Discovering a Disk Volume Label?

[David Hoelzer]

For the life of me I can't remember or think of how to discover the name of an unmounted disk volume... Can anyone assist? I spent about 30 minutes googling and can't seem to find anything but references on how to change the name when you already know it. :)

Thanks!

[abrsvc]

Try

$MOUNT/OVER=ID

This should mount the disk if it is a valid volume or report an invalid "label" with what it sees. Dismount after to release it.

Dan

[Volker Halle]

$ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE device

Mount will print the Label, if the disk has one.

Volker.

[Bob Gezelter]

David,

As has been observed, MOUNT/OVERRIDE=ID will, as a side effect display the present volume label.

One can change the volume ID of a volume using the SET VOLUME/LABEL=x command (See the OpenVMS DCL Dictionary or the online HELP text for details).

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com

[Paul Sture]

On 2014-08-13, Volker Halle <volker...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE device
>
> Mount will print the Label, if the disk has one.

Although I am thinking of tapes here, I don't trust MOUNT/FOREIGN to return
the correct label 100% of the time. With tapes this behaviour is entirely
reproducible, though I no longer remember the exact incantations.

$ MOUNT /OVER=ID /NOWRITE device:

is the reliable method in my experience.

--
Online course tip: Do download the subtitles and text of videos, even if
you don't need them for comprehension. You can now locate a video via a
text search.

[Paul Sture]

On 2014-08-13, Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-08-13, Volker Halle <volker...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE device
>>
>> Mount will print the Label, if the disk has one.
>
> Although I am thinking of tapes here, I don't trust MOUNT/FOREIGN to return
> the correct label 100% of the time. With tapes this behaviour is entirely
> reproducible, though I no longer remember the exact incantations.
>
> $ MOUNT /OVER=ID /NOWRITE device:
>
> is the reliable method in my experience.

Don't forget that afterwards you want to use the /NOUNLOAD qualifier to
avoid the disk spinning down:

$ DISMOUNT /NOUNLOAD device:

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Paul Sture wrote 2014-08-13 19:24:
> On 2014-08-13, Paul Sture <nos...@sture.ch> wrote:
>> On 2014-08-13, Volker Halle <volker...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> $ MOUNT/FOREIGN/NOWRITE device
>>>
>>> Mount will print the Label, if the disk has one.
>>
>> Although I am thinking of tapes here, I don't trust MOUNT/FOREIGN to return
>> the correct label 100% of the time. With tapes this behaviour is entirely
>> reproducible, though I no longer remember the exact incantations.
>>
>> $ MOUNT /OVER=ID /NOWRITE device:
>>
>> is the reliable method in my experience.
>
> Don't forget that afterwards you want to use the /NOUNLOAD qualifier to
> avoid the disk spinning down:
>
> $ DISMOUNT /NOUNLOAD device:
>
>

Yes, with RL02's... :-)

How rellevant is *that* with todays disks ?

(Tapes is another story, driving over to the office
just top open/close the TK50 handle... :-) )

Jan-Erik.

[Johnny Billquist]

Nitpick: not with RL02. The RL02 cannot be spun down from software.
However, all RA disks can... I can't recall any other disk type which
supported software controlled spin down. Maybe someone else do? (And I
don't even want to hear about the RC25.)

Johnny

[johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk]

To various suggestions to date: do these work for non-priv users?

If not, what privs are necessary for particular variants?

And to the OP: are you expecting this to work from a non-priv account?

[Yes I'm being lazy, I suspect I could RTFM and find out...]

[David Froble]

johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> To various suggestions to date: do these work for non-priv users?
>
> If not, what privs are necessary for particular variants?
>
> And to the OP: are you expecting this to work from a non-priv account?
>
> [Yes I'm being lazy, I suspect I could RTFM and find out...]

Also lazy, but, I'm rather sure that a non-prived user can mount his own
private disk. Not /SYSTEM. What I'm not sure of is ownership of disks,
and if it matters to the mount command.

[David Hoelzer]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 6:52:08 AM UTC-4, David Hoelzer wrote:
> For the life of me I can't remember or think of how to discover the name of an unmounted disk volume... Can anyone assist? I spent about 30 minutes googling and can't seem to find anything but references on how to change the name when you already know it. :)
>
>
>
> Thanks!

Thank you for all of the wonderful answers!

[Johnny Billquist]

Indeed he can, as long as he knows the label id of his own private
disk... :-)

/OVER=ID will require some additional privilege. I have no idea exactly
which ones. Physical I/O perhaps. Operator might do. Maybe something
else that I'm not recalling right now.

