DAVE BARNES RESPONDS!!!
Stardock
He called me to let me know what really happened and to let us (and you) know
that he is 100% behind OS/2 on BOTH the desktop AND enterprise and to clear
a few misconceptions:
Before I begin, I must tell you that I promised not to devulge anything more
than I am giving below until after the "official IBM response" that's coming
(so yes, there is a response coming). I am also adding a bit of information
I've received from other sources within IBM. IBM's official response will likely
be similar to what I have below (but of course much more professionally done
since I'm writing this on the fly).
Since I am not affiliated with IBM, this is an unofficial response (i.e. we're not
hampered by lawyers and politics so we can get some news out quickly).
#1 IBM has NO intention to drop OS/2 as its primary desktop platform. There
is no conspiracy to do this. There is no plan to do this. IBM is spending millions
of dollars this Fall to promote OS/2 as the real upgrade from Windows 3.1.
(Once Win95 comes out and its flaws seen, OS/2 Warp's true appeal will
become apparent).
#2 IBM views OS/2 in the following light:
OS/2 gives the customer a single platform from both home/consumer users
right on up to mission critical client/server users in the enterprise. Microsoft,
on the other hand, requires Windows95 as its home/consumer OS and NT
as its enterprise OS. End users or corporate users who choose OS/2 choose
a single scalable solution for both end users and enterprise users.
#3 Nothing has changed at IBM regarding its position on OS/2. Dave Barnes
stressed to me that his commitment to OS/2 is as strong as ever. He had
written an immediate response to the New York Times article but was asked
by IBM to wait until IBM could craft a more formal response (hence the delay).
There are some pretty annoyed people within IBM about the almost organized
campaign to spread misinformation about OS/2 Warp (and gee, what a
coincidence, just a week before Win95 ships).
#4 IBM would never (or in his words "could never") make a strategic direction
change in this manner. (i.e. IBM makes announcements for everything, they
don't 'leak' things to the press).
Unfortunately, I cannot tell you all the things he said since it was told to me
in confidence but bottom line is:
(my interpretation of my discussions with Dave Barnes and other sources
within IBM)
OS/2 on the desktop: This Fall, OS/2 WILL go head to head against Win95 on
the desktop and head to head against NT in the enterprise.
If you've read my posts in the past, I think you know that I don't say these
sorts of things unless I'm pretty certain.
The official IBM response will probably be more eloquent but since I'm just
writing this moments after my conversation with Mr. Barnes, my post rambles... :)
Please spread the word: IBM is redoubling its commitment to OS/2.
If anything good has come from this New York Times thing, it is that it appears
to have energized IBM internally.
Brad
--------------------------------------------------------
Brad Wardell
Project Coordinator
Stardock Systems, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------
landman
that VERY SOON the world knows how they feel. Waiting until after the 24th
would be a massive tactical mistake.
Joe
ps: Finally, the NT structures that I indicated for its success are being
seen.
I wonder if IBM took my advice to ship out NT capable machines to offset win9x
gains? NT hit a number 12 on a best selling chart according to Mike T.
Steve Withers
>Okay, I just got off the phone with Dave Barnes.
>
>He called me to let me know what really happened and to let us (and you) know
>that he is 100% behind OS/2 on BOTH the desktop AND enterprise and to clear
>a few misconceptions:
..........
>Please spread the word: IBM is redoubling its commitment to OS/2.
>
>If anything good has come from this New York Times thing, it is that it appears
>to have energized IBM internally.
>
>Brad
Thanks, Brad
Gee......Brian is going to be pissed.
Wrong *again*!
Steve
|----------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand
| sb...@ibm.net / swit...@vnet.ibm.com
| Brought to you by OS/2 Warp v3.0 and the IBM Internet Connection
| Apocalypse Computing: "I love the smell of Warp in the morning."
|----------------------------------------------------------------
Halibut
: Okay, I just got off the phone with Dave Barnes.
: He called me to let me know what really happened and to let us (and you) know
: that he is 100% behind OS/2 on BOTH the desktop AND enterprise and to clear
: a few misconceptions:
Dave apparently said many bad things about Warp in the New York
Times article. I was hoping to find out, from your source,
how ALL of them were distortions, or responses to questions other than
what is printed in the story. I did not find one such "correction" in
your entire post. All I found were the same recitations of strategic
goals etc that I have seen in other postings.
This does not quite cut it when David has allegedly said
something like "Well, let's put it this way. I'm installing Win95 on my
machine at home." Some people have said that this was in response to a
question like "How do you plan to compare the two operating systems" and
not the question that the NYT says it asked, which was more a "Which is
better" type question. Is that true?
David also said many other bad things, at least the way it is
presented. Please call up your source, and find out the above.
: #3 Nothing has changed at IBM regarding its position on OS/2. Dave Barnes
: stressed to me that his commitment to OS/2 is as strong as ever. He had
: written an immediate response to the New York Times article but was asked
: by IBM to wait until IBM could craft a more formal response (hence the delay).
: There are some pretty annoyed people within IBM about the almost organized
: campaign to spread misinformation about OS/2 Warp (and gee, what a
: coincidence, just a week before Win95 ships).
Without waiting for a "more formal response", what would have
been reasonable to get from you by this point from Dave was
1) I didn't say any of those things, or
2) Here are the real questions I was asked, not the ones they
said I was asked.
As well as:
1) Here's a really good explanation why I even spoke to the
NYT after the way they distorted the prior Gerstner speech.
