NW 3.12: AUTOEXEC.NCF location
Frank Kerfoot
network. I recently wanted to modify the AUTOEXEC.NCF file to include
UPS.NLM and eliminate a no longer used PSERVER. I used SYSCON as
supervisor to edit AUTOEXEC.NCF. I verified with a separate editor (W/95
notepad) that the file AUTOEXEC.NCF in the SYS:\SYSTEM directory was
modified as I intended. However, when I rebooted the server, it clearly
did not use my new AUTOEXEC version (it still loaded PSERVER, as well as
not loading UPS). In browsing around I noticed a copy of AUTOEXEC.NCF on
the DOS partition. I didn't have a DOS editor handy on a floppy to
change it, so I just tried renaming it. Sure enough, that is the one it
is booting from (it couldn't boot with the file renamed).
So what is going on? all of my Netware documentation says that
AUTOEXEC.NCF is in the Netware partition, in SYS:\SYSTEM (and that is
where SYSCON thinks it is also). This version clearly is using a copy of
that file in the DOS partition. I don't see anything in any other NCF
file which would be trying to redirect this. Does anyone have any hints
as to what is going on?
Thanks in advance,
Frank Kerfoot
Michiel Overweel
news:383D813B...@home.com...
Have a look at the AUTOEXEC.NCF in your DOS partition by typing "LOAD EDIT
C:\NWSERVER.312\AUTOEXEC.NCF" at the server console (assuming
C:\NWSERVER.312 is your NetWare server directory). I'll bet there's a
REGISTER MEMORY command in there. When a 3.12 server doesn't recognize all
of its memory, you need to use this command (well, maybe you don't - more
about that later). To avoid memory fragmentation you need to use this
command before any volumes are mounted. Unfortunately you can't put REGISTER
MEMORY in STARTUP.NCF, so that's why AUTOEXEC.NCF is in the DOS partition:
so it can run before the SYS volume is mounted.
So what can you do? It's often possible to get a NetWare server to recognize
all of its memory without using this kludge by:
- applying all current patches (see
http://support.novell.com/misc/patlst.htm),
- making sure no DOS memory managers (HIMEM.SYS, EMM386.EXE) are loaded,
- upgrading the BIOS (if possible).
You may not be able to get this to work, or you may think it's not worth the
effort. In that case the best solution would be to make sure there's only
two lines in the AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition: one saying "REGISTER
MEMORY xxx yyy" and one saying "SYS:SYSTEM\AUTOEXEC.NCF". That way you could
still use SYSCON to change the AUTOEXEC.NCF in SYS:SYSTEM without having to
worry about the one in the DOS partition. If you want to keep the file in
the DOS partition the way it is now, I'd remove all lines from the one in
SYS:SYSTEM and put in some comment saying "The *real* AUTOEXEC.NCF is in
C:\NWSERVER.312" (or words to that effect). IIRC there's a TID at Novell's
support site about this subject; you should be able to find it by searching
for "register memory" and "autoexec.ncf". Hope this helps!
--
Regards,
Michiel Overweel
michiel_...@nospam.rad.nl (You know what to do)
Hansang Bae
>Have a look at the AUTOEXEC.NCF in your DOS partition by typing "LOAD EDIT
>C:\NWSERVER.312\AUTOEXEC.NCF" at the server console (assuming
LOAD EDIT C:\SERVER.312\AUTOEXEC.NCF
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Richey Systems Main Office: (800) 776-5145
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Roger Green
idea to have a copy of the autoexec.ncf on the dos partition "just in case".
Me, I would keep copies of that and startup.ncf, AND server.exe (and any
necessary disk drivers) on a DOS boot disk.
You should be able to delete the autoexec.ncf on the dos partition, and have
no trouble. (rename if you're not absolutely certain that the two files are
in sync).
HTH
Roger G
Frank Kerfoot <ker...@home.com> wrote in message
news:383D813B...@home.com...
