Win7 client -> eCS share

[Marcel Müller]

Did anyone succeed to connect a Win7 (Pro) client to an eCS share? I did
not get over error 5 (access denied). I already changed the registry
entry to enable Win7 to send LM authentications. But this did not help.

I did some network traces. The logon packets of Win7 look almost
identical to them of another eCS client that can successfully connect to
the share, except for the LM encrypted password which is different on
any logon, of course. But to the eCS client the eCS server reply is
always OK while to Win7 it is always error 5.

Up to XP there were no such problems, but XP has gone.


Marcel

[Jose Vicente]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 08:33:32 UTC, Marcel Müller
<news.5...@spamgourmet.org> wrote:


http://www.eracc.com/content/ecs-samba-client-windows-7-professional

--

[Doug Bissett]

It works fine, when eCS is running the SAMBA server.

> http://svn.netlabs.org/samba

The hard part is trying to figure out which parts of SAMBA that you
need.

I use these:

> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/samba-1-1-4-804.wpi

> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rxlib4smb.wpi

and this, IF you don't use RPM/YUM:

> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rpmsubset4smb.zip

You may need other prereqs, if your system is not up to date. You may
also need to undo whatever you did to windows.

READ the instructions...

HTH...
--
From the eComStation of Doug Bissett
dougb007 at telus dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)

[Marcel Müller]

On 25.12.13 17.41, Doug Bissett wrote:
> It works fine, when eCS is running the SAMBA server.

Hmm, I never got anything useful out of samba on the eCS machines. The
client required Netdrive (which I do not have, do not like and do not
want) and it crashed all the time. EAs did not work correctly too. IBM
Peer in contrast has it's restrictions, but within that it is very reliable.

So even if the server most likely does not share this problems I need to
disable IBM Peer to get the samba server up. So I need the client too to
use the server.

> The hard part is trying to figure out which parts of SAMBA that you
> need.

?

> I use these:
>
>> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/samba-1-1-4-804.wpi
>
>> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rxlib4smb.wpi
>
> and this, IF you don't use RPM/YUM:
>
>> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rpmsubset4smb.zip
>
> You may need other prereqs, if your system is not up to date.

Well, I should have mentioned that is is eCS 1.05 - not that up to date.
But beyond that recent libraries like libc065 should be in place.

But before I go this way I need to solve the client issue and test the
it well.


Marcel

[Marcel Müller]

On 25.12.13 10.55, Jose Vicente wrote:
> http://www.eracc.com/content/ecs-samba-client-windows-7-professional

The other way around.


Marcel

[ivan]

I have SAMBA and IBM Peer working side by side on my main OS/2
machine.

SAMBA connects to to the various NAS boxes while IBM Peer connects to
the other OS/2 machines.

It would be nice if I could get printing to work over SAMBA because a
couple of the NAS boxes act as print servers for when I need to do any
printing. As far as I know it should work but the documentation
leaves a lot to be desired and says nothing about how to set up
printing.


ivan
--

[Doug Bissett]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:47:04 UTC, Marcel M�ller
<news.5...@spamgourmet.org> wrote:

> On 25.12.13 17.41, Doug Bissett wrote:
> > It works fine, when eCS is running the SAMBA server.
>
> Hmm, I never got anything useful out of samba on the eCS machines. The
> client required Netdrive (which I do not have, do not like and do not
> want) and it crashed all the time. EAs did not work correctly too. IBM
> Peer in contrast has it's restrictions, but within that it is very reliable.

The latest SAMBA seems to have fixed most of the problems that older
versions had, although I think that EAs are restricted to 32K, while
OS/2 wil use 64K EAs. The only place where EAs are essential is for
the desktop, I have always found that the rest of them will be
recreated, if the program thinks they are needed.

The client needs either netdrive, or EVFS (look for EVFS.IFS), which
is part of eCS (perhaps not the ancient version that you have, I don't
remember). The client is also completely separate from the SAMBA
server, and it can be used at the same time as the old NETBIOS over
TCP/IP.

You can also run SAMBA server, along side of PEER, as long as you use
NETBIOS, and not NETBIOS over TCP/IP. I am not sure what complications
you might run into, if you do that, and not all devices will pass the
netbios packets.

> So even if the server most likely does not share this problems I need to
> disable IBM Peer to get the samba server up. So I need the client too to
> use the server.

There is a way to use PEER with a SAMBA server (not on the same
machine), but I don't recommend it.

>
> > The hard part is trying to figure out which parts of SAMBA that you
> > need.
>
> ?
>
> > I use these:
> >
> >> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/samba-1-1-4-804.wpi
> >
> >> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rxlib4smb.wpi
> >
> > and this, IF you don't use RPM/YUM:
> >
> >> ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/pub/samba/server/rpmsubset4smb.zip
> >
> > You may need other prereqs, if your system is not up to date.
>
> Well, I should have mentioned that is is eCS 1.05 - not that up to date.
> But beyond that recent libraries like libc065 should be in place.

