DESPERATELY SEEKING VAX-CDs (WAN-Drivers, VAX-PSI)

[Christof Neuberger]

Hello my dear VMS friends,
for a system upgrade in a y2k project we are searching original CDs
containing the following products of DEC:

1. WAN-Device-Drivers Version 1.2
2. VAX-PSI Version 4.3

The system on which the products probably will be installed, is an
MicroVAX 3100.
The operating system release is VMS 5.5-2H4.
DEC, sorry, i mean Compaq :-( , was not able or willing to deliver them
to us.
The CDs have been originally delivered between 1991 - 1993.

Can anybody help us and borrow us the CDs we need? We will copy and send
them back at once.

contact:

Gudrun Plato
phone +49-30-2801-1815
fax +49-30-2801-1020
email: gpl...@psi.de

Christof Neuberger
phone +49-30-2801-1858
email: cneub...@psi.de

PSI AG
Berlin/Germany

[Jonathan McCormack]

Christof Neuberger wrote in message <369F2810...@psi.de>...

>Hello my dear VMS friends,
>for a system upgrade in a y2k project we are searching original CDs
>containing the following products of DEC:
>
>1. WAN-Device-Drivers Version 1.2
>2. VAX-PSI Version 4.3
>

I had a wee look and found the following - is this what you need?

September 1993
Index CD Product Name Vers Directory
----- -- ----------------------------------- ---- ---------
407 3 VAX Packetnet System Interface 4.3 [PSI_AC043]
Access
408 3 VAX Packetnet System Interface 4.3 [PSI043]

426 3 VAX Wide Area Network Device 1.2 [SYNC012]
Drivers

If so, let me know and I'll get you the CD sent out.

Jonathan
---
"What a start to my Grand Prix career. I get punched by Senna in my first
race, crash in my second, destroy four cars in my third and get banned from
my fourth. People are going to think I'm some kind of nutter." - Eddie
Irvine 1994
Irv The Swerve @ http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7864

[Antonio Carlini]

In article <369F2810...@psi.de>, gpl...@psi.de wrote:
>Path:

>Can anybody help us and borrow us the CDs we need? We will copy and send
>them back at once.
>

I don't know the legal ramifications of borrowing the CDs and installing
directly from them (or buying them), but copying the CDs (which you imply
above you will do) is definitely illegal. (I'm assuming you have a valid
licence for each of those products - even if COMPAQ won't supply the CDs the
licences are available).

You should also make sure that you have the last set of updates available (i.e
PSI V4.3A and WANDD V1.2B).

Antonio

Antonio Carlini Mail: car...@marvin.reo.dec.com
DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering
COMPAQ Reading, UK

[Dave Pickles]

In article: <77uquk$aka$2...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> car...@marvin.reo.dec.com

(Antonio Carlini) writes:
>
> I don't know the legal ramifications of borrowing the CDs and installing
> directly from them (or buying them), but copying the CDs (which you imply
> above you will do) is definitely illegal. (I'm assuming you have a valid
> licence for each of those products - even if COMPAQ won't supply the CDs the
> licences are available).
>
> You should also make sure that you have the last set of updates available
(i.e
> PSI V4.3A and WANDD V1.2B).
>
> Antonio

Picking a CD at random from my pile I read:

"The software on this media is proprietary to and embodies the confidential
technology of Digital Equipment Corporation. Posession, use, duplication or
dissemination of the software and media is authorised only pursuant to a valid
licence from DIGITAL or an authorised sublicensor"

From which I assume that I can copy this software provided I have a licence
for it.
--
Dave Pickles

[Antonio Carlini]

In article <581434...@nugate.demon.co.uk>, da...@nugate.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
>Picking a CD at random from my pile I read:
>
>"The software on this media is proprietary to and embodies the confidential
>technology of Digital Equipment Corporation. Posession, use, duplication or
>dissemination of the software and media is authorised only pursuant to a valid
>licence from DIGITAL or an authorised sublicensor"
>
>From which I assume that I can copy this software provided I have a licence
>for it.

Whereas, being perhaps somewhat more cautious, I would interpret it as:

"If I have a licence to copy, I can copy"
"If I have a licence to use, I can use"
etc.

The only licence I've seen lately is effectively a "right to use" licence.
There used to be something called a "right to copy" licence where, if you
already had product X licenced on site for machine A then you could purchase a
"right to copy" licence for machine B (which was cheaper than buying a new set
of media for machine B). Given the way CD distribution works these days, I
don't think "right to copy" licences exist any more.

