Floppy disk fails in QNX 2.21 - Speed problem???
Movielink
I have had a problem reading/writing floppy disks
on a standard PC running QNX 2.21
The suspect is speed - machine is to fast I think.
I have the following system setup:
ASUS P5A-B Motherboard (Aladin 5 Chipset)
AMD K6-2 350Mhz
32Mb RAM
4Gb Hard drive
100Mhz front side BUS
Patches/Fixes:
speed_correct - To enable things to work.
disk.atc - Modified disk driver to enable large hard drives
------------
When running an AMD K6-2 at 266Mhz and 66Mhz front side BUS, all is
fine.
100Mhz front BUS and 350Mhz floppy drive will not work.
What do I do? Is there any "patches" out there to fix this?
It is no longer possible to get 'slow' processors - I need to
fix this, upgrading to QNX 4.xx is not an option as the application
software is "locked" to QNX 2.21:-(
Any sugestions are welcommed...
Anthony White
E-Mail: movi...@c031.aone.net.au
Movielink
I am writing a reply to my own post as no person seems to have any
input on the above issue.
>
> The suspect is speed - machine is to fast I think.
>
> I have the following system setup:
>
> ASUS P5A-B Motherboard (Aladin 5 Chipset)
> AMD K6-2 350Mhz
> 32Mb RAM
> 4Gb Hard drive
> 100Mhz front side BUS
>
> Patches/Fixes:
>
> speed_correct - To enable things to work.
> disk.atc - Modified disk driver to enable large hard drives
>
> ------------
I have sent out a couple of E-Mails to QNX "experts" and have receive
"one" reply which
only basically stated that we are out of luck.:-(
Since there seems to be no QNX people with any experience in this
particular
problem I would like to put this suggestion/question forward:
Will it be possible to write a piece of code which would "slow down"
the timing
for the floppy drive access like a TSR in DOS that could be loaded from
the hard drive. Since it is an OS with UNIX like properties I do not
know
how such a thing could be implemented.
Somthing as basic as inserting delay loops on access to the floppy drive
or such thing...
Please let me know if it is possible to do this?
Anthony White
Movielink
QNX 2.21 User...
Mitchell Schoenbrun
> I have sent out a couple of E-Mails to QNX "experts" and have receive
> "one" reply which
> only basically stated that we are out of luck.:-(
> Since there seems to be no QNX people with any experience in this
> particular
> problem I would like to put this suggestion/question forward:
> Will it be possible to write a piece of code which would "slow down"
> the timing
> for the floppy drive access like a TSR in DOS that could be loaded from
> the hard drive. Since it is an OS with UNIX like properties I do not
> know
> how such a thing could be implemented.
This is theoretically possible, but it is unlikely that it will
be accomplished. The floppy code is embedded in the OS and is unlikely
to be released.
If you can figure out a way to load the OS to your hard drive,
so that you can boot off of it, it would be possible to write
your own floppy driver. I know that this is a lot of work,
as I've done it before.
--
Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- masc...@pobox.com
Movielink
> > I have sent out a couple of E-Mails to QNX "experts" and have receive
> > "one" reply which
> > only basically stated that we are out of luck.:-(
>
> > Since there seems to be no QNX people with any experience in this
> > particular
> > problem I would like to put this suggestion/question forward:
> This is theoretically possible, but it is unlikely that it willbe
> accomplished. The floppy code is embedded in the OS and is unlikely to be
> released.
That is not very good news - I do need to be able to run the floppy drive
during "normal" operation.
> If you can figure out a way to load the OS to your hard drive,
> so that you can boot off of it, it would be possible to write
> your own floppy driver. I know that this is a lot of work,
> as I've done it before.
It is not a problem to get the OS onto the hard drive - I have tools
for that purpose, the problem is that the floppy drive is needed
to load data into the application I use on a regular basis.
(You can also disable the cache in the CPU and the MB's external
cache to install from floppy - no problem)
Back to the floppy driver, it needs to be able to run a stock standard
run off the mill 1.44Mb 3.5" floppy disk drive. If someone has such
a beast available I would be interested. Please send E-Mail to
and let me know.
