Diamond Stealth 3D or Matrox Millineum?
bd
I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not having 3D
capability on Matrox?
Nico Coesel
r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
>Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
>well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
Go for ET6000.... There is an Xfree86 accelerated server available.
The version I have can only display up to 256 colors. For the rest
(WIn95 and DOS games) it works very very well.
I wouldn't buy a Diamond card at any time. The support is lousy
(drivers don't keep track of the latest OS).
Shane
Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards. There
really isn't any 'real 3D' cards on the market. Most '3D' cards on
the market are sort of 1st attempt and will be obsolete soon. Why
give up phenomenal 2D performance to do mediocre 3D?
I run linux 2.0.26, and accelerated X server 2.1. I have a friend on
the XFree86 consortium and he compiles advanced alpha Xservers
for my millennium. They've made some really great improvements to the
Xserver. In another two or three months, there'll be no need for me
to run the accelerated X. Though at the moment, the Xinside's server
is still much faster.
The closest 2D performance to the millennium is the #9 imagine 128,
but from what I hear, it's still not anywhere close to the millennium.
Beware though, the millennium has a cheap oak chipset for the low end
VGA stuff. So if you play lots of old DOS games that only use the old
VGA stuff, it's likely to be mediocre. The newer games that utilize
the VESA 2.0 will run just fine though (i.e. Duke3D, Quake, etc.)
On Sat, 14 Dec 96 19:55:45 GMT, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
>Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
>well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
>
Robert J. Murphree
I always hate to see mis-information posted by people who don't know any
better. Allow me to make a few corrections here:
Shane <Tired of Spam Mail> wrote in article
<32b328d9...@news.earthlink.net>...
> Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards.
The Stealth3D is actually faster than the Millennium at 2D. I can post
benchmarks to prove this. Can you?
There
> really isn't any 'real 3D' cards on the market.
Wrong again, ever heard of the Orchid R3D and the Diamond Monster3D?
Most '3D' cards on
> the market are sort of 1st attempt and will be obsolete soon. Why
> give up phenomenal 2D performance to do mediocre 3D?
The Stealth3D "may" be mediocre at 3D, and that is only an opinion, but it
is one of the FASTEST 2D cards on the market Period. Check PC Mag's
review.
>
> I run linux 2.0.26, and accelerated X server 2.1. I have a friend on
> the XFree86 consortium and he compiles advanced alpha Xservers
> for my millennium. They've made some really great improvements to the
> Xserver. In another two or three months, there'll be no need for me
> to run the accelerated X. Though at the moment, the Xinside's server
> is still much faster.
>
> The closest 2D performance to the millennium is the #9 imagine 128,
> but from what I hear, it's still not anywhere close to the millennium.
>
I would say about 90% of the newer 2D/3D combo cards beat the Millennium in
2D speed, including Matrox's own Mystique. The simple fact is that the
Millennium is yesterday's news. The Imagine128 blows the old Millennium
out of the water.
> Beware though, the millennium has a cheap oak chipset for the low end
> VGA stuff.
Do you even own a Millennium? It does not have an OAK chip for vga. The
vga is built into the Millenniums Acc. Chip.
So if you play lots of old DOS games that only use the old
> VGA stuff, it's likely to be mediocre.
Wrong again, even though the Millennium is not as fast as some of the
newer 2D and 3D cards, it is still a fast DOS card.
The newer games that utilize
> the VESA 2.0 will run just fine though (i.e. Duke3D, Quake, etc.)
>
> On Sat, 14 Dec 96 19:55:45 GMT, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>
> >I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding
between
> >Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it
works
> >well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
> >
> >Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not
having 3D
> >capability on Matrox?
>
The Millennium's 3D capability is 1st generation and might actually be
slower than todays cheap 2D/3D solutions. But if you run Linux, then the
Matrox Mystique would probably be your best bet. Do yourself a favor and
don't trust everything you read on the Usenet. There are people who post
crap they know nothing about.