[Hans Hübner]

Antonio Carlini schrieb am Montag, 18. Januar 1999 um 09:00:00 UTC+1:

> In article <369F2810...@psi.de>, gpl...@psi.de wrote:
> >Path:
> >Can anybody help us and borrow us the CDs we need? We will copy and send
> >them back at once.
> >

> I don't know the legal ramifications of borrowing the CDs and installing
> directly from them (or buying them), but copying the CDs (which you imply
> above you will do) is definitely illegal. (I'm assuming you have a valid
> licence for each of those products - even if COMPAQ won't supply the CDs the
> licences are available).
> You should also make sure that you have the last set of updates available (i.e
> PSI V4.3A and WANDD V1.2B).

It has been a couple of decades, but I'm now facing the same problem: I'm trying to get VAX PSI up on a VAX 4000/105A with a DSW41 serial card for recreational purposes, but I only have VAX PSI 4.3 and VAX WAN DEVICE DRIVERS from the September 1993 CONDIST. With those versions, the synchronous ports are not offered in the PSI_SET_UP procedure and they can't be brought up with NCP (BADPARAM errors). Does anyone recall this problem and/or have the PSI V4.3A / WANDD V1.2B distribution or patches and would be willing to share?

Thank you!
Hans

[Brian Schenkenberger]

I might have them but the old ConDists are in boxes with other things
in boxes I can't lift at the moment. Surgery next week but I won't be
able to lift for about four weeks thereafter.

[Simon Clubley]

On 2023-05-17, Brian Schenkenberger <ma...@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:
>
> I might have them but the old ConDists are in boxes with other things
> in boxes I can't lift at the moment. Surgery next week but I won't be
> able to lift for about four weeks thereafter.
>

Hope everything goes OK for you Brian.

Simon.

--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

[Hans Hübner]

Brian Schenkenberger schrieb am Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2023 um 16:44:27 UTC+2:
> On 2023-05-17 12:52:49 +0000, Hans Hübner said:
>
> > It has been a couple of decades, but I'm now facing the same problem:
> > I'm trying to get VAX PSI up on a VAX 4000/105A with a DSW41 serial
> > card for recreational purposes, but I only have VAX PSI 4.3 and VAX WAN
> > DEVICE DRIVERS from the September 1993 CONDIST. With those versions,
> > the synchronous ports are not offered in the PSI_SET_UP procedure and
> > they can't be brought up with NCP (BADPARAM errors). Does anyone
> > recall this problem and/or have the PSI V4.3A / WANDD V1.2B
> > distribution or patches and would be willing to share?
>

> I might have them but the old ConDists are in boxes with other things
> in boxes I can't lift at the moment. Surgery next week but I won't be
> able to lift for about four weeks thereafter.

Hope everything goes well with your surgery!

I'm not sure, but it seems that the versions of PSI and VWDD that made it onto the CONDISTs are just the "base" versions, i.e. without the A/B suffix. At least this is the case for the 1992 and 1993 releases. I'm not sure, but maybe there were patch kits/ECOs to upgrade the base version? I'm not familiar how version suffixes worked at DEC, though.

[Neil Rieck]

On Friday, January 15, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Christof Neuberger wrote:
> Hello my dear VMS friends,
> for a system upgrade in a y2k project we are searching original CDs
> containing the following products of DEC:
> 1. WAN-Device-Drivers Version 1.2
> 2. VAX-PSI Version 4.3

> The system on which the products probably will be installed, is an
> MicroVAX 3100.
> The operating system release is VMS 5.5-2H4.
> DEC, sorry, i mean Compaq :-( , was not able or willing to deliver them
> to us.
> The CDs have been originally delivered between 1991 - 1993.

> Can anybody help us and borrow us the CDs we need? We will copy and send
> them back at once.