Johnny

[glen herrmannsfeldt]

I think the last time I needed this (for mounting a CD) I had
a linux system nearby, and the strings command finds printable
strings in a file (or character device).

Wasn't hard to figure it out.

-- glen

[terry+go...@tmk.com]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:24:55 PM UTC-4, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> I think the last time I needed this (for mounting a CD) I had
> a linux system nearby, and the strings command finds printable
> strings in a file (or character device).

I don't know about Linux, but on FreeBSD (and, presumably, the other *BSD's), the file command will tell you the structure level and volume label:

(0:5) test2:/AlphaVM# file system_disk_240.dd
system_disk_240.dd: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 5 (ODS-5 OpenVMS file system), volume label is 'ALPHASYS '

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Didn't /ove=id work?

[George Cornelius]

On 08/13/2014 12:34 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> Nitpick: not with RL02. The RL02 cannot be spun down from software. However,
>all RA disks can... I can't recall any other disk type which supported software
> controlled spin down. Maybe someone else do? (And I don't even want to hear
> about the RC25.)

I assume you are excluding SCSI drives. I have a 3100/30 VAXstation
gathering dust in my office because I understand that if you enter
its diagnostic mode (jumper two pins of the mRJ11 before power up)
you can set RZ23 and perhaps other ancient DEC drives for automatic
spin up versus spin up by command, allowing them to be used on
Windows based PC's.

George

> Johnny

--
Can the spam

[George Cornelius]

On 08/14/2014 02:40 AM, terry+go...@tmk.com wrote:

> I don't know about Linux, but on FreeBSD (and, presumably, the
> other *BSD's), the file command will tell you the structure level
> and volume label:
>
> (0:5) test2:/AlphaVM# file system_disk_240.dd
> system_disk_240.dd: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 5 (ODS-5 OpenVMS
> file system), volume label is 'ALPHASYS '

Seems work on recent versions of Debian, at least:

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ file dk.img
dk.img: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2); VAX/VMS or OpenVMS file
system; volume label is 'LPSDISK '

[last line wrapped to avoid aioe's nazification to .le. 79 chars]

Did not work on Debian sarge.

--
Can the spam

[Johnny Billquist]

I didn't explicitly exclude SCSI. I know that they can spin up on
command. The question is: can they spin down? I actually don't know the
answer to that one. But it's good that your brought them up, because for
some reason they had totally slipped below my radar (weird, isn't it?).

Johnny

[Hans Vlems]

Op woensdag 13 augustus 2014 19:34:29 UTC+2 schreef Johnny Billquist:

RM drives?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2014-08-16 10:58, Hans Vlems wrote:
> Op woensdag 13 augustus 2014 19:34:29 UTC+2 schreef Johnny Billquist:

>> Nitpick: not with RL02. The RL02 cannot be spun down from software.
>>
>> However, all RA disks can... I can't recall any other disk type which
>>
>> supported software controlled spin down. Maybe someone else do? (And I
>>
>> don't even want to hear about the RC25.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnny
>
> RM drives?

I've used RM02 and RM03, and they cannot, as far as I can remember. I
haven't really played with RM05 or RM80.

Hmm, since the RM80 is actually pretty much the same drive as the RA80,
maybe that one could... Interesting thought...

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[Paul Sture]

Another lazy one here (well it is Sunday), though I can confirm that the
VAX V7.3 help for MOUNT addresses tape protection but is lacking details
of disk protection.

For /GROUP or /SYSTEM you also need GRPNAM or SYSNAM privileges
respectively to create the associated logical names for the disk.

Mounting with write means you either need volume write access (where
standard device ownership settings apply) or VOLPRO. As expected for an
operation traditionally done by operators OPER comes into the mix. LOG_IO
and/or PHYS_IO can be required somewhere in here, but I might be thinking
of INITIALIZE and disks you don't have write access to.

--
"God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
"God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the dice at every possible
opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

[Paul Sture]

On what looks to be a disk initialized with /SYSTEM (i.e. a standard disk,
owner = SYSTEM):

Owner UIC [SYSTEM]
Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W

Here, the only privilege required to mount the disk /OVER=ID/NOWRITE
is SYSPRV. Though some other privilege might be sufficient, I didn't
find it in a brief test. OPER alone wasn't sufficient.

[Paul Sture]

Nice tip Terry. This one should be added to the documentation for the
various emulators.