Anthony White
Movielink
George
Have you thought about using a parallel port zip drive using Mitchell
Schoenbrun's QNX2.21 zip driver. It works good. Check it out at:
http://schoenbrun.com/~mba/index.html .
George...
******************
Movielink <movi...@c031.aone.net.au> wrote in message
news:378A7CB2...@c031.aone.net.au...
Movielink
> Anthony,
>
> Have you thought about using a parallel port zip drive using Mitchell
> Schoenbrun's QNX2.21 zip driver. It works good. Check it out at:
> http://schoenbrun.com/~mba/index.html .
George,
With this somewhat delayed response :-) I can inform
you that the suggestion you put forward wil not
solve my problem.
I need it to be a standard floppy drive, prefereably
the one in the PC.
Just to repeat what the problem is:
1. Running QNX 2.21 with a propriety application
on fast hardware makes the floppy drive fail.
2. System config:
AMD K6-II 350 on ASUS P5A-B motherboard
with 64Mb RAM, 100Mhz front BUS speed.
QNX v. 2.21 with propriety software.
Speed correct installed and disk driver "disk.atc"
from the Net to allow for large drives.
3. It is possible to load and install the OS and application
by slowing down the system (Disable internal and external
cache in BIOS) and all is fine.
4. Ste BIOS back to normal and all works except the floppy drive.
I need either a "hack" of the OS to enable this floppy to
work or a "new" driver to 'hook' into the OS so that the
application can access the drive.
The system is not networked, the floppy disk access
is absolutely nescesary.
The original vendor of the application is looking at porting
to QNX 4.xx but this will take a year at least from now.
If the floppy problem can not be solved we have to consider
dropping the application all together.
I have also looked at possibly getting the vendor to drop
QNX all together and look at porting the app to Linux as the
workload in doing this would be similar in nature to doing
the port to QNX 4.xx
Does anyone have any suggestions...QNX people here???
I know it is only about 40 QNX 4.xx licenses but that
should be enough incentive to do something :-)
Anthony
Heinz Toedter
I have a similar problem with QNX 3.21: I tried to use a
AMD K6-II / 350 MHz and 400 MHz, 100 MHz Bus with speed_correct. Everything
works fine, except floppy access. I thougt about a "to fast problem" and
jumperd the Board (Tyan Trinity S1590) to 166 MHz (66 MHz Bus) but it still
fails. Finally a changed the CPU to a original Intel P166, and no it
works. Don´t ask my why :-)
Heinz
Movielink
Heinz Toedter wrote:
> I have a similar problem with QNX 3.21: I tried to use a
> AMD K6-II / 350 MHz and 400 MHz, 100 MHz Bus with speed_correct. Everything
> works fine, except floppy access. I thougt about a "to fast problem" and
> jumperd the Board (Tyan Trinity S1590) to 166 MHz (66 MHz Bus) but it still
> fails. Finally a changed the CPU to a original Intel P166, and no it
> works. Don´t ask my why :-)
This reply is a bit late (Been traveling) but better late than never:-)
My experience has been that as long as the BUS speed is 66Mhz you can use
up to 350Mhz AMD K-II without problem. (You must use speed_correct)
However running at 100Mhz BUS speed seems to prevent the floppy
drive from working. It can not read or write disks.
So far no person in the QNX community has come up with a solution
to the above. It is proberbly because no development is done
for QNX 2.21 anymore.
I MUST use QNX 2.21 due to the applications I use. They are not
available for QNX 4.xx
Anthony
Benedikt...@mt.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
David Hitchcock
: In article <37BB9F22...@c031.aone.net.au>,
: Movielink <movi...@c031.aone.net.au> wrote:
: >
: >
: > Heinz Toedter wrote:
: >
: > > I have a similar problem with QNX 3.21: I tried to use a
: > > AMD K6-II / 350 MHz and 400 MHz, 100 MHz Bus with speed_correct.
