What would you like to see most in minix?

[Jyrki Kuoppala]

In article <1991Aug25....@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, torvalds@klaava (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
>This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
>I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
>are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)

Tell us more! Does it need a MMU?

>PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
>It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc)

How much of it is in C? What difficulties will there be in porting?
Nobody will believe you about non-portability ;-), and I for one would
like to port it to my Amiga (Mach needs a MMU and Minix is not free).

As for the features; well, pseudo ttys, BSD sockets, user-mode
filesystems (so I can say cat /dev/tcp/kruuna.helsinki.fi/finger),
window size in the tty structure, system calls capable of supporting
POSIX.1. Oh, and bsd-style long file names.

//Jyrki

[Linus Benedict Torvalds]

In article <1991Aug25.2...@nntp.hut.fi> j...@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>> [re: my post about my new OS]

>
>Tell us more! Does it need a MMU?

Yes, it needs a MMU (sorry everybody), and it specifically needs a
386/486 MMU (see later).

>
>>PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
>>It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc)
>
>How much of it is in C? What difficulties will there be in porting?
>Nobody will believe you about non-portability ;-), and I for one would
>like to port it to my Amiga (Mach needs a MMU and Minix is not free).

Simply, I'd say that porting is impossible. It's mostly in C, but most
people wouldn't call what I write C. It uses every conceivable feature
of the 386 I could find, as it was also a project to teach me about the
386. As already mentioned, it uses a MMU, for both paging (not to disk
yet) and segmentation. It's the segmentation that makes it REALLY 386
dependent (every task has a 64Mb segment for code & data - max 64 tasks
in 4Gb. Anybody who needs more than 64Mb/task - tough cookies).

It also uses every feature of gcc I could find, specifically the __asm__
directive, so that I wouldn't need so much assembly language objects.
Some of my "C"-files (specifically mm.c) are almost as much assembler as
C. It would be "interesting" even to port it to another compiler (though
why anybody would want to use anything other than gcc is a mystery).

Unlike minix, I also happen to LIKE interrupts, so interrupts are
handled without trying to hide the reason behind them (I especially like
my hard-disk-driver. Anybody else make interrupts drive a state-
machine?). All in all it's a porters nightmare.

>As for the features; well, pseudo ttys, BSD sockets, user-mode
>filesystems (so I can say cat /dev/tcp/kruuna.helsinki.fi/finger),
>window size in the tty structure, system calls capable of supporting
>POSIX.1. Oh, and bsd-style long file names.

Most of these seem possible (the tty structure already has stubs for
window size), except maybe for the user-mode filesystems. As to POSIX,
I'd be delighted to have it, but posix wants money for their papers, so
that's not currently an option. In any case these are things that won't
be supported for some time yet (first I'll make it a simple minix-
lookalike, keyword SIMPLE).

Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)

PS. To make things really clear - yes I can run gcc on it, and bash, and
most of the gnu [bin/file]utilities, but it's not very debugged, and the
library is really minimal. It doesn't even support floppy-disks yet. It
won't be ready for distribution for a couple of months. Even then it
probably won't be able to do much more than minix, and much less in some
respects. It will be free though (probably under gnu-license or similar).

[Peter Holzer]

j...@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:

>In article <1991Aug25....@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, torvalds@klaava (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>>This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
>>I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
>>are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)

>As for the features; well, pseudo ttys, BSD sockets, user-mode

>filesystems (so I can say cat /dev/tcp/kruuna.helsinki.fi/finger),
>window size in the tty structure, system calls capable of supporting
>POSIX.1. Oh, and bsd-style long file names.

On a lower level:

I don't like the chmem mechanism of Minix. Processes should start with
a minimal size and grow as they need to until they run out of RAM or
disk space. Paging to disk would be nice, too.

