More stuff gone!
Marc Lewis
* Original message posted in: OS2.
* Crossposted in: COMP-OS2-MISC.
Hello All.
Here's a disturbing e-mail from Norman Data Defense (Norman VC
for OS/2):
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
From: Marc Lewis <marc.lewis@=-=-=-=-.com>
To: nor...@norman.com
Cc: Sup...@norman.com
Date: 09/25/2008 07:47 PM
Subject: Query about my license renewal.
=-=-=BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=-=-=
Hash: SHA1
Hello,
I have just renewed my Norman Virus Control for OS/2 license via
your Digital River link. I now note that you apparently no
longer support the OS/2 product on your web site. Does that
imply that there will no longer be virus definition updates
available for my OS/2 version of your product?
(If you have in fact stopped update support for the OS/2 version
of Norman V.C. I would have to request a refund of the renewal
fee I have just submitted... But hopefully that won't be the
case!) Please advise.
Sincere thanks.
-
*****************************************
* Best regards,
* Marc.
[SNIP]
To : marc.lewis@=-=-=-=-=-.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Fw: Query about my license renewal.
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.1 February 07, 2008
From: Jermain...@norman.com
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:10:28 -0400
Hi,
OS/2 downloads and support for OS/2 have been discontinued.
Your refund is being processed. We apologize for any
inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.
Best Regards,
Jermaine Lowery
Channel Account Representative
Norman Data Defense Systems, Inc.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
Odd that ECS current release (2.0RC5) ships _with_ Norman VC as
an installable option.
Anyone have any further info for alternate virus control for
OS/2 systems?
Best regards,
Marc
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Meridian, MS - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PaulRS
> Subject: Re: Fw: Query about my license renewal.
> X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.1 February 07, 2008
> From: Jermain...@norman.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:10:28 -0400
> Hi,
>
> OS/2 downloads and support for OS/2 have been discontinued.
> Your refund is being processed. We apologize for any
> inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jermaine Lowery
> Channel Account Representative
> Norman Data Defense Systems, Inc.
> -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
>
> Odd that ECS current release (2.0RC5) ships _with_ Norman VC as
> an installable option.
>
> Anyone have any further info for alternate virus control for
> OS/2 systems?
>
> Best regards,
> Marc
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + The FidoNet News Gate (Meridian, MS - USA) +
> + The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
- I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
the few blessings of a discontinued OS.
Doug Bissett
wrote:
> Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
> of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
> - I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
> is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
> the few blessings of a discontinued OS.
The end of NVC for OS/2 was announced long ago. It was mostly unusable
at the time anyway, even the windows version is unusable, unless you
have XP (or, I would assume VISTA), and a very powerful system to run
it. I (and all of my friends, who run windows XP, or later), now use
FREE AVG. Those who use older versions of windows, use AVST!. WIth eCS
(or OS/2), the answer is ClamAV. ClamAV is missing an "on demand"
scanner, but it will scan individual files, folders, or whole drives.
To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
affect eCS, unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
A virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do, but that doesn't
mean that it can't cause trouble. I suspect that many unexplained
system crashes may be caused by viruses trying to do something.
The main exposure is that it is pretty easy to pass along a virus, to
some poor, unsuspecting, windows user, and they have enough problems,
without one of us causing more problems for them. It is not always
obvious, that something contains a virus, and many new viruses do
nothing obvious, at all anyway. All they do, is sit in the background,
waiting for a user to enter a user ID, and password, to their bank
account, then they send that information to someone who won't mind
using it for their own advantage. Assuming that you will spot
something like that, without help, is silly.
Anyway:
> http://free.avg.com/download-avg-anti-virus-free-edition
> http://web.os2power.com/yuri/ClamAV
> http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/util/virus/usingclamavr1.zip
--
From the eComStation 2.0 RC2 of Doug Bissett
dougb007 at telus dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)
Truth...@nospam.net
>On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:37:47 UTC, "PaulRS" <prs...@Zverizon.net> wrote:
>> Just an "experiencial" answer: It is too bad that the discontinuation
>> of OS/2 is now showing up in 3rd party support. On the positive side
>> - I would not worry too much about OS/2 virus control - after all who
>> is going to put in the work necessary for a discontinued OS. One of
>> the few blessings of a discontinued OS.
>The end of NVC for OS/2 was announced long ago. It was mostly unusable at
>the time anyway, even the windows version is unusable, unless you have
>XP (or, I would assume VISTA), and a very powerful system to run it. I
>(and all of my friends, who run windows XP, or later), now use FREE AVG.