Paul Erickson
On Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:32:07 GMT, Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) wrote:
>Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards.
According to what benchmark and what resolution? Here's something I
grabbed off PC Magazine Online: (11/16/96)
It doesn't seem to agree with your analysis.
2-D Performance Analysis
The best-performing 2-D board in this roundup also includes 3-D
features. On this year's Windows 2-D graphics benchmark tests, which
include our new ZD Business Winstone 97 and ZD Business Graphics
WinMark 97 tests, the overall performance winner was the Diamond
Stealth 3D 2000XL. This $180 board, equipped with 4MB of EDO DRAM,
outpaced every other product on our Graphics WinMark tests at both
tested resolutions, and it was also at the top on our new Winstone 97
tests, virtually tying the Matrox Millennium, a long-time 2-D
performance leader. The Diamond board proved as much as 28 percent
faster than the Genoa Phantom 3D and the Spider
Tarantula 3D, two of the ten boards we tested that are based on the
same S3 ViRGE chip that the Diamond board uses.
The two boards based on the Tseng Labs ET6000葉he Jazz G-Force 128
and the VideoLogic GrafixStar 600用roduced above-average Graphics
WinMark scores, about 10 percent behind the Diamond board. On the
Business Winstone tests, that gap closed to about 2 percent.
My note... as far as games go the ET6000 cards are the fastest DOS
cards in the world and easily kill the Millenium in MPEG/motion video
playback. The ViRGE cards also handily beat the Millenium in video
playback as well.
________________________
____Paul R. Erickson____
__ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES INC(DE)__
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Univ. of Texas/Austin
Graduate School of Business
MBA 1998 Marketing
"The meek shall inherit the earth only when
we're good and done with it, and with them."
-Fred Rexer, G.I.
Shane
On 15 Dec 1996 00:53:07 GMT, "Robert J. Murphree" <murp...@vvm.com>
wrote:
>I always hate to see mis-information posted by people who don't know any
>better. Allow me to make a few corrections here:
Ahem...
>Shane <Tired of Spam Mail> wrote in article
><32b328d9...@news.earthlink.net>...
>> Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards.
>
>The Stealth3D is actually faster than the Millennium at 2D. I can post
>benchmarks to prove this. Can you?
These are my Xbench (http://www.goof.com/xbench/) benchmarks using
a p-90 (overclocked 75), 48 MB 60ns edo, P55CMS 256K PB cache,
Millennium 2 MB 220 RAM DAC, 1024x768, 65 MHz dot clock, 16 bpps
depth, linux 2.0.26, and Accelerated-X v2.1.
819358 lineStones
635417 fillStones
189849 blitStones
26464027 arcStones
1664439 textStones
559867 xStones
Here is an example of the S3 Virge chipset from
(http://www.goof.com/xbench/detail-3.2.html):
CPU : Pentium-100 MHz
M'board Memory : 32 MBytes EDO
Card Vendor + Model : S3 Virge (325)
Card Bus : PCI
Chipset : ViRGE rev. 61
Video Memory : 2 MBytes DRAM, 60 ns
Clock Chip : Trio32/64
RAMDAC : 135
Operating system : Linux 2.0.0
XFree86 release, server : 3.2, XF86_S3V
Physical resoln : 1027x768
Virtual resoln : 1027x768
Dot-clock : 65.148
Bits per pixel : 16
: lines fills blits arcs text complx
xstones
XBench results : 560217 62587 95340 731711 139687 291503
112810
Other Xbench with the Tseng ET6000, S3 968, etc. can also be found on
(http://www.goof.com/xbench/detail-3.2.html).
>The Stealth3D "may" be mediocre at 3D, and that is only an opinion, but it
>is one of the FASTEST 2D cards on the market Period. Check PC Mag's
>review.
