Windows 97
Heywood Jablowme
The FAT32 from OSR2 sounds neat - I'm thinking of buying a 3 gig
hard drive and the samller clusters would be great. But I'm too
chicken to try it right now. I had too much trouble getting Win95
up and running in the first place.
Anyway, what's the deal on the next release of Windows (Windows 97?).
I seem to remember reading somewhere that it would be released in
late 96.
Of course, we all know that's not gonna happen, so..............
how late is it gonna be? Will we still be using Windows "95" in
late "97"?
Grant King
According to MS, Memphis (code name for what people are calling Win 97/98)
is scheduled to enter beta testing in early '97 (which theoretically could
be anywhere in winter/spring '97 and still be called "early '97") with
anticipated release date of mid-to-late '97. Probably Memphis (and
Cairo/NT 5.0) will not enter beta testing until Nashville/IE 4.0 ships,
although that is just a guess.
--
Grant King
Beta tester for Nashville/MSIE 4.0; Member, Team Gates
http://www.mindspring.com/~ggking3
For Windows 95/NT news check
http://www.mindspring.com/~ggking3/pages/windmill.htm
Heywood Jablowme <hap...@apk.net> wrote in article
<3257EE...@apk.net>...
uno
Heywood Jablowme wrote:
>
> The FAT32 from OSR2 sounds neat - I'm thinking of buying a 3 gig
> hard drive and the samller clusters would be great. But I'm too
> chicken to try it right now. I had too much trouble getting Win95
> up and running in the first place.
Hi,
I am taking this opportunity to ask for some help.
I am STILL having trouble with Win95.
I ahve a Reveal sound card, and from what I've been reading, they have
gone out of businness. Apparently they had an upgrade out for the 32
bit of Win 95, but even their ftp site is now closed.
What I can't get to work is Win95 to play wav files. when I load the
drivers off the Win95 cd, when it reboots, win95 tells me there is a
conflict. Running the troubleshooter, turns out that my video display
driver uses DMA channel 10, and Win95's sound driver is programmed for
that as well. When I try to change the settings, the program tell me I
am not allowed to do so.
I guess I should just go and buy another sound card, but this one is
just over 1 year old, and works ok on other files such as MID, also
works okay in dos.
I anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.
Thanks!!
Harri Pesonen
Heywood Jablowme wrote:
>
> The FAT32 from OSR2 sounds neat - I'm thinking of buying a 3 gig
> hard drive and the samller clusters would be great.
Yes, they are smaller but not small enough. I don't understand why
FAT32 does not give 512 byte clusters! If they are going to get rid of
FAT, they should do it properly. Think of it: If I have a 1 byte file
in FAT32, I am still wasting 4095 bytes!!!
--
Harri Pesonen fue...@sci.fi http://www.sci.fi/~fuerte/
You should not underestimate the power of thickness - Kaoru Iwamoto
Raymond Chen
On Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:10:16 +0300, Harri Pesonen <fue...@sci.fi>
wrote:
>Yes, they are smaller but not small enough. I don't understand why
>FAT32 does not give 512 byte clusters!
Do the math. If a cluster was 512 bytes, then a 2GB drive would
have 4 million clusters. At 32 bits per cluster, your FAT would
be 16MB in size. That's a really big FAT that needs to be loaded
into memory.
Also, smaller clusters result in greater fragmentation and slower
disk access.
--
(Note that my return address is intentionally invalid in order
to foil electronic mailing list generation software.
No soliciting.)
Rob
Has anyone heard any info about what improvements or new features will
be in Windows 97? i.e., what advantages over Win 95? And will it be
better to move up to Win 97 when available or Win NT? Thanks.
Michiel
Harri Pesonen wrote:
>
> Heywood Jablowme wrote:
> >
> > The FAT32 from OSR2 sounds neat - I'm thinking of buying a 3 gig
> > hard drive and the samller clusters would be great.
>
> FAT, they should do it properly. Think of it: If I have a 1 byte file
> in FAT32, I am still wasting 4095 bytes!!!
Microsoft should give up the whole FAT crap and use NTFS (or HPFS).
Faster and more reliable.
Peter Falver
Maybe they should just take a glance at some of the many great unix
filesystems, e.g. nfs (for networking), ext2, minix and all the others!
They don't have stupid problems with thousands of files in the same dir
and other things!
There must be a reason to why the developers of et2 and other fs's are
constantly laughing and making jokes about NTFS, HPFS, FAT, FAT32,
etc.!!!
Raymond Chen
On Sun, 03 Nov 1996 00:17:48 +0200, Harri Pesonen <fue...@sci.fi>
wrote:
>If the FAT32 is not totally compatible with
>FAT anyhow, why should it be like FAT at all?
Making it "like FAT" allowed FAT32 to fit into less than 2K of
conventional mode memory, because it could share all the code
with the old FAT. Conventional mode memory is very precious.
It would be really cool if somebody could write an NTFS driver in
2K of memory.
Harri Pesonen
Raymond Chen wrote:
>
> Making it "like FAT" allowed FAT32 to fit into less than 2K of
> conventional mode memory, because it could share all the code
> with the old FAT. Conventional mode memory is very precious.
Hmm... what if you gave us such a file system which only works in
Windows 95 and in Win95 DOS box? One could boot the system and Windows
95 with a FAT disk and use this new file system on all other
partitions. If I understand correctly, you can always make a .VDX or
something which does all the job in the DOS box and takes no
conventional mode memory.
> It would be really cool if somebody could write an NTFS driver in
> 2K of memory.
