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Re: Linux in Crisis

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B1ackwater

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Dec 24, 2020, 2:11:56 AM12/24/20
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On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 06:01:33 -0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
(The Doctor) wrote:

>In article <cq98ufhr191dagjah...@4ax.com>,
>B1ackwater <b...@magikbeanz.net> wrote:
>>On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 15:05:09 -0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>(The Doctor) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <oc13uftdjbg9rd9f2...@4ax.com>,
>>>B1ackwater <b...@magikbeanz.net> wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 00:32:31 -0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>>>(The Doctor) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <eli$20122...@qaz.wtf>,
>>>>>Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>In comp.os.linux.misc, The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.misc, The Doctor <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Stats for newsgroups available?
>>>>>>>> This you?
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: XanaNews Statistic for comp.os.linux.misc. 9/1/2020
>>>>>>> 12:15:08 AM
>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>> You are still posting that spam monthly.
>>>>>>> Where?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: XanaNews Statistic for comp.lang.c. 12/1/2020 8:00:46 AM
>>>>>> From: "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 15:00:49 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Message-ID: <rq5lr1$kpc$3...@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One of four I saw this month.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Elijah
>>>>>>------
>>>>>>shouldn't need to tell you where your spam goes
>>>>>
>>>>>Then answer this: IS Linus Torvalds the equivalent of Bill Gates?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I am still waiting for the Bearded but still
>>>
>>>> Personality-wise ... yes. He's an anal-retentive prima-donna.
>>>> However, his one important from the Gates model
>>>> is that he is content to be Lord Of The Lini - and not Conqueror
>>>> Of The Marketplace.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How Gates screwed IBM is how Torvalds is screwing Unix.
>>
>> Hmmm ... screwing it HOW exactly ???
>>
>> Seem he continues to defend the free-OS model to the
>> max AND protect the OS from those who would destroy
>> it's whole logical structure in persuit of a few bells and
>> whistles.
>>
>> Good for Linus.
>>
>>>> Gates was ALWAYS In It For The Money - from Altair on.
>>>> Everything else was secondary.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Blood profit.
>>
>> Profit, in and of it self, is not a bad thing. How you GET it,
>> who you SCREW for it and HOW .... those are other issues.
>> MS went from being "ok" to being a monster over the years,
>> rather like Google's new mantra of "... Be Evil". Persuit of
>> max profit by any means generally leads to evil. Then there
>> are no excuses.
>>
>>>> I DO own the very last thing he is reputed to have personally
>>>> written any code for - a little Radio Shack "notebook", years
>>>> before real notebooks. Canned apps, acoustic modem, it
>>>> is said foreign news reporters loved them because they
>>>> ran a long time on regular batteries and with the acoustic
>>>> link you could post your story from pretty much anywhere
>>>> in the world.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>WEll I will BSD my workstation and run
>>>in byhe
>>
>
>bhyve, sorry.
>
>> Ummm ... ?que?
>>
>>>
>>>Centos
>>>
>>>OS/2
>>>
>>>Win10
>>>
>>>for now.
>>
>> OS/2 is obsolete, and now Centos. W10 *should* have
>> died at birth but instead grew into the cyber equivalent
>> of some destructive mutant Japanese movie monster
>> that smashes everything in reach.
>>
>> Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
>> was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
>> It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
>> is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
>> better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
>> about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)
>>
>
>ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.

Young whippersnapper ! :-)

There was a lot of brilliant work in the 70s/80s that never
became hugely popular. It was not for lack of potential or
any flaw in the paradigm, mostly just for lack of $$$ to
promote it to a larger audience.

Time to revisit I think ....

Find the good stuff and AMPLIFY.

The Doctor

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Dec 24, 2020, 8:28:56 AM12/24/20
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In article <sff8ufljr4rs1cj0r...@4ax.com>,
Well, E-Bay might have some relics.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
Merry Christmas 2020 and Happy New Year 2021 !

Aragorn

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Dec 24, 2020, 3:49:57 PM12/24/20
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On 24.12.2020 at 02:11, B1ackwater scribbled:
To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)

You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
(among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
graphical user interface by default.

Another difference with Unix was that even the network adapters were
now represented under /dev as device special files, and there was an
additional virtual filesystem to /proc, mounted at /net.

As I understand it, Plan 9 is now available as Open Source, but beyond
use in a cluster of virtual machines as a toy, it's not really usable
for anything else in this day and age. It's a pity though, because it
sure was an interesting operating system. But then again, so was the
idea behind GNU/HURD.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd



--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

The Doctor

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Dec 24, 2020, 3:51:29 PM12/24/20
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In article <20201224214948.63c1bc65@nx-74205>,
Either way or, it would be nice for Plan-9 to go open source.