Yes, we would like all those things. General recitations of IBM's
strategic goals, as I said, will not cut it at this point.
: Please spread the word: IBM is redoubling its commitment to OS/2.
Not until you tell us what Dave said about his statements.
Joseph T. Malloy
>Okay, I just got off the phone with Dave Barnes.
[Dave B. sez IBM's committed to os/2, which you would expect him to say
regardless, I mean, he's IBM's official "evangelist" after all!]
Well, that's a relief. Although I do like Microsoft OS's (and some apps),
especially Windows 95 for the low and middle-end (middle end? How can
something be in the middle and yet an "end"?) desktop, I much prefer the
competition. Besides, what would 'Softies do without teamsters? :)
Fight on!
epi...@ibm.net
> stressed to me that his commitment to OS/2 is as strong as ever. He had
> written an immediate response to the New York Times article but was asked
> by IBM to wait until IBM could craft a more formal response (hence the delay).
> There are some pretty annoyed people within IBM about the almost organized
> campaign to spread misinformation about OS/2 Warp (and gee, what a
> coincidence, just a week before Win95 ships).
>within IBM)
>OS/2 on the desktop: This Fall, OS/2 WILL go head to head against Win95 on
>the desktop and head to head against NT in the enterprise.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Brad Wardell
>Project Coordinator
>Stardock Systems, Inc.
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
If only you knew just how much $$$ IBM is going to be spending counterattacking
the Softies. I expect to have some major news to announce in a couple of weeks.
Eric Pinnell
(No Comment)
jkl...@ibm.net
> If only you knew just how much $$$ IBM is going to be spending counterattacking
>the Softies. I expect to have some major news to announce in a couple of weeks.
>
>Eric Pinnell
The spending had better start by August 24, or it will get lost in the huge
amount that the opposition is going to spend. It's already a conundrum how
many people seem to be walking in to stores to "reserve their copy of
WIN95" when they could buy OS/2 now!!
Best Regards,
Steven G. LeMay
Any money IBM spends promoting OS/2 Warp before August 25 is wasted. Those
more lemmings are walking in and putting money down on a product they have
never seen. No amount of advertising is going to change that right now. Its when
they take it home and its not all that its hyped to be... That's when the show starts.
For example, I was in Electronics Boutique looking at some new Atari Jaguar games,
while the wife was cloths shopping. Two young guys, around 20, were talking to
the sales clerk about "how good Win95 was going to be". I listened, decided not
even to make a comment, because these guys were so off-base from what
Microsoft was shipping -- it wasn't even funny. There's no way Microsoft could live
up to what they were talking about. They were even expecting a flood of new games
in the first couple of weeks of September. You can't advertise against these
people's view of Win95. Wait until Bill is doing some apologizing (how ever he
phrases it), then start your advertising and promoting. Its been awhile, but
I remember how bad Microsoft tech support was, and now that they are forced
to contract tech support -- it can only be worse. Lemmings, everone who buys
it before they see it. I didn't even buy Warp sight unseen, drove 400 miles to
attend a launch show, talk to ISVs, and try it myself first.
-----
Steven G. LeMay
via IBM TCP/IP for OS/2 Warp Connect!
Now Using IBM LAN WorkGroup with complete UltiMail -- LOVE IT!
Steve Withers
All the way up to 12th right after the v3.51 upgrade release?
Underwhelming.
Warp was at the number 1 spot for a month (though they didn't print those
charts for some reason..........must have been important, I can't recall
what it was........)
J...@fifth_column.mv.com
repeat what David said and a formal response is being crafted by IBM. Hold your
water and wait for the reply. The closer to Aug 24th the reply comes, the better.
landman
>In <40hb87$3...@murrow.corp.sgi.com>, landman <landman> writes:
>>IBMs reply up till now has been feeble... I hope that they make damn sure
>>that VERY SOON the world knows how they feel. Waiting until after the 24th
>>would be a massive tactical mistake.
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>ps: Finally, the NT structures that I indicated for its success are being
>>seen.
>>I wonder if IBM took my advice to ship out NT capable machines to offset win9x
>>gains? NT hit a number 12 on a best selling chart according to Mike T.
>
>All the way up to 12th right after the v3.51 upgrade release?
>
>Underwhelming.
I agree, but my thesis had been that IF NT had any significant volumes of
sales at any time, it would appear on the charts some time...
According to Mike Timbol it did in Computer Reseller News (which I will check
out first hand).
>
>Warp was at the number 1 spot for a month (though they didn't print those
>charts for some reason..........must have been important, I can't recall
>what it was........)
They didnt want to lose advertising bucks.
Back to my original idea though...
The longer IBM waits to put out a "real" resposne, the longer that the
mis-information has to sink in, and thus IBM has the picture of its product
painted by the competition. In case you are not sure, this strategy has never
worked in my recollevtion, and usually works against the supporters of the
product.
I have been a supporter/user since 1.3. I ordered my first 486 preloaded with
OS/2 2.0.1 long before the more vocal detractors here claim it was
pre-loadable., I have upgraded to 2.1 2.11 and 3.0. I am writing a molecular
dynamics visualization and analysis tool for OpenGL and OpenInventor which I
would like to make available on OS/2 (very few computational
chemists/physicists I know use NT, many use OS/2 as a result of yours truely).
