SGOS a good idea?

[Harry Potter]

I think I mentioned this before, so here goes:

SGOS is short for Simple Game Operating System. It will be DOS-like and designed for games. It will use the 386's V86 mode to bank RAM into and out of the 1MB space. It will have its own file system and startup method. It will partially use INTs and partially direct CALLs patched to the actual location of a driver in memory. (The latter would be good for graphics and sound.) One more thing: SGOS will use a 128k video buffer instead of a 64k if possible. I'm thinking of making it mostly open-source freeware.

Does anybody like this idea? Please post feedback here.

[Auric__]

If you simply *want* to do it, go right ahead.

However, if you think that there's some sort of need for such a system,
well... I've heard of similarly-purposed OS's that went nowhere (or not very
far, anyway). The best example I can think of is DexOS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DexOS
http://www.dex-os.com/

--
You were right. You were always right. It was inevitable.

[Rod Pemberton]

"Harry Potter" <rose.j...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f532b57f-e8d9-435c...@googlegroups.com...

> I think I mentioned this before, so here goes:

I think you might've too.

> SGOS is short for Simple Game Operating System. It will be
> DOS-like and designed for games. It will use the 386's V86 mode
> to bank RAM into and out of the 1MB space. It will have its own
> file system and startup method. It will partially use INTs and
> partially direct CALLs patched to the actual location of a
> driver in memory. (The latter would be good for graphics and
> sound.) One more thing: SGOS will use a 128k video buffer
> instead of a 64k if possible. I'm thinking of making it mostly
> open-source freeware.

This is a DOS newsgroup. Does "designed for games" mean DOS
games? Your proposed setup seems strange to me, if you're looking
to provide an environment for DOS games. I.e., I'd expect it to
be very DOS like for all of it's features, e.g., using a DOS
filesystem, etc. If providing an environment for DOS games, I
think your two best options are 1) an emulator for the game, like
DOSBox or 2 ) an emulator for a computer which can run DOS, like
DOSEmu or MESS or Tand-Em or Bochs or VMWare.

> Does anybody like this idea? Please post feedback here.

I would ask: "Why?"...

DOS seems to always have emulators for it. It also seems that
DOSBox or DOSEmu will suffice.

Even so, you could possibly learn alot or maybe create something
excellent if you take on this project. If you have your heart set
on it, don't let us burst your bubble.


DOSBox (DOS emulator for games)
http://www.dosbox.com/

ScummVM (game emulator for some DOS games)
http://www.scummvm.org/

MAME (multiple arcade game emulators)
http://mamedev.org/

MESS (multiple computer and game console emulators)
http://www.mess.org/

DOSEmu (environment for running DOS)
http://dosemu.org/

Tand-Em (Tandy & PC Jr emulator)
http://www.oldskool.org/pc


Rod Pemberton

[Harry Potter]

It is not a DOS *emulator*. Rather, it is its own operating system. Basically, it will borrow some ideas from DOS--i.e. the text screen at start-up, upper/high RAM--but include support for and be optimized for games. The reason I posted this here is I have no where else to put it.

BTW, I need information on 386 V86 mode, upper/high RAM, the ROM BIOS and floppy access.

[Rod Pemberton]

"Harry Potter" <rose.j...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:58556266-d59b-4cd3...@googlegroups.com...

>
> It is not a DOS *emulator*. Rather, it is its own operating
> system. Basically, it will borrow some ideas from DOS--i.e. the
> text screen at start-up, upper/high RAM--but include support for
> and be optimized for games. The reason I posted this here is I
> have no where else to put it.
>

comp.lang.asm.x86 (moderated)(aka clax)
alt.os.development (aka a.o.d.)

There is no comp.* group for OS development. So, the alt group is
it. It has some knowledgeable guys. It's the Usenet place for OS
development.

comp.lang.asm.x86 (clax) is just for x86 assembly, but tends to
cross over into some OS development, etc. Many of the same
people, but not all, are reading and posting to both. Clax is
moderated. So, messages aren't posted until approved by the
moderators, i.e., delayed.

Usenet is slowly "dying" ... So, maybe you want an IRC channel.
I've not confirmed this is still active:

#osdev IRC channel
irc://irc.freenode.net/Osdev

> BTW, I need information on 386 V86 mode, upper/high RAM,
> the ROM BIOS and floppy access.

You can also try OSDev.org which has both OS development
webpages ("wiki") and a forum. It seems to be one of the most
active OS development groups around today:
http://wiki.osdev.org/

SIGOps "How to Write an Operating System"
http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigops/roll_your_own/



DevMaster - for modern game design
http://devmaster.net/

VOGON's is for DOS gaming issues on modern PCs. It's not
specifically OS development, but it may provide info on DOS.
http://vogons.zetafleet.com/index.php

BTTR software has a forum too where some DOS programmers
are still active. You'll see a bunch from comp.os.msdos.* and
alt.os.development or alt.lang.asm etc there. It requires that
you ask for an account by email.
http://www.bttr-software.de/

RBIL (Ralf Brown's Interrupt List) for DOS comes in a number of
formats. Some of the text files on things other than interrupts
(memory, devices, etc) are not included in the html formats. So,
may want the original text files too. a.o.d. page links to three:
http://aodfaq.wikispaces.com/rbil

PC Game Programmer's Encyclopedia has lots of info on game
programming and info needed for OS development
http://bespin.org/~qz/pc-gpe/

Dave Williams Programmer's Technical Reference DOSREF33
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/docs/dosref33.zip

Also, search for dospgref.zip for more advanced DOS programming.