Example output on OS X (manually wrapped for Usenet):

simh$ file data/*
data/dua0.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
system), volume label is 'VMS073 '
data/dua2.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
system), volume label is 'DATA01 '
data/dud0.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
system), volume label is 'FREEWARE '
data/fw1.iso: ISO 9660 CD-ROM filesystem data 'fw1 '

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2014-08-17 13:05, Paul Sture wrote:
> On 2014-08-14, terry+go...@tmk.com <terry+go...@tmk.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 8:24:55 PM UTC-4, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>>> I think the last time I needed this (for mounting a CD) I had
>>> a linux system nearby, and the strings command finds printable
>>> strings in a file (or character device).
>>
>> I don't know about Linux, but on FreeBSD (and, presumably, the other
>> *BSD's), the file command will tell you the structure level and volume
>> label:
>>>
>> (0:5) test2:/AlphaVM# file system_disk_240.dd system_disk_240.dd:
>> Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 5 (ODS-5 OpenVMS file system), volume
>> label is 'ALPHASYS '
>
> Nice tip Terry. This one should be added to the documentation for the
> various emulators.
>
> Example output on OS X (manually wrapped for Usenet):
>
> simh$ file data/*
> data/dua0.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
> system), volume label is 'VMS073 '
> data/dua2.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
> system), volume label is 'DATA01 '
> data/dud0.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2 OpenVMS file
> system), volume label is 'FREEWARE '
> data/fw1.iso: ISO 9660 CD-ROM filesystem data 'fw1 '

Sadly enough, the files database do not know about ODS-1 volumes. :-(
Oh well, I guess I can fix that. I just needs to figure out who manages
the central repository for the files database.

[Johnny Billquist]

Found the responsible person, and sent in an update. My system now
recognize ODS-1 filesystems as well, and hopefully soon every one else
will too... :-)

iMac:share/file% file ~/pdp11/rsx/sys.dsk
/Users/bqt/pdp11/rsx/sys.dsk: Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 1 (ODS-1
RSX-11 file system), volume label is 'RSX11MPBL87 '

[William Pechter]

In article <lsok4r$1uh$2...@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>,

IIRC the RP04/RP05/RP06 could do a spin down on software command.
If it's not true I blame the 11/780 exhaust fans from destroying my
hearing and my brains back in the '80's.

Just did a google search in elinks (not running X at the moment) and it
pulled up the sg_start command under Ubuntu which mentions both a scsi
start and scsi stop commands.

I remember the walk to the VAX to reload the TU77's after a mistake...
don't use the rewind and offline stuff when you just want rewind.
125 ips and unload can happen in the blink of a carriage return.

Looks like they're both valid.

Bill


SG_START(8) SG_3 UTILS SG_START(8)
-



NAME
sg_start - send SCSI START STOP UNIT command to start, stop, load
or - eject medium

SYNOPSIS
sg_start [0] [1] [--eject] [--help] [--fl=FL] [--immed] [--load]
[--loej] [--mod=PC MOD] [--noflush] [--pc=PC] [--start] [--stop]
[--verbose] [--version] DEVICE

sg_start [--eject] [--fl=FL] [-i] [--imm=0|1] [--load] [--loej]
[--mod=PC MOD] [--noflush] [--pc=PC] [--start] [--stop] [-v] [-V] [0|1]
DEVICE
------

DESCRIPTION
sg_start sends a SCSI START STOP UNIT command to the DEVICE with the
selected options. The most used options are --stop to spin down a disk
and --start to spin up a disk. Using --start on a disk that is already
spinning is harmless. There is also finer grain control with "power
condition": active, idle or standby. This is set with the --pc=PC
option. In some contexts the "stop" state can be considered an addi-
tional power condition.

Devices that contain removable media such as cd/dvds can use the --loej
option to load the medium when used in conjunction with --start (i.e.
load medium then spin up). Alternatively --loej may be used to eject
the medium when used in conjunction with --stop (i.e. spin down then
eject medium). More simply, the loading or ejecting of a removable
medium can be requested with the --load or --eject’ option.

If no option or argument is given then a --start is assumed; as the
utility’s name suggests.

This utility supports two command line syntaxes, the preferred one is
shown first in the synopsis and explained in this section. A later sec-
tion on the old command line syntax outlines the second group of
options.

OPTIONS
Arguments to long options are mandatory for short options as well.

