RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Matthew Petricone
would recommend reading the documentation for virtualbox. It emulates an
actual X86 pc, and you need to configure it with a virtual hard drive and
other virtual hardware. There is usually a PDF manual installed with
VirtualBox. Then you would need to actually install the OS, and configure it
much like it was an actual PC. This may seem like a pain, but the learning
curve for VirtualBox is less than other options.
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:50 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Hello Rod, Rugxulo, and other members of the list
As you told me, I downloaded and tried to use VirtualBox because DOSBox is
very slow for my DJGPP videogame program
the matter now is that I have no lowest idea of how to use it, .... the
tipical MS-DOS screen that used to appear with DOSBox brights absent, and a
dialog box tells me to create a new virtual machine
I remind those who don´t know, that I learnt through Rugxulo that I should
run my game under DOSBox or another emulator in order to the music sounds
correctly cos under Windows it sounded wrong
can someone help me and teach me how to run my game with this?
thank you
Pablo
from Bs As Argentina
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3422 - Release Date: 02/04/11
02:34:00
Matthew Petricone
recently. To make it worse I don't even think you can buy it anymore. You
can try Dr. Dos, or Free DOS. I have had issues with them in the past, but
they work for many apps.
Good Luck on the DOS hunt!
Matt
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:23 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Where can I download MS-DOS 6.22 from? I tried google but there is nothing
anywhere
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
--- El vie 4-feb-11, Matthew Petricone <strs...@gmail.com> escribió:
Matthew Petricone
It's probably not what you are used to. Under DOS in virtual box you
probably do not have access to your actual hard drive. While there is a
shared folder system, it dos not work under DOS. I think the easiest way is
to make a ISO of the data you want, and mount that under virtual box as a
CD, then copy it to your VHD.
Hope that helped,
Matt
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:00 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
I downloaded FreeDOS and booted my virtual machine (VirtualBOX) from a CD
then appeared this
X:\
I chose to boot and run from the CD in VirtualBOX boot options
My problem now is I can`t access drive C: and the order MOUNT doesn't exist
as in DOSBox
I typed DIR and system displayed the CD contents
Can someone tell me how is the directory handling on VirtualBOX?
thanks
Pablo
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
--- El vie 4-feb-11, Pablo Marty <tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar>
escribió:
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3426 - Release Date: 02/06/11
02:34:00
Rugxulo
On Feb 6, 1:18 pm, "Matthew Petricone" <strstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's probably not what you are used to. Under DOS in virtual box you
> probably do not have access to your actual hard drive. While there is a
> shared folder system, it dos not work under DOS.
I think?? (but never tested) that MS "NET USE" or "NET SHARE" or
whatever gobbledegook might work under VirtualBox, but I have no idea
how.
EDIT: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33357
> I think the easiest way is
> to make a ISO of the data you want, and mount that under virtual box as a
> CD, then copy it to your VHD.
>
> Hope that helped,
> Matt
DOSEMU on Linux would be easier (in theory). However, in the interest
of facilitating this line of thinking (though again I haven't tried it
lately), you can get a DJGPP build of MKISOFS.EXE from here:
http://alexfru.narod.ru/os/fat/fat.html
And here's a rough example of its use (hopefully self-explanatory):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used the new MKISOFS command line suggested in our Wiki:
mkisofs -R -D -V "FreeDOS 1.0" -o ~/fdbasecd-remastered.iso \
-b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot \
-boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table /tmp/fdbasecd-contents/
...to make an ISO of fdbasecd of FreeDOS 1.0 which now does
boot on my PC. The previous version just got stuck when it
tried to load ISOLINUX. Which was, uhm, not so convenient.
Eric
PS: The isolinux/isolinux.bin file in my tmp directory had
to be writeable to make the "remastering" work, so I had to
make a real tmp copy of the old cd, not just mount it...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod Pemberton
news:893405....@web45114.mail.sp1.yahoo.com...
> Rugxulo said:
> > [...]
> > Eric
> > [...]
>
> Eric is your real name?
>
No, I think he quoted the info from a guy who compiled the tool. Likely,
it's Eric Auer... Eric "contributes" to FreeDOS related DOS stuff.
Rod Pemberton
PS. I knew a guy by that name or very similar once. If it's the same guy,
he's an F'ing ASS****.
Rod Pemberton
>
> Rod, your vocabulary made my reply reject
>
Sorry. Actually, it was in your reply, so it blocked "your" language...
:-)
> I don't understand why yours didn't
>
I'm not censored. You are censored, apparently.
