Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC
Atlant Schmidt
paper "Organizational Leadership and Shame" and I read the section
about the decline and fall of Digital Equipment Corporation. The full
paper is at:
http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm
I wrote to the author with the comments I've included below. He
replied
telling me that he is actually about to update the paper and would
welcome
further anecdotes. I knew right where to turn... :-)
If you'd like to comment to the author (adding stories or just saying
"That Schmidt guy is clearly full of it!"), please reply here but also
copy the author (as listed in the paper).
Atlant
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
James:
I just happened upon your paper "Organizational Leadership and Shame"
and read the section about Digital Equipment Corporation.
I was amused by your comments about Bob Palmer and his relationship
with the employees:
..."His relationship with employees was marked by distance
and the apparent need to differentiate himself from his
employees". ...
"GQ Bob" was *NEVER* one of us, and he never wanted to be one
of us. (I say this as someone who worked at Digital for 24+
years before finally giving up). Let me tell you a triad of
interlocking stories:
I worked for a number of years in "The Mill", the ancestral
home of Digital Equipment Corporation. Each day, I'd walk up
the hill from the lower Thompson Street parking lot and into
the Thompson Street lobby, past the very-near-to-the-door visitor
parking area ("Blue Pass Required!"). Each day, I'd see a white
Porsche 911 parked in visitor parking. After months of this, my
interest had been piqued, so I asked Security who was the visitor
that parked their Porsche here day after day. "Oh, that's no
visitor; that's Bob Palmer's car. He's VP of manufacturing."
"Isn't that *VISITORS ONLY* parking?" I asked?" I just got a
shrug back. So I figured out where his office was in the Mill
and took a walk down there. "Palatial" is the word that came
to my mind; with huge office areas and practically no people.
I formed my opinion of Bob Palmer that day, and it never changed
the rest of the years I was at Digital.
Bob's mini-palace was in sharp contrast to Ken Olsen's office
area. While nicely appointed, it wasn't much different in character
than any of the other areas of the Mill; nicer than some, rattier
than others (Ken was, after all, the original Digital "Mill Rat").
And yes, Ken had a private parking space near his office. It was
our *ONE* officially-designated space in the whole company. But
it was okay -- he built the company; he deserved it. And it gave
us a way to keep tabs on him -- If the brown Pinto was parked
there, he was in. (Ken was on the Board of Ford at the time.
They wanted to give him a fancy Lincoln, but he chose a car
more in keeping with the majority of Ford's customers. Later,
the Pinto gave way to an Escort.)
The Mill was great space. Centraly located in beautiful downtown
Maynard, it had plenty of amenities: easy lunchtime access to
lots of shops and restaurants, plenty of light, and falling
lanolin in the summer (although that decreased year by year,
replaced by the "Black Beauty" sandblasting grit used to re-furb
area after area of the Mill). The Mill was a great place to work,
and Ken used to like to brag about how inexpensive it was per
square foot. Something must have happened, though, the moment
Palmer took over. Palmer moved out to a building called MSO2
where he built an even more-palatial palace of an office, complete
with a private entrance for his worshipfulness. And the memos
started circulating talking about how hideously expensive the
Mill space was. (Sure. The mortgage was paid-off years ago. The
taxes were low. The building had been cost-effective enough for
a hundred years. But suddenly, it was too expensive.) So out went
the Mill, tossed away with so much of Digital such as our data
base division, our storage division, our semiconductor division,
etc. The Mill's clock tower was, after all, only our corporate
symbol. But GQ Bob hated it, along with any other signs of the
peasants, so it had to go.
Palmer *NEVER* understood the value contained in DEC. You're right:
It had the *WORLD'S FASTEST MICROPROCESSOR* for many years
running. It had VMS, which along with IBM's MVS was certainly one of
the world's top two server operating systems. It had a wonderful
version of Unix. And Palmer couldn't succeed with all these
attributes and, in fact, degraded them and eventually threw them
all away for cheap to his Texas buddies at Compaq. He ran Mostek
into the ground and he did the same for Digital.
He was *NEVER* one of us, and was damned proud of it!
I finally threw in the towel in April of 2000 (during Compaq's
reign), and came to work for a company that still resembles the
old, succesful Digital. Started by peers of Ken Olsen, there are
no palaces here and no fancy headquarters buildings with private
entrances! Just lots of good people and a CEO that takes the
elevator with us and goes to sit in a cube the same size as
everyone's. Oddly enough, there are quite a few ex-Digits, too.
