Today's PS/2 mice supported by wfw / win3.1x?

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Markus R. Ke?ler

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Oct 14, 2003, 8:19:06 AM10/14/03
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Hi there,

my mother's wfw3.11 box here has an original m$ "PS/2 and Serial Ergo"
mouse (which wasn't cheap at all), but it seems now to be necessary to
replace one or both mouse buttons.

I just took my soldering station and swapped the left and the right
button switch because the left one was in worse condition than the
right one, but this doesn't solve the problem.
Unfortunately those serial mice are rare today and far from beeing as
cheap as those PS/2 mice you get everywhere.

Well, the other day I got a pentium board with PS/2 connector for
little money, so I could throw out the 486/100 board but the question
bothers me, if in the meantime there could have been done some
modifications to the PS/2 protocol so that I cannot use today's PS/2
(m$) mice?!

So I'd like to know whether anyone has experience with those new PS/2
version mice, esp. those from m$ which are sold nowadays.
Do they still work with wfw / win3.1x and the standard mouse driver
from m$?
Or do I have to expect big trouble in the future?

Any hints or warnings highly appreciated.

Best regards,

Markus

Artur Yelchishchev

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Oct 14, 2003, 8:30:44 AM10/14/03
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On 14 Oct 2003 05:19:06 -0700, dimk...@uni.de (Markus R.
Ke?ler) wrote:

-snip-


>So I'd like to know whether anyone has experience with those new PS/2
>version mice, esp. those from m$ which are sold nowadays.
>Do they still work with wfw / win3.1x and the standard mouse driver
>from m$?

Hi Markus,

Yes, fortunately PS/2 is still the standard thing, and all the
modern mice I've ever seen are 'Win3.1x-compatible", including
ones with USB-to-PS/2 adaptors.

The only problem is a use of the additional mouse features -
wheels & side buttons. Without appropriate Win3.1x driver, you
won't be able to access them, but the basic functions will work.

BTW my personal recommendation is, to get some A4Tech pointing
device, because of Win3.1x drivers available.

HTH,
Artur

tls...@concentric.net

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Oct 14, 2003, 11:44:16 PM10/14/03
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On 14 Oct 2003 05:19:06 -0700, dimk...@uni.de (Markus R. Ke?ler)
took a very strange color crayon and scribbled:

>So I'd like to know whether anyone has experience with those new PS/2
>version mice, esp. those from m$ which are sold nowadays.
>Do they still work with wfw / win3.1x and the standard mouse driver
>from m$?
>Or do I have to expect big trouble in the future?

I've never had any trouble with mice with Windows 3.x wrt the type of
connectors, although I suppose if I tried USB mouse, that would
probably pose a problem, depending on whether it's a hardware-based or
software-based protocol. But PS/2 mice aren't a problem with Win3.x.


--
Therese Shellabarger / The Roving Reporter - Civis Mundi
tls...@concentric.net / http://www.concentric.net/~tlshell

Artur Yelchishchev

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Oct 15, 2003, 4:06:51 AM10/15/03
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On 15 Oct 2003 03:44:16 GMT, tls...@concentric.net wrote:

>I suppose if I tried USB mouse, that would
>probably pose a problem, depending on whether it's a hardware-based or
>software-based protocol.

What are you talking about?

Artur

Markus R. Keßler

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Oct 16, 2003, 2:26:01 PM10/16/03
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Hi Artur!

Artur Yelchishchev <ris...@hot.ee> wrote:

>Yes, fortunately PS/2 is still the standard thing, and all the
>modern mice I've ever seen are 'Win3.1x-compatible", including
>ones with USB-to-PS/2 adaptors.

Sounds promising! ...Well, unfortunately I'll have to replace the
mainboard anyway because this one now also makes trouble "finding" the
keyboard, like the board that was formerly in this box. I also had to
replace it due to this kind of malfunction. Maybe this is a problem
typically related to the 486 family?! Who knows?

B.t.w. Any experiences about adapting a PS/2 keyboard to a mainboard
with DIN keyboard plug? There are PS/2 to DIN adaptors out, but I'm
not sure whether this really works.

>The only problem is a use of the additional mouse features -
>wheels & side buttons. Without appropriate Win3.1x driver, you
>won't be able to access them, but the basic functions will work.

>BTW my personal recommendation is, to get some A4Tech pointing
>device, because of Win3.1x drivers available.

Yes, I remembers your posting about that item some months ago.
You said that the driver translates "scroll wheel" up and down windows
events to page up and down windows events. Please correct me if I'm
wrong.
Well, any recommendations about A4Tech mice type and model which are
ergonomically designed for easy and convenient handling, precise
positionning and needed for "fast double click"?

