Displaying MS-Win apps on X-Windows

Vitana Corporation

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May 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/31/96

to

I am familiar with Hummingbird's Exceed line of products
and Starnet's X-Win line of products which allow you to
display X apps on a Windows system.

I am currently looking for something which will do the
exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
would likely be running on Windows NT).

Does anyone know of any have software which will do this?
If so, could I get some details? If not, then I would be
looking at implementing this. Do you know of any function
libraries which could simplify the task?

Please E-Mail responses as I cannot access the news groups
very often.

Thank you kindly,
Ron McKinnon

==================================================
Ron McKinnon E-Mail: rmc...@vitana.com
Vitana Corporation Tel : (613) 749-4445
26-5470 Canotek Rd. Fax : (613) 749-4087
Gloucester, Ontario
K1J 9H3

(GC 2.1) GE/S/CS/M/MU d-@>---- H+(++) s g+ p0@ au* a-
w+++ v+ C++$ UL/A/V/H/I/S/C+++$>++++ P+>+++ L+(++)
3 E--- N+ K W++$>--- M-- V- po--- Y+ t+ 5++ j++ R(-)
G'' tv b++ D++ B e-(*) u+++(**) h* f- r* n+ y?

James Huang

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Jun 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/2/96

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In article <4onede$i...@hermes.achilles.net>, vita...@achilles.net
(Vitana Corporation) wrote:

> I am familiar with Hummingbird's Exceed line of products
> and Starnet's X-Win line of products which allow you to
> display X apps on a Windows system.
>
> I am currently looking for something which will do the
> exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
> on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
> would likely be running on Windows NT).

WinDD from Tektronix
WinFrame from Citrix
+ a couple more I think.

Have set up WinDD before at my previous employer's site. Works OK for
access to MS apps on Unix workstations.

A 30-day eval is available from Tektronix. Try their web-site.

James

Jac Goudsmit

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Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96

to Vitana Corporation

On 31 May 1996, Vitana Corporation wrote:

>I am currently looking for something which will do the
>exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
>on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
>would likely be running on Windows NT).

A couple of months ago I got a free demo of such a program. It's called
WinDD (don't know what that stands for) and it's made by Tektronix. It
consists of a (modified?) Window NT server CD-ROM and a client program for
your particular configuration. The client program displays a Windows-NT
session on the X station and emulates the mouse and keyboard, but the
program actually works on the NT server. The demo is a complete version
but it only works for 30 days after installation and the diskette where
you pull the licenses off for the WinNT server is copy-protected, I think.

It looks pretty good - on paper at least. I couldn't get the client to
work on our Sun configuration. When they called me to ask how I liked the
program, the 30 days had expired and I hadn't had the time to figure out
why it wouldn't work. So we didn't buy it. End of story.

Hope this helps.

=============================================================================
Jac Goudsmit
CD-i & PC Software Engineer ^
Codim Interactive Media CV
Eindhoven, The Netherlands < C O D I M >
j...@codim.nl
ja...@xs4all.nl v
http://www.codim.nl
=============================================================================

snoss

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Jun 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/4/96

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Vitana Corporation wrote:
>
> I am familiar with Hummingbird's Exceed line of products
> and Starnet's X-Win line of products which allow you to
> display X apps on a Windows system.
>

> I am currently looking for something which will do the
> exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
> on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
> would likely be running on Windows NT).
>

> Does anyone know of any have software which will do this?
> If so, could I get some details? If not, then I would be
> looking at implementing this. Do you know of any function
> libraries which could simplify the task?
>
> Please E-Mail responses as I cannot access the news groups
> very often.
>
> Thank you kindly,
> Ron McKinnon
>
> ==================================================
> Ron McKinnon E-Mail: rmc...@vitana.com
> Vitana Corporation Tel : (613) 749-4445
> 26-5470 Canotek Rd. Fax : (613) 749-4087
> Gloucester, Ontario
> K1J 9H3
>
> (GC 2.1) GE/S/CS/M/MU d-@>---- H+(++) s g+ p0@ au* a-
> w+++ v+ C++$ UL/A/V/H/I/S/C+++$>++++ P+>+++ L+(++)
> 3 E--- N+ K W++$>--- M-- V- po--- Y+ t+ 5++ j++ R(-)
> G'' tv b++ D++ B e-(*) u+++(**) h* f- r* n+ y?