Atlant G. Schmidt
JF Mezei
>
> I little while ago, a web search I was doing happened across the
> paper "Organizational Leadership and Shame" and I read the section
> about the decline and fall of Digital Equipment Corporation. The full
> paper is at:
>
> http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm
Thank you very much for your effort and the text.
Didier Morandi
>
> http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm
../..
After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of large financial
loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Board fired
Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer.
../..
Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did not want
to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We will sell
Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true but not
enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was just too
complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to market (remember the
article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). The PC350/380 has
been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed too.
There may be other reasons but I do not know them.
They are Board's friends who have invented than Ken was fired for "large
financial loses".
On the parking issue.
One day around the 1980' Ken visited the Belgium HQ. He noticed a car park place
close to the main entrance labelled "Director" (or HQ manager, I do not
remember). He said "This is not DIGITAL spirit, please remove".
I posted this story in an internal DEC forum (formerly HUMAN::DIGITAL for those
who wish to find the original post). Someone replied to the post saying that
this was an incorrect answer as KO has a personal car park place. During a visit
to the Mill, I went to see KO's car park place. I did find an anonymous
delimited area but no label of any sort.
D.
Bill Todd
"Didier Morandi" <Didier....@Free.fr> wrote in message
news:3CD962A4...@Free.fr...
> Atlant Schmidt wrote:
> >
> > http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm
>
> ../..
> After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of large
financial
> loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Board
fired
> Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer.
> ../..
>
> Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did not
want
> to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We will
sell
> Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true but
not
> enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was just
too
> complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to market
(remember the
> article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). The PC350/380
has
> been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed
too.
> There may be other reasons but I do not know them.
You don't seem to know much about what you were talking about above, either.
This has not been a good day for you, Didier.
- bill
Atlant Schmidt
> During a visit to the Mill, I went to see KO's car park place.
> I did find an anonymous delimited area but no label of any sort.
Ken's spot was on the corner of building 10 and was marked
"Company Vehicle".
Atlant
Bob Ceculski
exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a
Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all
the little Alpha - VMS secrets while slowly destroying
Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,
Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms to
hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms
website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty
much sums it up ...
Bob Ceculski
why don't you call him an imbicile or an idioit like you do me?
at least my belief that EV8 will live in itanium is debatable ...
Didier Morandi
>
../..
> > You don't seem to know much about what you were talking about above, either.
> > This has not been a good day for you, Didier.
> >
> > - bill
>
> why don't you call him an imbicile or an idioit like you do me?
> at least my belief that EV8 will live in itanium is debatable ...
Bob, remember, we are playing here, to forget about our (non)future.
D.
Fred Kleinsorge
Didier Morandi wrote in message <3CD962A4...@Free.fr>...
>Atlant Schmidt wrote:
>>
>> http://www.sba.oakland.edu/ispso/html/2000Symposium/Hunt2000.htm
>
>../..
>After almost thirty years at the helm of Digital, in the face of large
financial
>loses in a company used to showing consistent profitability, the Board
fired
>Olsen and put in his place Robert Palmer.
>../..
>
>Ken has been fired because he didn't want to "go UNIX" and he also did not
want
>to produce low quality (and less expensive) PCs. His spirit was "We will
sell
>Rainbows because they are the best PCs in the world" and this was true but
not
>enough. The Rainbow has been the Rolls-Royce of the PCs but it was just too
>complete and too expensive. This is to me why it failed to market (remember
the
>article "There is no more gold at the end of the Rainbow"). The PC350/380
has
>been a second try, but as it was not as good as the Rainbow, it failed too.
>There may be other reasons but I do not know them.
>
>They are Board's friends who have invented than Ken was fired for "large
>financial loses".
>
What Ken said to me, was that he did not believe that firing 50,000+ people
would solve the companies problems, and that he wouldn't do it. Several
executives, led by BP convinced the board that it was the solution, and they
could carry it out. Just that simple.
Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy
Bob Ceculski wrote:
If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to
Solaris Affinity Program as well.
Regards
Andrew Harrison
Terry C. Shannon
"Bob Ceculski" <b...@instantwhip.com> wrote in message
news:d7791aa1.02050...@posting.google.com...