Your Usenet host, or your email client, is censoring, blocking, or filtering
words someone else decided were unacceptable for you to use.
From the message source of your post, I'd guess that you are posting to
Usenet newsgroup comp.os.msdos.djgpp via email through the DJGPP email to
Usenet gateway. You aren't posting to Usenet directly as I am. If so, it's
likely the DJGPP email to Usenet gateway rejected. Alternately, the Usenet
host that the DJGPP gateway uses rejected it: giganews.com. You can use
aioe.org to post.
AIOE website:
http://www.aioe.org
AIOE news server:
news://nntp.aioe.org
news://news.aioe.org
> you know, I'm argentine; there are many words and contractions I don't
> know
>
Sure, I'll help you with that... :-) I just abbreviated a vulgarity.
You'll need to delete all of these lines before you reply:
F'ing ASS****
fucking asshole
I don't know how to translate it to Spanish. The F-word (fuck) literally
means to have sex, but it is vulgar. However, it has many usages today.
There is an entire website setup for the thousand or so uses of the word.
Insults and vulgarities are the most common. It can be used for every part
of English, from noun to verb to adjective to adverb, etc. It does not
translate well to other languages.
"Fucking asshole" a bit like bastard (cabron) but much harsher or angrier
and using different words. I will take a guess from stuff on the
Internet... I'm not sure if any of this will make sense in Spanish:
fucking asshole ~ "pinche pendejo" - "pinche culero" - "puta ojete"
fuck ~ culear/joder/tirarse/follarse/coger/cachar/zingar
fucking ~ pendejo/ojete/cerote/chingada
asshole ~ culero/bulodo/sustantivo/capullo/gilipollas/forro de mierda
> You mean that guy Eric (that is not Rugxulo) is not a very good person?
> I seem to see you don't like him
>
Yes. It's possible that he is a guy I do not like. Unfortunately,
frequently, there are multiple people with the same name.
I can't conclude it's him just by the name.
> But also I'd like to be able to use the VHD; can you help me with that?
>
What is VHD?
Rod Pemberton
DJ Delorie
"Rod Pemberton" <do_no...@notreplytome.cmm> writes:
> If so, it's likely the DJGPP email to Usenet gateway rejected.
It did. No foul language here, please, we have minors using DJGPP.
Matthew Petricone
I'm trying to keep up - it sounds like you've got your data on a CD or ISO
and working in VirtualBox. Assuming you have the Virtual Machine setup
right, and installed FreeDOS, you are using a virtual hard disk. You can
copy from the CD to the HD just like normal. The VHD is just a file on your
physical machine that acts like a hard drive on our virtual machine. It
would probably be your C drive when in FreeDos, so copy or xcopy would work
fine.
If your need to set up the CD in VitualBox, it is under the storage settings
of the virtual machine. You can point it to a real CD/DVD drive or an image
of one.
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:42 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: Re: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Well, it's Ok.
Changing the issue, will someone help me to access VHD in VBox?
thank you
you all are very nice in the list
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
--- El lun 7-feb-11, DJ Delorie <d...@delorie.com> escribió:
De: DJ Delorie <d...@delorie.com>
Asunto: Re: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Para: dj...@delorie.com
"Rod Pemberton" <do_no...@notreplytome.cmm> writes:
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3428 - Release Date: 02/07/11
02:34:00
Matthew Petricone
hard drive. You should read the documentation for VirtualBox, as it would
answer all your questions. Then, I would recomend re-visiting all your
virtual machine settings, or even creating a new one.
It is also possible your hard drive is not C(unlikely), and your CD is not
X(probable).
I would recommend copying with XCOPY /E /R X:\JUEGOS\ C:\JUEGOS\
hi, everyone
Matt, you mean I should type
COPY X:\JUEGOS\*.* C:\JUEGOS ???
I tried
C: [Enter]
and it said "invalid drive"
Could it be that I didn't configurate well my VHD? How do I do it?
and another thing:
I added to my boot CD my game files, (I saw them with My PC Explorer) and
when typed DIR that folder did not appear....
X:\> DIR
neither the CD command could access that folder
Do I need to use 2 different CDs? .... or use the VHD .....
thank you guys
Pablo
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
--- El lun 7-feb-11, Matthew Petricone <strs...@gmail.com> escribió:
Rod Pemberton
news:xnfwrzp...@delorie.com...
> "Rod Pemberton" <do_no...@notreplytome.cmm> writes:
>
> > If so, it's likely the DJGPP email to Usenet gateway rejected.
>
> It did. No foul language here, please, we have minors using DJGPP.