I am very discouraged that IBM choses to wait on the forceful reply to the
detractors in the media. Misinformation is out there and the longer it sits
unchallenged, the harder it will be to alter perceptions. IBMs inaction with
regard to this (apart from the feeble letter from LVG) is being taken as a
confirming sign by the same "journalists" who reported on this.
Now in my past life as a scientist type, I had the "pleasure" to teach many of
these journalist types... my general impression is of a large group of not
terribly bright people with one or 2 stars. Accuracy was not an issue in the
nicely worded reports they filed with me, there was no substatial correct
interpretation of what was observed, nor a complete reporting of what was
observed. However, as much as I would like to, I will not assume all
journalists are like this.... such generalizations are never good.
IBM has an image problem with OS/2. They need to alter perception NOW not
in 3 weeks.
Joe
Halibut
: The spending had better start by August 24, or it will get lost in the huge
: amount that the opposition is going to spend. It's already a conundrum how
: many people seem to be walking in to stores to "reserve their copy of
: WIN95" when they could buy OS/2 now!!
I would rather "reserve" my copy of DOS 3.21 than buy a copy of
Win95.
dsda...@rain.org
>
_ _
\ \ \ Doug Darrow \ $ 0.02 (two cents worth)
)=========================> - 0.01 (for your thoughts)
/_/_/ <dsda...@rain.org> / = 0.01 (value of post 8-)
larson eric
>Okay, I just got off the phone with Dave Barnes.
>He called me to let me know what really happened and to let us (and you) know
>that he is 100% behind OS/2 on BOTH the desktop AND enterprise and to clear
>a few misconceptions:
>#1 IBM has NO intention to drop OS/2 as its primary desktop platform. There
>is no conspiracy to do this. There is no plan to do this.
==============
Peter H. Lewis exhibited poor journalist integrity by calling David Barnes
with his install problems, rather than calling the IBM support line.
Lewis claims that Barnes is a "technical expert" -- I doubt this is true.
Even if Barnes is, Lewis should have used the same support route that
typical OS/2 users will have to use, rather than a "special route." The
IBM support center is staffed with many individuals, experts on various
areas, backed by a computer system of problem reports. Every time I've
called, the problem has been resolved, either immediately, or by call back.
These folks spend all day solving problems, Barnes spends his days getting
ready for presentations. I'd much rather interface with an entire division
that IBM has established to support OS/2, rather than a "gifted salesman."
I do not understand why the New York Times has decided to besmerch the good
name of IBM. Thier journalist integrity of lates has been quite poor. The
huge Windows 95 piece that showed up a couple of weeks ago pointed out the
"problems" of Chicago, yet their valuation didn't honestly reflect their
own observations.
--
Eric Larson | University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
USDA/Agronomy | 190 ERML; 1201 W. Gregory; Urbana, IL 61801
ela...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu | Voice 217.244.3079 Fax 217.244.4419
Fidonet: 1:233/4.1 | My opinions are my own, but correct :-)
Joe Landman
>>gains? NT hit a number 12 on a best selling chart according to Mike T.
>>
>Was that, possibly, the "Top Selling Micro Operating Systems" chart? &^)
It is possible that CP/M is higher up on this list ... but...
seriously, I will check it out today to see if he was accurate.
>
> _ _
> \ \ \ Doug Darrow \ $ 0.02 (two cents worth)
> )=========================> - 0.01 (for your thoughts)
> /_/_/ <dsda...@rain.org> / = 0.01 (value of post 8-)
>
--
Joe Landman Systems Engineer |
Silicon Graphics, 24155 Drake Rd, Farmington MI 48335 | {}{}-------{}{}
voice: (810) 615 2169 | \ O /
fax: (810) 478 3181 | | |
email: lan...@detroit.sgi.com | ---
------------------------------------------------------+ / \
_| |_
Halibut
: What is your problem? Don't shoot the messenger. Brad stated that he could not
: repeat what David said and a formal response is being crafted by IBM. Hold your
: water and wait for the reply. The closer to Aug 24th the reply comes, the better.
I'm not shooting anyone.
A simple "I didn't say those things" or "I didn't say those
things in response to the questions the writer said he asked" would more
than suffice for David Barnes and would prejudice NOTHING else that he or
IBM are planning in response. If they are planning anything at all.
I am a lawyer and I know of what I speak. I am worried when I
hear no response at all.
war...@ibm.net
But it's not up to me to speak for Dave. I am not an IBM or Dave Barnes
spokesperson. I can relate to what I was told but I was specifically asked not
to repeat what actually occured.
I can only imply what happened and if Dave Barnes had given up on OS/2
in the home market or felt that way I would not be posting in his defense
(or IBM's). On the contrary, the company I work for would be hurt if IBM
were abandoning the desktop so I would be flaming like crazy if that were the
case.
Brad
Joe Barr
:>
:>
:> David also said many other bad things, at least the way it is
:>
No, he didn't. I have the story in front of me. The entire point of the
story was to try to show that Barnes preferred Win95 to Warp. That is
as far from the truth as you can get. He loves OS/2, he thinks Win95
is boring.
Let's see some the 'bad things' you are dreaming up so I can check for them
in the copy of story as it was printed in the NY Times.
Joe Barr
Tech-Connected
Austin, Tx
Halibut
: >
: > A simple "I didn't say those things" or "I didn't say those
: >than suffice for David Barnes and would prejudice NOTHING else that he or
: >IBM are planning in response. If they are planning anything at all.
