VMS-SIG Sweden at VSI office.

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

FYI.

(Might wrap...)

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027

/Jan-Erik

[Neil Rieck]

Would be a good excuse to visit Sweden.

Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux, MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

[Craig A. Berry]

On 3/8/18 6:24 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> FYI.
>>
>> (Might wrap...)
>>
>> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027
>>
>> /Jan-Erik
>
> Would be a good excuse to visit Sweden.
>
> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux, MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.

Not everyone considers Finland to be part of Scandinavia ;-).

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

It isn't.
Scandinavia: Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
Nordic: <Scandinavia> + Finland, Island, Greenland and Faroe islands.

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/8/2018 7:54 AM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> On 3/8/18 6:24 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm
>> wrote:
>>> FYI.
>>>
>>> (Might wrap...)
>>>
>>> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027
>>

>> Would be a good excuse to visit Sweden.
>>
>> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux,
>> MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>
> Not everyone considers Finland to be part of Scandinavia ;-).

To include Finland (and Iceland) use "Nordic countries".

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 03/08/2018 07:24 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-5, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> FYI.
>>
>> (Might wrap...)
>>
>> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027
>>
>> /Jan-Erik
>
> Would be a good excuse to visit Sweden.
>
> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux, MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>

MINIX was Tannenbaum and he is American, living in Holland. His
education was in the US.

Linux was a solution looking for a problem. Hype made it what it
is today, not technical superiority.

Don't know the background for MySQL or PHP but MariaDB exists
because of politics.

bill

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/8/2018 8:44 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux,
>> MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>>
>
> MINIX was Tannenbaum and he is American, living in Holland.  His
> education was in the US.

Yes. MINIX should not have made that list.

> Linux was a solution looking for a problem.  Hype made it what it
> is today, not technical superiority.

It is an observable fact that it is a widely used.

If someone think another OS is better for what Linux is used for
then they really should start a company competing with those
Linux using companies, because there must be a lot of money to be made.

> Don't know the background for MySQL or PHP but MariaDB exists
> because of politics.

MySQL is of Swedish (Axmark) and Finnish (Widenius) origin.

Widenius later started MariaDB.

PHP is Rasmus Lerdorf which is original from Denmark (Greenland),
but moved to Canada when he was a kid.

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

Note that Neil forgot a few.

C++ Bjarne Stroustrup is from Denmark.

TurboPascal/Delphi and C# Anders Hejlsberg is also from Denmark.

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 03/08/2018 09:06 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 3/8/2018 8:44 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux,
>>> MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>>>
>>
>> MINIX was Tannenbaum and he is American, living in Holland.  His
>> education was in the US.
>
> Yes. MINIX should not have made that list.
>
>> Linux was a solution looking for a problem.  Hype made it what it
>> is today, not technical superiority.
>
> It is an observable fact that it is a widely used.

So is Windows. Does that make it technically superior to anything?
Further, at the time it came about any notion that BSD was dead
for legal reasons was strictly a figment of some people's imagination.

>
> If someone think another OS is better for what Linux is used for
> then they really should start a company competing with those
> Linux using companies, because there must be a lot of money to be made.

Very true, but sadly the people involved have never shown any
interest in pushing it beyond the academic interest in operating
systems.

>
>> Don't know the background for MySQL or PHP but MariaDB exists
>> because of politics.
>
> MySQL is of Swedish (Axmark) and Finnish (Widenius) origin.
>
> Widenius later started MariaDB.

For political, not technical reasons.

>
> PHP is Rasmus Lerdorf which is original from Denmark (Greenland),
> but moved to Canada when he was a kid.
>

bill

[Bill Gunshannon]

From being the operative word here. Stroustrup was living in the
US and working for Bell Labs at the time he designed and implemented
C++.

bill

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <p7rg1h$1c73$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?=

<ar...@vajhoej.dk> writes:

> MySQL is of Swedish (Axmark) and Finnish (Widenius) origin.
>
> Widenius later started MariaDB.

One daughter is named Maria. And the other My. Right?

[Arne Vajhøj]

That is something he share with many of the other names mentioned.

Anders Hejlsberg also did most of his work in the US.

Linus moved to the US in 1997.

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

Since they still share most of the code then it is
obvious not for technical reasons.

If the disagreement with Oracle is considered political, then
that is certainly a big factor.

I will not rule out that there also has been a commercial
factor as well.

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

Are we seeing a trend here? :-)

bill

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

I couldn't see it stated explicitly, but maybe I msied it...
what is the official working language of the sessions?

[Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)]

In article <fgd0rn...@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon

<bill.gu...@gmail.com> writes:

> From being the operative word here. Stroustrup was living in the
> US and working for Bell Labs at the time he designed and implemented
> C++.

So he obviously understands the GOTO statement. :-)

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/8/2018 10:31 AM, johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:52:09 UTC, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> FYI.
>>
>> (Might wrap...)
>>
>> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/hp-connect-sweden-vms-sig-annual-meeting-tickets-42639545027
>

> I couldn't see it stated explicitly, but maybe I msied it...
> what is the official working language of the sessions?

I see John Reagan on the speaker list.

Unless he has besides Pascal, Macro-32 etc. (long list today) also
master Swedish then ...

:-)

Arne

[Arne Vajhøj]

I think so.

And there are more.

Lars Bak (Hotspot JVM, Chrome V8, Dart) is also Danish and
did spend more than a decade in the US. But he did return.

Arne

[John Reagan]

On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 10:46:43 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

My Swedish is limited to Google Translate and IKEA product names. I don't even own an ABBA album.

:)

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

It might very well be bilangual. As I remember from the session
last year (at the IKEA IT-HQ), the session by Johan Gedda was
in Swedish at least.