> Our church uses Netware 3.12 on the server for a small, 6 station
> network. I recently wanted to modify the AUTOEXEC.NCF file to include
> UPS.NLM and eliminate a no longer used PSERVER. I used SYSCON as
> supervisor to edit AUTOEXEC.NCF. I verified with a separate editor (W/95
> notepad) that the file AUTOEXEC.NCF in the SYS:\SYSTEM directory was
> modified as I intended. However, when I rebooted the server, it clearly
> did not use my new AUTOEXEC version (it still loaded PSERVER, as well as
> not loading UPS). In browsing around I noticed a copy of AUTOEXEC.NCF on
> the DOS partition. I didn't have a DOS editor handy on a floppy to
> change it, so I just tried renaming it. Sure enough, that is the one it
> is booting from (it couldn't boot with the file renamed).
>
> So what is going on? all of my Netware documentation says that
> AUTOEXEC.NCF is in the Netware partition, in SYS:\SYSTEM (and that is
> where SYSCON thinks it is also). This version clearly is using a copy of
> that file in the DOS partition. I don't see anything in any other NCF
> file which would be trying to redirect this. Does anyone have any hints
> as to what is going on?
>
Werner STEINMANN
: I think that whoever originally set up the server thought it would be a good
: idea to have a copy of the autoexec.ncf on the dos partition "just in case".
: Me, I would keep copies of that and startup.ncf, AND server.exe (and any
: necessary disk drivers) on a DOS boot disk.
: You should be able to delete the autoexec.ncf on the dos partition, and have
: no trouble. (rename if you're not absolutely certain that the two files are
: in sync).
As the original poster already found out:
he could not remove AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS partition without trouble.
At least part of AUTOEXEC.NCF has to be on the DOS partition
for certain configurations using the REGISTER MEMORY command.
Werner Steinmann
Michiel Overweel
news:81l9lk$rit$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
> "Michiel Overweel" <Michiel_...@nospam.rad.nl> writes:
> >Have a look at the AUTOEXEC.NCF in your DOS partition by typing "LOAD
EDIT
> >C:\NWSERVER.312\AUTOEXEC.NCF" at the server console (assuming
>
> LOAD EDIT C:\SERVER.312\AUTOEXEC.NCF
Oops. I guess it's been too long since I actually saw a real 3.1x server.
Sorry!
Frank Kerfoot
Thanks for the advice. I think I now understand at least one reason that
the server may have been set up with AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition.
To edit it I had assumed I would just set up a copy of DOS EDIT on a
floppy, but if I can do it from the Netware side with LOAD EDIT, so much
the easier. However, just for curiosity, how does it know which
partition to look in for AUTOEXEC.NCF? It is obviously set up up that it
only looks in the DOS partition (since changing the name in DOS disables
the boot). However, I don't see anything in STARTUP.NCF, AUTOEXEC.BAT or
anywhere else which tells it to use this version rather than the one on
the Netware volume. Also, is this a recent addition? My 5 year old or so
books don't even mention the possibility of AUTOEXEC.NCF being anywhere
but in SYS:\SYSTEM (in fact they say explicitly it can't be anywhere
else).
Thanks in advance again,
Frank Kerfoot
Michiel Overweel
> Everyine:
> Thanks for the advice. I think I now understand at least one reason that
> the server may have been set up with AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition.
> To edit it I had assumed I would just set up a copy of DOS EDIT on a
> floppy, but if I can do it from the Netware side with LOAD EDIT, so much
> the easier. However, just for curiosity, how does it know which
> partition to look in for AUTOEXEC.NCF? It is obviously set up up that it
AFAIK, it does this automatically. I think SERVER.EXE executes the first
AUTOEXEC.NCF it finds. Anybody correct me if I'm wrong.
> only looks in the DOS partition (since changing the name in DOS disables
> the boot). However, I don't see anything in STARTUP.NCF, AUTOEXEC.BAT or
> anywhere else which tells it to use this version rather than the one on
> the Netware volume. Also, is this a recent addition? My 5 year old or so
> books don't even mention the possibility of AUTOEXEC.NCF being anywhere
> but in SYS:\SYSTEM (in fact they say explicitly it can't be anywhere
> else).
Must be one of those "undocumented features". See TID 2947903 for details.
Hansang Bae
>Everyine:
>Thanks for the advice. I think I now understand at least one reason that
>the server may have been set up with AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition.