>
I'd respect that position, if I thought it were true. However, this is
Usenet. It's not for children. It never has been. Think of all the binary
alt.* groups. It wasn't 25 years ago. It still isn't today. I'm not aware
of ever seeing a post from a child.
The volume here is virtually non-existant. I'm surprised
comp.os.msdos.djgpp didn't get itself on the recent Big-8 deletion list. If
Andris Pavenis and Juan Manuel Guerrero hadn't been posting "ANNOUNCE"
messages, I think this group might've failed the Big-8 stage 1 requirements.
This group is not a DJGPP forum, or Listserv that you control DJ. You
could've made this group moderated, if you so wished. You didn't. That's
your failure. You still can, but AISI there is no point anymore. DJGPP's
time has past. Well, there might be one point to moderation: Big-8 doesn't
delete moderated groups. Or, two: you can block any words you don't like,
for any language.
DJGPP is not being used to code DOS, e.g., FreeDOS or DR-DOS. It was being
used to code FreeDOS-32, but that's been stalled for 6 years now. AFAIK,
it's not being used to code new OSes, or any major applications. DJGPP
hasn't progressed in the 6 or 7 years that I've been reading here. The
handful of serious users of DJGPP stopped posting 3 to 4 years ago. I'd
guess that most moved on. For all practical purposes, DJGPP is dead. It's
frozen in time. It tried to move to XP, sort of... It hasn't, yet...
That's still in Beta. 7 years of Beta... No demand? It has yet to find
another OS to give it purpose, or something to give it life, like a DOS
shell for Windows 7. I've repeatedly suggested two things that could
breathe some life into DJGPP: GNU GLIBC, and recompiled v2.03 with 64-bit
support enabled. GLIBC would allow GNU tools on DOS to just work. 64-bit
would allow current users to migrate from 32-bit. They'll have to do so at
some point. I.e., you'll lose them. So, the void is/was being filled by
other compilers: Cygwin, Pelles C, LCC-Win32, LLVM, MinGW, etc. All the
recent x86 OS developers seem to be using Linux w/GNU GCC, or MASM.
Rod Pemberton
DJ Delorie
> However, this is Usenet.
Let me clarify - "this" is NOT just usenet. There's a gateway between
usenet and the mailing list. The gateway has the filter, so it's the
mailing list that's filtered.
As for the rest of your arguments, if you want to leave djgpp, I won't
try to stop you.
Eli Zaretskii
> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:45:25 -0500
> Bytes: 3360
>
> For all practical purposes, DJGPP is dead. It's frozen in time. It
> tried to move to XP, sort of... It hasn't, yet... That's still in
> Beta. 7 years of Beta...
I don't know what you are talking about. DJGPP v2.03 works very well
on XP, and is rock solid there. I'm using it for the last 7 years to
maintain the DJGPP port of Emacs. There's no need whatsoever to go to
the beta-quality v2.04 (which, I hear, is also much more stable than
some release-quality packages out there).
> I've repeatedly suggested two things that could
> breathe some life into DJGPP: GNU GLIBC, and recompiled v2.03 with 64-bit
> support enabled. GLIBC would allow GNU tools on DOS to just work.
GNU tools seem to have no problem working with the library we have.
Volunteers are welcome to port glibc, of course, but I see no reason
that it will "breathe some life" into DJGPP. glibc is just a library.
> 64-bit would allow current users to migrate from 32-bit. They'll
> have to do so at some point. I.e., you'll lose them. So, the void
> is/was being filled by other compilers: Cygwin, Pelles C, LCC-Win32,
> LLVM, MinGW, etc. All the recent x86 OS developers seem to be using
> Linux w/GNU GCC, or MASM.
And of course, none of this is relevant to the issue at hand.
Matthew Petricone
Did you get any of your issues worked out? I seem to be missing one or two
from this thread.
~Matt
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:52 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: Re: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Now I've read it entirely. Rod, it isn't for you to get so anoyed with
DJGPP, it will never be dead ..... neither the DOS system .... I hope some
day you (all members) can run my game and see what I could do with DJGPP in
a relatively easy way .... can you imagine the mess it would be to write a
game with other languages??? or to edit graphics??? with DJGPP I made my own
graphics editor ...
//// I know that perhaps Mr DJ Delorie's way to say things isn't the best,
but it's his way, ... I don´t disbelieve of his good intention neither
anyone else
I have just got 2 ideas: 1st I could give my code files to the list so the
ones who want could learn to write games (like Mario) though my code is
quite untidy ....