Most anything is open to debate. I wish I could be called an imbecile and
idiot like GQ Bob. I have been called worse, and I would welcome such an
appellation (I am not politically correct, and I do not ascribe to the
"hurtful" codswallop) providing that I got the Golden Parachute that Palmer
got. Wouldn't mind the seat (and the perks) on the AMD Board.
Plus Bob's Porsche Turbo Carerra IV is a nice ride. And he does have plenty
of nice suits.
Terry C. Shannon
news:<3CD91F88...@mindspring.com>...
>
> exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a
> Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all
> the little Alpha - VMS secrets
Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks would
be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.
while slowly destroying
> Digital ... this just confirms it ... and the next Palmer,
> Scott Stallard at hp is starting this again with a vms to
> hp ux affinity program ... read the pdf at the openvms
> website, the Q/A for vms at the bottom ... that pretty
> much sums it up ...
I seemed to miss the statement that Mister Stallard is a crony of Bill Gates
and Andy Grove AND the Space Alien that we read about every week in the
Weekly World News. Perhaps my browser suppressed this smoking evidence.
>
> http://www.compaq.com/hps/download/5_6_hp_newsletter.pdf
Terry C. Shannon
"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"
<andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message
news:abe7qf$90e$1...@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...
I would expect nothing less of a company that knows how to market and how to
capitalize on opportunities.
JF Mezei
> If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to
> Solaris Affinity Program as well.
Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would a
local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ?
(not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools
etc) ?
Or is there someone at Sun headquarters who could travel for this ?
Bob Ceculski
that is my opinion, take it or leave it for what it's worth ...
however, I think the outcomes of DEC and Q and what we are
hearing makes it obvious ...
Bob Ceculski
> news:d7791aa1.02050...@posting.google.com...
> > Atlant Schmidt <atlant...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:<3CD91F88...@mindspring.com>...
> >
> > exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a
> > Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all
> > the little Alpha - VMS secrets
>
> Nice assertion. Now let's see some concrete evidence. Cancelled checks would
> be nice. Other forms of demonstrable evidence would be nice, too.
>
Terry, either Palmer, Capellas and the rest were either on the take
or they are complete morons ... which is it?
early 90's ... Bill Gates/Dave Cutler caught w/dec mica code/comments
in NT, the result, the first 64 bit windoze on Alpha?
right, where is it?
mid 90's ... Intel caught w/Alpha logic in Itanium, the result, buy
a plant and make Alphas for the next 10-15 years? are
they still making them? Yes, but w/the name Itanium 2!
late 90's ... NT affinity ... throw away a 4 billion dollar a year
vms business for high volume, no profit pc's? that was
sure a winner!
early 2000's ... trash Alpha EV8, which put on top of EV7 bandwidth
would have been untouchable ... canned, and on top
of that, we might as well give away Alpha secrets
and engineers to Intel ...
this is either "sell out" or "stupidity" ... which one Terry?
Terry C. Shannon
Unless, of course, HPQ profited from the mistakes of the fathers, and it's a
bit early to make that assertion. We'll see, I guess.
Nic Clews
I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equal
'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target
source platform.
--
Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences
nclews at csc dot com
JF Mezei
> I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equal
> 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target
> source platform.
The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at a
time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX is
commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, I
think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.
Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy
JF Mezei wrote:
> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:
>
>>If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to
>>Solaris Affinity Program as well.
>>
>
> Andrew, if one wanted to make some DECUS presentation to local folks, would a
> local SUN office be able to provide technical information on such program ?
> (not a sales pitch, but a real technical presentation of the program tools
> etc) ?
>
Yes this is the agenda for a TOI we are holding on
the subject.
This TOI covers the methodologies and techniques for migrating customers
from VMS/Alpha to Solaris.
Topics covered
portable C++ implementation of the VMS system calls
programming language conversion tools for
-Fortran, Pascal, ADA, PL/I etc to C++ or C
-Database conversion to Oracle database
-web enabling of legacy applications
-Pathworks for Macintosh and VAXft migration services
-TP monitors and Screen handling,
-design and maintenance of device drivers for obsolete hardware
-migration tools for PDP-11 / ED1000 and BECOS based power generation
and distribution control systems
The tools that do this are from 3rd parties, SunPS and the 3rd parties
can provide the bodies to do the work.