Best regards,

Markus

Stephan Grossklass

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Oct 16, 2003, 4:10:48 PM10/16/03
to
"Markus R. Keßler" schrieb:

>
> Hi Artur!
>
> Artur Yelchishchev <ris...@hot.ee> wrote:
>
> >Yes, fortunately PS/2 is still the standard thing, and all the
> >modern mice I've ever seen are 'Win3.1x-compatible", including
> >ones with USB-to-PS/2 adaptors.
>
> Sounds promising! ...Well, unfortunately I'll have to replace the
> mainboard anyway because this one now also makes trouble "finding" the
> keyboard, like the board that was formerly in this box. I also had to
> replace it due to this kind of malfunction. Maybe this is a problem
> typically related to the 486 family?! Who knows?

Maybe a short somewhere, or PSU troubles?

> B.t.w. Any experiences about adapting a PS/2 keyboard to a mainboard
> with DIN keyboard plug? There are PS/2 to DIN adaptors out, but I'm
> not sure whether this really works.

Exactly same protocol, the only difference is the connector.

> Well, any recommendations about A4Tech mice type and model which are
> ergonomically designed for easy and convenient handling, precise
> positionning and needed for "fast double click"?

You may have to look on the A4Tech page and then compare the mice to
what is offered locally (they may be sold under other names as well).
Avoid mice with fancy silver paint, that wears off --> ugly! Myself, I'm
using a simple optical Logi (M-BJ69), with A4Tech drivers btw (but not
under Win 3.1x).

Stephan
--
Home: http://stephan.win31.de/ | Webm.: http://www.i24.com/
PC#6: i440LX, 2xCel300A, 448 MB, 18 GB, ATI AGP 32 MB, 110W
This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer :)
Reply to newsgroup only. | See home page for working e-mail address.

Artur Yelchishchev

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Oct 18, 2003, 11:47:47 AM10/18/03
to
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:26:01 GMT, di...@my-deja.com (Markus R.
Keßler) wrote:

>Hi Artur!

Hi Markus,

>B.t.w. Any experiences about adapting a PS/2 keyboard to a mainboard
>with DIN keyboard plug? There are PS/2 to DIN adaptors out, but I'm
>not sure whether this really works.

As Stephan already said, they're absolutely identical.

>>BTW my personal recommendation is, to get some A4Tech pointing
>>device, because of Win3.1x drivers available.
>
>Yes, I remembers your posting about that item some months ago.
>You said that the driver translates "scroll wheel" up and down windows
>events to page up and down windows events. Please correct me if I'm
>wrong.

Not to 'page up & page down', but to normal scrolling. In other
words, the wheels are working exactly the same way as in Win9x
environment.

>Well, any recommendations about A4Tech mice type and model which are
>ergonomically designed for easy and convenient handling, precise
>positionning and needed for "fast double click"?

My favorite one is an "Optical GreatEye WheelMouse" model WOP-35
(http://www.a4tech.com/en/product2.asp?CID=1&SCID=8&MNO=WOP-35);
it's quite convenient for me. It comes with PS/2-to-COM adaptor,
so you can use it even on really old machines.

Sincerely,
Artur

Steve

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Oct 19, 2003, 11:06:02 AM10/19/03
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On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:47:47 +0300, Artur Yelchishchev typed:

>My favorite one is an "Optical GreatEye WheelMouse" model WOP-35
>(http://www.a4tech.com/en/product2.asp?CID=1&SCID=8&MNO=WOP-35);
>it's quite convenient for me. It comes with PS/2-to-COM adaptor,
>so you can use it even on really old machines.
>
I use the Genius NetScroll+ , works fine except:
For some reason, it won't work in MS IE 5.0 and
Outlook Express 5.0 - don't think they are
plugged for a scroller, works ok in everything
else.

I think I gave Aurthur and Gaby the 16bit driver
for this thing, probably on Gaby's Web site.
http://www.win31.de

I also think I gave them the URL for a whole
load of drivers including a wireless one. Can't
remember now, too long ago.

-----

If the mouse and K/B ports on a mainboard both
stop working, then the +5v supply to them is gone.
It's usually protected by a separate little fuse on
the board. Hard to find it - doesn't look like a fuse,
hard to fix it - damn surface mount. Might be marked
F-something.

Steve

--
SSS,
Steve / Strathclyde / Scotland.
------------------------------

Steve

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Oct 19, 2003, 12:19:37 PM10/19/03
to
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:06:02 +0100, Steve typed:
Whoops, sorry Aurthur, replied to the wrong post.
Didn't know we were cross-posting.
I remember where we were talking about mouse drivers,
it was the Calmira mail list, not a newsgroup so
the stuff I talked about is there.
Is the mail list still in use - do we use it or here?

Now I'm talking to myself..

Artur Yelchishchev

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Oct 20, 2003, 5:20:21 AM10/20/03
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:19:37 +0100, Steve
<s...@address.is.INVALID> wrote:

>Whoops, sorry Aurthur, replied to the wrong post.

No problem!

>Didn't know we were cross-posting.
>I remember where we were talking about mouse drivers,
>it was the Calmira mail list, not a newsgroup so
>the stuff I talked about is there.
>Is the mail list still in use - do we use it or here?

Can't say - I've never participated in the Calmira's mailing
list.

>Now I'm talking to myself..