>Those who use older versions of windows, use AVST!. WIth eCS (or OS/2),
>the answer is ClamAV. ClamAV is missing an "on demand" scanner, but it
>will scan individual files, folders, or whole drives.
>To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
>protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
>affect eCS, unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
>WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser
I keep seeing people say this about Odin -- but once for fun, I tried to
open a file with a windows virus. I've also done with with emails.
Nothing happened.
I really think its another case of much ado about nothing.
Paul Ratcliffe
> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
> protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
> affect eCS
Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
each of these categories then?
> A virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do,
How do you know that?
> but that doesn't mean that it can't cause trouble.
What sort of trouble?
> I suspect that many unexplained system crashes may be caused by
> viruses trying to do something.
You mean "This is a completely random attempt at guessing that something
might be happening based on no evidence whatsoever and trying to fit some
symtoms of something or other to some unknown problem".
Otherwise known as Bullshit....
Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
Herwig Bauernfeind
>
>> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
>> protection, is very dangerous.
>> True, there are no known viruses that affect eCS
>
> Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
ACK.
It only makes sense to check EMails/Downloads that might end on a
Windows system IMHO. For that purpose ClamAV is good enough...
>> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
>> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
> So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
> each of these categories then?
I have one, at least :-)
At the time when Odin was alive I deliberately ran a program I knew that
it was infected by a (Windows) virus. I knew that it altered several
.DLLs on a genuine Windows system. I closely monitored what it did on
Odin: It changed one Odin .DLL by appending some stuff to it. It then
tried to patch the file (to apply an activation mechanism, I guessed).
That hung the process (I'd guess that a Windows virus is probably not
really capable to deal with LX executables found on a OS/2 system).
After that Odin did not work anymore, until I replaced the .DLL the
virus had changed, with the original one.
End of story.
Kind regards,
Herwig
HarryWho
gateway/server for my family. My kids and wife + friends all have WinXP
and their email accounts are all on my WSEB box. With no virus checking of
incoming e-mail it will render my WSEB useless.
Brendan McCullough
It would seem that ClamAV fits the bill then:
> Clam AntiVirus is a Open Source anti-virus toolkit for Unix like Operating Systems. This is made to integrate with mail servers for attachement scanning rather than to work on machines to scan resident files. It provides a flexible and scalable multi-threaded daemon, a command line scanner and a tool for automatic virus definitions update on the Internet. The virus database is kept updated and is freely downloadable. It ships with a library on which most of the programs are based. More information can be had from its site clamav.net
Trevor Hemsley
That's what clamav is for - at least on *ix systems, it has hooks in most mail
systems to allow for AV scanning but I have no idea if any of them have been
ported to OS/2.
--
Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com
Sean Dennis
In article <h3RzIfidE4OmdR...@trevor2.dsl.pipex.com>,
Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com says...
> That's what clamav is for - at least on *ix systems, it has hooks in most mail
> systems to allow for AV scanning but I have no idea if any of them have been
> ported to OS/2.
Using Weasel, you can easily have ClamAV set up to scan your messages.
I am not doing it currently, but if you read the Weasel documentation,
you can put it as a stage 6 filter and go from there.
FWIW, I've never, ever once used antivirus software on any of my OS/2-
eCS boxes in the 12 years I've been running OS/2. I've never needed it.
Later,
Sean
Mentore Siesto
> Using Weasel, you can easily have ClamAV set up to scan your messages.
> I am not doing it currently, but if you read the Weasel documentation,
> you can put it as a stage 6 filter and go from there.
>
> FWIW, I've never, ever once used antivirus software on any of my OS/2-
> eCS boxes in the 12 years I've been running OS/2. I've never needed it.
Nor I did. While anyone of my friends complains about virii and
malware, I keep going happily on my eCS box.
Mentore
Doug Bissett
<ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
absolutely disasterous, if you don't.
Paul Ratcliffe
>> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
>
> Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
> guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
> use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
> To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
> absolutely disasterous, if you don't.
No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.
If you continue to spout this crap, I will continue to debunk your
valueless claims.
Dave Yeo
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:26:50 GMT, Doug Bissett<dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
>> protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
>> affect eCS
Back in Warp 3 days I had a boot sector virus that showed up in DOS
sessions.
>
> Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
>
>> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
>> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
>
> So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
> each of these categories then?
Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet. Clamav doesn't find
anything. This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
session twice.
A while back there also was an exploit that
a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
stream browsers.
Dave
Steven Levine
NAV updates are still available. The .lin files supplied for Linux are
just renamed .zip files. The .lin files don't have OS/2 specific engine
updates, but you've been running NAV without any of these for many years.
