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Sinan

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Jul 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/30/99
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Good day Klaus.

-> Just out of curiosity: what would seem to be an appropriate length of
-> time for testing a complex piece of software like 4DOS in your eyes?

I may take 2 months if I tried to spend most free time. I'm working in
office 12 hours a day/ 6 days a week, in my office I have no computer.
In my free time I am spending most time maintaining my BBS and doing
mail. My family getting only about an hour. I feel guility all time -:)

Thanks.

Best Regards.
Jamil Sinan -SysOp - Darin Communication BBS *+(9663)899-4681*
E-mail :da...@sahara.com.sa
Fido :sinan@2:543/200

Jonathan de Boyne Pollard

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Jul 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM7/30/99
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KM> If you are serious about trying 4DOS, the 21 day trial period is no
KM> hindrance. The only thing you will experience is a growing delay at
KM> boot time after that period.

Actually, with the latest releases of JP Software's products that isn't true any more. What you are describing above is how things *used* to be.

If you read the file TRIAL.TXT that is supplied with the more recent shareware releases, you will notice that JP Software has had a very quiet, but significant, change of policy, in that the unregistered versions now become what is colloquially known as "drop-dead-ware" after the 21 day evaluation period is over, rather than, as was the case before, simply using progressively more annoying nag messages. Depending from the product and how it is invoked, either it will nag the user every time that a command is executed or it will allow a limited number of interactive commands to be executed and then simply exit.

> JdeBP <

peter karlsson

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Aug 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/4/99
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JdBP> either it will nag the user every time that a command is executed
JdBP> or it will allow a limited number of interactive commands to be
JdBP> executed and then simply exit.

*sigh*

Stupid.

\\//
peter

Klaus Meinhard

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Aug 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/4/99
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Hallo Jonathan,

KM>> If you are serious about trying 4DOS, the 21 day trial period is no

KM>> hindrance. The only thing you will experience is a growing delay at boot
KM>> time after that period.

JDBP> Actually, with the latest releases of JP Software's products that isn't
JDBP> true any more. What you are describing above is how things *used* to
JDBP> be.

Yes, that's true. You could, however, copy the files from the diskette or download-file again, at least in the case of 4DOS.

My main concern in this case was to gently lead the original poster to the idea that 21 days of _actual use_ should be enough time for testing. Otherwise there might be a new version out before he's finished testing the old one <g>.

Viele Gruesse, best regards,

*Klaus Meinhard*

Ostrhauderfehn, 04.08.99, 8:24:02

peter.k...@xspam.p12345.f221.n206.z2.fidonet.org

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Aug 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/4/99
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*sigh*

Stupid.

\\//
peter

---
* Origin: /var/tmp · Stockholm, Sweden (2:206/221.12345)

Klaus.M...@xspam.p1005.f236.n2449.z2.fidonet.org

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Aug 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/4/99
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Hallo Jonathan,

Viele Gruesse, best regards,

*Klaus Meinhard*

--- WP/95 Rel 1.6CMA (202.0) Reg.
* Origin: We all live in a yellow subroutine. (2:2449/236.1005)

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/8/99
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Jonathan De Boyne Pollard wrote in a message to Klaus Meinhard:

JDBP> If you read the file TRIAL.TXT that is supplied with the
JDBP> more recent shareware releases, you will notice that JP
JDBP> Software has had a very quiet, but significant, change of
JDBP> policy, in that the unregistered versions now become what is
JDBP> colloquially known as "drop-dead-ware" after the 21 day
JDBP> evaluation period is over, rather than, as was the case

Would you happen to know what versions implimented this change? I don't carry
drop-dead ware on my system, nor do I recommend it to anyone. This is a big
disappointment to me, although I don't particularly blame JP Software, they've
been good to the shareware community for about a decade, so my hats off to
them. I guess I'm at my last version of 4OS2/4DOS.

I recently recommended it to a friend just getting into computing, I guess his
install has already died. Bummer. I'll have to dig up an older version for
him I guess.