That is the update that I mean. You also need the freely available
stuff that is listed near the top of the SAMBA SVN page.

> But before I go this way I need to solve the client issue and test the
> it well.

If you have, or can get, EVFS.IFS (it is a sub set of NETDRIVE), you
should be able to get the client, and use it with your current PEER
network. If that will work, you can use that to log onto your Win 7
machines, but the Win 7 machines still can't log onto your PEER
machines.

>
> Marcel

I never got Win7 Home to log onto the old PEER network, even after
doing a LOT of messing around. I think I got Win 7 PRO to do it, at
one point, but that didn't solve the problem with Win 7 Home, or
transfering files larger than 2 GB. SAMBA is the easy way to do it.

There is also the old NETBEUI support for windows. I have heard that
it can be installed on Win 7, but I never tried it. I got it at:

> http://www.88watts.net/download/netbeui.zip

I am pretty sure that it is still there. Of course, you would need to
install NETBIOS on your OS/2 machines for that to work (you can have
both NETBIOS, and NETBIOS over TCP/IP), and you may have problems with
other devices (routers, or wireless) not passing netbios packets.

[Doug Bissett]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:18:06 UTC, "ivan" <iva...@free.fr> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:47:04 UTC, Marcel M�ller

I haven't done what you want to do, but you should be able to set up a
normal printer, then change the output port to an SMB port (you need
SMB.PDR). However, you might need to use one of the other protocols,
like LPD or LPR. That information should be in the NAS documentation.

[Marcel Müller]

On 25.12.13 23.01, Doug Bissett wrote:
> The latest SAMBA seems to have fixed most of the problems that older
> versions had, although I think that EAs are restricted to 32K, while
> OS/2 wil use 64K EAs. The only place where EAs are essential is for
> the desktop, I have always found that the rest of them will be
> recreated, if the program thinks they are needed.

REXX crashes on large scripts when EAs are restricted to less than 64k.
Without any EAs REXX is only a bit slower because it cannot store the
results from the compiler. But without EAs the desktop cannot store
folder settings and it does not remember file types (.TYPE EA).
Furthermore thumbnails of images are recreated all the time, incredibly
slow over the network. So one usually don't want to use an OS/2 client
without EAs.
(Using OS/2 as server for other OS the story is different.)

> The client needs either netdrive, or EVFS (look for EVFS.IFS), which
> is part of eCS (perhaps not the ancient version that you have, I don't
> remember).

No EVFS here. Never heard of that before.

> The client is also completely separate from the SAMBA
> server, and it can be used at the same time as the old NETBIOS over
> TCP/IP.

The /client/ can safely run in parallel to IBM Peer. But the server
cannot run this way, because only one process can listen on the SMB ports.

> You can also run SAMBA server, along side of PEER, as long as you use
> NETBIOS, and not NETBIOS over TCP/IP.

NETBIOS is dead. Almost no one can connect to a NETBIOS server anymore.
No Linux, no recent Win.

>> So even if the server most likely does not share this problems I need to
>> disable IBM Peer to get the samba server up. So I need the client too to
>> use the server.
>
> There is a way to use PEER with a SAMBA server (not on the same
> machine), but I don't recommend it.

What do you mean with 'there is a way'? I am running IBM Peer against
Samba 3.6.6 (Debian) all the time. It works just fine. Only Thunderbird
seems to dislike this combination since version 3.something. If the
profile directory is on a Samba share TB is incredibly slow due to heavy
network traffic.

>>> You may need other prereqs, if your system is not up to date.
>>
>> Well, I should have mentioned that is is eCS 1.05 - not that up to date.
>> But beyond that recent libraries like libc065 should be in place.
>
> That is the update that I mean. You also need the freely available
> stuff that is listed near the top of the SAMBA SVN page.

I think this should be no serious problem. Netdrive is the weak link and
EVFS seem not to be an option for me. I guess it requires an eCS 2 license.

> I never got Win7 Home to log onto the old PEER network, even after
> doing a LOT of messing around. I think I got Win 7 PRO to do it, at

I have only the pro version.

> one point, but that didn't solve the problem with Win 7 Home, or
> transfering files larger than 2 GB. SAMBA is the easy way to do it.

The 2GB limit is final to IBM Peer. But this is no big deal. What should
eCS do with larger files. The only thing I can think of is to play a
large video. But all of my eCS machines are VMs on a headless server.
And playing large videos in a VM over RDP is an amazingly bad idea.

> There is also the old NETBEUI support for windows. I have heard that
> it can be installed on Win 7, but I never tried it.