: >
: I can only imply what happened and if Dave Barnes had given up on OS/2
: in the home market or felt that way I would not be posting in his defense
: (or IBM's). On the contrary, the company I work for would be hurt if IBM
: were abandoning the desktop so I would be flaming like crazy if that were the
: case.
Very well. I'll wait a few weeks (weeks, BTW, in which IBM should
be blasting the NYT instead of just hanging out) and see what transpires.
Again, I sure hope that an answer is forthcoming, which says one
of the above two things.
stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
>No, he didn't. I have the story in front of me. The entire point of the
>story was to try to show that Barnes preferred Win95 to Warp. That is
>as far from the truth as you can get. He loves OS/2, he thinks Win95
>is boring.
>
>Let's see some the 'bad things' you are dreaming up so I can check for them
>in the copy of story as it was printed in the NY Times.
Is this story available anywhere on the Net?
What's the date on the story? (I want to see what all the fuss is about!)
>Joe Barr
>Tech-Connected
>Austin, Tx
^^^^^^^^^
Cool city. :) Go Rice!
Steve
--
Steve Rodrigues
stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
Shiner Bock: Nectar of the gods
Gautam Srikanth
>>Austin, Tx
> ^^^^^^^^^
>Cool city. :) Go Rice!
Isn't Rice in Houston?
Gautam
_________________________________________________________________________
"Embody the free-minded mind." -- Master Zhongfeng
Joe Landman
I agree... IBM waiting on this is costing it mindshare and allowing it to
be painted with the brush and paint of Microsoft + allies choosing.
IBM needs vehement forceful responses that portray the articles for what
they were... NOT for the misinterpretations that have now UNIFORMLY spread
throughout the industry...
Unless of course IBM really wants a harder uphill battle for desks/mindshare...
A proactive reponse is needed and warranted.... where is it?
Bob Hauck
|> Warp was at the number 1 spot for a month (though they didn't print those
|> charts for some reason..........must have been important, I can't recall
|> what it was........)
A "Special Report" on the Pentium bug.
---
Bob Hauck Wasatch Communcations Group
bo...@wasatch.com Data (24 hrs): 801-272-3792
Will Rose
: dsda...@rain.org wrote:
: >>gains? NT hit a number 12 on a best selling chart according to Mike T.
: >>
: >Was that, possibly, the "Top Selling Micro Operating Systems" chart? &^)
: It is possible that CP/M is higher up on this list ... but...
: seriously, I will check it out today to see if he was accurate.
The Commodore 64 is pretty clearly the highest selling system/OS
of all time apart from MSDOS; but I can't remember how many there
are about. Obviously these lists lack historical perspective...
Arnold Salvati
writes:
:
:Thus wrote stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
:
:>>Austin, Tx
:> ^^^^^^^^^
:>Cool city. :) Go Rice!
:
:Isn't Rice in Houston?
:
I think he must have meant: Go Longhorns!
Arnold
asal...@mail.utexas.edu
Richard E. Hodges
>In <40o5in$b...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, asal...@mail.utexas.edu (Arnold Salvati) writes:
>>In message <40o0ck$c...@news.nynexst.com> - gau...@nynexst.com (Gautam Srikanth)
>> writes:
>>:Thus wrote stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
>>:>>Austin, Tx
>>:> ^^^^^^^^^
>>:>Cool city. :) Go Rice!
>>:Isn't Rice in Houston?
>
>>I think he must have meant: Go Longhorns!
>
>You wound me.
>
>As I just explained to Gautam via email, I grew up in Austin (the best city
I've lived in Dallas (grew up there), Austin (went to UT Austin) and
Houston (don't ask). While Austin is certainly an enjoyable city to
live in with many interesting features, it is still a small town compared
to Dallas or Houston (or San Antonio for that matter). Therefore, you
live with a limited spectrum of opportunities and options. It is not
the "best" in general. Overall, I would take Dallas or Houston over
Austin. Of course, I would take LA or San Francisco over Dallas or
Houston, but that's another issue....
>in Texas) and went to school at Rice (the best school in Texas).
Rice is the best in some disciplines, but there are many academic
disciplines that Rice does not excel in. The trouble with small schools
is that a Freshman may not always know what they want to major in. At a
large campus, you can move in whatever direction you want. Again, it's
a big vs. small thing. Of course, being a UT Austin alumni, (BSEE) I am
also compelled to ask how many national championships Rice has won
in college football. :-)
>stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
^^^^^^^^
I guess you didn't feel compelled to stay in Texas for graduate work.
>Shiner Bock: Nectar of the gods
Look into the fine microbreweries in California, Texas, Oregon, Washington...
Richard Hodges
D. Scott Katzer
I think this needs to go to .advocacy now, so please not the
followup-to.
In <40l8do$6...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, ela...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (larson eric) writes:
>war...@ibm.net@oeonline.com (Stardock) writes:
>
>>Okay, I just got off the phone with Dave Barnes.
[...]
>>#1 IBM has NO intention to drop OS/2 as its primary desktop platform. There
>>is no conspiracy to do this. There is no plan to do this.
>Peter H. Lewis exhibited poor journalist integrity by calling David Barnes
>with his install problems, rather than calling the IBM support line.
That's not what happened according to the timeline Q has on his Web
page. Please check out:
http://www.inetnw.com/~os2man/nyt.barnes2.html
IBM contacted Mr. Lewis in an attempt to "convert" him. Apparently, he
didn't have an open mind....
Like many others, I'm hoping IBM can put this fiasco to rest soon.