Regards
Andrew Harrison
Tom Linden
It is not easy to convert from a high-level to a low level language.
Don't you have all these compilers running Sun? Why make the customer
convert at all, it has to be an impediment to sales? By legacy do you
mean programs written in the languages you want people to move away from?
>
>
>Regards
>Andrew Harrison
>
>
>---
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Terry C. Shannon
> > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:
> > > If is makes you feel any better Sun has a OpenVMS to
> > > Solaris Affinity Program as well.
Andrew, you have my email address. I'd be interested (seriously) in learning
more about the Sun affinity program.
Thanks,
terry s
p...@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu
For what it's worth, Sun has been delivering a coherent and long-term
range of products ( yes you might argue about it's merits but
that's irrelevant) No users has been cut off, even the BSD loving
customers ( those that made Sun so big) has been treated fairly well.
No users of Sun equipment has been turned down.
I would vote for Sun given a "preffered vendor" status.
> --
> Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences
> nclews at csc dot com
--
Peter Håkanson
IPSec Sverige ( At Gothenburg Riverside )
Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,
remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.
Bob Ceculski
The mistake HP made is to try to get VMS users to move to any unix, not
just HP UX ... because it just ain't going to happen!
dav...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk
Slight correction it will happen if HPQ really forces it but in that case
it definitely won't be to HP-UX. And many of the people in those companies will
be so upset with HPQ that HPQ will be lucky to sell them a toner cartridge in
the next 5 years.
David Webb
VMS and Unix team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University
Bill Gunshannon
It will happen no more than one year from the day HP decides it will no
longer issue License Paks for VMS. Unless you figure all those really
big businesses that are still running VMS will be willing to run their
DP operations on a machine with the clock set back a year.
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bi...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
Peter Weaver
news:abgv9p$ejl$4...@info.cs.uofs.edu...
>...
> It will happen no more than one year from the day HP decides it will no
> longer issue License Paks for VMS. Unless you figure all those really
> big businesses that are still running VMS will be willing to run their
> DP operations on a machine with the clock set back a year.
>...
Bill, you're thinking about educational licenses and/or hobbyist licenses.
The licenses we buy do not expire.
--
Peter Weaver
Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor the
company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.
Paul Winalski
wrote:
>exactly what I have been saying for years ... Palmer was a
>Gates crony, paid off by Bill and Intel to give them all
>the little Alpha - VMS secrets while slowly destroying
>Digital ... this just confirms it ...
There's no need to invoke any grand Gates/Grove conspiracy.
GQ Bob's own personal greed is more than enough to explain it.
From almost day 1, Bob Palmer's game plan was to sell off Digital
to another company and cash in on his golden parachute. All
the discontinued business units, the lack of effort to invest to build
a market for Alpha, were aimed towards that goal. The Hudston
fab and the semiconductor business had to go because it was a
cash drain that was messing up the balance sheet. GQ Bob
eventually had to sue Intel to force them to take it off his hands.
Even the terms of the Compaq merger betray the self-interest--as
a last stab in the back to Digital shareholders, they did the merger
so that it would be a taxable event for the Digital shareholders, but
not Compaq/Digital the corporation.
----------
Remove 'Z' to reply by email.
Bob Ceculski
> "Bill Gunshannon" <bi...@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message
> news:abgv9p$ejl$4...@info.cs.uofs.edu...
> >...
> > It will happen no more than one year from the day HP decides it will no
> > longer issue License Paks for VMS. Unless you figure all those really
> > big businesses that are still running VMS will be willing to run their
> > DP operations on a machine with the clock set back a year.
>
> >...
>
> Bill, you're thinking about educational licenses and/or hobbyist licenses.
> The licenses we buy do not expire.
maybe Bill calls in every 30 days and gets another trial license ...
David Froble
> In article <d7791aa1.02051...@posting.google.com>,
> b...@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:
> |> JF Mezei <jfmezei...@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3CDB8213...@videotron.ca>...
> |> > Nic Clews wrote:
> |> > > I certainly hope that the UNIX portability initiatives get equal
> |> > > 'airplay' from the relevant folks, where of course Sun is a target
> |> > > source platform.