If your OS is message based I would like to have arbitrarily large
messages. They could be implemented efficiently by mapping the pages
into the receivers address space (or just passing a pointer on 68k
systems without MMU). Oh, yes, and the addressing scheme for messages
should be different than in Minix. Messages should not be sent to
process slot numbers, but to ports. That way, user processes can use
messages, too, and it is easier to add your own servers.

PS: I am very interested in this OS. I have already thought of writing
my own OS, but decided I wouldn't have the time to write everything from
scratch. But I guess I could find the time to help raising a baby
OS :-)
--
| _ | Peter J. Holzer | Think of it |
| |_|_) | Technical University Vienna | as evolution |
| | | | Dept. for Real-Time Systems | in action! |
| __/ | h...@vmars.tuwien.ac.at | Tony Rand |

[James da Silva]

In article <1991Aug26.1...@klaava.Helsinki.FI> torv...@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>Unlike minix, I also happen to LIKE interrupts, so interrupts are
>handled without trying to hide the reason behind them (I especially like
>my hard-disk-driver. Anybody else make interrupts drive a state-
>machine?).

Sure. For one example, Alessandro Forin's Mach SCSI adapter drivers are
written this way. A comment from his code:

/*
* This layer works based on small simple 'scripts' that are installed
* at the start of the command and drive the chip to completion.
* The idea comes from the specs of the NCR 53C700 'script' processor.
*
* There are various reasons for this, mainly
* - Performance: identify the common (successful) path, and follow it;
* at interrupt time no code is needed to find the current status
* - Code size: it should be easy to compact common operations
* - Adaptability: the code skeleton should adapt to different chips without
* terrible complications.
* - Error handling: and it is easy to modify the actions performed
* by the scripts to cope with strange but well identified sequences
*
*/

An interesting way to write a device driver. I believe this is a very old
technique, too.

Good luck on your OS project, it sounds like a lot of fun.
Jaime
...........................................................................
: domain: j...@cs.umd.edu James da Silva
: path: uunet!mimsy!jds Systems Design & Analysis Group

[Adam David]

One of the things that really bugs me about minix is the way device drivers
have to be compiled into the kernel. So, how about doing some sensible
installable device driver code (same goes for minix 2.0 whenever).

--
Adam David.
(ad...@rhi.hi.is)

[Alan Barclay]

In article <1991Aug26.1...@klaava.Helsinki.FI> torv...@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:

>yet) and segmentation. It's the segmentation that makes it REALLY 386
>dependent (every task has a 64Mb segment for code & data - max 64 tasks
>in 4Gb. Anybody who needs more than 64Mb/task - tough cookies).
>

Is that max 64 64Mb tasks or max 64 tasks no matter what their size?
--
Alan Barclay
iT | E-mail : al...@ukpoit.uucp
Barker Lane | BANG-STYLE : .....!ukc!ukpoit!alan
CHESTERFIELD S40 1DY | VOICE : +44 246 214241

[Linus Benedict Torvalds]

In article <1991Aug27.1...@ukpoit.co.uk> al...@ukpoit.co.uk (Alan Barclay) writes:
>In article <1991Aug26.1...@klaava.Helsinki.FI> torv...@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds) writes:
>>yet) and segmentation. It's the segmentation that makes it REALLY 386
>>dependent (every task has a 64Mb segment for code & data - max 64 tasks
>>in 4Gb. Anybody who needs more than 64Mb/task - tough cookies).
>>
>
>Is that max 64 64Mb tasks or max 64 tasks no matter what their size?

I'm afraid that is 64 tasks max (and one is used as swapper), no matter
how small they should be. Fragmentation is evil - this is how it was
handled. As the current opinion seems to be that 64 Mb is more than
enough, but 64 tasks might be a little crowded, I'll probably change the
limits be easily changed (to 32Mb/128 tasks for example) with just a
recompilation of the kernel. I don't want to be on the machine when
someone is spawning >64 processes, though :-)

Linus

[John]

Thanks for creating Linux.