Jack
--- timEd/2-B11
* Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171)

Martin & Beth Myers

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Aug 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/10/99
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Well if you register/buy the software you don't have to worry about what version
does what, delays, things not working properly, etc.

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org wrote:

--
邢 唷��

Jonathan.de....@xspam.p3.f4.n440.z2.fidonet.org

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Aug 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/11/99
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JDBP>> If you read the file TRIAL.TXT that is supplied with the
JDBP>> more recent shareware releases, you will notice that JP
JDBP>> Software has had a very quiet, but significant, change of
JDBP>> policy, in that the unregistered versions now become what is
JDBP>> colloquially known as "drop-dead-ware" after the 21 day
JDBP>> evaluation period is over, rather than, as was the case

JS> Would you happen to know what versions implimented this change?

I don't know when the actual change was implemented. All that I can tell you
is when TRIAL.TXT first appeared.

The shareware archives for 4DOS 6.02, 4OS2 3.02, TCOS2 2.02, TCW32 2.02, and
TCW16 2.02 all have the TRIAL.TXT file.

The shareware archives for 4DOS 6.01, 4OS2 3.01, TCOS2 2.01, TCW32 2.01, and
TCW16 2.01 all do not.

JS> I don't carry drop-dead ware on my system, nor do I recommend it to
JS> anyone. This is a big disappointment to me, although I don't
JS> particularly blame JP Software, they've been good to the shareware
JS> community for about a decade, so my hats off to them. I guess I'm at
JS> my last version of 4OS2/4DOS.

You are bearing in mind that this only affects unregistered copies ? It won't
affect us registered users.

» JdeBP «

--- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
* Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:440/4.3)

Glenn A. Bowes

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Aug 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/11/99
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Jonathan.de....@xspam.p3.f4.n440.z2.fidonet.org wrote:

> JDBP>> If you read the file TRIAL.TXT that is supplied with the
> JDBP>> more recent shareware releases, you will notice that JP
> JDBP>> Software has had a very quiet, but significant, change of
> JDBP>> policy, in that the unregistered versions now become what is
> JDBP>> colloquially known as "drop-dead-ware" after the 21 day
> JDBP>> evaluation period is over, rather than, as was the case
>
> JS> Would you happen to know what versions implimented this change?
>
> I don't know when the actual change was implemented. All that I can tell you
> is when TRIAL.TXT first appeared.
>
> The shareware archives for 4DOS 6.02, 4OS2 3.02, TCOS2 2.02, TCW32 2.02, and
> TCW16 2.02 all have the TRIAL.TXT file.
>
> The shareware archives for 4DOS 6.01, 4OS2 3.01, TCOS2 2.01, TCW32 2.01, and
> TCW16 2.01 all do not.
>
> JS> I don't carry drop-dead ware on my system, nor do I recommend it to
> JS> anyone. This is a big disappointment to me, although I don't
> JS> particularly blame JP Software, they've been good to the shareware
> JS> community for about a decade, so my hats off to them. I guess I'm at
> JS> my last version of 4OS2/4DOS.
>

You would drop 4OS2/4DOS because you are too cheap to pay for it?


--
Glenn A. Bowes
gbo...@pacbell.net


peter karlsson

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Aug 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/12/99
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Glenn A. Bowes:

>You would drop 4OS2/4DOS because you are too cheap to pay for it?

Personally, I never use shareware that is crippled or "drops dead" after a
while. Software that don't, and I like to use, I pay for. But software that
is crippled I consider demo software, and don't register, and software that
drops dead, I don't try anyway.


But then again, I prefer to use GNU GPL'ed or other free software (and that
is the license I use for software I release myself).

--
\\//
peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/12/99
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Jonathan De Boyne Pollard wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

JS> I don't carry drop-dead ware on my system, nor do I recommend it to
JS> anyone. This is a big disappointment to me, although I don't
JS> particularly blame JP Software, they've been good to the shareware
JS> community for about a decade, so my hats off to them. I guess I'm at
JS> my last version of 4OS2/4DOS.