The Doctor

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Dec 26, 2020, 7:28:14 PM12/26/20
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In article <sRPFH.29545$kh2....@fx24.iad>,
Bud Frede <fr...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>Aragorn <thor...@telenet.be> writes:
>
>> On 24.12.2020 at 02:11, B1ackwater scribbled:
>>
>>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 06:01:33 -0000 (UTC), doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>>> (The Doctor) wrote:
>>>
>>> > In article <cq98ufhr191dagjah...@4ax.com>,
>>> > B1ackwater <b...@magikbeanz.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Did you ever fool with OS-9 back in the day ? There
>>> >> was a version for the Radio Shack Color Computer.
>>> >> It is now sold as a RTOS by MicroWare. However it
>>> >> is very Unix-like under the hood, many say it's much
>>> >> better at it than real Unix. I conditionally agree. How
>>> >> about a 64/128 version spiffed into a proper modern OS ? :-)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > ArcaOS is now OS/2. As for OS-9, never heard of it.
>>>
>>> Young whippersnapper ! :-)
>>
>> To be fair, you've misnamed it. OS9 is actually the Classic %ac OS
>> System 9, but I know that's not what you meant. ;)
>>
>> You were referring to Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which was developed by
>> (among others) Dennis Ritchie as a successor to Unix. It's a
>> distributed operating system — meaning that it basically turns the
>> entire LAN into a single supercomputer — and it had a (primitive)
>> graphical user interface by default.
>
>No, OS-9 is something else entirely.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS-9
>
>There was also OS/8. I've been told that Gary Kildall was familiar with
>OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/8
>
>

Love the history around here.

The Natural Philosopher

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Dec 26, 2020, 10:51:06 PM12/26/20
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On 26/12/2020 23:39, Bud Frede wrote:
> Gary Kildall was familiar with
> OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.
Not according to wiki

"Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M during 1974, as an operating
system to run on an Intel Intellec-8 development system, equipped with a
Shugart Associates 8-inch floppy disk drive interfaced via a custom
floppy disk controller. It was written in Kildall's own PL/M
(Programming Language for Microcomputers). Various aspects of CP/M were
influenced by the TOPS-10 operating system of the DECsystem-10 mainframe
computer, which Kildall had used as a development environment."

I heard that the CP/M disk FAT style structure that was aped in PCDOS
was actually the format that the Intellec 8 system used. I have twice
written code to access such structures and it is actually surprisingly
easy.

If only he hadn't been out playing golf when IBM called...

--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

John Gardner

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Dec 29, 2020, 1:52:24 AM12/29/20
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/12/2020 23:39, Bud Frede wrote:
>> Gary Kildall was familiar with
>> OS/8 and got some of the ideas for CP/M from it.
> Not according to wiki
>
> "Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M during 1974, as an operating
> system to run on an Intel Intellec-8 development system, equipped with a
> Shugart Associates 8-inch floppy disk drive interfaced via a custom
> floppy disk controller. It was written in Kildall's own PL/M
> (Programming Language for Microcomputers). Various aspects of CP/M were
> influenced by the TOPS-10 operating system of the DECsystem-10 mainframe
> computer, which Kildall had used as a development environment."
>
> I heard that the CP/M disk FAT style structure that was aped in PCDOS
> was actually the format that the Intellec 8 system used. I have twice
> written code to access such structures and it is actually surprisingly
> easy.
>
> If only he hadn't been out playing golf when IBM called...
>

The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of that
story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that. Reality is
that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted too much money.
PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you back $240. Greed was
the problem.

Aragorn

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Dec 29, 2020, 2:32:18 AM12/29/20
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On 29.12.2020 at 06:52, John Gardner scribbled:

> The story was that Kidall went flying his glider, but the source of
> that story was Bill Gates so I wouldn’t put too much faith in that.
> Reality is that Gary thought he was the only game in town and wanted
> too much money. PC DOS sold for $40 a copy and CP/M-86 would set you
> back $240. Greed was the problem.

That's one way of looking at it, but the history books have it that
Kildall and his wife insisted on a royalties-based licensing while IBM
wanted to retain full control.

Also, MS-DOS was just the rebranded 86DOS (or QDOS, for "Quick & Dirty
Operating System) by Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer, and 86-DOS was
essentially a not very legal and somewhat crippled 16-bit rewrite of
CP/M. Considering the legally dubious nature of 86DOS, Paterson had no
real use for it, and when Gates found out about it, he bought the full
rights to 86DOS from Paterson for USD $63'000, offered Paterson a job
at Microsoft, and told IBM that he had what they were looking for.

The Doctor

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Dec 29, 2020, 9:20:41 AM12/29/20
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In article <i50214...@mid.individual.net>,
Lying Gates for you. Must watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

The Doctor

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Dec 29, 2020, 9:21:36 AM12/29/20
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In article <20201229083211.3148407c@nx-74205>,
Gates is a thief! Again must watch Pirates of Silicon Valley.

>
>--
>With respect,
>= Aragorn =
>


Christopher Conforti

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Feb 19, 2022, 1:00:19 PM2/19/22
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On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 21:49:48 +0100, Aragorn wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd

Wikipedia--HISSSS!!! :-)

Just link to the project pages, please don't feed that revisionist
hellhole more bandwidth.

https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/

https://9p.io/plan9/

25.BX943

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Feb 23, 2022, 11:48:28 AM2/23/22
to
Oh ... WP ain't THAT bad. You just need the power to
smell when somebody is trying to sell you on some
product or perspective .... but then these days
anyone without a functional BS detector is doomed
regardless.

Plan-9 really ain't a bad OS ... it's no toy, it was
built to do real work.

But I'd rather see an open-source continuation
of VMS .....
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