Ok! :-)

Cheers,
Artur

Steven V.A.

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Oct 20, 2003, 11:54:03 AM10/20/03
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di...@my-deja.com (Markus R. Keßler) wrote:

>B.t.w. Any experiences about adapting a PS/2 keyboard to a mainboard
>with DIN keyboard plug? There are PS/2 to DIN adaptors out, but I'm
>not sure whether this really works.

I am using one, right now! ;)

Greetz,
Steven
---
A White Sailboat...Raging Waters...A Golden Inca Temple...
And a Great Earthquake...A Giant Condor That Wheels In The Sky...
The Mysterious Cities of Gold: // http://www.themysteriouscitiesofgold.com //

EZoto

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Oct 20, 2003, 7:30:33 PM10/20/03
to

I remember when Comp USA had scroll mice for Win 3.1. Drivers and
all. I bought 2 of them. I wish I had bought more.

EZoto

Jay T. Blocksom

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Oct 27, 2003, 9:22:15 AM10/27/03
to
[f'ups set to <comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win3x>, exclusively]

On 14 Oct 2003 05:19:06 -0700, in <comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win3x>,


dimk...@uni.de (Markus R. Ke?ler) wrote:
>

[snip]

> Unfortunately those serial mice are rare today and far from beeing as
> cheap as those PS/2 mice you get everywhere.
>

[snip]

Not sure where you've (not) been looking, but serial-compatible mice (most
of them in the form of a "PS/2" mouse supplied with a small DIN/DB-9
adapter) are still widely available. Here's a couple of examples:

<http://www.cablesnmor.com/serial-mouse.html>
<http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=106+0427>

At US$5.00-6.95, I can't exactly call these "expensive" (tho' how well-made
they may be, given their cost, is another question).

For LOTS more choices, see:

<http://castle.pricewatch.com/search/searchmc.idq?cr=serial&qc=%22SERIAL%22*%20AND%20%40totalcost%3E0%20AND%20%40minorder=1+AND+%40ctd+311&i=311&ct=Computer&c=Mice&mi=N&m=N&ne=15890&l=15844>

Last one I bought was a Kensiko (re-branded A4 Tech) "Dual Scrolling" model
from my local "Staples" office-supply house. I think it was about $15-20.
It came with drivers diskette to enable the "fancy" features (scroll wheels,
side button) under various OSes, including Win3.x.

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet01[at]appropriate-tech.net


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

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Jay T. Blocksom

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Oct 27, 2003, 9:22:16 AM10/27/03
to
[f'ups set to <comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win3x>, exclusively]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:26:01 GMT, in <comp.os.ms-windows.setup.win3x>,


di...@my-deja.com (Markus R. Keßler) wrote:
>

[snip]


>
> B.t.w. Any experiences about adapting a PS/2 keyboard to a mainboard
> with DIN keyboard plug? There are PS/2 to DIN adaptors out, but I'm
> not sure whether this really works.
>

[snip]

I use them all the time, as I'm a big fan of the old "boat anchor" IBM Model
M keyboards (which were manufactured in great quantity for sale with the
first-generation PS/2 systems) -- I "stocked up" on them when I had the
chance a few years ago, and am currently on my third (the first one met an
untimely demise during a cleaning session, when I mangled one of the
keysprings beyond repair; the second is currently "in limbo", having been
*soaked* with coffee due to a recent "incident" with my cat -- I've torn it
down and am cleaning/drying all the parts, but I'm still not sure if I can
revive it or not).

In any event, yes, the adapters work fine on every "AT-compatible" system
I've ever tried them on.

> >BTW my personal recommendation is, to get some A4Tech pointing
> >device, because of Win3.1x drivers available.
>
> Yes, I remembers your posting about that item some months ago.
> You said that the driver translates "scroll wheel" up and down windows
> events to page up and down windows events. Please correct me if I'm
> wrong.

[snip]

The end-effect depends in part on the application. I've not yet bothered to
install the Kensiko/A4 drivers under WfWG (the KISS principle in action, so
to speak); but I did go ahead and try them out under Win9x, and I imagine
the behavior is essentially similar: *Most* apps treat the wheels as if
you've grabbed (i.e., click & drag) the "slider" portion of the
corresponding scroll bar in the active (has focus) window. Others (ACDSee
comes to mind) act as if you've hit the "Page Up" or "Page Down" keys.
Generally, I prefer the former behavior, which is at least sometimes
convenient, if not exactly "necessary". I've yet to find a useful purpose
for the side button. <~>

Artur Yelchishchev

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Oct 29, 2003, 8:56:08 AM10/29/03
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:22:16 -0500, Jay T. Blocksom
<not.deliver...@appropriate-tech.net> wrote:

> I've yet to find a useful purpose
>for the side button. <~>

As I'm constantly working with texts, I've found that most
convenient function for the side buttons is 'copy' and 'past';
after several months of use, I just can't live w/o that function
anymore! :-)

WBR,
Artur

??

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Dec 16, 2003, 1:06:26 AM12/16/03
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thanks
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