2nd perhaps you, Rugxulo, could upload somewhere my Mario game, so everyone
can see it, for though it is running from Windows XP (without music) but I
think it would be good that djgpp people knows it .... modestly I think it's
good, mainly it took me 2 or 3 years working a few hours some days ... then
probably all members will be happier to help me with VBox
I wish those who are altered succed in calming down, and return to normal
way
thank you
Pablo
Matthew Petricone
Hello,
No it won't boot off your normal HD. If you create a new virtual machine inside VirtualBox, and follow the wizard, this would be the easiest way to create one - just don't skip the hard drive step. It's fairly simple, but as I've stated before, I cannot explain it any better than the manual.
Good Luck.
From: Pablo Marty
[mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011
9:22 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
|
Hi Matt
I booted FreeDOS on VirtualBOX from a CD ... then, as I couldn't access the Virtual Hard Drive with typing C: [Enter], I copied the folder that contains my game to the boot CD ; it booted but at entering DIR my data folder didn´t appear (at My PC Windows Explorer it did)
So I supose I'll have to access the VHD ... cos perhaps the boot disk can't store other data than the system .... if it was fisically there and wasn¡t even visible ....
It has to be something in the configuration ... you know about this, Matt? thank you
|
Pablo |
--- El mar 8-feb-11, Matthew Petricone <strs...@gmail.com> escribió: |
|
|
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3430 - Release Date: 02/08/11 02:34:00
Rod Pemberton
>
> > However, this is Usenet.
>
> Let me clarify - "this" is NOT just usenet.
>
comp.os.msdos.djgpp is Usenet. Period.
> There's a gateway between
> usenet and the mailing list. The gateway has the filter,
> so it's the mailing list that's filtered.
>
Google archives Usenet too, does that mean it's not "just Usenet" because
someone can read it in a browser? Gmane distributes Usenet via email and
http, does that mean it's not "just Usenet"
because someone can read it in a browser or receive it via email? Usenet is
sent over RSS too, what about that?
Claiming "this" - whatever "that" is - "is NOT just usenet" is stupid. If
you chose to distribute Usenet via email, you're the problem. Let's be
really clear: YOU should NOT expect Usenet, and/or it's users to comply with
your stupidity.
> As for the rest of your arguments, if you want to leave djgpp, I won't
> try to stop you.
Oh, so you're wanting *zero* users? Is that it? You feel trapped? You
feel can't "retire" from DJGPP? Then, why do you care about what people
post all? You never reply to DJGPP questions. You, the creator of the
DJGPP project, only reply to to scold or create hostility. All you need to
do is shut it all down. You'll be free from the hell you created for
yourself. I'm sure you invested much time in DJGPP. As is now, it's all
going to waste. Two decades of work resulting in a fruitless pursuit. That
has to hurt. Shut it down, or take it to the next level: ELF, 64-bits,
GLIBC, etc.
Rod Pemberton
DJ Delorie
"Rod Pemberton" <do_no...@notreplytome.cmm> writes:
> comp.os.msdos.djgpp is Usenet. Period.
Read the newsgroup's charter. At its creation, it included (as per the
charter) the dj...@delorie.com mailing list in a two-way gateway as part
of "this". The comp.os.msdos.djgpp newsgroup has *never* stood alone,
it has *always* been integrated with the mailing list. The mailing list
has always been filtered, the newsgroup has never been. That's
intentional. That gives djgpp users two different OFFICIAL ways to
participate, according to their desires.
> If you chose to distribute Usenet via email, you're the problem.
> Let's be really clear: YOU should NOT expect Usenet, and/or it's users
> to comply with your stupidity.
I don't understand why you're being so hostile about a system that's
been in place for decades.
> Oh, so you're wanting *zero* users? Is that it? You feel trapped?
I don't feel trapped at all. I'm just saying, if you don't like djgpp,
you don't have to use it. I won't take it personally - I don't use
DJGPP myself any more. People who *do* use DJGPP can continue to do so
for as long as they like, and I'll keep the newsgroup, mailing list, web
site, and distribution channels available for them.
> Then, why do you care about what people post all?
Just because I don't have anything to say at the moment doesn't mean I
don't respect the other djgpp users.
> You, the creator of the DJGPP project, only reply to to scold or
> create hostility.
Huh? I explained what happened, and nicely asked people to be polite
and respectful of others. I even said "please".
> All you need to do is shut it all down. As is now, it's all going to
> waste. Two decades of work resulting in a fruitless pursuit. That
> has to hurt. Shut it down, or take it to the next level: ELF,
> 64-bits, GLIBC, etc.