I guess you've been lucky that your windows boxes have not been attacked
by any of the threats are are invisible to the NAV virus engine.
Steven
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Levine <ste...@earthlink.bogus.net> MR2/ICE 3.00.11.17 BETA #10183
eCS/Warp/DIY/14.103a_W4 www.scoug.com irc.ca.webbnet.info #scoug (Wed 7pm PST)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Bissett
That sounds, exactly, like what IBM said, years ago, when the first
virus wave hit DOS. It took IBM management about 3 months to
acknowledge that viruses existed, meanwhile, those who actually knew
something about PC software, jumped in, and built the first IBM
antivirus program, which solved the problem, at that time (and it
wasn't Microsoft who did it either, they were on IBM managements side,
and claimed viruses were impossible). I don't have the time, or the
interest, to quote specific examples of what viruses can, and will, do
to OS/2. Others are adding to this thread, describing a few things
that have happened to them. If YOU don't believe it, then YOU have
been VERY lucky that you haven't had a problem.
I have been using AV software, since the first IBM AV program became
available, and, even recently, I get the odd virus sent to me in
(usually, SPAM) e-mail. Without ClamAV (and NVC before that), I
probably wouldn't even realize that I got them. True, they never would
have done anything to an OS/2 program (other than, perhaps, cause an
abend, or a system crash), and it is very unlikely, that I would use
the files, in any way, but who knows what they could do to the windows
support (Innotek runtime, ODIN, WinOS2 etc.), if they ever got into
that stuff. I, for one, would much rather know that I have a bad file,
and immediately dispose of it, rather than depend on the OS/2
operating system to protect me from damage.
> If you continue to spout this crap, I will continue to debunk your
> valueless claims.
Say what you feel you must. It is YOU who have your head where the sun
don't shine, just like IBM management did, 20 odd years ago. It may
never actually happen, that a virus will actually operate in OS/2, but
it is all too easy to inadvertently pass one of those things to a
windows user, and I don't plan on doing that, if there is anything I
can do to reduce the possibility.
You do as you like. I look at virus protection, as cheap insurance.
You hope you never need it, but there will come a day, when you may be
thankful that you have it.
Trevor Hemsley
<dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 00:31:21 UTC, Paul Ratcliffe
> <ab...@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:33:42 GMT, Doug Bissett <dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Really, what a load of unsubstantiated old waffle. Just shut up will you.
> > >
> > > Paul, if YOU want to run without some sort of virus protection, be my
> > > guest. I will continue to advocate that ALL users, of EVERY OS, should
> > > use virus protection, whether it would seem to be necessary, or not.
> > > To do otherwise, is foolhardy, at best, and has the potential to be
> > > absolutely disasterous, if you don't.
> >
> > No it isn't. I note that you have sidestepped my questions and have been
> > unable to substantiate any of your wild claims with any hard evidence.
> > You have provided not one shred of anything. I think that speaks volumes,
> > but you've just got your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.
>
> That sounds, exactly, like what IBM said, years ago, when the first
> virus wave hit DOS.
The difference is that there are about 6 people in the world now with the
capability of writing such a thing for OS/2 and 5 and half of them are reading
this group and wouldn't do it anyway. The chances that any of the skript
kiddies is going to write a virus for OS/2 is slim - why would they bother with
such a thing when the total number of users they can expect to infect is
probably a number under 4 digits in length.
Peter Brown
Dave Yeo wrote:
> On 09/30/08 04:34 am, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:26:50 GMT, Doug
>> Bissett<dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
>>> protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
>>> affect eCS
>
> Back in Warp 3 days I had a boot sector virus that showed up in DOS
> sessions.
>
>>
>> Kinda pointless running a virus checker then.
>>
>>> unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
>>> WinOS2, or use e-mail, or use a web browser (or, who knows what else).
>>
>> So, you'll be able to give us at least 1 example of a virus that fits
>> each of these categories then?
>
> Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
> starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
> Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet.
My best guess: You have flash files (maybe *.flv) associated with
MPlayer but your system has got confused and thinks you mean mplayer.exe
included with winos2.
Clamav doesn't find
> anything.
Makes my guess a possibility :-)
This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
> session twice.
> A while back there also was an exploit that
> a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
> b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
> Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
> stream browsers.
> Dave
>
>
Silly me, I used to think Netscape was sort of mainstream... ;-)
I do agree there seem to more chances of getting win32 executables
downloaded onto your system that could be spyware/malware/whateverware.
