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[9fans] power pc port

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David Presotto

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Jul 29, 2003, 11:04:34 AM7/29/03
to
Sape consolidated our various powerpc ports and updated
the code to sources '/sys/src/9/power'. Cheers.

David Presotto

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Jul 29, 2003, 12:35:32 PM7/29/03
to
Arghh. As people pointed out, /sys/src/9/power is a bad choice because it
clashes with the old sgi stuff that we don't support but others might still
be using. I renamed it to /sys/src/9/ppc.

pl...@itic.ca

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Jul 30, 2003, 4:25:58 AM7/30/03
to
Which machines or boards are ``blast'' and ``ucu'' configfiles related to ?

pl...@itic.ca

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Aug 1, 2003, 5:02:28 AM8/1/03
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pres...@closedmind.org (David Presotto) wrote in message news:<4b5afb74f399e57b...@plan9.bell-labs.com>...

> Arghh. As people pointed out, /sys/src/9/power is a bad choice because it
> clashes with the old sgi stuff that we don't support but others might still
> be using. I renamed it to /sys/src/9/ppc.
> --

The question was : what are those 2 new machines that support Plan 9 ?
Where can we buy them ?

PS : It is annoying to see how some people avoid some subjects...

Platform Publicly available Kernel Status

Intel x86 YES actively supported
SGI Yes discontinued
NeXT Yes discontinued
Gnot ??? discontinued
Viaduct NO discontinued
SparcStation YES discontinued
Bitsy (ARM) YES merely supported
AlphaPC YES merely supported
Magnum YES discontinued

UCU ??? ????????????
BLAST ??? ????????????

Sape Mullender

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Aug 1, 2003, 9:40:27 AM8/1/03
to
> The question was : what are those 2 new machines that support Plan 9 ?
> Where can we buy them ?
>
> UCU ??? ????????????
> BLAST ??? ????????????

You can't buy them. The UCU is a telco board with a PowerPC 750 on it.
BLAST is another telco board with a PowerPC 8260 on it. The code is provided
in case anyone wants to port to those PPC (or any other PPC) chips.

Sape

David Presotto

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Aug 1, 2003, 1:51:31 PM8/1/03
to
They are machines built by Lucent for the inside of cellular
stations. Not likely that you'll ever see one. However,
the port may be arbitrarily close to other ppc's that you
might find, making a port to those machines a bit easier.

Christopher Nielsen

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Aug 1, 2003, 2:05:36 PM8/1/03
to
> From: "pl...@itic.ca" <pl...@itic.ca>

>
> Platform Publicly available Kernel Status
>
> SGI Yes discontinued

AFAIK, SGI isn't publicly available. The last time I tried
wrestling with SGI about it, they "poltely declined" to
approve release of the source.

--
Christopher Nielsen
"They who can give up essential liberty for temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

Richard Miller

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Aug 1, 2003, 3:44:29 PM8/1/03
to
I've also got 4th edition Plan 9 running on the ipengine, which is
based on the PowerPC 823. I believe you can still buy those -
see http://www.brightstareng.com/ine1.htm for info.

I'm happy to contribute the port, but I should merge it with the other
ones in ppc first.

-- Richard

pl...@itic.ca

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Aug 4, 2003, 4:59:35 AM8/4/03
to
> AFAIK, SGI isn't publicly available. The last time I tried
> wrestling with SGI about it, they "poltely declined" to
> approve release of the source.


Right (I forgot that) ! That came from R2 which had diferent
license. Looking at the kernel code, it was VERY far from R4.

The init code might be helpfull. For the kernel itself, that
may be a best bet to find the hardware specifications (if any).

pl...@itic.ca

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Aug 4, 2003, 4:59:48 AM8/4/03
to
> I believe you can still buy those -
> see http://www.brightstareng.com/ine1.htm for info.
>

895$ for a 50MHz PPC... compared to Viaduct equivalent
which was told to be ~50$ ?

Isn't it expensive if you want n * Plan 9 CPUs ?

Christopher Nielsen

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Aug 4, 2003, 5:27:27 AM8/4/03
to
There's a lot of proprietary hardware inside the older SGIs.
And I think you'd be hard pressed to find any documentation.
IANAL, but I would think that implementing a kernel after
looking at 2ed code would violate the license. Personally,
I wouldn't risk it.

Just my $0.02

On Mon, Aug 04, 2003 at 08:59:35AM +0000, pl...@itic.ca wrote:
> > AFAIK, SGI isn't publicly available. The last time I tried
> > wrestling with SGI about it, they "poltely declined" to
> > approve release of the source.
>
>

> Right (I forgot that) ! That came from R2 which had diferent
> license. Looking at the kernel code, it was VERY far from R4.
>
> The init code might be helpfull. For the kernel itself, that
> may be a best bet to find the hardware specifications (if any).