[...]
Cheers,
Scott.
------
D. Scott Katzer - NRL Code 6856 - Washington, D.C. 20375-5347 USA
My time, My opinions.
Naval Research Lab WWW Home Page: http://www.nrl.navy.mil
Gord McFee
:>
:>Jim@fifth_column.mv.com wrote:
:>
:>: What is your problem? Don't shoot the messenger. Brad stated that he could not
:>: repeat what David said and a formal response is being crafted by IBM. Hold your
:>: water and wait for the reply. The closer to Aug 24th the reply comes, the better.
:>
:> I'm not shooting anyone.
:> A simple "I didn't say those things" or "I didn't say those
:>than suffice for David Barnes and would prejudice NOTHING else that he or
:>IBM are planning in response. If they are planning anything at all.
:>
I agree there should have been a response by now, but people who have talked
to Barnes say that he meant he was installing Win95 for testing and
comparison purposes. That sounds a lot more plausible than Barnes selling
out to Microsoft.
Gord McFee
"I'll write no line before its time"
stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
>In message <40o0ck$c...@news.nynexst.com> - gau...@nynexst.com (Gautam Srikanth)
> writes:
>:Thus wrote stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
>:>>Austin, Tx
>:> ^^^^^^^^^
>:>Cool city. :) Go Rice!
>:Isn't Rice in Houston?
>I think he must have meant: Go Longhorns!
Hell, no!
You wound me.
As I just explained to Gautam via email, I grew up in Austin (the best city
in Texas) and went to school at Rice (the best school in Texas).
Go Owls!!!
:)
>Arnold
>asal...@mail.utexas.edu
Steve
--
Steve Rodrigues
stev...@cs.berkeley.edu
Halibut
: :> David also said many other bad things, at least the way it is
: No, he didn't. I have the story in front of me. The entire point of the
: story was to try to show that Barnes preferred Win95 to Warp. That is
: as far from the truth as you can get. He loves OS/2, he thinks Win95
: is boring.
: Let's see some the 'bad things' you are dreaming up so I can check for
them : in the copy of story as it was printed in the NY Times.
We all have access to the story. I'm not going to paraphrase
every single thing he allegedly told the NY Tiems reporter, such as
comparing OS/2 to Betamx that was better but failed, and saying that he
would install Win95 in response to a question which dealt with which
would be better.
I would like simply to see a denial from him. Until I see that, I
will reserve judgement about what he did or did not say. Since, again, I
cannot possibly imagine why Barnes would have talked to the NYT after
what the NYT printed the prior week.
Halibut
: The Commodore 64 is pretty clearly the highest selling system/OS
: of all time apart from MSDOS; but I can't remember how many there
: are about. Obviously these lists lack historical perspective...
It probably multitasked better than Win95 ill.
Halibut
: I agree there should have been a response by now, but people who have talked
: to Barnes say that he meant he was installing Win95 for testing and
: comparison purposes. That sounds a lot more plausible than Barnes selling
: out to Microsoft.
Then we need to have heard that by now. Publicly. Also, an
explanation of the quotes where he compares OS/2 to Betamax, which was a
superior video system to VHS but lost our because of a number of factors.
did he or didn't he say that? It's long past time for a response.
MARK MATHIS
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.apps
Subject: ibmworks csd--where?
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 17:06:29 EDT
References: <412htm$f...@aadt.sdt.com> <1995Aug18....@math.enmu.edu>
X-Newsreader: MR/2 v2.25 #281 - An OS/2 QWK reader
Can someone tell me where I can ftp the IBM Works csd?
Thanks;
Mark Mathis
Team OS/2
From the Warped Desktop of Mark Mathis...
INTERNET: mark....@eqjaxfl.gate.net FIDO: 1:112/1
---
* MR/2 #281 * HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks. Dave. DAVE!
MARK MATHIS
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.apps
Subject: Re: Latest SLIP/PPP update kills my redial!
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 13:40:58 EDT
References: <41472v$l...@odyssey.apana.org.au>
X-Newsreader: MR/2 v2.25 #281 - An OS/2 QWK reader
Howdy fellow Warpers;
Having a few problems with the PPP dialer. My script will connect, echo my
login and password, and I will be connected. Then I get two error lines:
error: [NETW] invalid fcs
Then the dialer gets the dynamic ip feeds, and PPP fires up. Everthing
works, ftp, www, etc. but I continually get the same errors after this
point. On average about one per minute. After an hours session online, I
have a long list of these errors, all the same, in the dialog box of the
dialer. All the info is set up per the providers instructions, I think it
has something to do with the MRU mask, which is 596, which is what they
specified, with no VJ compression. Does MRU have anything to do with it?
Any ideas?
Thanks;
Mark Mathis
Team OS/2
From the Warped Desktop of Mark Mathis...
INTERNET: mark....@eqjaxfl.gate.net FIDO: 1:112/1
---
* MR/2 #281 * The Borg are coming! Quick, try and look useless.
dan...@cent.com
>Having a few problems with the PPP dialer. My script will connect, echo my
>login and password, and I will be connected. Then I get two error lines:
>
>error: [NETW] invalid fcs
no big deal. I found the answer in a linux book. It simply mentions to
expect to see this error when first logging in with ppp. It has to do
with synching up and ppp's error correction. Once its synched then u dont see it
anymore....if u constantly get it while online there is a problem...
btw i get it when i log in to my provider via ppp
//---------------------------------------------------------------------
// dsa...@teamos.org OS/2-LiNuX -=Hey man nice shot=-
//---------------------------------------------------------------------
// Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in
// any form, in whole or in part. Copyright, Daniel De Los Santos, 1995.