Every now and again I have a cleanup of all the odd files that end up in
my %temp% directory. Occasionally I find a couple of unknown executable
files; clicking on them usually produces a DOS 23 error which is a good
clue that they are win32 executables. I think a recent file had a name
something like divx_update_codec.exe and another often spotted filename
is simply setup.exe
As I very rarely download anything "windows" I am guessing that these
odd files have arrived courtesy of my browser at some point without my
knowledge.
Regards
Pete
Truth...@nospam.net
There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?
In <SKfw30zmCGmZ-p...@blah.blah.com>, on 10/03/2008
Dave Yeo
> Hi Dave
>
> Dave Yeo wrote:
>> Right now if I go to http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/welcome/ something
>> starts up winos2 (win32s installed) which is identified as VDM\Proxy
>> Browser. I haven't been able to trace it down yet.
>
>
> My best guess: You have flash files (maybe *.flv) associated with
> MPlayer but your system has got confused and thinks you mean mplayer.exe
> included with winos2.
Don't remember associating flash with MPlayer but I will check it out.
The thing is the adobe site is pretty well the only one that triggers
this activity. Other Flash sites work as expected though I don't use
Flash much due to bandwidth limits.
>
>
> Clamav doesn't find
>> anything.
>
>
> Makes my guess a possibility :-)
I'm pretty sure I've still got some examples of viruses in my mail
folder that Clamav also never found and IIRC I have a test virus (right
signature, not an executable) still. Unluckily with todays huge drives
an amazing amount of cruft builds up and I've been slack in my house
cleaning.
>
>
> This makes my browser nonresponsive until I kill the VDM
>> session twice.
>> A while back there also was an exploit that
>> a) due to a bug did not work on OS/2
>> b) the author hard coded cmd.exe as C:\windows\cmd.exe
>> Exploits like this are a real possibility now that we are using main
>> stream browsers.
>> Dave
>>
>>
>
>
> Silly me, I used to think Netscape was sort of mainstream... ;-)
Yes I guess I should of worded that better. Mainstream browsers that
crackers are bothering to write exploits for :)
While I remember a couple of security updates for Netscape I don't
remember ever hearing of an exploit. Also our Netscape's were different
enough (old versions with newer fixes) that general exploits were less
likely to work.
>
> I do agree there seem to more chances of getting win32 executables
> downloaded onto your system that could be spyware/malware/whateverware.
>
> Every now and again I have a cleanup of all the odd files that end up in
> my %temp% directory. Occasionally I find a couple of unknown executable
> files; clicking on them usually produces a DOS 23 error which is a good
> clue that they are win32 executables. I think a recent file had a name
> something like divx_update_codec.exe and another often spotted filename
> is simply setup.exe
Yes I've had a couple of offers for codecs :) I have my %TEMP% on a ram
disk so a reboot always cleans it up.
I also notice that clamav didn't clean up after itself.
>
> As I very rarely download anything "windows" I am guessing that these
> odd files have arrived courtesy of my browser at some point without my
> knowledge.
>
Yes we are like everyone else now, having to do frequent updates for
security reasons.
> Regards
>
> Pete
Dave
Mentore Siesto
> There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
> OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?
The question is, is there some (theoretical) possibility that some
Windows / Mac / Linux virus might damage some OS/2 components?
Especially now that we rely so much on components like LIBC/kLIBC,
Mozilla and Odin/Innotek Runtime?
Some say yes, some say not. It's user's freedom and responsability to
choose if to use an antivirus program (and OS/2 has got at least two
of them native) or not, and take some risk.
It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing
these flames.
Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)
Mentore
Don Hills
"Mentore Siesto" <mentore...@libero.it> wrote:
>
>It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing
>these flames.
>
>Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)
First you try to extinguish a flame war, then you try to start another flame
war over top posting? You're a naughty boy. :-)
I asked the same question a while ago (why use antivirus?) and started a
similar... discussion.
I came away from it with a solution that fits my own purposes:
I don't use AV on my OS/2 machines, the risk to them is too low to make it
worth the time and effort.
I rarely transfer files to a Windows machine from an OS/2 machine. When I
do, I scan them on the Windows machine.
My reasoning is that the Windows machine has more up to date and
comprehensive anti-virus and anti-spyware software than is available for
OS/2, so it makes sense to do all my checking there. For example, I often
use my work laptop plugged into my home network. All files from untrusted
external sources (CDROMs, USB memory drives, all network except the work VPN
etc) are automatically scanned on access. Pre-scanning on the OS/2 machine
will not make the process significantly safer.
--
Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
"New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
-- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
Truth...@nospam.net
>On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 02:09:59 UTC, Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>> There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
>> OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?