I see no need to do any of that. DJGPP works just fine for the people
who wish to use it, and for those who want 64-bit ELF glibc, install
Linux. Or use Mingw64. Or Cygwin. DJGPP was a huge success, and
personally very satisfying. But, nothing lasts forever, and DJGPP is no
exception. Seeing bigger and better things come along (which I've been
part of, no less) doesn't hurt me at all. After all, I was a key
developer of Cygwin for a while, and now work for the leading Linux
software company.
Matthew Petricone
but it needs to be configured properly. I can verify VirtualBox 3.2.8
r64453 works with FreeDOS and CDs. I've tried here with FreeDOS and
VirtualBox and can confirm some CDs don't work. This was due to a format
issue. Try using basic CD format ISO 9660 or as close to that as possible.
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 1:28 AM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Then if I create the VHD correctly I can access it just by typing C: ?
and I should copy my data from a CD to the VHD? but will VBox read my data
if I copy it to the CD ? cos when I copied it to the same boot CD it
couldn't read that folder ..... just didn't appear in the DIR list ....
maybe it works with another CD ...?
thank you Matt
Asesinar y comer un perro o un gato es lo mismo q hacerlo a una vaca, un
pollo, un cerdo o un pez. El genocidio no discrimina. No seas complice de
genocidas. No seas genocida. En la vida tarde o temprano todo vuelve. No
comas cadaveres. No seas necrófago.
--- El mié 9-feb-11, Matthew Petricone <strs...@gmail.com> escribió:
De: Matthew Petricone <strs...@gmail.com>
Asunto: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Para: dj...@delorie.com
Fecha: miércoles, 9 de febrero de 2011, 2:54
Hello,
No it won't boot off your normal HD. If you create a new virtual machine
inside VirtualBox, and follow the wizard, this would be the easiest way to
create one - just don't skip the hard drive step. It's fairly simple, but
as I've stated before, I cannot explain it any better than the manual.
Good Luck.
________________________________________
From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotr...@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:22 PM
To: dj...@delorie.com
Subject: RE: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
Hi Matt
I booted FreeDOS on VirtualBOX from a CD .... then, as I couldn't access the
Virtual Hard Drive with typing C: [Enter], I copied the folder that contains
my game to the boot CD ; it booted but at entering DIR my data folder didn´t
appear (at My PC Windows Explorer it did)
So I supose I'll have to access the VHD .... cos perhaps the boot disk can't
store other data than the system .... if it was fisically there and wasn¡t
even visible ....
It has to be something in the configuration .... you know about this, Matt?
thank you
Pablo
~Matt
good, mainly it took me 2 or 3 years working a few hours some days ... then
probably all members will be happier to help me with VBox
I wish those who are altered succed in calming down, and return to normal
way
thank you
Pablo
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3430 - Release Date: 02/08/11
02:34:00
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3432 - Release Date: 02/09/11
02:34:00
Rugxulo
On Feb 8, 2:20 pm, Eli Zaretskii <e...@gnu.org> wrote:
> > From: "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notreplytome.cmm>
> > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:45:25 -0500
> > Bytes: 3360
>
> > For all practical purposes, DJGPP is dead. It's frozen in time. It
> > tried to move to XP, sort of... It hasn't, yet... That's still in
> > Beta. 7 years of Beta...
>
> I don't know what you are talking about. DJGPP v2.03 works very well
> on XP, and is rock solid there. I'm using it for the last 7 years to
> maintain the DJGPP port of Emacs. There's no need whatsoever to go to
> the beta-quality v2.04 (which, I hear, is also much more stable than
> some release-quality packages out there).
(corrections welcome, obviously Eli knows 1000x more about this than I
do)
Only with patchlevel 2 (backported from 2.04?) did 2.03 (circa 2000)
become "stable" on Win2k/XP, thanks to CWS' workarounds (leaking
selectors?). And DJGPP still can't even pretend to be at the same
level of functionality as on Win9x. Various things broke, gfx support
is weaker, etc. But we grudgingly accept it because XP is more stable
(well, and we don't have much choice anyways, it's the popular OS. Or
was.)
Besides, Win9x won't barely run, if at all, on modern hardware and
isn't even half as well supported, in apps or drivers, as XP. Even
Win2k is too old for most developers. So those are even more difficult
options.
XP came out in (late?) 2001. Since this was the first NT version meant
for home users, they declared (stand-alone) DOS dead. SP2 came out in
2004 (luckily not "yet another" OS release). SP3 is about a year or so
old. MS calls XP "old" and "deprecated". They don't sell it on new
machines anymore. Clearly they aren't going to fix all our NTVDM woes.
