How does "catch-up" work in ProNews?
Alex Taylor
How does the "catch-up" function work in ProNews, exactly?
I habitually do a catch-up (c) after reading through the messages in a
group.
I've always assumed that it means "mark as read all messages up to the
latest downloaded headers". In other words, all messages currently shown in
the message list are marked as read (as are any older messages which aren't
shown). That seems to be the standard behaviour for most newsreaders.
However, it's suddenly occurred to me that certain anomalies* might be
explained if what catch-up _actually_ does is mark ALL messages in the group
as read _up to the latest on the server_ (even those that haven't yet been
refreshed into the header list). In other words, even newer messages (that
I don't know about yet) get marked read, and won't ever appear in the
message list.
So... which is it?
* Namely, messages which I post myself almost never show up in ProNews. I
figure that if I post the message while reading the group, then do a
catch-up, it might get marked as read and thus never downloaded by
ProNews later.
--
Alex Taylor
Fukushima, Japan
http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00
Please take off hat when replying.
Trevor Hemsley
<mai...@reply.to.address> wrote:
> However, it's suddenly occurred to me that certain anomalies* might be
> explained if what catch-up _actually_ does is mark ALL messages in the group
> as read _up to the latest on the server_ (even those that haven't yet been
> refreshed into the header list). In other words, even newer messages (that
> I don't know about yet) get marked read, and won't ever appear in the
> message list.
>
> So... which is it?
I think it is exactly this. The code seems to retrieve the latest group info
from the server (number of articles, low msg #, high msg #) then set the group
information to show that all of those have been retrieved and then goes off and
marks everything as not new and as read. I could be wrong about the
functionality as this is a) not an area of the code that I have ever looked at
and b) never used myself.
--
Trevor Hemsley, Brighton, UK
Trevor dot Hemsley at ntlworld dot com
Dave Saville
That does seem to be rather a crap design if true. :-)
--
Regards
Dave Saville
NB Remove nospam. for good email address
Alex Taylor
wrote:
>>> ...if what catch-up _actually_ does is mark ALL messages in the group
>>> as read _up to the latest on the server_ (even those that haven't yet
>>> been refreshed into the header list). In other words, even newer
>>> messages (that I don't know about yet) get marked read, and won't ever
>>> appear in the message list.
>>
>> I think it is exactly this. The code seems to retrieve the latest group
>> info from the server (number of articles, low msg #, high msg #) then set
>> the group information to show that all of those have been retrieved and
>> then goes off and marks everything as not new and as read. I could be
>> wrong about the functionality as this is a) not an area of the code that
>> I have ever looked at and b) never used myself.
>
> That does seem to be rather a crap design if true. :-)
Well, it certainly would seem to be a rather _odd_ design... It would mean
that any messages which arrive on the server during the gap between me
downloading the headers and doing the catch-up (basically, during the time
I spend reading the group) is going to disappear into the void, at least
from my perspective.
Mind you, it would explain the nagging impression I've had for a while that
I just miss seeing postings every now and then...
Christian Hennecke
> > > However, it's suddenly occurred to me that certain anomalies* might be
> > > explained if what catch-up _actually_ does is mark ALL messages in the group
> > > as read _up to the latest on the server_ (even those that haven't yet been
> > > refreshed into the header list). In other words, even newer messages (that
> > > I don't know about yet) get marked read, and won't ever appear in the
> > > message list.
> > >
> > > So... which is it?
> >
> > I think it is exactly this. The code seems to retrieve the latest group info
> > from the server (number of articles, low msg #, high msg #) then set the group
> > information to show that all of those have been retrieved and then goes off and
> > marks everything as not new and as read. I could be wrong about the
> > functionality as this is a) not an area of the code that I have ever looked at
> > and b) never used myself.
> >
>
> That does seem to be rather a crap design if true. :-)
Crap or not, that is the way that catching up always has worked with
NNTP.
--
"I smell blood and an era of prominent madmen." - W.H. Auden
Trevor Hemsley
<mai...@reply.to.address> wrote:
> I've always assumed that it means "mark as read all messages up to the
> latest downloaded headers". In other words, all messages currently shown in
> the message list are marked as read (as are any older messages which aren't
> shown). That seems to be the standard behaviour for most newsreaders.
If you want this behaviour then you just need to use Alt-R from the control
panel or Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group itself.