// License to distribute this post is available to Microsoft for $1000.
// Posting without permission constitutes an agreement to these terms.
// Please send notices of violation to dsa...@teamos2.org and
// postm...@microsoft.com
Annie
mark....@eqjaxfl.gate.net (MARK MATHIS) wrote:
> From: mark....@eqjaxfl.gate.net
> Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.apps
> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 17:06:29 EDT
> References: <412htm$f...@aadt.sdt.com> <1995Aug18....@math.enmu.edu>
>
I imagine it's still in the /incoming directory at hobbes.nmsu.edu. Filename
is csdworks.zip.
A.
*************************
A = akn...@wyoming.com
ann...@delphi.com
*************************
BOB HARGREAVES
You said>... The spending had better start by August 24, or it will get
lost in the huge amount that the opposition is going to spend. It's already a
conundrum how many people seem to be walking in to stores to "reserve their
Having just gone through windoze95 the other night, I pity them. ... After
seeing some of the compromises, and problems with the new OS, I think even 3.1
is better. I wouldn't take it for free, let alone pay for it. There is nothing
of value that I saw in windoze95 that I don't already have in Warp, which is
MUCH easier to use. .... Maybe all this hype will backfire when some of these
new purchasers foul up their hard drives. ....
Bob H -------------------------------------------------------------------- Member:Trader's Connection 9675.6775 -**- Internet:indy...@trader.com
Cornerstone Design // Authorized Distr./Var for FASTCAD/FC3D/RENDERMAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compliments of OS/2 WARP !!! -***- NO LONGER LOCKING MY Windoze !!!
---
* Origin: Traders' Connection * telnet: trader.com * info: in...@trader.com
Michael Cox
: Then we need to have heard that by now. Publicly. Also, an
: superior video system to VHS but lost our because of a number of factors.
: did he or didn't he say that? It's long past time for a response.
I'm always facinated with OS/2 and BetaMax comparison. Especially since Sony
has reintroduced BetaMax machines.
First off, BetaMax is not dead (although I've never owned a machine). The
simple fact is that in North America, that great consumer market, BetaMax lost
out. In other places it was VHS which lost out, but they didn't have the
consumer market to decide for the manufacturers that Beta was the way to go.
Now that some of those markets where Beta had over 99% (yes even higher) are
beginning to have more consumer demand, BetaMax is back. In fact, on a world-
wide consumption, VHS had only a slight edge over BetaMax. Why throw the
towl in? Well, apparently it was just too expensive to support BetaMax in
these low profit areas. Now that those areas can afford higher returns and
higher demand, they're back.
--
Michael Cox | Remember: Object Oriented Technology -- OOT
Mitel Corp. | Hyper-Object Oriented Technology -- HOOT!
In sunny | Create Hyper-Object Groups -- HOGs!
Kanata! | Mitel has nothing to do with my opinions. They're all mine!
Gary McNees
I just bought a new BetaMax machine. I is still far superior in picture quality
to VSH. I.e. 300 as opposed to 240 horizontal lines of resolution.
Gary
Bill
: Now that some of those markets where Beta had over 99% (yes even higher) are
: beginning to have more consumer demand, BetaMax is back. In fact, on a world-
: wide consumption, VHS had only a slight edge over BetaMax. Why throw the
: towl in?
This does make BetaMax sound a lot like OS/2. Although OS/2 is doing a
lot worse than Windows, its in markets outside the US where OS/2 does so
well.
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+------------------------+
| Bill Poitras | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Tel (408)522-0116 |
| bi...@ba.msi.com | Sunnyvale, CA 94087-40237 | FAX (408)522-0199 |
+-------------------+----------------------------+------------------------+
|FTP Mail |mail ftp...@decwrl.dec.com | Offers:ftp via email |
| |Subject:<CR>help<CR>quit | |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Tom Lentz
>From: INDY...@trader.com (BOB HARGREAVES)
>Date: 20 Aug 1995 15:41:46 EST
>Subject: Re: DAVE BARNES RESPONDS!!!
[stuff deleted]
> .... Maybe all this hype will backfire when some of these
>new purchasers foul up their hard drives. ....
>Bob H -------------------------------------------------------------------- Member:Trader's Connection 9675.6775 -**- Internet:indy...@trader.com
>
Me and a friend were talking and discovered a great business opportunity that
I think I'll share here (feel free to take advantage of it!).
Most everyone I know who's tried Win95 has either had it trash their hard
disk, mess up their applications so many of them don't work, or they simply
don't like it. The problem seems to be getting it off! After finding that
their apps won't work, they'd be happy to just have it the "way it was". Of
course these people didn't back up their drives--they were too anxious
to get Win95 in, trust Microsoft too much, don't realize the extent of
the Win95 upgrade, or any combination of those. Here's where the opportunity
comes in.
Start a service REMOVING Win95 from people's drives. Either get it back "the
way it was" with Dos/Win that works, or change them over to OS/2. A hard
drive recovery service of sorts. It'd just take a bit of knowledge, some boot
disks, good utilities, and possibly a paralell port tape backup. You could
probably charge a flat or hourly fee, and provide house calls.
I'd imagine that most people would just want their familiar dos/windows back,
but there's no reason that you can't subtly suggest OS/2 as an established
32-bit alternative that works.