XP Mode (via VPC) for Win 7 (Business, Enterprise, Ultimate only)
exists as optional download, but it's not meant (or allowed) for home
users. Sure, XP works "fairly" well for DJGPP, or at least better than
Win2k3, Vista, 7, 64-bit (nada), but that's not really saying much.
Oh, and VS2010's runtime doesn't even support older XP versions
anymore. Software developers barely still support XP, and obviously
testing/support for it is seriously waning (ahem, McAfee). In other
words, even if I (barely) like XP and it works, I can't rely on it
anymore. Extended support (or whatever) ends somewhere around 2014.
Then even XP will truly be dead. :-(
P.S. The changes in 2.04 were pretty much CWS' work (right??). He's
been too busy to finish it. Perhaps he will one day, but he will
probably need all our help. Better support for 4 GB files, better
memory management (??), symlinks, etc. I actually (barely) prefer it
and use it though admittedly 2.03p2 is "close enough" for most things.
Yeah, I'm not ready to give up on DJGPP yet. It's "good enough" for my
DOS needs. :-)
Charles Sandmann
> become "stable" on Win2k/XP
The refresh was released in December 2001, over 9 years ago,
and included fixes for many modules to work around NTVDM bugs
in Windows 5. Windows 2000 and Windows XP are very similar and
bug compatible (and claim windows versions NT5.0 and NT5.1).
I haven't used a DOS or Win 9x OS since January 2000, with
the release of Windows 2000. But I still use many DJGPP and
personal applications built with DJGPP daily. v2.03 has been
my preferred djgpp version since the 2001 update. I also use
many apps built with VisualC from VS6 (circa 1997) as native
Win32 console apps. But the RTL support is very poor, so requires
either hacking source or some support routines to port to
the Win32 native environment.
I prefer small, fast images, so avoid tools that contain bloat
(personal definition: always getting features I don't want or need).
So I prefer to use Juan's libsupp with v2.03 when needed to
add the required RTL functional requirements for many
apps written / enhanced since the 1990s. v2.04 just isn't
ready in my opinion for my use - and my djgpp use is now
minimal enough to make it not worth while to be the release
manager to move it from beta to release.
That's been the one and only reason that v2.04 has never
been released - no one has wanted it bad enough to be the
release manager, create a plan, clear the required bugs,
schedule a final release candidate.
But new versions of windows (Vista, 7) are less NTVDM
compatible. 64-bit versions do not support 16-bit
applications (a hardware limitation) - so there is no DOS
to load the stub or to handle DOS interrupts. It's clear to
me that Win32 console apps are the fix for this problem.
Since there are are other compilers that address that area,
I might borrow some of the well debugged, tight DJGPP
code for RTL improvements, but that's it.
I still think djgpp apps are good for embedded systems,
close to the metal diagnosis apps, etc. And until I have to
deal with 64-bit windows every day ... it's still good
enough for the big pile of already built apps.
>P.S. The changes in 2.04 were pretty much CWS' work (right??).
Not at all. The v2.03 refresh was my idea, and I acted as
the release manager on the update. I had several Win 2000
systems used on a daily basis, and the bugs personally bugged
me enough to make sure it worked. I helped work on v2.04
until Andrew quit as release manager.
> (v2.04...) Better support for 4 GB files, better
> memory management (??), symlinks, etc.
There are problems with the APIs for files over 2GB; I'm not
sure this is fixable (maybe it should be pulled out).
free() has a performance bug - which could be fixable
by not trying so hard to merge blocks. The alternate
malloc() is missing functionality and was not stable last time
I saw it tested.
Charles Sandmann
I've been using v2.03 without issue for 9 years now on XP, so this is
just wrong.
> That's still in Beta. 7 years of Beta... No demand?
v2.04 has been in beta for around 9 years. No one has wanted
it bad enough to complete it. DJGPP is a volunteer effort. Some
people have claimed the justification for v2.04 was better XP
support, but I have never agreed with that opinion. v2.04 does
have much more support for recent function calls, which makes
porting recent "linux only" type software easier.
> I've repeatedly suggested two things that could
> breathe some life into DJGPP: GNU GLIBC, and recompiled v2.03 with 64-bit
> support enabled. GLIBC would allow GNU tools on DOS to just work. 64-bit
> would allow current users to migrate from 32-bit.
DJGPP is build on a DOS API, which requires a 16-bit DOS. 64-bit OSes
cannot run 16-bit apps directly (this is a hardware limitation) - so it
would all
need to be emulated (SLOW), and would not launch seamlessly like 16-bit
apps currently do under 32-bit Windows. Moving to a different API is a
complete
re-write. If you need to run on 64-bit windows, you need applications built
with a a different run-time to use the Windows native API (either the 32-bit
or 64-bit).
