Re: Summary of acme chords

[IainWS]

On Apr 25, 6:40 pm, Brian Vito <brian.v...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has
> any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly
> appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to
> acme for non-programmers.
>
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM

Thanks I appreciate this!

[s...@9front.org]

> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM

Could this be presented in a format accessible to Plan 9 users?

-sl

[hiro]

When only half of the fields of your table have a meaning you're doing
something wrong. And nobody wants to learn motoric motions from some
stupid table.
Things like select are too trivial for this and Snarf can be left out
because essentially it's just the same as cutting and pasting
together.

Soon your pupils will ask you how you can cancel "select".

[Brian Vito]

If you don't find it to be helpful, you could suggest a better way of
presenting the information, rather than referring to it as a "stupid"
table. How did you learn this information -- from a "stupid" textual
list?

[s...@9front.org]

> But thanks for your criticism. Next time, trying to be helpful would
> be nice.

But how do Plan 9 users access this chart?

-sl

[Gabriel Díaz López de la Llave]

hello

A plan9 user already knows how to work with the mouse. The document is for non-plan9 users that want to become one, so there is no problem for them to access it, they will have a compatible browser. Also, if they search the mail list (http://9fans.net/archive/) for information they will discover that some pieces of information are accesible from their current worlds.

Answering your question, I think there was someone who made the google client python program run under plan9. IIRC that tool was able to download documents or manage them somehow (https://developers.google.com/google-apps/spreadsheets/).

Also, 9front, a Plan9 variant developed by volunteers, includes (or can use) all the tools needed to run opera browser (linuxemu, x11, etc.), which probably can get to the document (http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/screenshots).

DP9IK knew this. It´s strange that you didn´t, given your email address :P

gabi

PD: sorry for the http links, you might not be able to read them without javascript.
PDD: Brian Vito, i think there is a youtube video showing how to use the mouse in plan9 which migh be useful to you.
_______________________________________
From: 9fans-...@9fans.net [9fans-...@9fans.net] on behalf of s...@9front.org [s...@9front.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 17:29
To: 9f...@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords

[David du Colombier]

> But how do Plan 9 users access this chart?

hget -o acme_chords.pdf 'https://doc-0o-3g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/pub48giqvrap6he53h3mtl8q9g5nlvid/1335369600000/05011244667098227595/*/0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM'

--
David du Colombier

[Yaroslav]

not on the table: B2+B1 passes dot as arg to the cmd

[s...@9front.org]

>> But how do Plan 9 users access this chart?
>
> hget -o acme_chords.pdf 'https://doc-0o-3g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/pub48giqvrap6he53h3mtl8q9g5nlvid/1335369600000/05011244667098227595/*/0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM'

Thank you.

-sl

[Jacob Todd]

Aren't all of the chords in the acme paper and/or man page?

[Jack Norton]

On 4/25/2012 11:50 AM, Jacob Todd wrote:
> Aren't all of the chords in the acme paper and/or man page?
>
>

The acme paper isn't as descriptive as the man page on the subject.
There is a section for individual mouse buttons and a dedicated section
for chording (keep going down...). Some of the subtle nuances are
explained. In my opinion this needs to really be read over a few times
until you've got it.
I think the same man page is in p9p but I wouldn't know (in fact I
suppose there are differences? -- maybe not in the chording bit).
Now, the sam language quick reference card that one 9fan composed long
ago... THAT is a great little thing to have handy. I printed it out but
removed the file so I don't have a link handy.

-Jack

[Rob DeHart]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Jack Norton <ja...@0x6a.com> wrote:

Now, the sam language quick reference card that one 9fan composed long ago... THAT is a great little thing to have handy.  I printed it out but removed the file so I don't have a link handy.

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/doc/sam-refcard.pdf  seems to be the one

Rob 

[Tom Lieber]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Tom Lieber <t...@alltom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees?
>
> This is how I've always visualized it:
>
>  http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png
>
> (incomplete because I ran out of time and had trouble interpreting the table :)

Just realized that despite my effort, I still typed "copy" instead of
"snarf." Ah, well.