[excerpt of PC Mag's review, provided by a follow up post]
> >WinMark 97 tests, the overall performance winner was the Diamond
> >Stealth 3D 2000XL. This $180 board, equipped with 4MB of EDO DRAM,
> >outpaced every other product on our Graphics WinMark tests at both
> >tested resolutions, and it was also at the top on our new Winstone 97
> >tests, virtually tying the Matrox Millennium, a long-time 2-D
Last time I checked the dictionary, VIRTUALLY TYING isn't the same as
'the FASTEST 2D.' Besides, MS Windows systems have a lot of overhead
and tend to be inefficient. X is a better platform for testing
graphics accelerators. The original post asked for X performance.
>I would say about 90% of the newer 2D/3D combo cards beat the Millennium in
>2D speed, including Matrox's own Mystique. The simple fact is that the
>Millennium is yesterday's news. The Imagine128 blows the old Millennium
>out of the water.
The Mystique isn't supported by the XFree86 Xservers. I don't know a
single thing about their performance. It is supported by Accelerated
X v2.1 though.
I'd like to see some Xbench marks of what you're saying.
>> Beware though, the millennium has a cheap oak chipset for the low end
>> VGA stuff.
>
>Do you even own a Millennium? It does not have an OAK chip for vga. The
>vga is built into the Millenniums Acc. Chip.
Do you own a millennium? The VGA frontend is an OAK OTI-087.
[deletion]
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 96 19:55:45 GMT, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>>
>> >I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding
>between
>> >Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it
>works
>> >well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
>> >
>> >Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not
>having 3D
>> >capability on Matrox?
>>
>
>The Millennium's 3D capability is 1st generation and might actually be
>slower than todays cheap 2D/3D solutions. But if you run Linux, then the
>Matrox Mystique would probably be your best bet. Do yourself a favor and
>don't trust everything you read on the Usenet. There are people who post
>crap they know nothing about.
Yes... There certainly is...
Shane
[deletion]
>Wrong again, ever heard of the Orchid R3D and the Diamond Monster3D?
To be honest, I haven't heard much about them. Can you tell me if
those cards support hardware Z-buffers, stereo viewing, hardware alpha
blending, hardware tri-linear texturemapping, hardware lighting?
[deletion]
Shane
Mighty Mekon Computer Co.
Hi
I bought a Diamond Stealth with 2MB EDO, then swopped it for an Expert
Colour S3 Virge based card with 4MB which was cheaper than the Diamond
(about £70.00). The Virge is quick under windows, but I am not
convinced it's much more than a gimmick, maybe when VRML and the like
become more established you may wish you had a 3d card, but if your
primary use is Windows / Linux I cannot see that they are worth
bothering with. I am thinking of swopping my present card, and 3D
won't be a priority. However if you want a real ballbreaker for speed
AND 3D have you seen the new Diamond 3D 2000 with VRAM, in the UK the
trade price is about £185.00 and it's so new I haven't seen reviews
yet, but this looks like being quite good. The torouble with Diamond
is that the drivers are often sub-standard, for instance the NT 4
drivers for the 3D 2000 written by Microsoft are superior to those
written by Diamond, and their help desk stinks, I emailed them maybe
seven times and got zilcho response.
If anyone wants to buy an Expert S3 Virge 4MB EDO card in the UK ring
Microteq on 01733 896667 (NOT spam, they are nothing to with me, I
just buy off them too) and tell 'em the Mekon sent you.
Mekon
Paul Erickson
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:43:20 GMT, Tired of S
>>Do you even own a Millennium? It does not have an OAK chip for vga. The
>>vga is built into the Millenniums Acc. Chip.
>
>Do you own a millennium? The VGA frontend is an OAK OTI-087.
Really. Very interesting that Matrox themselves says that the VGA core
is integrated into the main MGA chip. Call them yourself. One of the
biggest things that was hyped when the Millenium first came out WAS
its integration. Two-chip designs went out of style with the Diamond
Viper VLB's. (in 2-D cards anyway)
And regardless of what it has, it is still no slouch in DOS, it is
faster than more than 3/4 of the market.