[구글]

thank you very much torvalds

[Kasumifan]

Great! This maybe the most important event in modern history, really!

[정준혁]

Really Thanks!
If You didn't develop Linux, I would not able to set up Server easily :D

U R really AWESOME!!!

[JensMinor]

Please make Linux :-)

[Kasumifan]

On Friday, August 26, 2011 8:47:37 PM UTC+4, JensMinor wrote:
> Please make Linux :-)

Yeah! Yeah! Please! Make it!

[James]

now i feel old as i was a user from near the beginning. i remember the first attempts to get it running on my 386 (took days to get things going).

THANKS LINUS you're contribution to the world has changed it in many many GOOD ways

[Triviox]

"Hello everybody out there using minix -"
No, i don't use minix; i use GnuLinux!!

Thanks Mr.Trovalds...
:)

[churchy]

And without minix Mr. Torvalds would probably have done
some nice windows programs. Thank /you/ Mr. Tannenbaum!

[prafu...@gmail.com]

Thanks!

[dsrking]

Thanks a lot.

[Rico Dittrich]

Linus, I don't know how to thank you!
You've made something big and awesome!
Thanks for everything! :)

[kirj...@gmail.com]

Thank you :)

[jay...@gmail.com]

21 Years Later!!
Thank you Torvalds for Linux!!

From Fiji

On Monday, August 26, 1991 6:12:08 PM UTC+12, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).

>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.

> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>

> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)

>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.

> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

[jus...@wikia-inc.com]

Yeah, seriously, it was such an important decision to start this project. Thanks so much!

Now, I'm having this problem on one of my Linux servers...

:-P

[max...@googlemail.com]

Am Montag, 26. August 1991 08:12:08 UTC+2 schrieb Linus Benedict Torvalds:

> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and

> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones...

Omg, this is so awesome! Thank you Mr. Torvalds!

[naveen.ka...@gmail.com]

Thank you Sir..

thank you for the revolution you have made
thank you for the awesome work and inspiration

~ Naveen Karuthedath

[Amit Kumar]

Thanks for such an amazing OS. I hope something new and revolutionary
comes again in OSes!

[milind....@gmail.com]

I am a New User to Linux and the ideology behind it is amazing thank you very much for your contribution to the whole world. It would be interesting to see one day all machines running Linux. Its been a success and hope it never ends. All the best for future endeavors. If you travel to India anytime i hope u can organize some talks and shows so people became aware of the project. Take care....

On Monday, 26 August 1991 11:42:08 UTC+5:30, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and

> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

to

[scgsc...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 26, 1991 2:12:08 AM UTC-4, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

It turns out that it supports WAY more than AT-harddisks!
Thank you, Linus, for making a contribution not only to computing, but to all humanity.

[Christopher Long]

On Sunday, August 25, 1991 11:12:08 PM UTC-7, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.

Thanks, Linus! Looks interesting - what are you going to call it?
--
Christopher D. Long, San Diego Padres, 100 Park Boulevard, San Diego CA

Score: 0, Diff: 1, clong killed by a Harvard Math Team on 1

[colone...@yahoo.com]

Less trolling?

[jos...@gmail.com]

El lunes, 26 de agosto de 1991 01:12:08 UTC-5, Linus Benedict Torvalds escribió:

> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and

> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

and so here i am 20 years later reading this mail, linux is where my true skill as programmer began and this reply is just to be back here in other 20 years and be able to read it :D

[donatom]

On Friday, February 24, 2012 9:40:37 PM UTC-8, jay...@gmail.com wrote:

Linus,

You, Richard Stallman, BSD and the many programmers who helped you, Stallman and the BSD program have truly set this world free (free as in liberty, imagination and possibilities)! This would be a dreary planet without all of
the things that you have done -- and all of the things you have enabled others to do (many millions of them).

Thanks a bunch! We all hope that you revel in your unique, unbelievable legacy.