--

Charles Forsyth

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Aug 4, 2003, 5:34:27 AM8/4/03
to
i've not unearthed low-quantity prices for powerpc single-board
systems that are anywhere near $50. i'd be delighted
to know where to find ones priced at even thrice that
or a little more.

Charles Forsyth

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Aug 4, 2003, 5:40:24 AM8/4/03
to
> AFAIK, SGI isn't publicly available. The last time I tried
> wrestling with SGI about it, they "poltely declined" to
> approve release of the source.

...

>There's a lot of proprietary hardware inside the older SGIs.
>And I think you'd be hard pressed to find any documentation.

the silly thing is that there are or were linux ports
to several of the SGI devices that ran Plan 9 (and some others). certainly
i've got a copy of such a linux where the files are dated 1998.
if you've got the energy (which i suppose you might
if you've got the incentive of owning the appropriate hardware) you might
find an intelligent human being at SGI who will understand
that if linux exists for it, it is pointless preventing release of Plan 9
source for the same hardware. unless, of course, they
are particularly astute and are trying to preven the
release of a readable system for that hardware.

alternatively, you could use the Linux code as a guide
to driving the hardware and re-port Plan 9.
it will be hard in the case of l.s and mmu.c because
Linux ever has had, as far as i can tell from arm and powerpc ports,
a remarkably x86-based approach to MMU
handling and Plan 9 takes a quite different approach,
especially on the multiprocessors.

it's a shame because the code in /sys/src/9/power/mmu.c
is a delight: clean multiprocessor mmu handling by wielding
logic (eg, carefully worked out invariants) rather than
sledgehammers (eg, interprocessor traps, locks and signals).
i used a variant on the bebox for that reason.
that code isn't SGIs. i thought it was a good example to study
in an OS class.

ron minnich

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Aug 4, 2003, 10:20:17 AM8/4/03
to
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Charles Forsyth wrote:

> if you've got the energy (which i suppose you might
> if you've got the incentive of owning the appropriate hardware) you might
> find an intelligent human being at SGI who will understand

there's the problem. The people who have to make this decision are
probably either (1) laid off, or even worse, (2) lawyers. So much for
intelligent life.

I should tell you the K7 story sometime.

ron

ron minnich

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Aug 4, 2003, 10:19:25 AM8/4/03
to
On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, pl...@itic.ca wrote:

> 895$ for a 50MHz PPC... compared to Viaduct equivalent
> which was told to be ~50$ ?

yeah, that is the "PPC problem". They're always about 10x over on
price/performance. You can get for ca. $150 today a 1 GHZ VIA C3 mobo --
much nicer.

ron

Jack Johnson

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Aug 4, 2003, 10:43:25 AM8/4/03
to
Charles Forsyth wrote:
> i used a variant on the bebox for that reason.

Sorry to be a pest, but any chance of the bebox port seeing the light of
day? Dead hardware line, dead OS line, it would be nice to keep it
chugging along.

-Jack

David Presotto

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Aug 4, 2003, 10:45:22 AM8/4/03
to
Unfair! Lawyers are a lot smarter than we are. And they're minimalists too;
the answer to all questions is 'no'.

Jack Johnson

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Aug 4, 2003, 10:51:26 AM8/4/03
to
David Presotto wrote:
> Unfair! Lawyers are a lot smarter than we are. And they're minimalists too;
> the answer to all questions is 'no'.

I think they're reductionists.

"Can I make money off this?"

-Jack

Richard Miller

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Aug 5, 2003, 6:24:32 AM8/5/03
to
> yeah, that is the "PPC problem". They're always about 10x over on
> price/performance. You can get for ca. $150 today a 1 GHZ VIA C3 mobo --
> much nicer.

I agree that the single-quantity price for the ipengine-1 is very
high, but you're not comparing like with like. The ipengine isn't
meant to be a generic desktop PC motherboard. It's the size of a
credit card, has an integrated FPGA and lots of programmable I/O pins,
and comes with reasonably good hardware docs including schematics ..
all useful for designing / prototyping a special-purpose embedded
system. Also the one-off price includes case and power supply, so
it's usable as a complete (fanless, diskless - i.e. dead silent)
computer, if your application fits in the 4MB onboard flash.

If Plan 9 is a bit of a tight squeeze, you can get Inferno from
Vita Nuova (which served as a useful reference for the original
Plan 9 ipengine implementation - thanks, Charles!).

Aside: do our international readers know what "Chinese whispers" are?