Doesn't really matters (for us) if it is English or Swedish,
it's more up the the speaker...

[DaveFroble]

So, Trump's wall is sort of late?

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/8/2018 1:37 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 03/08/2018 09:08 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> Note that Neil forgot a few.
>>>>
>>>> C++ Bjarne Stroustrup is from Denmark.
>>>
>>>  From being the operative word here.  Stroustrup was living in the
>>> US and working for Bell Labs at the time he designed and implemented
>>> C++.
>>
>> That is something he share with many of the other names mentioned.
>>
>> Anders Hejlsberg also did most of his work in the US.
>>
>> Linus moved to the US in 1997.
>
> So, Trump's wall is sort of late?

If the intention is to keep Danes out then it should
not be built along the border to Mexico, but instead
in the international arrival terminal in Newark in
New Jersey.

:-)

Arne

[Simon Clubley]

On 2018-03-08, Neil Rieck <n.r...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Would be a good excuse to visit Sweden.
>
> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux, MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>

Careful. :-)

That's a bit like saying that Scotland is a part of England...

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

[DaveFroble]

I was thinking about keeping Linux out ..

:-)

What, you think we got only one airport? What about ships? Canoes? Rafts?

Swimmers? :-)

[Bill Gunshannon]

And sneaking down from Canada in the back of some snowbirds RV.

bill

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/8/2018 4:38 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/8/2018 1:37 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2018 9:49 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>> On 03/08/2018 09:08 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> Note that Neil forgot a few.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C++ Bjarne Stroustrup is from Denmark.
>>>>>
>>>>>  From being the operative word here.  Stroustrup was living in the
>>>>> US and working for Bell Labs at the time he designed and implemented
>>>>> C++.
>>>>
>>>> That is something he share with many of the other names mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> Anders Hejlsberg also did most of his work in the US.
>>>>
>>>> Linus moved to the US in 1997.
>>>
>>> So, Trump's wall is sort of late?
>>
>> If the intention is to keep Danes out then it should
>> not be built along the border to Mexico, but instead
>> in the international arrival terminal in Newark in
>> New Jersey.
>>
>> :-)
>

> I was thinking about keeping Linux out ..
>
> :-)
>
> What, you think we got only one airport?  What about ships?  Canoes?
> Rafts?
>
> Swimmers?  :-)

Today Danes fly to the US. It is about a 1000 years since we sailed
to the US.

:-)

[yes - I know Leif Erikson was really Icelandic/Norwegian not Danish -
and he went to Canada no the US]

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

Actually, there is evidence that the Vikings may have traveled
as far across the US as Minnesota. Although I would expect they
did most of the trip by water, up the St. Lawrence (although I
doubt it had that name then :-) and through the Great Lakes.

bill

[Arne Vajhøj]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Runestone

?

Arne

[Bill Gunshannon]

I guess I am one of the few who still thinks it is real. :-)

But then, people who know me know what a fraud I think Columbus
is so I happily give credit to other explorers who may have been
here first.

bill

[Neil Rieck]

Thanks for setting me straight. I didn't know those kinds were from Scandinavian/Nordic countries.

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

[Neil Rieck]

There is a reason why I mentioned MINIX. First off, I knew it was from an American living and working (teaching) at VU University Amsterdam but I assumed "he had been drinking whatever is in the water up there"

:-)

Many people outside of academia may only be partly aware of these facts: all software engineering schools in the world had cheap-to-free access to Unix source code which included the kernel. During the American breakup of their "Bell System", AT&T copyrighted Unix calling it UNIX. They weren't certain if they would keep it or sell it but they did announce that the era of cheap-to-free access to the source code was coming to an end. So MINIX was created only as a teaching tool. The first version was released in 1987 but I'm not certain when Tanenbaum started work on it.

So it was in this era that Linus Torvalds wrote his own kernel starting in 1991.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux#/media/File:Unix_timeline.en.svg

Everyone here already knows how GNU had produced a totally rewritten version of everything found in Unix (to avoid copyright litigation) "except the kernel" so the two merged out of necessity.

###

I had direct (working) experience with both "BSD Unix" and "VMS" in the 1980s and can tell everyone here something they already know: The engineers at DEC had worked the all the kinks out of VMS long ago. Kinks that still exist in Unix/Linux today (mostly related to Virtual Memory).

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2018-03-09 kl. 21:48, skrev Neil Rieck:
> On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 9:06:44 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/8/2018 8:44 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux,
>>>> MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>>>>

To get back to the initial question, yes there are a few facts that
have made Sweden successful in some areas, in particular in IT.

One of the more importend things is that Sweden, in the 90s, had a
tax break to companies that gave employees home computers, so many
of those that are in there 40s today have grown up with computers
in their homes.

A couple of articles with some background:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/sweden-startups/541413/

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/how-stockholm-became-a-unicorn-factory/

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 3/9/2018 3:48 PM, Neil Rieck wrote:
> On Thursday, March 8, 2018 at 9:06:44 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 3/8/2018 8:44 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> Not sure what's in the Scandinavian water up there (MINIX, Linux,
>>>> MySQL, PHP, MariaDB) but you people rock.
>>>>
>>>
>>> MINIX was Tannenbaum and he is American, living in Holland.  His
>>> education was in the US.
>>
>> Yes. MINIX should not have made that list.

> There is a reason why I mentioned MINIX. First off, I knew it was
> from an American living and working (teaching) at VU University Amsterdam but
> I assumed "he had been drinking whatever is in the water up there"
>
> :-)

If you want to include Netherlands/Holland then you need to
broaden the scope even beyond Nordic countries. Like
norther end western Europe.

Arne