Alpha version of WinNT
kohk...@iscs.nus.sg
edition, and my my, it was FAST ! Even after opening multiple screens, the
processor load was still in the 70s.... this when a 486dx/33 with 16 mb RAM
will scream to 100% with just 4 to 5 windows open...
Anyway, the question is, is the Alpha Version of WinNT finally released ? The
one i saw did not say anything about beta.. but i heard that Alpha version was
still not released. Also, how different is the WinNT on the Alpha, cos i read
in the brouchure that WinNT for alpha will run 64bit code (when available !)
but i thought that winNt is only 32bit....
please enlighten me, and i apologise if this is an FAQ.
cheers
Jerry
/---------------------------------------------------------------\
| Jerry Koh aka FLAT^^TOP Email Address: kohk...@iscs.nus.sg |
| MSWindows & GUS User, Games Fanatic, Battletech and SW Fan |
\---------------------------------------------------------------/
Suvro
;>Anyway, the question is, is the Alpha Version of WinNT finally released
;>one i saw did not say anything about beta.. but i heard that Alpha
version was
;>still not released. Also, how different is the WinNT on the Alpha, cos i
read
;>in the brouchure that WinNT for alpha will run 64bit code (when
available !)
;>but i thought that winNt is only 32bit....
In PC World, they said that MS was just _helping_ DEC write, rather than
themselves writing, the AXP version of NT. Thus if DEC wanted, they could
have written a 64 bit, rather than a 32 bit OS (Appropriate, imo, since
this is being written on a 64 bit platform, & from all accounts, NT seems
better suited on 64 bit chips like the Pentium, R4x00, Alpha, rather than
a 486.) This answers a question that I had put a few months back on
whether the MIPS & AXP versions were 32 or 64 bits. It seems that if MS
writes them, they are 32; if someone else (like DEC) writes it for a 64
bit RISC, it may be 64. Incidentally, is the Pentium optimised NT 32 or
64 bit (Note: I'm not talking about the addressing capability - I know
that the Pentium has a 32 bit address & 64 bit data bus - & that 4GB is
the maximum that a machine is likely to have (at least for quite a while)-
what with all the DRAM shortages.)
However, I'm pretty surprised to hear about NT/AXP being 64 bit, b'cos in
DEC's high profile ads in PC mag promoting their NT on Alpha, they claimed
that it is a _32_ bit system.
As for the performance, I still find it hard to believe that MIPS beats
Alpha on the NT benchmarks - except on the graphics dept, where SGI should
ensure that. I believe that MIPS > ALpha in the 32 bit operating mode,
but loses out in the 64 bit code dept.
;>please enlighten me, and i apologise if this is an FAQ.
So do I, for the following (somewhat related) question:
Is Intergraph's clipper a 32 bit or a 64 bit processor? If it is 64 bit,
is the NT version for it (that Intergraph alone is porting) a 32 bit or a
64 bit OS? And anyone knows how it stacks up against the others?
;>cheers
;>
;>Jerry
--
Suvro (sorry if this appears twice - it bounced once.)
_________________________________________________________________________
Seen in a Compudyne ad in PC Mag:
Our competitors leave you in the dark. We do it by design.
_________________________________________________________________________
Dean Collins
> Anyway, the question is, is the Alpha Version of WinNT finally released ?
Yes. I recieved my Alpha AXP Final Version of Windows NT just over a week ago.
(I haven't loaded it yet.)
The Alpha is no longer beta. :-)
Dean
--
________________________________________________________________________
Dean Collins :-q Systems Manager, The System Works, Redmond, WA
e-mail: de...@halcyon.com, dean%t...@uunet.UU.NET, or de...@cs.uidaho.edu
Ian Kemmish
>kohk...@iscs.nus.sg writes
>;>Anyway, the question is, is the Alpha Version of WinNT finally released
>? The
>;>one i saw did not say anything about beta.. but i heard that Alpha
>version was
>;>still not released. Also, how different is the WinNT on the Alpha, cos i
>read
>;>in the brouchure that WinNT for alpha will run 64bit code (when
>available !)
>;>but i thought that winNt is only 32bit....