JDBP> You are bearing in mind that this only affects unregistered
JDBP> copies ? It won't affect us registered users.

I understand that, thats why I didn't realize this product began this practice.

I personally will continue to use the product I paid for several times.

I carry and recommend shareware and freeware because it fits with _my_ concept
of the hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all, it is
basically commercial, or, not much different than software designed to sell in
retail stores. I've always felt a product must decide to go retail and pay for
commercials and distribution, or, go shareware and get free commercials and
distribution. Drop dead ware tries to get the best of both worlds, and I don't
support that idea. Won't effect JP Software much, as few people D/L from FIDO
anymore, it is mainly a echo mail distribution system. The Internet, which is
lousy for echo mail/newsgroups, is where files are obtained these days. They
can carry all the retail stuff they want, it is a commercial network, not a
hobbiest network.

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/12/99
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Martin & Beth Myers wrote in a message to All:

M&BM> From: Martin & Beth Myers <smbm...@earthlink.net>

M&BM> Well if you register/buy the software you don't have to
M&BM> worry about what version does what, delays, things not working
M&BM> properly, etc.

If you support FIDONET, and the shareware concept, you have to decide if
drop-dead ware is in the spirit of things. I, and many of us say it isn't, so
we don't carry (distribute free) or provide free advertisement to software that
actually belongs on the retail store shelves. Considering I am a registered
user several times over, I don't think your statement carries any weight.

Since the Internet has gone commercial, you wouldn't understand the concepts
unless you've enjoyed the hobby of computing via a hobbiest network, built on
these very concepts. As a matter of fact, there is a hell of a lot that people
and ISP's on the Internet have no clue about.

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/12/99
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Glenn A. Bowes wrote in a message to Jonathan.De....@Xspam.P3.:

> JS> I don't carry drop-dead ware on my system, nor do I recommend it to
> JS> anyone. This is a big disappointment to me, although I don't
> JS> particularly blame JP Software, they've been good to the shareware
> JS> community for about a decade, so my hats off to them. I guess I'm at
> JS> my last version of 4OS2/4DOS.

GAB> You would drop 4OS2/4DOS because you are too cheap to pay
GAB> for it?

Why would you send this message to Jonathan? I'm the one that made the
statement, and more over, exactly what part of my message didn't you
understand, and where did you remotely get the idea I didn't pay for 4DOS/4OS2?
As a matter of fact, I paid for ALL the current implimentations of 4DOS, even
though I don't use any other than 4OS2 and 4DOS. Perhaps you don't understand
the concepts of shareware and freeware that made FIDONET a much better place to
hang out than the commercial internet?

Stan Brown

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org
(Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org) wrote in
comp.os.msdos.4dos:

>hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all

Are there three grades of Fidonet networks, one fairly hobby, one even
hobbier, and the third the hobbiest of all?

But seriously, I can understand the impulse for time-limited shareware,
even though I prefer not to operate that way. My own shareware is fully
functional and not time limited in any way: registration is strictly
honor system. If I were trying to make a living off of shareware I might
have to rethink that stance.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/
I don't need e-mail copies of posted follow-ups, but if you send
them PLEASE identify them as such.
My reply address is correct as is. The courtesy of providing a correct
reply address is more important to me than time spent deleting spam.

peter karlsson

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Aug 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/14/99
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Stan Brown:

>My own shareware is fully functional and not time limited in any way:
>registration is strictly honor system.

That was what I used when I released software as shareware as well. It
didn't work, so now I license all my code under the GNU GPL instead... :-)

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/17/99
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Stan Brown wrote in a message to Jack....@Xspam.P0.F171.N129.Z1.Fi:

SB> Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org
SB> (Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org) wrote in
SB> comp.os.msdos.4dos:


>hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all

SB> Are there three grades of Fidonet networks, one fairly
SB> hobby, one even hobbier, and the third the hobbiest of all?

You lost me completly on this one?