Tom.
Team OS/2.
- - - - - - - - -
tle...@teknon.com
[insert standard disclaimer stuff here]
This post made from only the freshest hand-picked baby electrons.
Michael Montz
:>
:>Michael Cox (co...@software.mitel.com) wrote:
:>: Now that some of those markets where Beta had over 99% (yes even higher) are
:>: beginning to have more consumer demand, BetaMax is back. In fact, on a world-
:>: wide consumption, VHS had only a slight edge over BetaMax. Why throw the
:>: towl in?
:>
:>This does make BetaMax sound a lot like OS/2. Although OS/2 is doing a
:>lot worse than Windows, its in markets outside the US where OS/2 does so
:>well.
It seems that in this country mediocrity is expected and accepted.
Michael Montz
RickStrong
We sure do go for conformity in a big way, especially odd in that we
consider ourselves to be such freedom lovers...! I have never understood
why everyone has to go with the most popular computers and systems, rather
than the most appropriate ones...
-----------------------------
rick strong
ricks...@aol.com
-----------------------------
Paul Hostetler
RickStrong <ricks...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>It seems that in this country mediocrity is expected and accepted.<<<
>
>We sure do go for conformity in a big way, especially odd in that we
>consider ourselves to be such freedom lovers...! I have never understood
>why everyone has to go with the most popular computers and systems, rather
>than the most appropriate ones...
Even the Deadheads wore a uniform of non-conformity.
--
ms_hos...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu * phos...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
at...@cleveland.freenet.edu * hoste...@osu.edu * CIS 70004.3540 [E--/F]
WARNING: Do not look into laser with remaining eye
RickStrong
it the "way it was". Of course these people didn't back up their
drives--they were too anxious to get Win95 in, trust Microsoft too much,
don't realize the extent of
the Win95 upgrade, or any combination of those.<<<
There may be a number of those after the big sale tonight! I can imagine a
scenario in which thousands buy the CD at midnight, then become so excited
that they can't sleep, so they stay up to install. Imagine the combination
of tiredness, nervousness, and Win95's inherent problems...plus, of
course, the fact that many of these installations will be on substandard
PCs with oddball hardware configurations...this might be wishful thinking,
but I can almost see many many people wondering "What have I DONE!?"
tomorrow morning.
RickStrong
BTW, I love the idea!
Halibut
: >>>Start a service REMOVING Win95 from people's drives.<<<
: BTW, I love the idea!
I love it too.
By the way, if I buy Win95, can I return it for a refund at any
store? Is BG providing a guarantee? Certainly, I would never but it with
the intetion of returning it. And of course, I would never, like, buy
10-15 boxes of it and then return them.
its...@mcs.com
> I would like simply to see a denial from him. Until I see that, I
>will reserve judgement about what he did or did not say.
Here's his note (apologies to those of you seeing it twice). He gives
his email address at the bottom so maybe you can ask him directly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: David Barnes Senior Product Manager .
Personal Software Products .
T/L 678-0375 (512)838-0375 .
Subject: Hysteria Part 2...
** Reply to note from Timothy Sipples <CHGVMIC1(TSIPPLE)> 08/11/95 1:26pm
Well, I have been waiting for IBM public relations to give me the formal
response that I am to post on-line. I have waited as long as I can.
I have to say something so let me say this -
I am the same David Barnes I have always been. I am committed to OS/2
300%. My career has revolved around OS/2 for eight years now and happily
I see no end in sight.
Secret - I run NT at home. I also run Linux, SCO Unix, Win 3.1 and I would
like a free copy of NextStep. I don't have any Apple computers because I
can't find anyone to give me one.
IBM is still, and always has been committed to OS/2 Warp.
There is a theory I have read on the net that IBM senior management had me
"leak" the news that we are giving up the battle for the desktop and the
home market. This is absolutely, positively not true.
Folks, if IBM had asked me to "leak" information I would have refused. I
have a lot of very close friends who have invested time, money and their
careers in OS/2. If I learned that IBM was abandoning OS/2 I would have to
tell my friends. These Friendships mean more to me than my job (I would then ask
them to help me find another!)
That said, let me add that IBM doesn't do business that way. We really don't
and I am proud of that.
To all of you that are Warp supporters I am sorry that you have had to
endure this. We have all been through a lot over the years. How many times have we
had to fight off the "OS/2 is dead" nonsense? I know it has gotten worse in
recent weeks and this didn't help. If you have customers, clients or
friends that need a phone call from me, let me know. I will do everything I can to
help.
David Barnes dba...@vnet.ibm.com
This note sent from Post Road Mailer, another 32-bit OS/2 application.
...............................................................
. Internet: DBA...@VNET.IBM.COM Compuserve: 70334,2131 .
. USIB4QG6@IBMMAIL Fax (512)823-3251 .
...............................................................
E N D O F N O T E
mh...@unicomp.net
>In article <41a1vh$e...@coxm.mitel.com>,
>Michael Cox <co...@software.mitel.com> wrote:
>>Halibut (hal...@cnct.com) wrote:
>>I'm always facinated with OS/2 and BetaMax comparison. Especially since Sony
>>has reintroduced BetaMax machines.
>to VSH. I.e. 300 as opposed to 240 horizontal lines of resolution.