: Everything
: > > works fine, except floppy access. I thougt about a "to fast
: problem" and
: > > jumperd the Board (Tyan Trinity S1590) to 166 MHz (66 MHz Bus) but
: it still
: > > fails. Finally a changed the CPU to a original Intel P166, and no it
: > > works. Don´t ask my why :-)
: >
: > This reply is a bit late (Been traveling) but better late than never:-
: )
: >
: > My experience has been that as long as the BUS speed is 66Mhz you can
: use
: > up to 350Mhz AMD K-II without problem. (You must use speed_correct)
: >
: > However running at 100Mhz BUS speed seems to prevent the floppy
: > drive from working. It can not read or write disks.
Have you tried slowing down the system? Go into the
BIOS, and turn off any/some/all of the following:
- optimized floppy
- Plug and Play OS
- shadowed RAM
- internal cache
- external cache
Essentially there is some kind of a timing error here.
These changes will change the timing, and should help.
QNX2 was written before 486s came out and now people
are running it on P3s.
- Dave Hitchcock
: >
: > So far no person in the QNX community has come up with a solution
Mario Charest
with
QNX2 it would sure make many of their customer happy, switching OS
because of a floppy problem must be pretty frustrating, or why not make
the source of the floppy driver public.
I can understand that they have no man power, but they wouldn't loose
anything by giving the source away no, they hire a consultant to
get rid of this major anoyances. I'm sure Mitchell would be glad
to take care of this ;-)
David Hitchcock <dhitc...@125.com> wrote in message
news:7qejo1$667$1...@gateway.qnx.com...
Mitchell Schoenbrun
> Hey Mitchell or anyone, I'm wondering why QNX is not fixing that problem
> with
> QNX2 it would sure make many of their customer happy, switching OS
> because of a floppy problem must be pretty frustrating, or why not make
> the source of the floppy driver public.
> I can understand that they have no man power, but they wouldn't loose
> anything by giving the source away no, they hire a consultant to
> get rid of this major anoyances. I'm sure Mitchell would be glad
> to take care of this ;-)
I could do this, but QSSL has been pretty clear about limiting their
support for QNX 2.
Mario Charest
Mitchell Schoenbrun <masc...@tsoft.com> wrote in message
news:rsu0hs...@corp.supernews.com...
Although many of us often talk about QSSL great support, I personnaly think
this sucks.
Maybe they have lost the source ;-)
Mitchell Schoenbrun
> Although many of us often talk about QSSL great support, I personnaly think
> this sucks.
> Maybe they have lost the source ;-)
I doubt that. If they did fix this problem, they'd have to
release another version, maybe 2.22. This might be the
big stumbling block.
Mario Charest
Mitchell Schoenbrun <masc...@tsoft.com> wrote in message
news:rsv0e6...@corp.supernews.com...
> Mario Charest <m...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> > Although many of us often talk about QSSL great support, I personnaly
think
> > this sucks.
> > Maybe they have lost the source ;-)
>
> I doubt that. If they did fix this problem, they'd have to
> release another version, maybe 2.22. This might be the
> big stumbling block.
>
>
I don't know nothing about QNX2, but is the floppy driver stand alone,
couldn't they just release a beta version that will stay beta
indefinetaly...
People seems to be in serious trouble here, wouldn't that justify bending
the rules a little. But hum this isn't
Or Mitchell would it be possible to totaly rewrite the driver?
Mitchell Schoenbrun
> couldn't they just release a beta version that will stay beta
> indefinetaly...
> People seems to be in serious trouble here, wouldn't that justify bending
> the rules a little. But hum this isn't
> Or Mitchell would it be possible to totaly rewrite the driver?
I could write a driver, but how would you do a floppy boot?
Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- masc...@pobox.com
Mario Charest
> Mario Charest <m...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> > couldn't they just release a beta version that will stay beta
> > indefinetaly...
> > People seems to be in serious trouble here, wouldn't that justify
bending
> > the rules a little. But hum this isn't
>
> > Or Mitchell would it be possible to totaly rewrite the driver?
>
>
> I could write a driver
>, but how would you do a floppy boot?
Like I said I don't know much about QNX2, are you saying there is also a
problem
with the QNX2 floppy boot loader, rewritting another boot loader is a
possibility
I don't know about QNX2 but under QNX4 it doesn't seems to be too difficult.