>To edit it I had assumed I would just set up a copy of DOS EDIT on a
>floppy, but if I can do it from the Netware side with LOAD EDIT, so much
>the easier. However, just for curiosity, how does it know which
>partition to look in for AUTOEXEC.NCF? It is obviously set up up that it
>the boot). However, I don't see anything in STARTUP.NCF, AUTOEXEC.BAT or
>anywhere else which tells it to use this version rather than the one on
>the Netware volume. Also, is this a recent addition? My 5 year old or so
>books don't even mention the possibility of AUTOEXEC.NCF being anywhere
>but in SYS:\SYSTEM (in fact they say explicitly it can't be anywhere
>else).
You can specify the location of the startup files as a comand line
variable to SERVER.EXE. But basically, when the server runs, it looks
for startup.ncf and the same directory as server.exe. If it also finds
autoexec.ncf, it runs that as well.
Ralph Wade Phillips
Hansang Bae wrote in message <81pi5g$m7q$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
>Frank Kerfoot <ker...@home.com> writes:
>>Everyine:
>>Thanks for the advice. I think I now understand at least one reason that
>>the server may have been set up with AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition.
>>To edit it I had assumed I would just set up a copy of DOS EDIT on a
>>floppy, but if I can do it from the Netware side with LOAD EDIT, so much
>>the easier. However, just for curiosity, how does it know which
>>partition to look in for AUTOEXEC.NCF? It is obviously set up up that it
>>only looks in the DOS partition (since changing the name in DOS disables
>>the boot). However, I don't see anything in STARTUP.NCF, AUTOEXEC.BAT or
>>anywhere else which tells it to use this version rather than the one on
>>the Netware volume. Also, is this a recent addition? My 5 year old or so
>>books don't even mention the possibility of AUTOEXEC.NCF being anywhere
>>but in SYS:\SYSTEM (in fact they say explicitly it can't be anywhere
>>else).
>
>You can specify the location of the startup files as a comand line
>variable to SERVER.EXE. But basically, when the server runs, it looks
>for startup.ncf and the same directory as server.exe. If it also finds
>autoexec.ncf, it runs that as well.
From my own LIMITED experience, it appears that SERVER.EXE looks at
SYS:SYSTEM for AUTOEXEC.NCF, but if it doesn't find it there, it looks on
the DOS partition that SERVER.EXE resides at.
By that I mean that if I load the disk drivers for the drive that
has SYS on it, 3.1x ignores the AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS side. In order to
get the DOS side AUTOEXEC to run, I need to NOT load the drivers for the SYS
volume before it starts running AUTOEXEC.NCF.
Hopefully I'm not too confusing here <grins>
RwP
Gordon Bos
autoexec.ncf. Normally the startup.ncf will contain several settings,
patch information/load and loading of disk drivers. When disk drivers
are loaded, the SYS volume (if found) will automatically be mounted
and the search path will be set to SYS:SYSTEM. If the startup routine
failes to locate the SYS volume, it will leave the searchpath to be
C:\NWSERVER (or whatever) and try to locate an autoexec.ncf
there.. There may be numerous reasons why one would want to force a
server to use an autoexec.ncf on the DOS partition, but here's some:
1) you need to do manual registering of memory (which can only be done
from autoexec but needs to be done before the first mount)
2) you want to do any other setting before mounting SYS
3) you want users to have read acces in SYS:SYSTEM but you don't want
them to be able to read autoexec and retrieve the remote console
password.
Problem with this setup is that every Novell utilty will assume
autoexec is in its normal place, including install.nlm. The only way
you'll be able to access the autoexec is from the console (there's the
security reason...) with edit.nlm. Most probable reason is memory
registering. You'll need this setup if you have a large quantity of
diskspace on your server (Why? Novell will mount all volumes
-including cdrom- in the same memoryspace that was available when
mounting SYS).
Advice: just live with it. forget what you learned and step into the
real world.... There's no such thing as a default setup that works for
everyone..
Cheers,
Gordon
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:33:10 GMT, Frank Kerfoot <ker...@home.com>
Hansang Bae
> From my own LIMITED experience, it appears that SERVER.EXE looks at
>SYS:SYSTEM for AUTOEXEC.NCF, but if it doesn't find it there, it looks on
>the DOS partition that SERVER.EXE resides at.
> By that I mean that if I load the disk drivers for the drive that
>has SYS on it, 3.1x ignores the AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS side. In order to
>get the DOS side AUTOEXEC to run, I need to NOT load the drivers for the SYS
>volume before it starts running AUTOEXEC.NCF.