>The question is, is there some (theoretical) possibility that some
>Windows / Mac / Linux virus might damage some OS/2 components?
>Especially now that we rely so much on components like LIBC/kLIBC,
>Mozilla and Odin/Innotek Runtime?
This is nonsense. I have actually tried to infect OS/2 and/or damage it
by opening files -- nothing happened. Zero. No effect, with Odin and the
rest of the components installed.
>Some say yes, some say not. It's user's freedom and responsability to
>choose if to use an antivirus program (and OS/2 has got at least two of
>them native) or not, and take some risk.
There is no risk. But hey people do have the right to live in an
alternate universe.
>It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing these
>flames.
>Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)
Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
>Mentore
Don Hills
Does that mean we should also give up on OS/2 and use Windows, OS X or
Linux?
For Usenet, the standard has always been guote first, then respond. If you
think this is non-standard, take a look at web-based forums, where most of
the users have never seen or used Usenet. They usually post "quote above,
response below" because it is the natural thing to do.
Quoting Microsoft Outlook style is an exception, not the rule.
--
Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
A: Because it is contrary to the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting, aka "Reply on top, full quotes below."
Q: What is the most annoying thing you can do on Usenet?
Doug Bissett
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> The difference is that there are about 6 people in the world now with the
> capability of writing such a thing for OS/2 and 5 and half of them are reading
> this group and wouldn't do it anyway. The chances that any of the skript
> kiddies is going to write a virus for OS/2 is slim - why would they bother with
> such a thing when the total number of users they can expect to infect is
> probably a number under 4 digits in length.
The problem is not that anyone would bother to write a virus for OS/2
(although it is known that running one, or more, of the windows
emulators might allow a virus to work). One of the problems is, that
some of the modern viruses are starting to use some basic networking
things, that might just work, as designed, since OS/2 networking is
pretty standard (although Microsoft is working hard to change that),
and tends to follow the rules. The internet browsers are also designed
to work, exactly the same as on windows, or Linux, so a virus designed
to work with them, may just work in OS/2. Then, there is the serious
problem of passing on a virus to others (notably windows users, but
there are Linux, and Mac viruses too), without realizing it. In most
cases, you cannot tell if a file is infected, simply by looking at it,
and the OS/2 tool used to look, may not notice an infection, so you
may just pass on that joke, that is infected, without even knowing it,
until the recipient has some money transfered out of his bank account,
a couple of weeks later.
Viruses are EVERYBODIES problem, whether the specific OS is, or can
be, affected, or not. The only hope, that we have, to eliminate (or
reduce to a minimum) the virus problem, is for EVERYBODY to use virus
detection, and remove anything that is infected, before it has a
chance to spread. Of course, that will never happen, but those of us
who do have the knowledge, and the tools, need to do all that we can
to stop, or, at least reduce, the problem.
Truth...@nospam.net
>In article <isJFk.576$yI6...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
>Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>>
>>Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
>Does that mean we should also give up on OS/2 and use Windows, OS X or
>Linux?
Stop taking things out of context to whine. Franky I don't care what
pleases or doesn't please you. I cite as I choose. Like it or lump it.
Trevor Hemsley
<dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
> those of us
> who do have the knowledge, and the tools, need to do all that we can
> to stop, or, at least reduce, the problem.
You have not a clue what you are talking about.
piesse
> There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
> OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?
>
Some of us (including myself) are running mail servers and mailing lists
used by users of other OS. We need the ability of protecting them from
getting infected anyway.
BTW Nonman AV has been lately the cause of severe system unstsbility,
and I already switched to Clamav (blessing to Yuri Dario!) months ago.
piersante
Allodoxaphobia
>(Don Hills) said:
>>Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>>>
>>>Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
>
>>Does that mean we should also give up on OS/2 and use Windows, OS X or
>>Linux?
>
> Stop taking things out of context to whine. Franky I don't care what
> pleases or doesn't please you. I cite as I choose.
> Like it or lump it.
Or, *plonk* it -- as I now chose to do.
Sean Dennis
black.ho...@gmail.com says...
> Quoting Microsoft Outlook style is an exception, not the rule.
It's just the inherent laziness of most computer users these days. Do
you expect an answer before you ask a question? Most top-posters I
write off as people who obviously don't know anything worthwhile since
they can't even bother to take the time to reply to a post of any type
logically. Since they can't use logic, they obviously don't know much
of anything that would be worth anything to someone who knows how to
reply the correct way.
On top of that, the inherent inability of some people in here to delete
quotes in messages that have nothing to do with the subject shows a lack
of intelligence too.
Those who don't bother to use their real names or a real email address
generally don't deserve responding to either.