--
Tom Lieber
http://AllTom.com/
http://infinite-sketchpad.com/

[Robert Ransom]

On 2012-04-25, andy zerger <zerge...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Usually I am all about the written word, but the chart made chording
> significantly easier to integrate, brain-wise .. just to screw around I
> made a nroff document about it, my first ever .. (what a pain in the .. to
> make table like data, couldn't find a tag for it anyway)

Use tbl.

[Tom Lieber]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees?

This is how I've always visualized it:

http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png

(incomplete because I ran out of time and had trouble interpreting the table :)

[andy zerger]

Usually I am all about the written word, but the chart made chording significantly easier to integrate, brain-wise .. just to screw around I made a nroff document about it, my first ever .. (what a pain in the .. to make table like data, couldn't find a tag for it anyway)

Acme Chord-Chart

"cmd    "
.B   "    #1     "
.B    "    #2     "
.B    "    #3     "
.B    "  Cancel    "

-------------------------------------------------------

"select "
.B   "     X     "
.B     "     0      "
.B     "     X     "
.B     "     0    "

"execute"
.B   "     0     "
.B     "     0      "
.B     "     0     "
.B     "    B3    "

"search "
.B   "     0     "
.B     "     0      "
.B     "     0     "
.B     "    B2    "

--------------------------------------------------------


"snarf  "
.B   "     X     "
.B     "     0      "
.B     "     X     "
.B     "    B2    "

"cut    "
.B   "     X     "
.B     "     X     "
.B     "     0     "
.B     "    B3    "

"paste  "
.B   "     X     "
.B     "     X     "
.B     "     X     "
.B     "     0    "

[hiro]

> How did you learn this information -- from a "stupid" textual
> list?

No, from a youtube vid. There were these nice mouse button graphics
accompaning the screencast like later in the thread.

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

plus I think the man page describes it quite well. IIRC.

--
using ipad keyboard. excuse any typos.

[andrey mirtchovski]

>  http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png

a suggestion?

http://i.imgur.com/hjFJa.png

[Gorka Guardiola]

I really like this graphics and with the text they are even
better.

G.

[hiro]

This is the way, Tom Lieber's graphic is really great, I agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopu3ZtdCsg

The Hello world is confusing though :D

[andrey mirtchovski]

> I really like this graphics and with the text they are even
> better.

i think it needs two lines of text per graph -- one for what's on
screen, one for the snarf buffer.

[Tom Lieber]

I like that. It'd probably work better if 'cut' and 'paste' didn't
have the same 'select' as their root, so the example for paste could
start empty, or with different text.

[david jeannot]

A bit off topic, but if some OS X users need a

mouse only for Acme, here is a patch to use Acme

without a mouse:

          http://codereview.appspot.com/6115053

Once applied, Devdraw's manual (accessible from

the Help menu) will show the following:

          On Mac OS X 10.6 or later, the following gestures are avail-

          able for trackpad users:

               2-finger-pinch to toggle fullscreen,

               3-finger-swipe left to cut (cmd+x),

               3-finger-swipe right to paste (cmd+v),

               3-finger-swipe up to copy (cmd+c),

               3-finger-swipe down to exec with arg (2-1 chord),

               3-finger-tap to middle-click.

          (Equivalent 2-finger swipe gestures are available for Magic

          Mouse users.)

          Swipe gestures will only be available if the system does not

          use them.  On OS X 10.7 for example, the default trackpad

          configuration must be changed as follows:

               swipe between pages with "2 or 3 fingers",

               swipe up to Mission Control with 4 fingers.

I use this patch since many months, and I find

Acme even more fun than before. You can apply the

patch this way:

          hget http://codereview.appspot.com/download/issue6115053_1.diff > $HOME/Downloads/swipe.diff

          hg -R $PLAN9  import --no-commit $HOME/Downloads/swipe.diff

          cd $PLAN9/src/cmd/acme && mk install

          cd $PLAN9/src/cmd/devdraw && mk install

If this patch conflicts with "hg pull -u" one day,

you will just have to run the following, to trash

all local changes:

          hg -R $PLAN9 update -C

and apply an updated version of the patch.