Don M.

[evelo...@gmail.com]

Thanks Linus, this thread is a true piece of history. Your creation changed the world and I can only hope to have 1/10000 of the positive impact that you had on the world as a whole.

I'll be back in 10 years to read this and see how far I've come.

[subu...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 26 August 1991 11:42:08 UTC+5:30, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

Thanks Very muck :-)

[emerson1...@gmail.com]

Wow, this is the original post about Linux? I thought it is gone already.

BTW I am a true Linux Fan. Go Linux!!!!

[rachit...@gmail.com]

what are

On Monday, 26 August 1991 11:42:08 UTC+5:30, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>

> I&#39;m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won&#39;t be big and

> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing

> since april, and is starting to get ready. I&#39;d like any feedback on

> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>

> I&#39;ve currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I&#39;ll get something practical within a few months, and
> I&#39;d like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won&#39;t promise I&#39;ll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it&#39;s free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.

> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never

> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that&#39;s all I have :-(.

ur future plans??

[plan...@gmail.com]

Dňa pondelok, 26. augusta 1991 8:12:08 UTC+2 Linus Benedict Torvalds napísal(-a):

Linux is EPIC!!!

[rafi...@gmail.com]

Dear Sir

thank u very sir

On Monday, 26 August 1991 11:42:08 UTC+5:30, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:

> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and

> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing

> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on

> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>

> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.

> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never

[alexandr...@gmail.com]

> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

I've just recently started using linux as my main OS, for about 1 month now, and the ideology behind linux and all the free/open source software is really beautiful. I fell in love with it!!

Thank you for your great job!

[jiangzh...@gmail.com]

Thank you so much torvalds to make linux for world.

[wangchao...@gmail.com]

After years, when I look into this email, yet I still feel excited. Thank you Linus, for making Linux. It's always the loyal companion, true lover and lifelong mentor.

[cho...@gmail.com]

I like this gift. Thanks, linus.

[lenna...@gmail.com]

Thank you very much for makin this world a better place torvalds =) =)

[cri...@gmail.com]

How does it feel to know that, while still in school, your pursuit of a hobby has changed the world? People who've never seen your face are grateful to you and your name will be remembered for a very long time.

Thank you for that. :) Have a great day!

[spz...@gmail.com]

And the rest is history :)
Thanks for the passion, dear linux community!

[jehada...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 26, 1991 9:12:08 AM UTC+3, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

Awesome... u changed the world i would like to be a shortcut of u because i wanna to be big programmer like u ^_^

[milind....@gmail.com]

I can't believe I didn't know this existed. Reading about the humble beginnings of the one system I tried to crash all my Engineering years is spiritual in a way.

Thanks Linus. What you have done is truly in every sense of the word, historical.

-Milind

[linuxm...@gmail.com]

Happy 21st Birthday Linux ....

[ideo...@gmail.com]

wow,,
its amazing,,
i don't believe that i can be a part of greatest conversation about Linux,,

Thanks a lot Sir Linus,
you make something different,,

[nau....@gmail.com]

Linus Benedict Torvalds you changed the world .

Linux now in pc,servers and now in Andriod.

You are the most generous person in the world.

We all owe you.


Br,
Nauman Ahmad Khan
Mobilink NOC
Pakistan

[skyzo...@gmail.com]

Thank you from france Linus we love you !
lot of peace and happiness to you and your family

[tj.abde...@gmail.com]

Thank you ever so much for what you did !

[remotem...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 26, 1991 11:42:08 AM UTC+5:30, Linus Benedict Torvalds wrote:
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

Thanks for your wonderful creation.

Regards,
Karthik.P.R
MySQL DBA

[changmin...@gmail.com]

在 1991年8月26日星期一UTC+9下午3时12分08秒，Linus Benedict Torvalds写道：

> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torv...@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

i have seen [just for fun].
Thank you for the linux so much.