Just my thoughts.
Later,
Sean
--
Sean Dennis * se...@nsbbs.info * http://nsbbs.info
Mentore Siesto
Hills) wrote:
> In article <d3bJSfyhVf8Y-pn2-mvPDZRK69JlC@neo>,
> "Mentore Siesto" <mentore...@libero.it> wrote:
> >
> >It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing
> >these flames.
> >
> >Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)
>
> First you try to extinguish a flame war, then you try to start another flame
> war over top posting? You're a naughty boy. :-)
I was born to be a Bad Boy (TM) :-)
> I asked the same question a while ago (why use antivirus?) and started a
> similar... discussion.
> I came away from it with a solution that fits my own purposes:
>
> I don't use AV on my OS/2 machines, the risk to them is too low to make it
> worth the time and effort.
> I rarely transfer files to a Windows machine from an OS/2 machine. When I
> do, I scan them on the Windows machine.
>
> My reasoning is that the Windows machine has more up to date and
> comprehensive anti-virus and anti-spyware software than is available for
> OS/2, so it makes sense to do all my checking there. For example, I often
> use my work laptop plugged into my home network. All files from untrusted
> external sources (CDROMs, USB memory drives, all network except the work VPN
> etc) are automatically scanned on access. Pre-scanning on the OS/2 machine
> will not make the process significantly safer.
Viruses are imho everybody's problem. I tend not to use antivirus
software on my OS/2 machines, because a) I use only standard sources,
b) try to download only useful (for me) things (mainly development
tools), c) do use Windows only at work and d) NEVER connect my only
Windows machine to the 'net.
Said that, I'm thinking about using ClamAV on eCS, because interaction
between my machines is increasing, and I frequently transfer some work
to and from a Windows machine I use at work. It's so ugly, btw.
It's just a choice, I don't see why someone should argue or fight with
anyone around.
Mentore
Mentore Siesto
> In <d3bJSfyhVf8Y-pn2-mvpdzrk69jlc@neo>, on 10/04/2008
> at 06:49 AM, "Mentore Siesto" <mentore...@libero.it> said:
>
>
>
> >On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 02:09:59 UTC, Truth...@nospam.net wrote:
>
> >> There is no OS/2 virus anywhere. Windows virus do not do anything to
> >> OS/2. Why do you keep believing there is something to worry about?
>
> >The question is, is there some (theoretical) possibility that some
> >Windows / Mac / Linux virus might damage some OS/2 components?
> >Especially now that we rely so much on components like LIBC/kLIBC,
> >Mozilla and Odin/Innotek Runtime?
>
> This is nonsense. I have actually tried to infect OS/2 and/or damage it
> by opening files -- nothing happened. Zero. No effect, with Odin and the
> rest of the components installed.
And I see that this is good, really good. But alas, there's not only
this. Mozilla and other software (I'm thinking of OpenOffice) is using
various middleware and specific API, which are subjected to exploits.
You surely read many reports about upgrading Thunderbird / Firefox /
Seamonkey releases, due to vulnerabilities.... Some of them have been
reported NOT to work on OS/2 (and this is just another Good Thing),
but we have always been told to upgrade "Just in case".
> >Some say yes, some say not. It's user's freedom and responsability to
> >choose if to use an antivirus program (and OS/2 has got at least two of
> >them native) or not, and take some risk.
>
> There is no risk. But hey people do have the right to live in an
> alternate universe.
There is no risk until you find a risk. You see, the OS/2 structure is
*really* robust, even more than we think about. This is due to the
hard work done from 2.11 to Warp 3 and 4, and I'm so happy this is so
robust we can even run OS/2 on modern machines. But: is it really
invulnerable? No. This is true at least with respect to TCP/IP and
NetBIOS.
> >It's such a simple question I can't understand why this is causing these
> >flames.
>
> >Btw, could you reply in a not-Outlook way? Thanks in advance :-)
>
> Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
I hate to see answers before questions...
Mentore
Doug Bissett
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 14:55:58 UTC in comp.os.os2.misc, "Doug Bissett"
> <dougb007!SP...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > those of us
> > who do have the knowledge, and the tools, need to do all that we can
> > to stop, or, at least reduce, the problem.
>
> You have not a clue what you are talking about.
I do know what I am talking about. True, stopping just one virus, at a
local level, doesn't help much, but every one that gets stopped is one
less that will spread further, and that could help many people
downstream, whether you believe it, or not.