Paul Ratcliffe
<christian...@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>> > I think it is exactly this. The code seems to retrieve the latest group info
>> > from the server (number of articles, low msg #, high msg #) then set the group
>> > information to show that all of those have been retrieved and then goes off and
>> > marks everything as not new and as read. I could be wrong about the
>> > functionality as this is a) not an area of the code that I have ever looked at
>> > and b) never used myself.
>>
>> That does seem to be rather a crap design if true. :-)
>
> Crap or not, that is the way that catching up always has worked with
> NNTP.
It's nothing to do with NNTP. It is entirely a client side issue.
The client ought to mark as read as high as whatever the highest numbered
article was the last time it contacted the server. It should NOT contact
the server again and use whatever the number may be now.
altow...@dccnet.com
When a message arrives during a catch-up, those messages are higer message
number than the High# in catch-up
Example:
comp.os.os2.beta ... 16:09:56 (40426/00000)
Catch-up 200 articles
comp.os.os2.beta ... 16:09:56 (40226/40426)
5 new messages arrive
comp.os.os2.beta ... 16:09:56 (40426/40431)
Collected on NEXT news collection
Regards Al
In <mdq090pMZSKk-pn2-XzNzxLmxtTED@localhost>, on 06/24/2008
at 07:06 AM, "Alex Taylor" <mai...@reply.to.address> said:
>Well, it certainly would seem to be a rather _odd_ design... It would
>mean that any messages which arrive on the server during the gap between
>me downloading the headers and doing the catch-up (basically, during the
>time I spend reading the group) is going to disappear into the void, at
>least from my perspective.
--
*****************************************
* Alan Townsend Sechelt, BC Canada
*
* E-Mail: altow...@dccnet.com
* Home Page:
* Tel: (604) 885-0943
*
* Mr2 Ice: Reg #582
*****************************************
Trevor Hemsley
wrote:
> When a message arrives during a catch-up, those messages are higer message
> number than the High# in catch-up
No, it goes to the server and updates the numbers and _then_ catches up.
If you want to do what you said the you use Alt-R from control panel or
Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group.
Alex Taylor
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> I've always assumed that it means "mark as read all messages up to the
>> latest downloaded headers". In other words, all messages currently shown
>> in the message list are marked as read (as are any older messages which
>> aren't shown). That seems to be the standard behaviour for most
>> newsreaders.
>
> If you want this behaviour then you just need to use Alt-R from the
> control panel or Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group itself.
Retraining my fingers from using 'c' is easier said than done... -_-
I don't suppose there's any way for the user to remap it...?
Dave Saville
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:14:21 UTC in comp.os.os2.mail-news, altow...@dccnet.com
> wrote:
>
> > When a message arrives during a catch-up, those messages are higer message
> > number than the High# in catch-up
>
> No, it goes to the server and updates the numbers and _then_ catches up.
>
> If you want to do what you said the you use Alt-R from control panel or
> Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group.
>
Then may I suggest that that option be added to the group drop down
menu? Either in addition or instead of "Catchup C". Which, as we have
seen, gives entirely the wrong impression.
Trevor Hemsley
<da...@nospam.deezee.org> wrote:
> Then may I suggest that that option be added to the group drop down
> menu? Either in addition or instead of "Catchup C". Which, as we have
> seen, gives entirely the wrong impression.
It's already on the group popup menu or from Article -> Mark as Read -> All
(Ctrl-Alt-R)
Dave Saville
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:52:25 UTC in comp.os.os2.mail-news, "Dave Saville"
> <da...@nospam.deezee.org> wrote:
>
> > Then may I suggest that that option be added to the group drop down
> > menu? Either in addition or instead of "Catchup C". Which, as we have
> > seen, gives entirely the wrong impression.
>
> It's already on the group popup menu or from Article -> Mark as Read -> All
> (Ctrl-Alt-R)
>
Somehow, my brain at least, does not equate Mark as Read -> All as the
same as Catchup. Especially as Catchup has higher prominance in the
menu hirarachy
Dave Saville
<mai...@reply.to.address> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:25:35 UTC, "Trevor Hemsley"
> <Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've always assumed that it means "mark as read all messages up to the
> >> latest downloaded headers". In other words, all messages currently shown
> >> in the message list are marked as read (as are any older messages which
> >> aren't shown). That seems to be the standard behaviour for most
> >> newsreaders.
> >
> > If you want this behaviour then you just need to use Alt-R from the
> > control panel or Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group itself.
>
> Retraining my fingers from using 'c' is easier said than done... -_-
> I don't suppose there's any way for the user to remap it...?
>
You could create a "Mark all as read" icon on the toolbar.