This patch, that is just a hack, has been refused

at least for the following reasons: it is too

Acme-specific; it can require change to OS X

default conf.

[Uriel]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Tom Lieber <t...@alltom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees?
>
> This is how I've always visualized it:
>
>  http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png

Thanks, this is a quite nice visualization, but i would keep the left
button in some shade of green on the paste, cut and copy pictures, to
indicate you should hold it.

In any case hope you are ok that I added it to http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse

Thanks again.

Uriel

[Uriel]

Ah, that is even better, I added a different green to the held button,
and updated the version at: http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse

But now I'm thinking, the text under Select and Paste should not be
the same, unless you are pasting nothing or exactly the text you are
pasting over.

[andrey mirtchovski]

> But now I'm thinking, the text under Select and Paste should not be
> the same, unless you are pasting nothing or exactly the text you are
> pasting over.

it needs two entries at each vertex: one for the buffer, one for
what's on screen. then the paste becomes:

select:
scr: hwhw_hw_hwhw
buf: wh

paste:
scr: hwhw_wh_hwhw
buf: wh

where the underscored text is "selected".

[Tom Lieber]

That's fine. Great call on showing which buttons are held, actually…
Here's a version with that and a separate example for paste, which
helps the whole thing make sense sequentially:

http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords2.png

It has a transparent background which may or may not help on your site.

[Christian Neukirchen]

s...@9front.org writes:

>> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM
>
> Could this be presented in a format accessible to Plan 9 users?

.TS
box, tab(:);
l | l l l l.
:b1 left:b2 middle:b3 right:cancel
_
select
execute::::b2 right
search::::b2 middle
_
cut:first:second::b3 right
snarf:first:second:third
paste:first::second:b2 middle
.TE

--
Christian Neukirchen <chneuk...@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org

[Martin Kühl]

On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 00:15, david jeannot <djean...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A bit off topic, but if some OS X users need a
> mouse only for Acme, here is a patch to use Acme
> without a mouse:
>
>           http://codereview.appspot.com/6115053

Or you could just use the trackpad and p9p mouse emulation:
- select text, keep the trackpad "button" pressed
- hit option to cut
- hit command to paste

It works surprisingly well.

[Peter A. Cejchan]

.TS
box, tab(:);
l | l l l l.
:b1 left:b2 middle:b3 right:cancel
_

select:x:::
execute::x::b3 right
search:::x:b2 middle

_
cut:first:second::b3 right
snarf:first:second:third
paste:first::second:b2 middle
.TE

[dexen deVries]

On Thursday 26 of April 2012 11:48:59 Martin Kühl wrote:
> Or you could just use the trackpad and p9p mouse emulation:
> - select text, keep the trackpad "button" pressed
> - hit option to cut
> - hit command to paste
>
> It works surprisingly well.

if your touchpad detects two- and three-finger touches (any Synaptics should
do), you can configure it for comfortable execution of Acme commands via touch
+ touchpad left/right button click.


--
dexen deVries

[david jeannot]

(Yes, this is what I used before this patch, but I
couldn't do a 2-1 chord with this emulation,
making Acme useless for me. So I hacked Acme to
"exec with arg" with a 2-3 chord instead, and it
was OK. Then I had to replug a mouse, and found
Acme far more comfortable with a mouse than
without, so I made this patch.)

[Akshat Kumar]

Shouldn't the top one be:

Select->Cut->Paste ?

The "Cut" does the snarfing.
There is no way (that I know)
to simply "Snarf" with a mouse.

Moreover, I feel that the top
two should be joined a the
"Select" vertex, like in the
original.

This is a great representation.

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:40:58 GMT

Brian Vito <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has
> any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly
> appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to
> acme for non-programmers.
>
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM
>

I like it, but new users should probably be made aware that button 3
officially plumbs text. Search only happens if the plumb fails, I'm not
sure of the exact semantics.