> |> >
> |> >
> |> > The mistake HP made is starting now to tell VMS folks to migrate to Unix, at a
> |> > time when HP doesn't have a unix it can accurately describe. Until HP-UX is
> |> > commercially used on IA64, and until the integration of Tru64 is complete, I
> |> > think that folks will not really care to invest mega money in HP-UX.
> |>
> |> The mistake HP made is to try to get VMS users to move to any unix, not
> |> just HP UX ... because it just ain't going to happen!
>
> It will happen no more than one year from the day HP decides it will no
> longer issue License Paks for VMS. Unless you figure all those really
> big businesses that are still running VMS will be willing to run their
> DP operations on a machine with the clock set back a year.
>
> bill
With the exception of the hobbyist program, and the CSA program, All license
PAKs that I've seen are perpetual. Don't know about the education stuff.
If you have a VMS system in commercial use, from a licensing perspective, you
can run it until after the local star burns out.
Dave
JF Mezei
> If you have a VMS system in commercial use, from a licensing perspective, you
> can run it until after the local star burns out.
Yep. But it also means that you can no longer purchase software for it because
nobody develops for that platform anymore. And you may find it harder to find
qualified people to maintain it. And eventually, you run out of spare parts,
unless you buy stray machines that everyone else is getting rid off to use for spares.
It also means that all new development is being done on a newwer platform, and
eventually, you will want to migrate the VMS application to the new platform
because the VMS you have doesn't have the brand new proprietary MS-TCPIP stack
needed to communicate with Windows-2135.
Tom Linden
is just now migrating from VAX to Alpha, and they expect to run with
that for some years.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei...@videotron.ca]
>Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:26 AM
>To: Info...@Mvb.Saic.Com
>Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC
>
>
Bob Ceculski
why? Are you going to port your newsletter from "Shannon knows HPS"
to "Shannon knows Sun"?
Paul Sture
Perhaps pecause Didier LISTENS to criticism ???
__
Paul Sture
Switzerland
Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy
Nic Clews wrote:
That would be COE which Sun was involved in specifying.
Regards
Andrew Harrison
Bill Gunshannon
Bill doesn't ever call them. All contact with Compaq has been through the
University's datacenter. All I knew was that every October my VAX stopped
working and I had to get a set of PAKS for it. As people have said, it is
a CSLG thing and does not apply to commercial licenses.
And for those who are concerned about the future of VMS and how it is
affected by loss of educational exposure, I am pretty sure my VAXen have
been dropped from the University's CSLG and that means I will no longer
be able to make them available to students or faculty. Unless maybe HP
decides (real soon) to come out with a no cost, no restrictions educational
program that more or less mirrors the Hobbyist Program. I am nbot holding
my breath, :-(
Phillip Helbig
> affected by loss of educational exposure, I am pretty sure my VAXen have
> been dropped from the University's CSLG and that means I will no longer
> be able to make them available to students or faculty. Unless maybe HP
> decides (real soon) to come out with a no cost, no restrictions educational
> program that more or less mirrors the Hobbyist Program. I am nbot holding
> my breath, :-(
Actually, they have. In fact, one of the main criticisms of the new
educational programme is that it is modelled TOO CLOSELY on the hobbyist
programme. Depending on what you want to do, this might or might not be
a disadvantage.
Bill Gunshannon
Which program is this?? The last one I saw discussed here
basicly made VMS a single user OS and put a whole bunch of
administrative responsibility on the head of professors who
wanted to use them for class work (and anyone who knows any
professors will know how quickly that would kill an idea!)
If there is an education program now that issues the same
PAKS that you can get from the Hobbyist program that just
says "no commercial use" and has the same cost as the VMS
Hobbyist Program, how does one learn about it??
David Mathog
> With the exception of the hobbyist program, and the CSA program, All license
> PAKs that I've seen are perpetual. Don't know about the education stuff.
The CSLG licenses expire yearly. Not sure about those
in the shame "new educational program." Probably those
do too since they seem to be the same as the Hobbyist licenses.
Should HP decide to stop issueing any of the above
PAKS it would be nothing but a spoonful of dirt on the
grave of VMS in academia. DEC/Digital/Compaq have
already mismanaged VMS from being the dominant
force in the academic market to virtual extinction.