> contact:
> Gudrun Plato
> phone +49-30-2801-1815
> fax +49-30-2801-1020
> email: gpl...@psi.de
> Christof Neuberger
> phone +49-30-2801-1858
> email: cneub...@psi.de
> PSI AG
> Berlin/Germany

I will check today but "I think" we have more than 50 consolidated CD-ROMs mailers from the VMS-5 days
(I think we also have media kits for VMS-6 on VAX and VMS-7 variations for both VAX and Alpha)

p.s. I worry that these will be tossed after I retire next year so have wondered if I shouldn't send them to bitsavers
http://www.bitsavers.org/
https://archive.org/details/bitsavers

Heck, I wonder if this stuff shouldn't be sent to VSI except I suspect they already have multiple copies.
So if you are in a jam (or this is an emergency) then reach out to VSI or Stromasys

Neil Rieck
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
http://neilrieck.net

[Hans Hübner]

Neil Rieck schrieb am Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2023 um 12:26:48 UTC+2:
> I will check today but "I think" we have more than 50 consolidated CD-ROMs mailers from the VMS-5 days
> (I think we also have media kits for VMS-6 on VAX and VMS-7 variations for both VAX and Alpha)

Thanks! I already know that the March 1992 and the December 1993 CONDISTs don't contain the patched versions, but only the plain versions of PSI and WDD. I believe what I'm looking for is a patch kit, but maybe the original installation distribution was also updated at some point. For PSI, the md5s (I know I know) for the distribution save sets are:

MD5 (PSI043/KIT/PSI043.A) = 9a7657c3967c87a5a54255720c1aec3e
MD5 (PSI043/KIT/PSI043.B) = 008f19a6b39b839cd3c87314de8dbfd0
MD5 (PSI043/KIT/PSI043.C) = 31237d0331e6d93fc7ab594929b54007
MD5 (PSI043/KIT/PSI043.D) = 66acb08a9bb975bc213cf60308b22c50
MD5 (PSI043/KIT/PSI043.E) = 0f1a86f56b43975f06466c9f75f109ed

> p.s. I worry that these will be tossed after I retire next year so have wondered if I shouldn't send them to bitsavers
> http://www.bitsavers.org/
> https://archive.org/details/bitsavers

I think the licensing situation for layered products is more complicated as not everything has been transferred to VSI. Not sure if VSI or HP would object to the stuff be on archive.org or bitsavers.

> Heck, I wonder if this stuff shouldn't be sent to VSI except I suspect they already have multiple copies.
> So if you are in a jam (or this is an emergency) then reach out to VSI or Stromasys

This is just a recreational activity, so there is no urgency. Still, I'd love to get this going.

Thanks,
-Hans

[Dave Froble]

If you think they will be pitched, then don't leave them.

The idea of some repository is perhaps best.

> Heck, I wonder if this stuff shouldn't be sent to VSI except I suspect they already have multiple copies.
> So if you are in a jam (or this is an emergency) then reach out to VSI or Stromasys

Don't be too sure of what VSI may have. Remember, VAX is not something they
think about. Or support.

--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: da...@tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486

[arca...@gmail.com]

It would be nice to have a list of even just the dates when CONDIST and CONOLD sets were released. That way I could work out how many more I need to find !

For these specific kits I think perhaps looking on Hobbyist CDROMs of the past might be worth while ... I think they included at least some layered product kits didn't they?


Antonio

[Single Stage to Orbit]

On Thu, 2023-05-18 at 12:06 -0400, Dave Froble wrote:
> > p.s. I worry that these will be tossed after I retire next year so
> > have wondered if I shouldn't send them to bitsavers
> > http://www.bitsavers.org/
> > https://archive.org/details/bitsavers
>
> If you think they will be pitched, then don't leave them.
>
> The idea of some repository is perhaps best.

Indeed, maybe create disk images of the media and send them to some
archivists who would give them a proper home.
--
Tactical Nuclear Kittens

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 5/18/2023 12:06 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 5/18/2023 6:26 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
>> I will check today but "I think" we have more than 50 consolidated
>> CD-ROMs mailers from the VMS-5 days
>> (I think we also have media kits for VMS-6 on VAX and VMS-7 variations
>> for both VAX and Alpha)
>>
>> p.s. I worry that these will be tossed after I retire next year so
>> have wondered if I shouldn't send them to bitsavers
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/
>> https://archive.org/details/bitsavers
>
> If you think they will be pitched, then don't leave them.
>
> The idea of some repository is perhaps best.

I totally agree.

It is important to preserve historical stuff.

And better to have more than one copy available than
to end up with no copies available.

Arne

[Volker Halle]

arca...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2023 um 20:10:06 UTC+2:
> It would be nice to have a list of even just the dates when CONDIST and CONOLD sets were released. That way I could work out how many more I need to find !