I've been in video production for 20 years now. BetaMax technology didn't die, it
migrated to the professional video market. First were Sony 1" machines for
$80,000; then Broadcast Beta (on 1/2" tape) for $60,000; then BetaSP for $40,000;
now Digital Beta for $80,000 again. I guess I'm saying the better technology did
win for Sony.
Industrial strength video comes at industrial prices. . .maybe the BetaMax-OS/2
analogy is sound. I'd rather sell a single deck for $80,000 to a customer who will
worship it as a god, than sell 400 $200 VHS decks to John Doe's everwhere
who will give it to their kids for some of that special brand of abuse that only
the very young can provide :)
Just my $.02 worth ;)
mhood
//mh...@unicomp.net
//Paging Marc, Sandy & Chris Hood by WWW @
//http://unicomp.net/users/mhood/index.html
//Is this medium a massage, or a mugging?
Dennis Powell
. Start a service REMOVING Win95 from people's drives. Either get it back
. "the way it was" with Dos/Win that works, or change them over to OS/2.
. A hard drive recovery service of sorts. It'd just take a bit of
. knowledge, some boot disks, good utilities, and possibly a paralell port
. tape backup. You could probably charge a flat or hourly fee, and
. provide house calls.
i believe that ibm offers a diskette that deletes swindle 95 and prompts
for insertion of OS/2 diskettes. if it works, then swindle 95, being
recoverable, falls to second place behind the tyson fight in the list of
scams perpetrated this month.
dep (dennis...@accbbs.com)
---
. MR/2 #9 . The immoral life is not without its consequences. -- Outis
Leon Grossman
>** Reply to note from Timothy Sipples <CHGVMIC1(TSIPPLE)> 08/11/95 1:26pm
>Well, I have been waiting for IBM public relations to give me the formal
>response that I am to post on-line. I have waited as long as I can.
>I have to say something so let me say this -
>
>I am the same David Barnes I have always been. I am committed to OS/2
>300%. My career has revolved around OS/2 for eight years now and happily
>I see no end in sight.
>
>Secret - I run NT at home. I also run Linux, SCO Unix, Win 3.1 and I would
>like a free copy of NextStep. I don't have any Apple computers because I
>can't find anyone to give me one.
>
choice at home? Or even as *one* of his OSes at home.
Just my 0.02,
Leon
Leon Grossman Jr.
lgr...@okstate.edu
Team OS/2
OSU Dept. of Chemical Engineering
Rodney R. Korte
>>
>>** Reply to note from Timothy Sipples <CHGVMIC1(TSIPPLE)> 08/11/95 1:26pm
>>Well, I have been waiting for IBM public relations to give me the formal
>>response that I am to post on-line. I have waited as long as I can.
>>I have to say something so let me say this -
>>
>>I am the same David Barnes I have always been. I am committed to OS/2
>>300%. My career has revolved around OS/2 for eight years now and happily
>>I see no end in sight.
>>
>>Secret - I run NT at home. I also run Linux, SCO Unix, Win 3.1 and I would
>>like a free copy of NextStep. I don't have any Apple computers because I
>>can't find anyone to give me one.
>>
>How can a person be committed to OS/2 if they don't use it as their OS of
>choice at home? Or even as *one* of his OSes at home.
You forgot to read the rest of the last paragraph. And the entire
part you've quoted has some context to go with it from which it is
clear that he is saying that he runs these other OSes *in addition*
to OS/2. Because of this, you can bet that Barnes knows what he's
talking about with these other OSes, rather than relying solely on
what others say and write.
--
Rodney R. Korte Disclaimer: I'm my own thinker.
The Graduate Program in Acoustics OS/2. Operate at a higher level.
202 ARL Building E-Mail: ko...@sabine.acs.psu.edu
University Park, PA 16802 USA Voice: 814-863-8319 Fax: 814-865-3119
Dennis Powell
. Is BG providing a guarantee? Certainly, I would never but it with the
. intetion of returning it. And of course, I would never, like, buy 10-15
. boxes of it and then return them.
but if you were to buy 10-15 boxes of it and return them, you can bet that
they would show up in the sales figures as 10-15 happy customers. just as
msft has counted every pc capable of running windows as actually running
windows -- and remember, for 3.0 this allegedly included 8088s, though the
guy who tried it is still waiting for it to finish booting.
dep (dennis...@accbbs.com)
---
. MR/2 #9 . Stand for something or you'll fall for anything. -- Outis
BOB HARGREAVES
You said: > How can a person be committed to OS/2 if they don't use it as
their OS of choice at home? Or even as *one* of his OSes at home. Just my
0.02, Leon
I would imagine that he uses various os's at home to be familier with their
weaknesses. ... We just had a demo at the last OS/2 users group on Windoze 95,
and it was AWWWFULLLL in my view. .... Slow, awkward, and I can't figure out
what the big deal is about the interface is. Looks like Warp to me without the
drag and drop, speed, and convienience. .....
Other than that, it was fine, if you want to buy all new apps and watch
them run slower, on your new equipment. ....
Bob H -------------------------------------------------------------------- Member:Trader's Connection 9675.6775 -**- Internet:indy...@trader.com
Arne Bruening
>In <41l1jn$16...@bubba.ucc.okstate.edu>, lgr...@okstate.edu (Leon Grossman) writes:
DAVE BARNES doesn't seem to be an OS/2 game or app so please stop
crossposting to comp.os.os2.games,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc
Arne
---*** final beta signature. Release-version soon to be released ***---
======================================================================
Arne Bruening, WMD GmbH, Hamburg, Germany
======================================================================