Rod Pemberton
news:af0d0aa4-7793-443d...@p16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
>
> Win9x won't barely run, if at all, on modern hardware and
> isn't even half as well supported, in apps or drivers, as XP.
>
It's not dead yet...
This is basic OS software for the machine this post is from. I've also
installed most other official and unofficial Win98 updates from MGDX'
website.
Win98 SE
Nvidia drivers - Tihiy patched
KernelEx
SESP4 - unofficial SP2 beta 4 for Win98
NUSB - native USB drivers for Win98
I'm using this hardware. The Neo-F motherboard is *incompatible* with
Windows 98 according to the manufacturer. Notice the Solid State Disk
drive. Win98 doesn't support SATA. It's in IDE emulation mode through the
BIOS. Even with v86 mode-switching it pumps multiple GBs per second.
Notice the video card. Official drivers for it for Win98 are not available.
It gets near 500fps in Q3A if framerate is uncapped. I had to disable the
onboard soundcard and ethernet since there were no Win98 drivers available.
I'm using other cards I had that work with Win98. I recently updated from
1GB to 4GB. I had to switch the xms manager in DOS. I'm now using
Japheth's HIMEMX. I tried a number of others. I didn't test FDXXMS or
XMGR. Memory is capped to 1GB for Win98.
AMD X2 5600+ 2.8Ghz AM2
MSI K9N Neo-F
EVGA Nvidia 7960GT 512MB
OCZ Sata II 64GB SSD
Logitech MX-518
4GB memory
I'm running this current non-Windows 98 software (via KernelEx). Opera is
very fast. Blink-of-eye fast on this machine. Faster than the Google
Chrome ads on TV, literally. The machine is a few years old now.
Opera 11.01
Mozilla FireFox 3.6.13 and 3.5.16
Java 6 update 23
Adobe Flash 10,1,102,64
OpenOffice 3.2
Hmm, it seems they've updated Flash to 10,2,152,26. I'll test it later.
Info on running Win98 on modern hardware:
http://www.msfn.org/board//index.php?act=ST&f=91&t=95815
KernelEx - allows various NT/2k/XP/Vista/7 software to work on Win98:
http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/
Win98 updates, such as unofficial SP2 beta 4 and native USB, via
MGDX/Axcel216 update site:
http://www.mdgx.com/
The things "missing" from Win98 are:
-drivers for certain hardware, esp. motherboard integrated soundcards,
ethernet, winmodems
-possibly video card drivers, there are some patched versions
-SATA drivers for Win98
-multi-core cpu support in the OS
The KernelEx developers said supporting XP drivers would be a problem.
HTH,
Rod Pemberton
Rugxulo
On Feb 10, 9:50 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notreplytome.cmm>
wrote:
> "Rugxulo" <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:af0d0aa4-7793-443d...@p16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Win9x won't barely run, if at all, on modern hardware and
> > isn't even half as well supported, in apps or drivers, as XP.
>
> It's not dead yet...
The fact that some hard-working people extended the life of an
"obsolete" OS is admirable. But the point was that they (and we) are
the exception to the rule. Most software projects don't care about
anything besides the "big three" (Mac, Win, Lin), at best, and even
then only the latest supported version. Actually a lot of them don't
even care that much! Strategic or political reasons? Who knows, but it
feels really dumb to me. :-/
Rugxulo
On Feb 8, 4:25 pm, "Matthew Petricone" <strstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ________________________________________
> From: Pablo Marty [mailto:tigrepotrazosalv...@yahoo.com.ar]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:52 PM
> To: dj...@delorie.com
> Subject: Re: VIRTUAL BOX and my GAME - Mr Rod Pemberton
>
> I have just got 2 ideas: 1st I could give my code files to the list so the
> ones who want could learn to write games (like Mario) though my code is
> quite untidy ....
> 2nd perhaps you, Rugxulo, could upload somewhere my Mario game, so everyone
> can see it, for though it is running from Windows XP (without music) but I
> think it would be good that djgpp people knows it .... modestly I think it's
> good, mainly it took me 2 or 3 years working a few hours some days ... then
> probably all members will be happier to help me with VBox
Quite honestly, FreeDOS just doesn't have enough volunteers (or aren't
organized enough), hence the 1.0 CDs (and .ISOs) are kinda old by now
(2006). I still struggle with my own heavily-modified floppies. Maybe
one day I'll find the energy to update 'em, who knows. A floppy is
much easier to modify (for me) than .ISO, but like I mentioned, it
should (in theory) be fairly easy to create our own .ISO (CD-RW ftw!).