We have looked at one called WINCENTER. Not sure of the manufacturer.
Looks pretty good so far.
sn...@u.washington.edu

Ken Lee

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Jun 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/4/96

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In article <31B47D...@u.washington.edu>, snoss <sn...@u.washington.edu> writes:
|> We have looked at one called WINCENTER. Not sure of the manufacturer.

WinCenter is a product of NCD. My web site has a pointer to this and
other similar products.

--
Ken Lee, X/Motif Consulting, http://www.rahul.net/kenton/index.html

Phillip J. Stallone

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Jun 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/6/96

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Ron,

We use NTrigue which sends the Windows NT desktop to a UNIX box
running X. This is different that a Microsoft windows emulation
program such as Softwindows which runs on the UNIX workstation and
is a lot slower. The NTrigue method is *similar* to sending the display
to another node in X.

--
Phillip J. Stallone
Digital Equipment Corp.
p...@unx.dec.com

Tim Roberts

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Jun 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/7/96

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Jac Goudsmit <ja...@xs2.xs4all.nl> wrote:

>On 31 May 1996, Vitana Corporation wrote:

>A couple of months ago I got a free demo of such a program. It's called
>WinDD (don't know what that stands for) and it's made by Tektronix.

"WinDD" stands for "Windows Distributed Desktop". Pretty cool concept.

-- Tim Roberts, ti...@iia.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Mark Davis

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Jun 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/10/96

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Jac Goudsmit <ja...@xs2.xs4all.nl> writes:

>On 31 May 1996, Vitana Corporation wrote:

>>I am currently looking for something which will do the
>>exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
>>on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
>>would likely be running on Windows NT).

>A couple of months ago I got a free demo of such a program. It's called

>WinDD (don't know what that stands for) and it's made by Tektronix.

It is very proprietary, requires the use of a separate NT box, is very
expensive, and won't run MS-DOS apps in a text environment.

My recommendation would be to look into SCO's Locus Merge, which can do
everything WinDD can do, and at the same speeds, but less expensively
and can run under Unix.

Donald R. Dahlquist

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Jun 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/10/96

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ma...@taylor.infi.net (Mark Davis) wrote:

>Jac Goudsmit <ja...@xs2.xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>>On 31 May 1996, Vitana Corporation wrote:
>
>>>I am currently looking for something which will do the
>>>exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
>>>on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
>>>would likely be running on Windows NT).
>
>>A couple of months ago I got a free demo of such a program. It's called
>>WinDD (don't know what that stands for) and it's made by Tektronix.
>
>It is very proprietary,

Most quality, supported, software is proprietary. What differentiates
one vendors achievements from the next is the value that they provide or
add. In order to stay in business and prosper, they need to protect
these achievements. By the way, what is *very* proprietary? WinDD
easily integrates into most appropriate business networks and has
generic X support if you need it. Can Locus Merge run on any Intel
platform or only one running a very proprietary version of Unix (SCO)?

>requires the use of a separate NT box,

It requires a computer (Intel 486 or better) to operate, the NT is
included. This is a server application. Merge also seems to need a
separate box unless it is installed on each workstation/desktop.

>is very expensive,
For very small installations (less than 10 users) this is true. The
cost per user for a large installation (50-100 users) for both hardware
and software can be as low as $400. This is based on an analysis by 3M
for a 100 user system with 30 concurrent users. Their estimate is that
one in three users would need access at the same moment. The users
primary job would occupy the bulk of their daily tasks. WinDD (serving
engineering workstations) is designed to provide access to productivity
tools, not as the primary desktop for these engineering users. However,
for the PC client access you would probably consider that users would be
accessing WinDD for the full working day.

> and won't run MS-DOS apps in a text environment.

This is just plain false. It won't run MS-DOS *graphic* applications to
the workstation clients, just on the console. All MS-DOS text
applications should run just fine - if they work under NT at all.

>My recommendation would be to look into SCO's Locus Merge, which can do
>everything WinDD can do, and at the same speeds,

Is this freeware or is this also proprietary? I think the part that you
are referring to as proprietary is the ICA data stream that the WinDD
server uses to communicate to its clients. The benefit of this is that
ICA is three to four times as efficient as X in terms of network traffic
and runs on any tcp/ip network. In other words, Locus Merge and
WinCenter can only support 1/4 to 1/3 the number of clients on a tcp/ip
segment as WinDD.