Shmuel Metz
at 02:55 PM, "Doug Bissett" <dougb007!SP...@telus.net> said:
>Viruses are EVERYBODIES problem, whether the specific OS is, or can be,
>affected, or not. The only hope, that we have, to eliminate (or reduce
>to a minimum) the virus problem, is for EVERYBODY to use virus
>detection, and remove anything that is infected, before it has a chance
>to spread.
Nonsense; virus and worm infestations depend on security flaws in the OS
and applications; an application or OS without the security flaws is not
vulnerable. An application or OS with security flaws will be vulnerable
to new attack vectors even if you run a virus scan. The only way to get
rid of the problem is to get rid of the vulnerabilities. That includes
getting rid of protocols that depend on executing externally supplied code
outside of a sandbox.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
Shmuel Metz
at 12:37 PM, Truth...@nospam.net said:
>Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
K3wl. Now if only you know what "there rest of the world" is doing. There
is no standard specifying top posting, and quite a bit of material saying
to not do it. Have you ever been asked to review a document? Try putting
all of your comments at the top, followed by a quote of the entire
document, and see what kind of response you get.
Post top don't please.
Mike Luther
Steven Levine wrote:
>
> NAV updates are still available. The .lin files supplied for Linux are
> just renamed .zip files. The .lin files don't have OS/2 specific engine
> updates, but you've been running NAV without any of these for many years.
> I guess you've been lucky that your windows boxes have not been attacked
> by any of the threats are are invisible to the NAV virus engine.
I wonder. Do these same .ZIP files exist on the WIN-XP version of whatever? I
have two mobile drive trays here for pure research purposes only. One of them
has NVC on it and is current as to updates and will remain that way as to paid
for in-advance service for a good while yet. Do you happen to know if the .ZIP
files are the same there?
Currently, as best I know, the following files are important to the update of
the NVC product:
> 1-08-08 1:06p 526411 0 NSE_OS2.DLL
> 6-24-08 9:43a 20676534 0 NVCBIN.DEF
> 4-01-08 1:29a 28112 0 Nvcincr.def
> 3-31-08 2:33p 401976 0 NVCMACRO.DEF
Obviously, the NSE_OS2.DLL isn't going to be a change item. As well, the issue
with the whole collapse of this issue, as far as I know, was focused on an
update of the NVCMACRO.DEF file dated on 3-31-08, together with the Nvcincr.def
file dated 4-01-08 above. Here, when they released an update of those files,
the whole operation blew up for all instances of any incremental updates. They
were able to restore system operations only by focusing on a complete download
of the large NVCBIN.DEF file, which would and will work with the older smaller
files here.
I was able to restore serviceability for the whole system with the above
components through the final release date for serviced code.
Can you teach us what a corresponding 'set' of files and dates might be to
enable at least some on-going use of the product? Of course, with no guarantee
by Norman that this would work.
Curious mind wants to know.
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)
Mike Luther
Truth...@nospam.net
In <48e7fe23$2$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>, on 10/04/2008
at 07:37 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> said:
>In <isJFk.576$yI6...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, on 10/04/2008
> at 12:37 PM, Truth...@nospam.net said:
>>Its time to get on board with standards used in the rest of the world.
>K3wl. Now if only you know what "there rest of the world" is doing.
Really? People in business and government top post all the time. Have
been for years. End of discussion.
Steven Levine
at 01:44 AM, Mike Luther <mike....@ziplog.com> said:
Hi,
>I wonder. Do these same .ZIP files exist on the WIN-XP version of
>whatever?
I don't know, although I suspect the answer is no. I imagine MS would
require vendors to use something MSI compatible.
The link to the zip file you need to update NAV is
The REXX script that grabs and installs the updates uses an unzip command
of the form
'unzip -jo' ZipName '-d' unzipDir' -x *.so'
since eCS/OS2 does not need the .so files. unzipDir points to the NAV
Incoming directory.
>Do you happen to know if the .ZIP files are the same there?
Nope. I have never used NVC.
Shmuel Metz
at 11:26 PM, "Doug Bissett" <dougb007!SP...@telus.net> said:
>To assume that an eCS, or OS/2, user doesn't need some sort of virus
>protection, is very dangerous. True, there are no known viruses that
>affect eCS, unless you run ODIN, or use the innotek runtime, or use
>WinOS2, or use e-mail,
Please name a virus that can infect my system when I use e-mail.
>A virus is unlikely to do what it was designed to do, but that doesn't
>mean that it can't cause trouble.
Someone has to execute it before it can cause trouble. That typically
means a client that automatically launches susceptible applications.
Mike Luther
Steven Levine wrote:
> I don't know, although I suspect the answer is no. I imagine MS would
> require vendors to use something MSI compatible.