Antonio,

there is a CONDIST database on: http://de.openvms.org/spl.php

Volker.

[arca...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 19 May 2023 at 06:07:17 UTC+1, Volker Halle wrote:
>
> there is a CONDIST database on: http://de.openvms.org/spl.php

Yes, I made contact with Martin back in 2021 and I think he added my entries to his list. There are still gaps though, so it would be good if people with the missing CDROMs could gather the data and send it in.

If people want to send me the CONOLD and CONDIST CDROMs, I'm happy to grab the data directly from the CDROMs, collate it and forward it.

Antonio

[Hans Hübner]

A friend figured it out: One needs to install PSI before WAN-DEVICE-DRIVERS, as the latter includes a new version of PSI_CONFIG.COM that knows about the DSW42.

That was unexpected, but also easy :)

[Robert A. Brooks]

Are you going to connect to a PSDN? I'm pretty sure that X.25 over TCP/IP was
done about a decade after the version of VAX PSI that you're running.

--

--- Rob (current Alpha/IA64/X86_64 X.25 maintainer)

[Hans Hübner]

Robert A. Brooks schrieb am Sonntag, 21. Mai 2023 um 23:06:56 UTC+2:
> Are you going to connect to a PSDN? I'm pretty sure that X.25 over TCP/IP was
> done about a decade after the version of VAX PSI that you're running.

No, I'm going to use a cisco router and exchange packets over the Internet using XOT. Our PSDN (DATEX-P) was switched off in 2019.

-Hans

[arca...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 21 May 2023 at 22:06:56 UTC+1, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
> Are you going to connect to a PSDN? I'm pretty sure that X.25 over TCP/IP was
> done about a decade after the version of VAX PSI that you're running.

XOT for OpenVMS Alpha was done ~200/2001, at the same time that I think I was doing the GAP client for OpenVMS Alpha.

I need to get signed up for the x86 Hobbyist program so I can see if I can get x86 XOT going at some point :-)

Antonio

[Robert A. Brooks]

Well, I haven't ported X.25 to X86 yet; it hasn't been requested by any customers yet.

--
-- Rob

[Simon Clubley]

:-)

Do you think it's _likely_ to be requested by any x86-64 customers ? :-)

On a more serious note, I wonder if I might get depressed if I ask
what obsolete oddball[*] protocols people _are_ planning to run on
a nice modern x86-64 VMS system.

For example, is anyone planning to run DDCMP on x86-64 VMS ?

[*] Something other than the usual candidates such as Telnet or
Ethernet based DECnet. For example, DDCMP, SNA, SLIP, etc.

[Robert A. Brooks]

On 5/22/2023 1:40 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2023-05-22, Robert A. Brooks <FIRST...@vmssoftware.com> wrote:

>> Well, I haven't ported X.25 to X86 yet; it hasn't been requested by any customers yet.

> Do you think it's _likely_ to be requested by any x86-64 customers ? :-)

No, but I can hope!

> On a more serious note, I wonder if I might get depressed if I ask
> what obsolete oddball[*] protocols people _are_ planning to run on
> a nice modern x86-64 VMS system.
>
> For example, is anyone planning to run DDCMP on x86-64 VMS ?

Do hypervisors provide a synchronous interface to a guest?

Even if they did, I suspect that we don't provide a synch driver.

I'm pretty sure that IA64 did support a synchronous interface,
and I'm even more sure that we never even discussed supporting
one on X86_64.

I am aware that DECnet will run over an asynch serial line (NODRIVER).

--

--- Rob

[arca...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 23 May 2023 at 00:25:15 UTC+1, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
> On 5/22/2023 1:40 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> > On 2023-05-22, Robert A. Brooks <FIRST...@vmssoftware.com> wrote:
>
> >> Well, I haven't ported X.25 to X86 yet; it hasn't been requested by any customers yet.
> > Do you think it's _likely_ to be requested by any x86-64 customers ? :-)
> No, but I can hope!

But without X.25 support how will SET HOST/X29 ever work? :-)

> Do hypervisors provide a synchronous interface to a guest?
>
> Even if they did, I suspect that we don't provide a synch driver.

If I remember the profile correctly, then PSI would run over ethernet with ISO8881. So you don't strictly need a synchronous device.

There was also GAP that allowed you to use a PSI connection on a different node.

Antonio