0 same action as --stop.
1 same action as --start.
-e, --eject
stop the medium and eject it from the drive. Only appropriate
for a device with removable medium. Might be ignored (pre-
vented), see below.
-h, --help
print out the usage message then exit.
-f, --fl=FL
--
sets the format layer number for the disc to "jump" to (defined
in MMC-5). Values of FL can be 0 to 3. When this option is cho-
sen, the FL, LoEj and Start bits are set in the cdb as required
by MMC-5; thus the user does not need to set the --start and/or
--load options.
-i, --immed
sets the IMM bit on the START STOP UNIT command so this utility
will return immediately and not wait for the media to complete
the requested action. The default is to wait until the media to
complete the requested action before returning.
-l, --load
load the medium in the drive and start it. Only appropriate for
a removable medium.
-L, --loej
sets the LOEJ bit on the START STOP UNIT command. This loads the
media when the unit is started or eject it when the unit is
stopped (i.e. works in conjunction with START bit in cdb). This
option is ignored if ’pc > 0’.
Default is off (i.e. don’t attempt to load or eject
media).
If a start/start indication is not given (i.e. neither --start
nor --stop) and this option is given then a load and start
action is assumed.
-m, --mod=PC MOD
where PC MOD is the ’power condition modifier’ value. 0 to 15
(inclusive) are valid and 0 is the default. This ’power condi-
tion modifier’ field in the cdb was added after sbc3r13.
-n, --noflush
do not perform a flush to media (e.g. like SYNCHRONIZE CACHE
does) before a variant of this utility that limits access to the
media. Using the --stop option is an example of something that
limits access to the media. This ’noflush’ field in the cdb was
added after sbc3r13.
-O, --old
switch to older style options.
-p, --pc=PC
where PC is the ’power conditions’ value. 0 to 15 (inclusive)
are valid. Default value is 0. When ’--pc=0’ then --eject,
--load, --loej, --start and --stop are active. Some common val-
ues are 1 for the "active" power condition (SBC); 2 for the idle
power condition; 3 for the standby power condition; 5 for sleep
power condition (MMC); 7 for LU CONTROL (SBC), 0xa (decimal 10)
for FORCE IDLE 0 (SBC) and 0xb (decimal 11) for FORCE STANDBY 0
(SBC). See recent SBC-3, MMC-5 and SAS drafts at www.t10.org for
more information.
-s, --start
start (spin-up) the device. This sets the START bit in the cdb.
Using this option on an already started device is harmless. In
the absence of other options, this option defaults (i.e. set the
START cdb bit).
-S, --stop
stop (spin-down) the device. This clears the START bit in the
cdb.
-v, --verbose
increase the level of verbosity. Can be used multiple times.
-V, --version
print out version string then exit.

NOTES
To avoid confusion, only one of 0, 1 --eject, --load, --start and
--stop should be given.

The SCSI TEST UNIT READY command can be used to find out whether a
device is ready to transfer data. If rotating media is stopped or still
coming up to speed, then the TEST UNIT READY command will yield a "not
ready" sense key and an more informative additional sense code. See the
sg turs utility.

In the 2.4 series of Linux kernels the DEVICE must be a SCSI generic
(sg) device. In the 2.6 series block devices (e.g. SCSI disks and DVD
drives) can also be specified. For example "sg_start 0 /dev/sda" will
work in the 2.6 series kernels.

EXIT STATUS
The exit status of sg_start is 0 when it is successful. Otherwise see
the sg3 utils(8) man page.

<snipped the -old versions of the command that are still supported...>

sg3 utils-1.26 March 2008 SG START(8)
- -


--
--
Digital had it then. Don't you wish you could buy it now!
pechter-at-pechter.dyndns.org http://xkcd.com/705/

[William Pechter]

In article <lsq5m8$qqu$1...@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>,

Source is supposed to be located at ftp.astron.com in the directory
/pub/file/file-X.YZ.tar.gz

A quick grep of @ through the manual gives a couple of contributors:

<i...@darwinsys.com> without looking at anybody else鈥檚 source code.
Guy Harris, g...@netapp.com, made many changes from 1993 to the present.
Zoulas (chri...@astron.com).
Altered by Chris Lowth, ch...@lowth.com, 2000:
Handle the - -i i option to
Altered by Eric Fischer (e...@pobox.com), July, 2000, to identify charac-
Altered by Reuben Thomas (r...@sc3d.org), 2007 to 2008, to improve MIME


Bill

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2014-08-30 00:58, William Pechter wrote:
> In article <lsok4r$1uh$2...@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>,
> Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
>> On 2014-08-16 10:58, Hans Vlems wrote:
>>> Op woensdag 13 augustus 2014 19:34:29 UTC+2 schreef Johnny Billquist:
>>>> Nitpick: not with RL02. The RL02 cannot be spun down from software.
>>>>
>>>> However, all RA disks can... I can't recall any other disk type which
>>>>
>>>> supported software controlled spin down. Maybe someone else do? (And I
>>>>
>>>> don't even want to hear about the RC25.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Johnny
>>>
>>> RM drives?
>>
>> I've used RM02 and RM03, and they cannot, as far as I can remember. I
>> haven't really played with RM05 or RM80.
>>
>> Hmm, since the RM80 is actually pretty much the same drive as the RA80,
>> maybe that one could... Interesting thought...
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> --
>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> || on a psychedelic trip
>> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> IIRC the RP04/RP05/RP06 could do a spin down on software command.
> If it's not true I blame the 11/780 exhaust fans from destroying my
> hearing and my brains back in the '80's.