Ah, that could very well be. The whole reason why AUTOEXEC.NCF was on
the DOS partition was to load the DSK drivers late in the game, so I
never really thought of it that (your) way. Interesting.
paul-lemonidis
The reason for what you are experiencing is as follows I suspect. There are
two files a NetWare server will use at startup. These are Startup.ncf and
autoexec.ncf. Startup.ncf loads the Novell disk drivers and there fore
needs to be on the DOS partition. The next thing is that the SYS: volume
will be mounted automatically and the autoexec.ncf is used from the
SYS:SYSTEM directory. However I once came across an interesting scenario on
a server that was as follows. The fact that your server won't boot when you
rename the autoexec.ncf on the DOS partition points to this.The Startup.ncf
file was all but empty and the disk drivers were on the DOS partition but
were loaded from the autoexec.ncf file in the same directory. To load them
the only option it had was to use the autoexec.ncf file on the DOS partition
as at this stage since the Novell disk drivers weren't loaded as it couldn't
mount the SYS: volume because they weren't loaded. Having had to read the
autoexec.ncf to load the disk drivers it then carried on and ignored the one
on the Novell partition. The remedy was to move the disk driver load
commands to the Startup.ncf and delete the autoexec.ncf from the DOS
partition thus restoring normality. Loading memory management tools should
be done from the DOS autoexec.bat or config.sys as appropriate. It can also
be done in he startup.ncf if need be if it is because the memory commands
are Novell specific. If security of the file (autoexec.ncf) is an issue
simply remove Read and filescan rights from the file for group everyone.
Supervisor will still see it OK.
So how will this help you? First delete autoexec.ncf from the DOS partition.
Make sure the correct commands are in the startup.ncf. Now users with
supervisor privileges should be able to view and edit the file using syscon.
and the server should boot OK.
Hope this helps.
Paul Lemonidis.
"Michiel Overweel" <Michiel_...@nospam.rad.nl> wrote in message
news:81phmd$moe$1...@buty.wanadoo.nl...
> Frank Kerfoot <ker...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:384029C6...@home.com...
> > Everyine:
> > Thanks for the advice. I think I now understand at least one reason that
> > the server may have been set up with AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition.
> > To edit it I had assumed I would just set up a copy of DOS EDIT on a
> > floppy, but if I can do it from the Netware side with LOAD EDIT, so much
> > the easier. However, just for curiosity, how does it know which
> > partition to look in for AUTOEXEC.NCF? It is obviously set up up that it
>
> AFAIK, it does this automatically. I think SERVER.EXE executes the first
> AUTOEXEC.NCF it finds. Anybody correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> > only looks in the DOS partition (since changing the name in DOS disables
> > the boot). However, I don't see anything in STARTUP.NCF, AUTOEXEC.BAT or
> > anywhere else which tells it to use this version rather than the one on
> > the Netware volume. Also, is this a recent addition? My 5 year old or so
> > books don't even mention the possibility of AUTOEXEC.NCF being anywhere
> > but in SYS:\SYSTEM (in fact they say explicitly it can't be anywhere
> > else).
>
Michael Salem
To make life a little easier when this is used, I suggest creating a
file SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF containing comments only like:
;This file SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF is not invoked: the one actually
;used is on the DOS partition. Use LOAD EDIT C:AUTOEXEC.NCF
Put only the commands which must be on the DOS partition in
C:AUTOEXEC.NCF (including mounting the system volume!), and end with
"AUTOBOOT". This file is a nuisance to edit.
Then create SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOBOOT.NCF, starting with
;Called from C:\AUTOEXEC.NCF -- this file replaces the usual
;SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF
and containing the remaining commands that would normally be in
SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF. This file is accessible and easy to edit.
This makes life relatively easy for anyone who has to work on the
system in future (including oneself after forgetting the details).
Best wishes,
--
Michael Salem
Gordon Bos
<paul-le...@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> .................. Loading memory management tools should
>be done from the DOS autoexec.bat or config.sys as appropriate. It can also
>be done in he startup.ncf if need be if it is because the memory commands
>are Novell specific. If security of the file (autoexec.ncf) is an issue
>simply remove Read and filescan rights from the file for group everyone.
>Supervisor will still see it OK.
You can't do this! First of all you should never load any drivers in
DOS prior to loading server. Second, with Novel 3.x the register
memory commands can only be in autoexec.ncf. There's a TID on Novells
website that describes why and how you should transport your
autoexec.ncf to the DOS partition. Read my post from yesterday...