-- Richard

northern snowfall

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Aug 5, 2003, 7:06:29 AM8/5/03
to
>
>
>Aside: do our international readers know what "Chinese whispers" are?
>
I do, and since I'm across the pond I suppose
you can consider us Yanks as international
readers. :-P

Don

http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_

Dan Cross

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Aug 5, 2003, 8:54:36 AM8/5/03
to
> Aside: do our international readers know what "Chinese whispers" are?

I have no idea....

- Dan C.

northern snowfall

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:14:34 AM8/5/03
to
>
>
>I have no idea....
>
Aside international readers to the Chinese whisper?

Don

http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_


northern snowfall

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:17:37 AM8/5/03
to
> Aside international readers to the Chinese whisper?

Mistyped due to hurry *wink*:
Aside international readers, do the Chinese whisper?

Don

http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_


C H Forsyth

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:17:41 AM8/5/03
to
google knows

andrey mirtchovski

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:26:19 AM8/5/03
to
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Richard Miller wrote:

> Aside: do our international readers know what "Chinese whispers" are?
>

on the other side of the iron curtain (where the chinese were at the time
too!) it was known as 'broken telephone'. we used to play it in
kindergarden. then again, we used to sing songs about how bad atomic bombs
are and how the Party is our mother (and the russian Party was the mother in
law, i guess :)

http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=Chinese+whispers

what remains unknown is the connotation -- good or bad?

andrey

northern snowfall

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:32:30 AM8/5/03
to
>
>
>what remains unknown is the connotation -- good or bad?
>
Considering Mr. Miller's context, I'd say bad.
....awaiting snappy Boyd comment ;-D

Don

http://www.7f.no-ip.com/~north_


Dan Cross

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:58:26 AM8/5/03
to
> on the other side of the iron curtain (where the chinese were at the time
> too!) it was known as 'broken telephone'. we used to play it in
> kindergarden. then again, we used to sing songs about how bad atomic bombs
> are and how the Party is our mother (and the russian Party was the mother in
> law, i guess :)
>
> http://www.wordreference.com/english/definition.asp?en=Chinese+whispers

Oh, *that*! We used to play that when I was a kid, too; I never knew it
had a name.

- Dan C.

Philippe Anel

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Aug 5, 2003, 10:41:28 AM8/5/03
to

In french : "le telephone arabe" :)

Philippe

a...@9srv.net

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Aug 5, 2003, 11:29:39 AM8/5/03
to
in my youth (*ahem* more recent than most here, i'd guess) we simply
called it "telephone". i'd assumed from the name it was the same game,
although the etymology (entemology? the one that isn't about bugs) is
curious. i believe "telephone" is a (the?) widely understood name for
the game in American grade schoolers.

oka...@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp

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Aug 5, 2003, 9:04:36 PM8/5/03
to
> Oh, *that*! We used to play that when I was a kid, too; I never knew it
> had a name.

Me, too.

Kenji

boyd, rounin

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Aug 5, 2003, 10:57:31 PM8/5/03
to
> Aside: do our international readers know what "Chinese whispers" are?

i do

pl...@itic.ca

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Aug 6, 2003, 5:02:28 AM8/6/03
to
> IANAL, but I would think that implementing a kernel after
> looking at 2ed code would violate the license. Personally,
> I wouldn't risk it.
>
> Just my $0.02
>

R2 source code has something I never saw again and which is
so good for understanding : almost perfectly commented.

Now if you mean snarf/paste that may constitute
a severe infrigment. People not beeing able to
understand such an asset are probably not capable
of resurrecting the SGI port nor any other port ;-)

FODEMESI Gergely

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Aug 6, 2003, 2:24:27 PM8/6/03
to
Hi,

today I tried to boot the latest downloaded disk on an HP Omnibook 6000,
with an Ati Mobility M/M1 graphic chip in a laptop store.
The kernel recognised everything, but after switching from text to
graphics the screen went blank, and I couldn't reboot it with (ctrl ttr).

Does this sound like an easily resolvable problem, or the driver
recognising the chip just won't drive the screen?

Spec:
PIII 850Mhz (SpeedStep?)
256MB RAM
20GB disk
15" SXGA+ TFT

I've browsed through the archives, but I could hardly find any references
to a similar (same?) graphic chip (Compaq Armada).