>
> The link to the zip file you need to update NAV is
>
> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/antivirus_definitions/norton_antivirus/rapidrelease/ennlu.lin
> Nope. I have never used NVC.
My error! Norman is not Norton. Sorry, I've been a bad puppy here on this one.
Shmuel Metz
at 09:40 AM, Truth...@nospam.net said:
>Really? People in business and government top post all the time.
ROTF,LMAO. You wrote "the rest of the world", and that includes a lot more
than the people in business and government. For that matter, not all of
the people in business and government top post.
>Have been for years.
Some have, some haven't.
>End of discussion.
Only if the topic is whether you are confused about the difference between
existential and universal quantifiers.
Truth...@nospam.net
Get over your bullshit. The fact is you characters know that I'm right
about lack of a virus threat for OS2, but you people being what you are --
have found another non-issue to whine about -- instead of just shutting up
and learning when your wrong.
In <48f2762a$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>, on 10/12/2008
at 06:11 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
Mentore Siesto
> Get over your bullshit. The fact is you characters know that I'm right
> about lack of a virus threat for OS2, but you people being what you are --
> have found another non-issue to whine about -- instead of just shutting up
> and learning when your wrong.
I'm afraid I know who is "truth teller"... His "style" is unique in
the OS/2 world... :-/
Mentore
Shmuel Metz
at 01:13 PM, Truth...@nospam.net said:
>Get over your bullshit. The fact is you characters know that I'm right
>about lack of a virus threat for OS2,
Sorry, tonto, you you are seriously confused about whom you are arguing
with; Please run windoze; it's what you deserve. OS/2 is too good for the
likes of you.
>have found another non-issue to whine about
Your willful ignorance, tim, is not a minor issue. Your assumption that
anybody running OS/2 must agree with you, however, is so monumentally
stupid as to make the other pale into insignificance. I've been using OS/2
since you were in diapers, and it's still my primary system.
Not being one to suffer fools gladly, I've decided that there's no need to
see any more of your nonsense.
*PLONK*
Truth...@nospam.net
Tell us about this great OS2 virus threat!
I've tried to open a couple of windows virus files and make them do
something, and nothing happened... Odin all. Try it yourself. It will
be better then making a fool out of yourself with your constant whining.
And no son, you were not using OS2 when I was in dipaers. But hey, I bet
you still think ecs is going to be the savior of it too.
In <48f37702$5$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>, on 10/13/2008
at 12:27 PM, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
Roderick Klein
> + User FidoNet address: 1:396/45
> * Original message posted in: OS2.
> * Crossposted in: COMP-OS2-MISC.
> Hello All.
>
> Here's a disturbing e-mail from Norman Data Defense (Norman VC
> for OS/2):
>
> -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
> From: Marc Lewis <marc.lewis@=-=-=-=-.com>
> To: nor...@norman.com
> Cc: Sup...@norman.com
> Date: 09/25/2008 07:47 PM
> Subject: Query about my license renewal.
> =-=-=BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=-=-=
> Hash: SHA1
> Hello,
>
> I have just renewed my Norman Virus Control for OS/2 license via
> your Digital River link. I now note that you apparently no
> longer support the OS/2 product on your web site. Does that
> imply that there will no longer be virus definition updates
> available for my OS/2 version of your product?
>
> (If you have in fact stopped update support for the OS/2 version
> of Norman V.C. I would have to request a refund of the renewal
> fee I have just submitted... But hopefully that won't be the
> case!) Please advise.
>
> Sincere thanks.
> -
> *****************************************
> * Best regards,
> * Marc.
> [SNIP]
>
> To : marc.lewis@=-=-=-=-=-.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Subject: Re: Fw: Query about my license renewal.
> X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0.1 February 07, 2008
> From: Jermain...@norman.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:10:28 -0400
>
> Hi,
>
> OS/2 downloads and support for OS/2 have been discontinued.
> Your refund is being processed. We apologize for any
> inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jermaine Lowery
> Channel Account Representative
> Norman Data Defense Systems, Inc.
> -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-CUT-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
>
> Odd that ECS current release (2.0RC5) ships _with_ Norman VC as
> an installable option.
>
> Anyone have any further info for alternate virus control for
> OS/2 systems?
I have not read the rest of the thread with all postings. The only scan
solution is ClamAV. But this has no realtime protection for viruses.
And virusses on OS/2 /eCS ? Well its not real an issue. The only thing
that can be a problem are DOS boot viruses/boot sector viruses.
So an old DOS diskette might be a bigger risk then the Windows viruses.
Roderick Klein
Mensys
Roderick