Yeah, maybe DJGPP needs to make its own distro (hosted on SourceForge)
based upon FreeDOS. (Please don't think old uDos or whatever counts,
it's too old and buggy, last I checked.) But personally I would prefer
we packed everything in .7z to keep download size down. (I hate seeing
so many 600+ MB .ISOs.) But we'd have to agree what goes on there.
Personally I think FreeDOS "BASE" + enough to rebuild GCC, Bash, etc.
should suffice. But I'd have to check my installs and scripts first.
Better (but much harder) would be minimal Linux (terminal?) + DOSEMU,
but I'd have to spend a year or two poring over Linux From Scratch
first. :-(
Anyways, if (and only if) you're willing to share your sources ("open
source", see OSI), you could create a public site/page on SourceForge
or Berlios or Google Code. Otherwise you could maybe use Google Sites,
Tripod, 110mb, or similar. All I've got is a (messy, wimpy) Google
Site myself, and even some of that should probably be transferred to
SourceForge to clear up some room (though I'm skeptical anybody cares,
but for archiving ...).
Rod Pemberton
> On Feb 10, 9:50 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notreplytome.cmm>
> wrote:
> > "Rugxulo" <rugx...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:af0d0aa4-7793-443d...@p16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Win9x won't barely run, if at all, on modern hardware and
> > > isn't even half as well supported, in apps or drivers, as XP.
>
> > It's not dead yet...
>
> anything besides the "big three" (Mac, Win, Lin), at best,
>
It's a matter of limited resources and/or profit.
Rod Pemberton
Rugxulo
On Feb 8, 8:45 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notreplytome.cmm>
wrote:
>
> DJGPP is not being used to code DOS, e.g., FreeDOS or DR-DOS.
It can't compile the kernels because they are 16-bit (e.g. compact
model for FreeDOS, they use OpenWatcom). GNU never cared for 16-bit
and none of the other efforts ever amounted to anything. (BCC/Dev86
for ELKS only supports tiny and small. Not sure what ACK 16-bit can
target, probably similar.)
> It was being used to code FreeDOS-32, but that's been stalled for 6 years now.
Not dead, just very slow. A developer left, license issues, leanfs*
file release a year ago, but no new OS release since 2005. Nice hack,
fairly incomplete, has its own DPMI server, didn't run a lot of stuff,
0.0.6 only mentioned (and unreleased) on mailing list. It's a cool
hack but not a solution.
> AFAIK, it's not being used to code new OSes, or any major applications.
Several projects still use (or at least target) it with official
binary builds: NASM, YASM, UPX, RAINE, Hammer of Thyrion, Regina,
Agena, dos2unix, 4tH, Atari800, FreeBASIC (libc, tools), FreePascal
(tools), Mined, BEYE, VILE, VIM, etc.
And that's only official stuff, there's plenty more you can build
yourself. But yeah, not many people intentionally target it anymore.
> DJGPP hasn't progressed in the 6 or 7 years that I've been reading here.
CVS had some updates, just no releases. As Charles mentioned, nobody
in charge wanted it badly enough. The last CVS snapshot on Martin's
page is from last June (though I never tried rebuilding it).
BTW, Charles was extremely nice enough to release CWSDPMI r7. And Eli
did work on Emacs and GDB. And DJ still hosts everything and updates
the mini-FAQ. Juan has ported a lot of stuff. And Andris keeps
bringing us newer and newer GCCs. So it's not like nothing gets done.
> The handful of serious users of DJGPP stopped posting 3 to 4 years ago. I'd
> guess that most moved on. For all practical purposes, DJGPP is dead.
More like "good enough for most people" with no huge amount of
volunteers to update further. Face it, without decent support via
NTVDM, a lot of people aren't going to use it (sad but true).
> That's still in Beta. 7 years of Beta... No demand? It has yet to find
> another OS to give it purpose, or something to give it life, like a DOS
> shell for Windows 7.
There have been several hacks that deal with hybrid targets, e.g. dual
DOS / Win32 or even DOS / ELF. I'm sure you're aware of most of them.
The problem is that most are abandoned, buggy, or incomplete.
Martin Str|mberg
> in charge wanted it badly enough. The last CVS snapshot on Martin's
> page is from last June (though I never tried rebuilding it).
Ooops! The server that had the crontab job crashed and I forgot to
enter it again on the "new" box. It's updated now and we'll see if
the cronjab works tomorrow.
--
MartinS