It'd be rather cheap (about $780)

thanks: gergo

FODEMESI Gergely

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Aug 7, 2003, 3:52:40 AM8/7/03
to
(sorry for the double send, jim)

thanks!

pci.txt:
0.0.0: 06.00.00 8086/7190 0
0.1.0: 06.04.00 8086/7191 0
0.10.0: 06.07.00 104c/ac51 10
0.10.1: 06.07.00 104c/ac51 10
0.11.0: 02.00.00 10b7/6055 10 0:00001801 128 1:f4002400 128 2:f4002000
128
0.11.1: 07.80.00 10b7/1007 10 0:00001001 256 1:f4002c00 256 2:f4002800
128
0.13.0: 04.01.00 125d/1998 5 0:00001401 256 1:f4000000 8192
0.7.0: 06.80.00 8086/7110 0
0.7.1: 01.01.80 8086/7111 0 4:000018a1 16
0.7.2: 0c.03.00 8086/7112 10 4:00001881 32
0.7.3: 06.80.00 8086/7113 0
1.0.0: 03.00.00 1002/4c4d 10 0:f5000000 16777216 1:00009001 256
2:f4100000 4096

vgainfo.txt:
main->snarf
vga->snarf
mach64xx->snarf
vga->attr: vid=0x1002
vga->attr: did=0x4C4D
vga->attr: 0xC0000-0xC0200=MACH64LM
vga->dump
vga misc 67
vga feature 00
vga sequencer 03 00 03 00 02
vga crt 6F 4F 4F 93 55 83 9E 1F - 00 4F 0D 0E 00 00 07 30
8F 82 8F 28 1F 8F 9F A3 - FF
vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 10 0E 00 - FF
vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 14 07 - 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F
0C 00 0F 08 00
vga virtual 0 0
vga panning off
vga vm a b 16777216 0
vga vmz 8388608
vga apz 8388608
vga linear 1
mach64xx->dump
mach64xx pci 4b528 io 9000 pciregs
mach64xx ccru 300
mach64xx HTotalDisp 004F006F
mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 00030055
mach64xx VTotalDisp 018F019E
mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 0002018F
mach64xx VlineCrntVline 00E303FF
mach64xx OffPitch 0A000000
mach64xx IntCntl 88000134
mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 02402200
mach64xx OvrClr 6B991F00
mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000
mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000
mach64xx CurClr0 47295315
mach64xx CurClr1 D28AD72E
mach64xx CurOffset 00000000
mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000
mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000
mach64xx ScratchReg0 04100400
mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000
mach64xx ClockCntl 00AC0000
mach64xx BusCntl 7333A001
mach64xx MemCntl 10C57A3B
mach64xx ExtMemCntl E0000C81
mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000
mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000
mach64xx DacRegs 00FF0240
mach64xx DacCntl 8601200A
mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000000
mach64xx ConfigCntl 00003D42
mach64xx ConfigChipId 64004C4D
mach64xx ConfigStat0 00C00094
mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000
mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000
mach64xx DspConfig 00570511
mach64xx DspOnOff 03CE04E8
mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpPixWidth FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF
mach64xx LcdIndex 00000401
mach64xx LcdData 407524DE
mach64xx PLL AC AC 40 4C 87 03 D5 EA - EA EA 00 89 80 1B 00 00
0E C7 40 00 50 F6 AC 03 - 40 00 24 FD 00 00 00 02
mach64xx LCD ConfigPanel 000302F4
mach64xx LCD GenCntl 407524DE
mach64xx LCD DstnCntl 00000000
mach64xx LCD HfbPitchAddr 00000F00
mach64xx LCD HorzStretch EAE0074E
mach64xx LCD VertStretch 80000000
mach64xx LCD ExtVertStretch 0060CE00
mach64xx LCD LtGio 00006000
mach64xx LCD PowerMngmnt 0200040B
mach64xx LCD ZvgPio 0A000000
mach64xx VCLK0 52350846
mach64xx VCLK1 52350846
mach64xx VCLK2 52350846
mach64xx VCLK3 0

rom table offset 10E
freq table offset A1A
memclk 125000000
ref_freq 29500000
ref_divider 64
min_freq 9840000
max_freq 236000000
pd 1 value 0 (|1)
post = 2
mach64xx pixel clock = 215710000
ATI BIOS rom 0x10e freq 0x0 clock 0xa1a
clocks: 43605 60268 24955 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 356 0 0 16969
programmable clock: 4
clock to program: 3
reference numerator: 29500
reference denominator: 1
internal clock
reference divider in plls
can't find lcd bios table0