Alex Taylor
wrote:
> > > If you want this behaviour then you just need to use Alt-R from the
> > > control panel or Ctrl-Alt-R from within the group itself.
> >
> > Retraining my fingers from using 'c' is easier said than done... -_-
> > I don't suppose there's any way for the user to remap it...?
>
> You could create a "Mark all as read" icon on the toolbar.
I already have, but it doesn't fix the aforementioned problem...
Allan
> > You could create a "Mark all as read" icon on the toolbar.
>
> I already have, but it doesn't fix the aforementioned problem...
The problem seem to be, that you are using Pronews the wrong way.
From help: (catchup)
"This menu item gets the highest article number from the server
and sets this as the last message you have retrieved.
Getting new article headers will only retrieve headers higher than this number.
All articles in the group will be marked as read. "
It seems the only thing that needs fixing is you ;-)
--
Allan.
It is better to close your mouth, and look like a fool,
than to open it, and remove all doubt.
Alex Taylor
> > > You could create a "Mark all as read" icon on the toolbar.
> >
> > I already have, but it doesn't fix the aforementioned problem...
>
> The problem seem to be, that you are using Pronews the wrong way.
> From help: (catchup)
> "This menu item gets the highest article number from the server
> and sets this as the last message you have retrieved.
> Getting new article headers will only retrieve headers higher than this
> number.
> All articles in the group will be marked as read. "
>
> It seems the only thing that needs fixing is you ;-)
Well, not exactly.
There are two issues there. First of all, we've established that the above
is what the ProNews catchup facility is designed to do. My original point
was that it shouldn't be. (Seriously, what could this behaviour be useful
for?)
However, ProNews does provide a function, "mark all as read", which is the
same as what other newsreaders I've used call "catchup". So it becomes an
issue of terminology at this point. Fair enough, now we know.
But...
My current point is that, if I'm going to change to "mark as read" instead
of "catchup", there are barriers to doing so. The main one being that
I can catchup (C) with a single key stroke. However, I can't mark all as
read (Ctrl-Alt-R) with a single key stroke, or even with one hand. Hence
my latest question, as to whether there's any way for me to remap the
keyboard shortcuts.
Trevor Hemsley
<mai...@reply.to.address> wrote:
> Hence
> my latest question, as to whether there's any way for me to remap the
> keyboard shortcuts.
Not at the moment. It is something that's on my vague todo list as I'd also like
to have the ability to assign keystrokes to buttons on the toolbar - but I
really wouldn't hold your breath waiting as my time is very limited and I rarely
get any time to concentrate on one thing for long enough any more (3 y.o.'s are
amazing distraction engines).
Bob Eager
<mai...@reply.to.address> wrote:
> There are two issues there. First of all, we've established that the above
> is what the ProNews catchup facility is designed to do. My original point
> was that it shouldn't be. (Seriously, what could this behaviour be useful
> for?)
If I've been snowed under with work, or on holiday, and I really don't
have the time or inclination to download or read a huge backlog...then
that's when I use it.
I think that some newsreaders call that 'catchup', and others call 'mark
all as read' 'catchup'...!
Will Honea
I use it most often when I grab the laptop for a trip after a long layoff.
The routine is usually to charge it up and "catchup" the news reader (as it
now exists) after reading anything current on the desktop. I do the
reverse when I get back just to clear the redundancies.
--
Will Honea
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Alex Taylor
<Trevor....@mytrousers.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Hence
> > my latest question, as to whether there's any way for me to remap the
> > keyboard shortcuts.
>
> Not at the moment. It is something that's on my vague todo list as I'd
> also like to have the ability to assign keystrokes to buttons on the
> toolbar - but I really wouldn't hold your breath waiting as my time is
OK, thanks.
Actually, are the shortcuts only defined in the acceltable? I guess I
could cheat a bit with a resource editor, if I get desperate... :)
> very limited and I rarely get any time to concentrate on one thing for
> long enough any more (3 y.o.'s are amazing distraction engines).
Ah, yes. Doing preschool class for two hours is enough to take me out
of commission for the whole day, I don't know how their parents and
teachers manage to handle them full-time...
Alex Taylor
> If I've been snowed under with work, or on holiday, and I really don't
> have the time or inclination to download or read a huge backlog...then
> that's when I use it.
OK, I guess that's true...
> I think that some newsreaders call that 'catchup', and others call 'mark
> all as read' 'catchup'...!
Yeah, hence the confusion. Clearly, the other ones I'm used to use the
latter... (-_-)