In our company they failed to reliably connect from a W2k3 Server to an
old DOS check-out over NETBIOS with this old driver. They ended up by
running an NT4 VM as bridge on the server because the POS software
needed too much DOS memory to run in parallel with an IP stack. I would
wonder if W2k8 aka Win7 is reliable with this driver.

> I am pretty sure that it is still there. Of course, you would need to
> install NETBIOS on your OS/2 machines for that to work (you can have
> both NETBIOS, and NETBIOS over TCP/IP), and you may have problems with
> other devices (routers, or wireless) not passing netbios packets.

I won't experiment with NETBIOS anymore. I disabled it more than 10
years ago for several good reasons.


Marcel

[Peter Brown]

Hi ivan

Is it possible to use the SLPR port to print to your NAS print servers?


Regards

Pete

[Doug Bissett]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 23:49:25 UTC, Marcel M�ller
<news.5...@spamgourmet.org> wrote:

> On 25.12.13 23.01, Doug Bissett wrote:
> > The latest SAMBA seems to have fixed most of the problems that older
> > versions had, although I think that EAs are restricted to 32K, while
> > OS/2 wil use 64K EAs. The only place where EAs are essential is for
> > the desktop, I have always found that the rest of them will be
> > recreated, if the program thinks they are needed.
>
> REXX crashes on large scripts when EAs are restricted to less than 64k.
> Without any EAs REXX is only a bit slower because it cannot store the
> results from the compiler. But without EAs the desktop cannot store
> folder settings and it does not remember file types (.TYPE EA).
> Furthermore thumbnails of images are recreated all the time, incredibly
> slow over the network. So one usually don't want to use an OS/2 client
> without EAs.
> (Using OS/2 as server for other OS the story is different.)

Are you actually using a remote computer to store the OS/2 desktop? I
would think that would be a bit risky. I never considered using REXX
over the network either. I do use pictures and movies over the
network, with no trouble. The icons don't show the picture, but
performance is not an issue. I do have a 1 Gbs network. I haven't
tried that using a virtual machine, but it should not be any
different, as long as the network runs at 1 Gbs, and the machine is
capable of doing the necessary processing.

> > The client needs either netdrive, or EVFS (look for EVFS.IFS), which
> > is part of eCS (perhaps not the ancient version that you have, I don't
> > remember).
>
> No EVFS here. Never heard of that before.

I don't remember which version of eCS first had that.

Recently, I have been using ZIP/UNZIP for my backups. I use the
versions that do support files larger than 2 GB. I actually use RSync
to transfer those files to other machines, but I can also do it with
SAMBA, and Peter Moylan's FTP program. Even with a 1Gbs network, it
takes a while to transfer those large files.

> > There is also the old NETBEUI support for windows. I have heard that
> > it can be installed on Win 7, but I never tried it.
>
> In our company they failed to reliably connect from a W2k3 Server to an
> old DOS check-out over NETBIOS with this old driver. They ended up by
> running an NT4 VM as bridge on the server because the POS software
> needed too much DOS memory to run in parallel with an IP stack. I would
> wonder if W2k8 aka Win7 is reliable with this driver.
>
> > I am pretty sure that it is still there. Of course, you would need to
> > install NETBIOS on your OS/2 machines for that to work (you can have
> > both NETBIOS, and NETBIOS over TCP/IP), and you may have problems with
> > other devices (routers, or wireless) not passing netbios packets.
>
> I won't experiment with NETBIOS anymore. I disabled it more than 10
> years ago for several good reasons.
>
>
> Marcel

Maybe somebody else can suggest something. My only suggestion is to
get a later version of eCS, with support for the SAMBA client, or get
netdrive so you can use the client that way. Win7, and 8, are not user
friendly when it comes to communicating with other operating systems
(they even cause troubles for older versions of windows). The old OS/2
networking is obsolete, and the best that we have now is SAMBA. If
that fails to do the job, you are left high and dry, mostly thanks to
Microsoft, but partly because OS/2 uses EAs that are not entirely
compatible with other operating systems, so they are not fully
supported by the tools (SAMBA) that are ported from them.

[Marcel Müller]

On 26.12.13 21.04, Doug Bissett wrote:
> Are you actually using a remote computer to store the OS/2 desktop? I
> would think that would be a bit risky.

No the desktop is local, but any user data is on the file server.

> I never considered using REXX
> over the network either.

Well, scripts are sometimes user data too.

> I do use pictures and movies over the
> network, with no trouble. The icons don't show the picture, but
> performance is not an issue.

It depends on the application. Some show thumbnails also if they can't
be written. Of course, the PMSHELL does not.

> I do have a 1 Gbs network.

Same here, but it is virtual, too. The file server is on the same VM host.

> I haven't
> tried that using a virtual machine, but it should not be any
> different, as long as the network runs at 1 Gbs, and the machine is
> capable of doing the necessary processing.