vmf 25175000 vmdf 0 vf1 0 vbw 75000000
vga->init
mach64xx->init
rom table offset 10E
freq table offset A1A
memclk 12500
memclk 12500... x 86.912977...t 86... xprec 7...fifosz 2781.215254...fprec
12...prec 7...afifosz 32...fifooff 2695.000000...pfc 7...rcc 9...fifoon
120.000000...
dbdumpmode
type=multisync75, size=640x480x8
frequency=25175000
x=640 (0x280), y=480 (0x1E0), z=8 (0x8)
ht=800 (0x320), shb=664 (0x298), ehb=760 (0x2F8)
shs=664 (0x298), ehs=760 (0x2F8)
vt=525 (0x20D), vrs=491 (0x1EB), vre=493 (0x1ED)
hsync=0, vsync=0, interlace=0
vga->attr: vid=0x1002
vga->attr: did=0x4C4D
vga->attr: 0xC0000-0xC0200=MACH64LM
vga->dump
vga flag Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf
vga misc E3
vga feature 00
vga sequencer 03 01 0F 00 0A
vga crt 5F 4F 52 9F 53 1F20B 3E - 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00
1EB 2D1DF 50 601EB1EC A3 -7FF
vga graphics 00 00 00 00 00 50 05 0F - FF
vga attribute 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 - 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
41 FF 0F 00 00
vga virtual 640 480
vga panning off
vga clock[0] f 52350846
vga clock[0] d i m 0 0 - 64
vga clock[0] n p q r 234 2 - 0 0
vga vm a b 16777216 0
vga vmz 8388608
vga apz 8388608
vga linear 1
mach64xx->dump
mach64xx flag Ulinear|Uenhanced|Fdump|Finit|Fsnarf
mach64xx pci 4b528 io 9000 pciregs
mach64xx ccru 300
mach64xx HTotalDisp 004F0063
mach64xx HSyncStrtWid 000C0052
mach64xx VTotalDisp 01DF020C
mach64xx VSyncStrtWid 000201EA
mach64xx VlineCrntVline 00E303FF
mach64xx OffPitch 14000000
mach64xx IntCntl 00000000
mach64xx CrtcGenCntl 03002200
mach64xx OvrClr 00000000
mach64xx OvrWidLR 00000000
mach64xx OvrWidTB 00000000
mach64xx CurClr0 47295315
mach64xx CurClr1 D28AD72E
mach64xx CurOffset 00000000
mach64xx CurHVposn 00000000
mach64xx CurHVoff 00000000
mach64xx ScratchReg0 04100400
mach64xx ScratchReg1 00000000
mach64xx ClockCntl 00000002
mach64xx BusCntl 7333A001
mach64xx MemCntl 10C57A3B
mach64xx ExtMemCntl E0000C81
mach64xx MemVgaWpSel 00010000
mach64xx MemVgaRpSel 00010000
mach64xx DacRegs 00FF0240
mach64xx DacCntl 8601200A
mach64xx GenTestCntl 00000000
mach64xx ConfigCntl 00000000
mach64xx ConfigChipId 64004C4D
mach64xx ConfigStat0 00C00094
mach64xx ConfigStat1 00000000
mach64xx ConfigStat2 00000000
mach64xx DspConfig 007A056E
mach64xx DspOnOff 00000000
mach64xx DpBkgdClr FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpChainMsk FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpFrgdClr FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpMix FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpPixWidth 00020202
mach64xx DpSrc FFFFFFFF
mach64xx DpWriteMsk FFFFFFFF
mach64xx LcdIndex 00000401
mach64xx LcdData 407524DE
mach64xx PLL AC AC 40 4C 87 03 D5 EA - EA EA 00 89 80 1B 00 00
0E C7 40 00 50 F6 AC 03 - 40 00 24 FD 00 00 00 02
mach64xx LCD ConfigPanel 000342F4
mach64xx LCD GenCntl 407520DA
mach64xx LCD DstnCntl 00000000
mach64xx LCD HfbPitchAddr 00000F00
mach64xx LCD HorzStretch EAE00750
mach64xx LCD VertStretch C00001D4
mach64xx LCD ExtVertStretch 0020CA00
mach64xx LCD LtGio 00006000
mach64xx LCD PowerMngmnt 0200040B
mach64xx LCD ZvgPio 0A000000
mach64xx VCLK0 52350846
mach64xx VCLK1 52350846
mach64xx VCLK2 52350846
mach64xx VCLK3 0

rom table offset 10E
freq table offset A1A
memclk 125000000
ref_freq 29500000
ref_divider 64
min_freq 9840000
max_freq 236000000
pd 1 value 0 (|1)
post = 2
mach64xx pixel clock = 215710000

main->exits


On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 j...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote:

> is there a pciout.txt file on the floppy?
> if we had the pci device id then maybe we could tell
> you if there's any hope.
>
> --jim
>

C H Forsyth

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Aug 7, 2003, 2:03:36 PM8/7/03
to
yes, once i manage to copy the essential boot diskette
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