Sort of like the dinosaurs but that's not quite right
since VMS isn't totally extinct. VMS is more like a
Coelecanth I guess: where once it was smaller and widespread
it is now large and very rare. The debacle in academia
was a leading indicator of the similar but not quite
so total slaughter in other markets. It was also a
leading indicator of the demise of the companies in question.
It was clear to me at Bob Palmer's second reorg that
he was going to drive Digital into the ground. Pity the
BOD of Digital was populated by "hear no evil", "see no evil",
"speak no evil", and "make no money". Ditto for Compaq.
We'll see about HPQ but, well, so far they sure sound
like the same overpaid "can't do" class of golden
parachuted management we've come to know and abhor.
Regards,
David Mathog
mat...@caltech.edu
Carl Perkins
The difference between Sun and Digital/Compaq:
Sun's "affinity" program is to more people from a competitor's
OS (VMS) to their own OS (Solaris).
Digital/Compaq's "affinity" program was to move people from their
own OS (VMS) to a competitor's OS (Windows NT).
HP may be, in some sense, taking a setp up - at least they may
be trying to shift people from one of their OSes (VMS) (well,
two of them actually as you can add in Tru64) to another of their
own OSes (HPUX). This may be a bit less stupid than what has happened
before, from the persective of a company trying to make money for
themselves rather than for Microsoft. However, note that "a bit
less stupid" is not the same as "smart".
--- Carl
Mike Foley
Prior to the NT "Affinity" program, there was quite a push
within VMS to get those VMS customers who were going
to Unix to go to DEC Unix.
Unfortunately, I'd say a fair amount ported to Unix using
the tools available, only to end up ready to run on Sun.
If as much effort went into keeping customers happy on
VMS, we'd ALLbe alot happier. (ie: pushing a marketing
message that staying with VMS is a smart choice in
business, etc..)
mike
"Carl Perkins" <ca...@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:13MAY200...@gerg.tamu.edu...
Marc Van Dyck
"Didier Morandi" <Didier....@Free.fr> wrote in message
news:3CD962A4...@Free.fr...
>
> On the parking issue.
>
> One day around the 1980' Ken visited the Belgium HQ. He noticed a car park
place
> close to the main entrance labelled "Director" (or HQ manager, I do not
> remember). He said "This is not DIGITAL spirit, please remove".
>
> I posted this story in an internal DEC forum (formerly HUMAN::DIGITAL for
those
> who wish to find the original post). Someone replied to the post saying
that
> this was an incorrect answer as KO has a personal car park place. During a
visit
> to the Mill, I went to see KO's car park place. I did find an anonymous
> delimited area but no label of any sort.
>
> D.
Didier, I worked for the Belgian Digital subsidiary, for 12 years. I have
never seen such a
sign and I don't believe it ever existed. Besides that, I have heard the
same story with five
or seven different countries named, so I think it must be some sort of urban
legend. And finally,
I will check with some ex-colleagues, but I don't believe KO ever visited
the Brussels' offices.
Marc.
dav...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk
>
> Prior to the NT "Affinity" program, there was quite a push
> within VMS to get those VMS customers who were going
> to Unix to go to DEC Unix.
>
> Unfortunately, I'd say a fair amount ported to Unix using
> the tools available, only to end up ready to run on Sun.
>
> If as much effort went into keeping customers happy on
> VMS, we'd ALLbe alot happier. (ie: pushing a marketing
> message that staying with VMS is a smart choice in
> business, etc..)
>
> mike
>
Lots of parallels there.
Users "persuaded" to move from VMS to DEC Unix (at that time Ultrix).
Then along comes Alpha. Users faced with port to a new "DEC UNIX" running
on a different chip. Both Unixes owned by same company but port difficult
enough that many users look at alternatives.
And that was with porting to a chip and new OS which both looked at least as
good performance wise and in functionality as the chip and OS being replaced
- a far cry from what Tru64 users are facing today.
David Webb
VMS and Unix team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University
Bill Sticker
> Well, the sky isn't exactly falling. I have one customer who
> is just now migrating from VAX to Alpha, and they expect to run with
> that for some years.
>
Tom Linden
private mail rather than to the newsgroup. But in any event
send me your CV and I will forward it, but send it directly.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Sticker [mailto:NOSPAM...@SPAMSTOPPER.CO.UK]
>Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:54 PM
>To: Info...@Mvb.Saic.Com
>Subject: Re: Bob Palmer and the demise of DEC
>
>
>