SB> But seriously, I can understand the impulse for time-limited
SB> shareware, even though I prefer not to operate that way.

I fully understand the "impulse" for drop dead ware. FIDONET however is a non
commercial network of hobbiest, not a medium for commercial software developers
to distribute and advertise there products. Most FIDO sysops will delete
drop-dead ware from there file lists. Drop-dead ware or time limited demo's
are an effort by the developers to distribute and advertise their product free,
on the hobbiest network that does not support commercial ventures. The spirit
of FIDONET is sharing, including sharing software, thus, freeware and even
shareware is encouraged, but time limited stuff is discouraged. That doesn't
mean a vendor is bad or the software is bad, it just means FIDO discourages
using it's channels as a distribution network for this stuff. Rex Conn knows
this, and is why 4DOS has been distributed as a MODEL of how shareware is
expected to operate on FIDO. Times change, nothing against Rex or his
products, just that they no longer fit the FIDO paridigm.

SB> My own shareware is fully functional and not time limited in
SB> any way: registration is strictly honor system. If I were
SB> trying to make a living off of shareware I might have to
SB> rethink that stance.

Of course. Not many make a living from shareware, precious few. Some graduate
from shareware to commercial software, I guess it's most developers goals. All
shareware that is not time limited is on the "honor system", and even if it is
excellent software, and reasonably priced, a large number of people will just
use it, and never register it. How much this bothers you is dependant on you
and your objectives.

Stan Brown

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Aug 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/18/99
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>Stan Brown wrote in a message to Jack....@Xspam.P0.F171.N129.Z1.Fi:
>
> SB> Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org
> SB> (Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org) wrote in
> SB> comp.os.msdos.4dos:
>>hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all
>
> SB> Are there three grades of Fidonet networks, one fairly
> SB> hobby, one even hobbier, and the third the hobbiest of all?
>
>You lost me completly on this one?

You wrote "hobbiest" (the superlative of a non-existent adjective: hobby,
hobbier, hobbiest) where you meant to write "hobbyist" (someone who
pursues a hobby). It tickled my funny bone.

It also reminded me of the very old joke, "Vice President Spiro Agnew
returned from his tour of Africa and reported that, of the leaders he
met, one was Haile Selassie, two or three were fairly selassie, and the
rest weren't selassie at all." (Haile Selassie was emperor of Ethiopia at
the time.)

I'd have emailed you about it, but your reply-to address doesn't work.

Jonathan.de....@xspam.p3.f609.n257.z2.fidonet.org

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Aug 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/19/99
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JS>> hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all

SB> Are there three grades of Fidonet networks, one fairly
SB> hobby, one even hobbier, and the third the hobbiest of all?

JS> You lost me completly on this one?

He's subtly pointing out that you have mis-spelled the word "hobbyist".

"Hobby" isn't an adjective; but if it were, its three degrees of comparison
would be "hobby" (positive), "hobbier" (comparative), and "hobbiest"
(superlative), by analogy to words such as "easy".

» JdeBP «

--- FleetStreet 1.22 NR
* Origin: JdeBP's point, using Squish <yuk!> (2:257/609.3)

Jack....@xspam.p0.f171.n129.z1.fidonet.org

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Aug 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM8/24/99
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Jonathan De Boyne Pollard wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

JS>> hobbiest Fidonet network. Drop-dead ware doesn't fit in at all

SB> Are there three grades of Fidonet networks, one fairly
SB> hobby, one even hobbier, and the third the hobbiest of all?

JS> You lost me completly on this one?

JDBP> He's subtly pointing out that you have mis-spelled the word
JDBP> "hobbyist".

JDBP> "Hobby" isn't an adjective; but if it were, its three
JDBP> degrees of comparison would be "hobby" (positive), "hobbier"
JDBP> (comparative), and "hobbiest" (superlative), by analogy to
JDBP> words such as "easy".

Thank god he has people like me around, elst he would be stuck in the
un-evolving language of "ugh" "ugh" and "ugh"

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