software that Montagar had developped...

Probably not. Not important anyway.

>> along with the database of existing licenses...

It seems so.

>> and is fully functional ?

Also seems so.

[Paul Sture]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:55:33 -0600, Bob Koehler wrote:

>
> I've already seen evidence that they're keeping access up to the old
> system until the move over is accomplished, and they're adding
> downloads so you don't have to but a CD.
>
> I'll be trying to get my licenses renewed this week, and keeping an
> eye out for a chance to download more current software.

Downloads are an excellent way of putting VMS in front of a larger
audience.

--
Paul Sture

[Paul Sture]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:35:33 +0000, BRAD wrote:

> In article <jfr70b$mpj$1...@news.albasani.net>, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>>MG wrote 2012-01-26 09:53:
>>> On 26-1-2012 1:01, ss wrote:
>>>> Spotted this on http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ Not much information
>>>> right now but let's hope for the best! :-) Just thought to post it
>>>> here too. AFAICS it's bad news for those whose PAKs will - just as
>>>> mine - expire soon.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what to make of this. Like you, I keep on hoping for the
>>> best. (My PAKs will expire in mid-April.)
>>>
>>> - MG
>>
>>Argh !
>>Just saw that my lics expired 23-JAN-2012... And now what... ?
>
> "Groundhog Day" - just reset your system clock each day.
>
> : - )

Will it make me an accomplished pianist?

--
Paul Sture

[Michael Unger]

On 2012-01-27 00:12, "Jan-Erik Soderholm" wrote:

> Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote 2012-01-27 00:06:
>>

>> [...]

>>
>> Sorry, too late. Should be "run". Run (present and infinive), ran
>> (past), run (past participle---what we need here).
>
> What about "Which when executed gave:" :-)

If people are executed they usually don't run anymore ...

Michael

--
Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.

[Bob Koehler]

In article <4f21f178$0$2326$c3e8da3$4605...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
> Did you just get some text email, or did you get the licences ?
>
>
> In other words, is this a placeholder page for now, or did they install
> the software that Montagar had developped along with the database of
> existing licenses and is fully functional ?

I got licenses. More than I used to get. The authorization field
is based on a different pattern than the ones Montager had provided.
That's not exactly a big issue for the end user.

[Bob Koehler]

In article <4f226ab5$0$2217$c3e8da3$76a7...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
> In the past, premature renewall could fail beacause Motagar knew when
> your currnet licences would expire. This is why I asked whether they
> copied the database over or if they are starting anew.

In the past, trying to renew more than about a month ahead of time
was blocked, but renewing within about a month worked.

[Steven Schweda]

On Jan 27, 9:43 am, Michael Unger <spam.to.un...@spamgourmet.com>
wrote:

> If people are executed they usually don't run anymore ...

Strictly speaking, of course, people are not executed,
death sentences are executed on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_warrant

Sloppy usage of "execute" has become the norm now, which
leads to confusion when it's used in its original sense.

Similarly, in olden times, schools were said to graduate
students, not the other way around.

--------

> Downloads are an excellent way of putting VMS in front of a
> larger audience.

Patch access wouldn't hurt, either.

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 1/26/2012 1:16 PM, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>> A couple of months ago somebody posted a request
>> to justify the usefulness of the hobbyist program.
>> Maybe that was the writing on the wall ...
>
> Maybe they should stop screwing around with licenses that expire and just
> allow non-commerical use for free? What a concept...

1 year is actually not that long time.

And since VMS systems tend to work without any
work, then it is easy to forget to renew.

Arne

[Bob Eager]

It may be a manual system right now, but...

I applied about half an hour ago. Got an acknowledgement email
immediately, and an email containing a load of PAKs within 10 minutes.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 1/28/2012 7:34 PM, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 12:53:59 -0600, Bob Koehler wrote:
>
>> In article<4f21f178$0$2326$c3e8da3$4605...@news.astraweb.com>, JF
>> Mezei<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> writes:
>>>
>>> Did you just get some text email, or did you get the licences ?
>>>
>>>
>>> In other words, is this a placeholder page for now, or did they install
>>> the software that Montagar had developped along with the database of
>>> existing licenses and is fully functional ?
>>
>> I got licenses. More than I used to get. The authorization field is
>> based on a different pattern than the ones Montager had provided.
>> That's not exactly a big issue for the end user.
>
> It may be a manual system right now, but...
>
> I applied about half an hour ago. Got an acknowledgement email
> immediately, and an email containing a load of PAKs within 10 minutes.

It took about half a day for me.

But the process is definitely working.

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

Neither highend IBM stuff nor highend SUN stuff was cheap
either.

I am not sure price was the only factor.

Arne

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

(snip)

> It may be a manual system right now, but...

> I applied about half an hour ago. Got an acknowledgement email
> immediately, and an email containing a load of PAKs within 10 minutes.

I got mine pretty fast, too. Then when I had a question about it
this morning (Saturday), there was someone to reply!

-- glen

[Bob Eager]

Yes, it wasn't just the speed, it was the fact that it was a Saturday
(well, a Sunday here), about 0100 UTC...

Strangely, the email had UTC times on it...

[JF Mezei]

Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> But the process is definitely working.

And that is what is important. Whether it takes 10 minutes or 2 days, as
long as as the delay is known and consitent, then we know we can get the
PAKs and how early we need to submit the data.

The one piece of information still missing is whether we can order PAKs
"early" or if we still need to wait one month before expiry of previous
ones.

[Mike K.]

Now that the PAK issuance system seems to be up and running, I wonder
when the other parts of the new program such as kit downloads are
going to work. Also, I'm hoping that the kits will be offered in disk
images rather than as raw backup kits. I've had to install a few
components from downloaded backup savesets and it's a real pain to get
them into SIMH and set to be properly recognized.

Mike

[David Froble]

JF Mezei wrote:

> Steven Schweda wrote:
>
>> That sounds like the HP way. Disable the current working
>> system, and then start work on its replacement. I expect
>> this to turn out about as well as the switch-over to the new
>> (shiny) user-forum garbage-ware. Probably won't be able to
>> get new PAKs using a Web browser on a VMS system.
>

> My licenses are due for renewall late april/early may. My concern is
> that the new HP system won't be ready by then. And with Decus Canada no
> longer functional, if they don't like my original decus number (from the
> real decus days) which Montagar accepted, then what am I to do ?
>
> This is why finding a way to patch the LMF to accept expired licences
> should be a project that is undertaken now so that if HP doesn't come
> through with their system, hobbyists won't have to shut down their VMS
> system while waiting for HP's new system.

Well, there is the small matter of lawyers, and while HP seems unwilling to spend money on
VMS, they appear quite willing to spend large amounts of money on lawyers.

[VAXman-]

To paraphase Woody Allen...

Those who can, do!
Those who can't, try!
Those who don't try, litigate!.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

Well I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.