Pretty sure they can not. I still have access to a couple of RP06, so I
guess I could test this, but they haven't been spun up in 15 years now...

> Just did a google search in elinks (not running X at the moment) and it
> pulled up the sg_start command under Ubuntu which mentions both a scsi
> start and scsi stop commands.

Yeah, SCSI definitely have spinning up atleast. I'm not surprised to
hear it has spindown as well.

> I remember the walk to the VAX to reload the TU77's after a mistake...
> don't use the rewind and offline stuff when you just want rewind.
> 125 ips and unload can happen in the blink of a carriage return.

Tapes are another story. Of course you need to be able to unload them... :-)

If you mount a tape using the MTAACP under RSX, the default is to unload
when you dismount the tape... Need to remember those switches to
dismount. :-)

[Johnny Billquist]

> <i...@darwinsys.com> without looking at anybody else’s source code.

> Guy Harris, g...@netapp.com, made many changes from 1993 to the present.
> Zoulas (chri...@astron.com).
> Altered by Chris Lowth, ch...@lowth.com, 2000:
> Handle the - -i i option to
> Altered by Eric Fischer (e...@pobox.com), July, 2000, to identify charac-
> Altered by Reuben Thomas (r...@sc3d.org), 2007 to 2008, to improve MIME

Thanks. Already sent in an update, and it's in the central repository.
Now it's just a propagation delay away from everyone. :-)

[Peyre]

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:52:08 AM UTC+1, David Hoelzer wrote:
> For the life of me I can't remember or think of how to discover the name of an unmounted disk volume... Can anyone assist? I spent about 30 minutes googling and can't seem to find anything but references on how to change the name when you already know it. :)
>
>
>

> Thanks!

a bit late but what I usually use when I don't know/remember the label is:

$ mount/noass <device-name> foobar

FWIW

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <3a9947ef-5ad1-4ebc...@googlegroups.com>,

Peyre <tests...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:52:08 AM UTC+1, David Hoelzer wrote:

> > For the life of me I can't remember or think of how to discover the name =
> of an unmounted disk volume... Can anyone assist? I spent about 30 minute=
> s googling and can't seem to find anything but references on how to change =

> the name when you already know it. :)

> >=20
> >=20
> >=20

> > Thanks!
>
> a bit late but what I usually use when I don't know/remember the label is:
>
> $ mount/noass <device-name> foobar

MOUNT/OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION

[Peyre]

On Thursday, October 9, 2014 7:33:16 PM UTC+2, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> In article <3a9947ef-5ad1-4ebc...@googlegroups.com>,

> Peyre <...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:52:08 AM UTC+1, David Hoelzer wrote:
>
> > > For the life of me I can't remember or think of how to discover the name =
> > of an unmounted disk volume... Can anyone assist? I spent about 30 minute=
> > s googling and can't seem to find anything but references on how to change =
>
> > the name when you already know it. :)
>

> > > Thanks!
> >
>
> > a bit late but what I usually use when I don't know/remember the label is:
>
> > $ mount/noass <device-name> foobar
>
> MOUNT/OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION

yes, of course, but the OP only asked how to discover the name of the volume, not to mount it. which is a HUGE side effect... :)

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <f0a6dfa5-6398-4cdf...@googlegroups.com>,

Peyre <pierr...@gmail.com> writes:

> > MOUNT/OVERRIDE=IDENTIFICATION
>
> yes, of course, but the OP only asked how to discover the name of the volume, not to mount it. which is a HUGE side effect... :)

This is incompatible with /GROUP or /SYSTEM. Add /READ_ONLY to be safe.

What harm could it do?

[Peyre]

On Thursday, 9 October 2014 19:54:33 UTC+1, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
> In article <f0a6dfa5-6398-4cdf...@googlegroups.com>,
[...]

> This is incompatible with /GROUP or /SYSTEM. Add /READ_ONLY to be safe.

/READ_ONLY ?

[Stephen Hoffman]

/NOWRITE


--
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC

[VAXman-]

Think /NOWRITE ;)

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

[Phillip Helbig---undress to reply]

In article <a4acc304-9846-4bcf...@googlegroups.com>,
Peyre <tests...@gmail.com> writes:

Sorry, /NOWRITE.