WinDD can support generic X clients and also has a client for PC's (286
and up) - DOS, Windows and Windows 95. If you happen to have a
Tektronix X terminal and version 8.0 or above of their XpressWare, the
client license is included (free) and the client runs locally on the X
terminal. A Tektronix X terminal is not required for any aspect of the
WinDD system.

>but less expensively
This is possible, do you have some numbers for a 50 user system for
hardware and software cost?

>and can run under Unix.

Is this really a benefit? Sounds like a couple of levels of emulation
are needed here (NT emulation under Unix and X drivers converting NT
graphics). WinDD runs NT directly - it is not a NT emulator running as
a Unix process. You do not have to manage a version of Unix (SC0) and
NT on the same machine. By the way, Tektronix has a client for SCO as
well as AIX, HP/UX, SunOS, Solaris and DEC Alpha. Support for
mutli-user NFS and NIS is also available.

I have never seen Locus Merge so I don't know how it compares in terms
of performance to WinDD - but I will take your word for it. Do they
have a free demo available? If so, how do I get one. Do the have free
technical support during the demo? Can the demo be upgraded to a
production system to preserve the work done during the demo (you can do
this with WinDD)?

Regards,

Don
-------------------------
Donald R. Dahlquist
X Terminal Consulting
do...@XTerm.Com
(612) 645-0064

Brian

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Jun 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/11/96

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i've evaluated two products, citrix winframe, and connectsoft's
x-connection (still in beta)...

i found citrix overwhelming to install,.. it took about 3 days,..
several patches,.. and a lot of reading, to get going. however, when
i was done, it seemed to be pretty solid. although, price wise,
citrix costs a fortune. (400 bucks * 15 users). what troubled me was
that it was a hacked nt server,.. i didn't feel comfortable with that.
it did run fine (and fast) though

the x-connection is a little less pricey (~800 bucks), and it was s/w
that you install on top of nt-server,... more maintainable (imho).
however, this product is still in beta (for a couple more days),.. and
i have seen some flakey behavior (x-windows that wont go away). but
it seemed fine. not as lightning fast, but acceptable.

good luck

--brian
________ ________ .__ ___ _____ _______________.__ .__ ____.__.
\____ \\____ \| | / _ \ \Brian J. Gelly_/\_ _____/| | | | \__ | |
| | _/ | _/| bjg...@cle.ab.com (brian...@ab.com) | | | / | |
| | \ | | \| |/ | Senior Software Engineer \| |__ | |__ \__ |
|____ / |_Rockwell Automation, Allen-Bradley --/Cleveland, Ohio!!___ \/ ____|
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/\/

Gil Bregman

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Jun 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/13/96

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Check out our DoubleAgent product at http://www.DoubleAgent.co.il, it will
allow you to use Windows (both 95 and NT) application on Unix X Windows
machines.

Gil

In article <1996Jun10....@taylor.infi.net>,

ma...@taylor.infi.net (Mark Davis) writes:
> Jac Goudsmit <ja...@xs2.xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>>On 31 May 1996, Vitana Corporation wrote:
>
>>>I am currently looking for something which will do the
>>>exact opposite. I want to display a Windows application
>>>on a Unix platform running X-windows. (The windows app
>>>would likely be running on Windows NT).
>
>>A couple of months ago I got a free demo of such a program. It's called
>>WinDD (don't know what that stands for) and it's made by Tektronix.
>

> It is very proprietary, requires the use of a separate NT box, is very
> expensive, and won't run MS-DOS apps in a text environment.

>
> My recommendation would be to look into SCO's Locus Merge, which can do

> everything WinDD can do, and at the same speeds, but less expensively

> and can run under Unix.
>

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gil Bregman Applicom Systems, Ltd.
Email : Gil.B...@applicom.co.il 39 Ha-Galim Boulevard
Phone : +972-9-598-679 Merkazim Building 2001
Fax : +972-9-598-990 Herzliya 46725, ISRAEL
WWW: http://www.applicom.co.il/~gil P.O. Box 2016
Herzliya 46120, ISRAEL
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------