There are some stale and older OS development websites:

Bonifide OS Development
- has a large "Tutorials" section
http://www.osdever.net/

Operating System Resource Center
- x86 programming and PC hardware info
http://www.nondot.org/sabre/os/articles

Phatcode
- has a small "Article" library
http://www.phatcode.net/

Gamedev.net
- is for games, but has an archived OS development library:
http://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/ (library archive)
http://www.gamedev.net/page/index.html (main webpage)

David Jurgens' "HelpPC"
- has PC hardware info
- an online version of it is here:
http://stanislavs.org/helppc/

PCGuide
- has a reference library on PC hardware
http://www.pcguide.com/

There are a variety of personal OS development related websites.
They have OS specialty tools, information, and/or code:

Chris Giese and John Fine mirrors
- OS development and related
- one of a few mirrors
http://geezer.osdevbrasil.net/

Alexei Frounze's
- OS development related
http://alexfru.narod.ru/
http://alexfru.chat.ru/eindex.html

James Harris has setup some OS devel websites (posts to a.o.d.)
http://codewiki.wikispaces.com/os+development
http://aodfaq.wikispaces.com/


There are a variety of websites and files just for specific
hardware info:

Craig Hart's PCI and PnP Info
http://devel.no-ip.org/mirrors/members.datafast.net.au/dft0802/

Hale Landis' ATA and ATAPI pages
http://ata-atapi.com/

Andries Brouwer's "Keyboard Scancodes"
http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/kbd/scancodes.html

Free VGA
"Hardware Level VGA and SVGA Video Programming Information"
http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs140/projects/pintos/specs/freevga/home.htm

Wotsit's File Format archive, e.g., graphics, filesystems, archive
formats
http://www.wotsit.org/default.asp

Finn Thoegersen VGADOC package of VGA programming info
http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/stmsdos9709/disk1/DISC1/VGA/VGADOC4B.ZIP


There are a bunch of sites archived via WayBack Archive, if you
know about them:

PCI Local BUS, PCI Vendor and Device Lists
http://web.archive.org/web/20021009223250/www.yourvote.com/pci/

Dark Fiber's "Write Your Own Operating System" via WayBack Archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20111107075550/http://www.trunix.org/programlama/os/os-faq/os-faq.html

Groovy Web's "How to Write Your Own OS" via WayBack Archive
http://web.archive.org/web/20080424073701/http://www.groovyweb.uklinux.net/index.php?page_name=how%20to%20write%20your%20own%20os


At one point in time or another, there was a Usenet group on just
about everything. So, you can find excellent FAQ's like these
which include IDE, SVGA, video, etc:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/pc-hardware-faq/

Searchable Usenet FAQ and RFC archive:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/


Wikipedia can provide lots of background on OS development:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system_development

Google and Yahoo can be used to find datasheets or programming
info for various PC specific hardware.

AMD and Intel provide programming manuals for the x86 processor.

There are a number of standardization organizations that release
standards that don't need a fee or are otherwise available...,
e.g., ATA/ATAPI or FAT12/16, VESA, PnP, etc.

Finally, there is lots of stuff in Google Groups archive of
Usenet.

Of course, one of the first things you should do is post to
alt.os.development and ask whether to program in C or assembly,
and which tools, e.g., MASM or NASM, DJGPP or OpenWatcom, etc.
;-)

HTH, that's a huge collection of info from a bunch of posts of
mine and my personal link "archive" ... Spend a little time
perusing some of the sites above. Some are difficult to navigate,
or easy to overlook or dismiss what's there.


Rod Pemberton

[Jim Leonard]

On Jan 15, 8:06 am, Harry Potter <rose.josep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It is not a DOS *emulator*.  Rather, it is its own operating system.  Basically, it will borrow some ideas from DOS--i.e. the text screen at start-up, upper/high RAM--but include support for and be optimized for games.  The reason I posted this here is I have no where else to put it.
>
> BTW, I need information on 386 V86 mode, upper/high RAM, the ROM BIOS and floppy access.

This has all been done before as Dex OS. Literally everything you're
trying to achieve is already written with full source code available
at the author's website.

If you're doing this as a personal project, that's fine. If you're
doing it thinking that anyone else in the world would have a use for
it that isn't already served by Dex OS, pick a different project.

[Harry Potter]

That killed one project. :( I googled Dex OS and like the idea. Maybe I'll download it later.

[Jim Leonard]

On Jan 16, 11:02 am, Harry Potter <rose.josep...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That killed one project.  :(  I googled Dex OS and like the idea.  Maybe I'll download it later.

Why the frowny face? You should be happy that you didn't spend weeks
or months reinventing the wheel. Now you can pick a personal project
that has NOT been done before, or done properly, and your time will be
better spent.