If you really want to be able to leave as much as possible available
to regular tools you can use the scheme below.
C:\NWSERVER\AUTOEXEC.NCF
--------------------------------------
#SOME SET COMMANDS
#REGISTRATION OF MEMORY, E.G.
REGISTER MEMORY 1000000 F000000
#SERVERNAME/VIRTUAL LAN NUMBER
#LOAD DISK DRIVERS/DEPENDENCIES
#CALL AUTOEXEC ON THE SYS VOLUME, I.E.
SYS:SYSTEM\AUTOEXEC.NCF
-----------------------------------------
Gordon
Ken Agress
4ms2u$m...@michaels.demon.co.uk (Michael Salem) wrote:
>Re AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS partition:
>
>To make life a little easier when this is used, I suggest creating a
>file SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF containing comments only like:
>
>;This file SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOEXEC.NCF is not invoked: the one actually
>;used is on the DOS partition. Use LOAD EDIT C:AUTOEXEC.NCF
I'd modify this recommendation a bit. It's quite handy to be able to
edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF through the standard NW tools, so instead of
going this far I'd do the following:
1> Create an AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS partition that only contains
the bare minimum commands required to continue the boot process.
2> Have this AUTOEXEC.NCF perform a "MOUNT SYS" if this doesn't
occur automatically and immediately call an AUTOEXEC.NCF in
SYS:SYSTEM.
3> Add comments to the AUTOEXEC.NCF on SYS:SYSTEM indicating that
some critical commands are stored on the DOS partition and will need
to be edited there and make sure these commands are not duplicated
between the two files.
Of course, the only reason I'm aware of needing to place the
AUTOEXEC.NCF on the DOS partition is to use REGISTER MEMORY, which
should be easily fixable on somewhere around 99.9% of server-grade
hardware purchased within the last five years. Fix the problem rather
than find the kludge. (Note that this shouldn't be taken as a slam to
Michael, as he didn't actually recommend using the command, just a
comment in general).
Ken Agress/CNE
Note - While I may reply to direct e-mails, if you really
want an answer, please post to the Newsgroups.
Michiel Overweel
Thanks for the explanation. Just for the record, I'm not the one
experiencing this problem. Anyway, I don't think removing AUTOEXEC.NCF from
the DOS partition would be a good idea in this case. Read Gordon's posts in
this thread for details.
Michiel Overweel
Ken Agress <kena...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ois74sscquqd8meuf...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> (Note that this shouldn't be taken as a slam to
> Michael, as he didn't actually recommend using the command
I wouldn't dare doing that in this newsgroup ;-)
Michael Salem
...
> Loading memory management tools should
> be done from the DOS autoexec.bat or config.sys as appropriate. It can also
> be done in he startup.ncf if need be if it is because the memory commands
> are Novell specific.
This was posted a few hours ago; I note with some surprise that
nobody has yet reacted to it.
Memory management should NEVER be done in DOS for a Netware server.
There should be no CONFIG.SYS. AUTOEXEC.BAT should do no more than
start the Netware server program. Memory management stuff in DOS
(HIMEM.SYS, EMM386.EXE or equivalents) is bad news and makes trouble.
Memory management in the Netware startup files (REGISTER MEMORY ...)
should only be done if it is not otherwise possible to get the server
to see all installed memory. I won't go into detail, as this topic
has been laboured to death here many times. I think this requirement
may not be as rare as sometimes said (I've seen it on several
servers), but certainly it should only be done if there's no other
solution.
DOS and Netware memory management are not in any way equivalent to
each other: you can never choose whether to use one or the other.
I've made sweeping statements in the past that didn't apply to all
versions of Netware, so if any of the above is not generally true,
I hope somebody will say so!
By the way, I suggest using AUTOEXEC.NCF in the DOS partition, which
invokes SYS:SYSTEM/AUTOBOOT.NCF (AUTOBOOT is an arbitrary name, and
could be anything else). Someone has suggested that the file in
SYS:SYSTEM should also be called AUTOEXEC.NCF, as it can be edited
using standard Netware procedures. Personally I find this convenience
doesn't outweigh the confusion of having 2 files of the same name;
but whichever you choose, put very clear comments in both files.