>
>
> Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- masc...@pobox.com
>
>
Mitchell Schoenbrun
> Like I said I don't know much about QNX2, are you saying there is also a
> problem
> with the QNX2 floppy boot loader, rewritting another boot loader is a
> possibility
> I don't know about QNX2 but under QNX4 it doesn't seems to be too difficult.
In QNX2, the floppy driver is built into the OS. There is no building
your own boot image. There is no changing this built in floppy driver
either. Once booted off a hard drive, you could mount your own
floppy driver. So there only remains the bootstrap problem.
There are ways around this, but in the mean time, no one is
beating a path to my door on this.
Movielink
> : > However running at 100Mhz BUS speed seems to prevent the floppy
> : > drive from working. It can not read or write disks.
>
> Have you tried slowing down the system? Go into the
> BIOS, and turn off any/some/all of the following:
> - optimized floppy
> - Plug and Play OS
> - shadowed RAM
> - internal cache
> - external cache
>
> Essentially there is some kind of a timing error here.
> These changes will change the timing, and should help.
> QNX2 was written before 486s came out and now people
> are running it on P3s.
I have tried all of this but it failed to solve the problem.
Slowing down things like this results in very poor performance
in the application (Polling hundreds of terminals) with
comms errors.
What I need is something that will allow the floppy to work
at high speed. The high speed only seems to affect the floppy I/O.
Anthony
Movielink
> Hey Mitchell or anyone, I'm wondering why QNX is not fixing that problem
> with
> QNX2 it would sure make many of their customer happy, switching OS
> because of a floppy problem must be pretty frustrating, or why not make
> the source of the floppy driver public.
>
> I can understand that they have no man power, but they wouldn't loose
> anything by giving the source away no, they hire a consultant to
> get rid of this major anoyances. I'm sure Mitchell would be glad
> to take care of this ;-)
I beleive that it would stop some people migrating
to 4.xx
This would affect revenues :-)
Anthony
Movielink
> > Or Mitchell would it be possible to totaly rewrite the driver?
>
> I could write a driver, but how would you do a floppy boot?
>
> Mitchell Schoenbrun --------- masc...@pobox.com
This is how you would handle this.
Booting from floppy is easy, simply "slow" the system down
in BIOS (Disable internal + external cache in BIOS).
If you need to re-install the OS you can do this. Then when it
is installed it is simply a matter of restoring the BIOS
and booting from hard drive.
If you dont need the floppy for anything but installation
you can live with this.
The problem is when your application needs to use the floppy
disk drive.
I would be happy to install a driver that "disables" the
built in floppy drive (In the OS) and 'hooks' itself into
the place of the original built in driver.
This way the application would still work as it would not know
that it is not using the built in driver.
Such a solution would be just fine for us and proberbly many
others.
Anthony
Bob Maccione
Heck, try to get any company to issue an upgrade to something that old and
offically not supported and watch what happens. One of my other contracts
just moved off of Informix 4 which was not supported since 1995, hell it
worked and the only reason we had to move off it was Y to K and machine
incompatability (newer hardware). You have to move on. Now I can say this
since I'm still supporting a Q2 app (and porting it to Linux as we speak).
I don't blame QNX for not fixing the problem (I assume you _did_ run the
speed fix utility) they told you that they aren't going to support it
anymore and you refused to move on. Now if you didn't upgrade your machine
the app would work fine. It's interesting that people are like that. I
basically have told my client that I can't guarantee anything over a 486
(although I do development on a P133). He understands that it's an old OS
and that's what we're living with (for the time being).
Now if you want help porting the qnx app to linux I'll help, however I'm not
easy or cheap :-)
The reason for the port to linux for us is that the person paying for the
port isn't selling enough of these things to justify a port to Q4 and Linux
will more than do the job. Since I get to write the code it will also run
under win32 so we have the (shudder) NT port almost covered if we have to go
that route in the future.
Q2 was a really cool OS and I hope someday QNX will release it into the
public domain (w/ source of course) but I guess that will have to wait till
all of the installed base has moved on. I can cross my fingers tho...
btw: if anyone could fix your problem it would be Mitchell (or Bill
Flowers).
I do have some real interesting software for Q2 if anyone is interested
(qtree is my favorite).
bobm
ps: anyone else doing the QNX -> Linux migration shuffle?