>
>In PC World, they said that MS was just _helping_ DEC write, rather than
>themselves writing, the AXP version of NT. Thus if DEC wanted, they could
>have written a 64 bit, rather than a 32 bit OS (Appropriate, imo, since
>this is being written on a 64 bit platform, & from all accounts, NT seems
>better suited on 64 bit chips like the Pentium, R4x00, Alpha, rather than
>a 486.) This answers a question that I had put a few months back on
>whether the MIPS & AXP versions were 32 or 64 bits. It seems that if MS
>writes them, they are 32; if someone else (like DEC) writes it for a 64
>bit RISC, it may be 64. Incidentally, is the Pentium optimised NT 32 or
>64 bit (Note: I'm not talking about the addressing capability - I know
>that the Pentium has a 32 bit address & 64 bit data bus - & that 4GB is
>the maximum that a machine is likely to have (at least for quite a while)-
>what with all the DRAM shortages.)
Windows NT is, by dictat, a 32 bit Little-Endian OS. Addressing
either of these issues would involve producing a Windows NT+
system, which had yet more protected subsystems, including one
that looked like all you get today. 2Gb+2Gb (less holes carved
out in embarrassing places by the DLL stuff) is all you get.
But, the C compiler for AXP (MS front end + DEC GEM back end)
supports the __int64 type, which lets you port code that uses
32 bit pointers and 64 bit integers. Compiling my RIP software
for 64 vs. 32 bit operations made bugger all difference to the
performance. I would say that the current DEC NT machine is
effectively hobbled by slow memory. I shall try the same comparison
on a Kubota running OSF/1 in the near future, to see if this
is so, or if it's some more fundamental problem.
And yes, The DEC Alpha came out at around 80% of the performance
of an R4000 based SGI machine. Running my code, the time is
99.99% user time, not system time, not UI time, so I think this
is a fairly good indication of relative performance, even with
different OS's.
--
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Ian Kemmish 18 Durham Close, Biggleswade, Beds SG18 8HZ
i...@eeyore.dircon.co.uk Tel: +44 767 601 361
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
David Gallimore
>
>Just got to c and touch a dec Alpha PC running Windows NT Advanced server
>edition, and my my, it was FAST ! Even after opening multiple screens, the
>processor load was still in the 70s.... this when a 486dx/33 with 16 mb RAM
>will scream to 100% with just 4 to 5 windows open...
>
Great!, DEC makes good chips. Had much more memory did the Alpha have ?
>Anyway, the question is, is the Alpha Version of WinNT finally released ?
Received a cupon w/my Golden SDK Shipment 3-4 wks ago, and w/ my NTAS
upgrade a bit later. I have not seen my Alpha NT CDs yet.
>. Also, how different is the WinNT on the Alpha, cos i read
>in the brouchure that WinNT for alpha will run 64bit code (when available !)
>but i thought that winNt is only 32bit....
>please enlighten me, and i apologise if this is an FAQ.
The Dos window only emulates to 286. Don't think that would be
too much of a problem (?). More info on ftp.microsoft.com in KB directories.
Terry Sikes
>kohk...@iscs.nus.sg writes
>This answers a question that I had put a few months back on
>whether the MIPS & AXP versions were 32 or 64 bits.
All versions of NT are 32 bit.
>However, I'm pretty surprised to hear about NT/AXP being 64 bit, b'cos in
>DEC's high profile ads in PC mag promoting their NT on Alpha, they claimed
>that it is a _32_ bit system.
See above.
>As for the performance, I still find it hard to believe that MIPS beats
>Alpha on the NT benchmarks - except on the graphics dept, where SGI should
>ensure that. I believe that MIPS > ALpha in the 32 bit operating mode,
>but loses out in the 64 bit code dept.
The Alpha workstation (300) that currently runs NT is the lowest end
Alpha hardware. Dec introduced the 600 series recently, which for under
$20K provides over 110 Specmark92. This isn't the highest end Alpha, and
my impression right now is that the Alpha scales better than other
currently available RISC architectures. However, at the more-or-less PC
price point, MIPS is very competitive on price/performance (probably better
than Alpha).
On the NT workstation front, as mentioned above currently the 300 is the
only NT Alpha box. I have it on excellent authority that Dec is engineering
its next workstation line using PCI, and that there will be many more NT
capable boxes from Dec in the reasonably near future.
>Is Intergraph's clipper a 32 bit or a 64 bit processor? If it is 64 bit,
>is the NT version for it (that Intergraph alone is porting) a 32 bit or a
>64 bit OS? And anyone knows how it stacks up against the others?
I believe its 32 bit.