VMs are slower in I/O throughput, that's it mainly.

> Maybe somebody else can suggest something. My only suggestion is to
> get a later version of eCS,

I will neither spend much money nor much time in the OS/2 system
anymore. I can't ignore that it is going to die sooner or later.

> with support for the SAMBA client, or get
> netdrive so you can use the client that way. Win7, and 8, are not user
> friendly when it comes to communicating with other operating systems

Up to XP is by far more reliable in communicating over old protocols
than samba ever has been. I had to do source code patches to almost all
samba versions when communicating with LANMAN2. With WinNT up to XP it
always worked out of the box.
Of course, samba performs better if it is on both ends of the line. And
definitely it outperforms IBM Peer with features.

> (they even cause troubles for older versions of windows). The old OS/2
> networking is obsolete, and the best that we have now is SAMBA.

ACK.

> If
> that fails to do the job, you are left high and dry, mostly thanks to
> Microsoft, but partly because OS/2 uses EAs that are not entirely
> compatible with other operating systems, so they are not fully
> supported by the tools (SAMBA) that are ported from them.

AFAIK EAs are working with samba - except for bugs, of course. I use
them really intensely. Indeed only with the samba server not the client.


Marcel

[ivan]

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 22:01:35 UTC, "Doug Bissett"
<dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 19:18:06 UTC, "ivan" <iva...@free.fr> wrote:
>

> > On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 17:47:04 UTC, Marcel M�ller

Thanks Doug, I have tried everything and nothing works from OS/2. I
think the problem may be that the NAS boxes require a user name and
password to gain access - necessary because they are on an outward
facing network (not my idea).

At the moment I am using a very striped down version of XP in a VM to
do the printing and that works without any problems.

ivan
--

[Doug Bissett]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 21:05:15 UTC, Marcel M�ller
<news.5...@spamgourmet.org> wrote:

> On 26.12.13 21.04, Doug Bissett wrote:
> > Are you actually using a remote computer to store the OS/2 desktop? I
> > would think that would be a bit risky.
>
> No the desktop is local, but any user data is on the file server.
>
> > I never considered using REXX
> > over the network either.
>
> Well, scripts are sometimes user data too.
>
> > I do use pictures and movies over the
> > network, with no trouble. The icons don't show the picture, but
> > performance is not an issue.
>
> It depends on the application. Some show thumbnails also if they can't
> be written. Of course, the PMSHELL does not.

My main application that uses EAs, is PMView. It seems to be smart
enough to handle whatever I throw at it.

> > I do have a 1 Gbs network.
>
> Same here, but it is virtual, too. The file server is on the same VM host.
>
> > I haven't
> > tried that using a virtual machine, but it should not be any
> > different, as long as the network runs at 1 Gbs, and the machine is
> > capable of doing the necessary processing.
>
> VMs are slower in I/O throughput, that's it mainly.
>
> > Maybe somebody else can suggest something. My only suggestion is to
> > get a later version of eCS,
>
> I will neither spend much money nor much time in the OS/2 system
> anymore. I can't ignore that it is going to die sooner or later.

I think that Mensys is doing a pretty good job of keeping it going.
Too bad that so many people bailed out. I can see eCS surviving for a
long time, in virtual machines. It seems to be impossible to keep up
with new hardware, although, the few people who are (capable of)
working on it are doing wonderful things.

> > with support for the SAMBA client, or get
> > netdrive so you can use the client that way. Win7, and 8, are not user
> > friendly when it comes to communicating with other operating systems
>
> Up to XP is by far more reliable in communicating over old protocols
> than samba ever has been. I had to do source code patches to almost all
> samba versions when communicating with LANMAN2. With WinNT up to XP it
> always worked out of the box.
> Of course, samba performs better if it is on both ends of the line. And
> definitely it outperforms IBM Peer with features.

SAMBA (server, and client), in the last year, has improved a lot. I am
not even sure that the EA restictions still exist (I see no mention of
it at the netlabs SVN site).

> > (they even cause troubles for older versions of windows). The old OS/2
> > networking is obsolete, and the best that we have now is SAMBA.
>
> ACK.
>
> > If
> > that fails to do the job, you are left high and dry, mostly thanks to
> > Microsoft, but partly because OS/2 uses EAs that are not entirely
> > compatible with other operating systems, so they are not fully
> > supported by the tools (SAMBA) that are ported from them.
>
> AFAIK EAs are working with samba - except for bugs, of course. I use
> them really intensely. Indeed only with the samba server not the client.

In fact, it looks like EAs are fully supported. I am using PMView to
look at a directory filled with photos, on another eCS machine. The
icons show the pictures. Whether that really means anything, or not, I
am not sure.

>
> Marcel