You should arrange a contest. You never know what these demo
programmers can do in such a memory. :-)
Raymond Chen
On Thu, 07 Nov 1996 23:44:43 +0200, Harri Pesonen <fue...@sci.fi>
wrote:
>Raymond Chen wrote:
>> Making it "like FAT" allowed FAT32 to fit into less than 2K of
>> conventional mode memory
>Windows 95 and in Win95 DOS box?
Yes, that could've been done, but it has its own problems.
1. You still have two partitions, C: and D:, and the whole point
of FAT32 is to solve the problem of people being forced to
partition their drives just to get the cluster size down.
2. How does an OEM decide how big to make C:?
Question 2 is a real problem because drive D: would be
unavailable in MS-DOS mode. So you decide, "Okay, I'll make C:
as small as possible". And then somebody gives you FIFA Soccer
(which runs only in MS-DOS mode) for Christmas. Now you're in
trouble: your tiny 2MB C: drive isn't big enough to install FIFA
soccer, and so you have to back up your entire hard drive,
repartition it, and restore it, and then install FIFA soccer onto
your new 30MB C: drive.
And then you get to repeat this repartitioning each time you find
that your C: partition needs to be made just a little bit bigger
for that other program that you need to run in MS-DOS mode...
b...@acsu.buffalo.edu
Raymond Chen wrote:
>
> your tiny 2MB C: drive isn't big enough to install FIFA
> soccer, and so you have to back up your entire hard drive,
> repartition it, and restore it, and then install FIFA soccer onto
> your new 30MB C: drive.
Um, well, you could just load up partition magic and make C a little
bigger. Takes only a few minutes and is quite painless.
Of course, it's sill recommended that you backup before messing with
your partitions, but if one does weekly backups I think that's
sufficient since partition magic's been quite bulletproof in my
experience.
The new version will even support manipulation of NTFS and fat32.
Cool. 8-)
-Ben
--
Team JAVA! http://www.teamjava.com "Imagination is more
"Don't marry a person you can live with, important than
marry someone you can't live without." knowledge."
Bye BYe BYle BYLe BYLee BYLEe BYLEE -Einstein
Raymond Chen
On Sat, 09 Nov 1996 10:42:17 -0500, b...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
>Um, well, you could just load up partition magic and make C a little
>bigger. Takes only a few minutes and is quite painless.
Painless to you. But think of the product support nightmare.
"Product support, can I help you?"
"Yeah, I just got FIFA Soccer for Christmas, but when I try to
install it, I get an out of disk space message. How do I make my
C: drive bigger?"
"Okay, well, first you need to run Partition Magic. Mind you,
you need to back up your system before doing this, because if it
goes wrong, you will lose all the information on your hard
drive."
"What? Installing a game can cause my computer to lose all its
information? I thought your guys were supposed to make computers
*easier* to use, not harder!"
(Remember: Most users are not technically inclined.)
Compare the FAT32 way: The user restarts the computer in MS-DOS
mode and installs the app. End of story. Happy user.
Michael A. Jar
Raymond Chen wrote:
(snip)
> (Remember: Most users are not technically inclined.)
>
> Compare the FAT32 way: The user restarts the computer in MS-DOS
> mode and installs the app. End of story. Happy user.
(snip)
Uh, would it be fair to say that a user who is not technically inclined
wouldn't have a partitioned hard disk in the first place. So your
suggested scenario is not valid?
Whatever the merits of FAT32, I agree with Microsoft (shudder), that it
is too dangerous to let into the hands of the great unwashed. The
potential liablilities that Microsoft may have would be too great.
Michael.
Raymond Chen
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:23:50 +0800, "Michael A. Jar"
<ma...@pc.jaring.my> wrote:
>> Compare the FAT32 way: The user restarts the computer in MS-DOS
>> mode and installs the app. End of story. Happy user.
>
>(snip)
>
>Uh, would it be fair to say that a user who is not technically inclined
>wouldn't have a partitioned hard disk in the first place.
As I recall, we were discussing the feasibility of having a small
FAT partition (to boot from) and a large NTFS partition
(accessible only in Windows 95 mode via 32-bit drivers).
Tristan Gulyas (Cyber Demon)
> As I recall, we were discussing the feasibility of having a small
> FAT partition (to boot from) and a large NTFS partition
> (accessible only in Windows 95 mode via 32-bit drivers).
Can Win95 access NTFS with 32bit VxD's?
Raymond Chen
On 12 Nov 1996 21:05:42 GMT, "Tristan Gulyas (Cyber Demon)"
In principle, somebody could write a 32-bit NTFS driver. I don't
know if anybody has actually done it, though.
--
(Note that my return address is intentionally invalid in order
to foil electronic mailing list generation software. Delete the
".---" to get my real address. No soliciting.)
Richard Berman
Raymond Chen wrote:
>
> On 12 Nov 1996 21:05:42 GMT, "Tristan Gulyas (Cyber Demon)"
> <Tris...@Melbpc.Org.AU> wrote:
> >Can Win95 access NTFS with 32bit VxD's?
>
> In principle, somebody could write a 32-bit NTFS driver. I don't
> know if anybody has actually done it, though.
Definitely -- in fact, there is a shareware TSR for DOS that does
exactly that -- ignoring ALL NT security in the process.
-rb
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Berman Vox: (213) 258-7525
Software Technology Service Fax: (213) 258-9483
3737 Division Street, Los Angeles, CA 90065
s...@crl.com <URL:http://www.crl.com/~sts/>
------------------------------------------------------------