And honestly people can debate X benchmarks all damn day but what
matters to people is real-world performance in their hands. Windows
performance that is. Most people don't run X apps all day long but
they do run Win95 and WinNT.
Kaj Kjellgren
Are you talking about the Matrox Millenium with 180MHZ RAMDac
or the latest (and "real") board with 220 MHz RAMDac ?
I have the later one, and it is really fast.
So far when checking speed-tests around the net it
always seems to win the tests... however if you go
to some of the sites belonging to i.e diamond you
find some
really strange results. (They made one of the
tests with the WRONG driver for the millenium, when they
re-did it the results where nowhere to be found any longer,
I don't think it was diamond who did this test, but it was
some other big grapic-card manufacturer).
Anyway the matrox have really rotten 3D-capabilities but
who cares when you put an orchid 3Dfx next to it ?
The biggest advantage with Matorx Millenium is:
Great Drivers and Great support.
(can't say that about diamond... I had a Stealth before...
I can only say I'm a LOT happier now).
Bruce Ferris
bd wrote:
>
> I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
> Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
> well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
I have recently bought a copy of Linux with XFree86 included on the CD
for my brother. The documentation specifically states that it will not
support any Matrox card.
> Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not having 3D
> capability on Matrox?
In Win95, though, I would definitely say that the Matrox is a better
card. I had a Diamond 3D, and I thought the card sucked big time, so I
went and got a Mystique. This card flys.
Susan
>The biggest advantage with Matrox Millennium is:
>Great Drivers and Great support.
>(can't say that about diamond... I had a Stealth before...
>I can only say I'm a LOT happier now).
How do you figure Matrox's "Great support"? If you are comparing
them to Diamond it may be easy to do. Has Diamond support improved at
all in the last 6 months? I would reconsider them again if their
drivers and support was now good. I have some email in to Matrox
technical support and will soon learn if they know how to correspond
with an upset customer or not.
Matrox questions:
1. Communicate. Don't ignore my email again.
2. Are you aware that locating the Millennium in PCI slot 1 on
SuperMicro P5STE seems to cure infrequent system lockups - at least
from my point of view?
3. You have come out with a number of driver and BIOS updates
recently. Is there any document describing what has been changed or
what necessitated these revisions?
4. In your latest BIOS 2.3 the Readme file describing the BIOS
upgrade is buried inside a condensed setup.exe file and has a ".set"
extension. What are you trying to prove by this?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is where Matrox
needs to be patient and work with me. For all I know ".set" is the
French equivalent to the ".txt" extension and they really expect me to
install all the Millennium support software even if I don't need them.
Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Arnold Lee
i don't know about Unix (u unix freaks... ;)
but i have tried out the STB velocity 3d (Diamond stealth 3d 3000
clone), matrox mystique, and matrox millenium. The velocity and 3d 3000
both have the new s3 chipset (Virge VX) which IS as fast as MGA's 64 bit
accelerator, and they both come w/ 4 megs EDO vram, expandable only on
the STB to 8 megs (the other 4 are dram). I use my pc for 3d movies and
rendering (lightwave 3d 5.0) and the STB has given me the MOST
performance speedwise.
unfort, don't expect these new 3d cards to accelerate most games/apps.
the games don't have the coding to make use of the new 3d chipsets
unless adapted, and so yo umay find that Tomb raider or mechwarrior is
as fast on your P120 w/ 3d as your brother's P90 w/ the pathetic #9 GXE
pro...
as for 3d apps, the STB and diamond 3d 3000 support openGL, so i'm
happy. i am not sure if the millenium does, but when rendering, the
extra hardware on my new STB decreases rendering time incredibly.
Helen A. Kennedy
In article <Pine.HPP.3.95.96121...@kobra.csd.uu.se>,
Kaj Kjellgren <d93...@csd.uu.se> wrote:
>
>The biggest advantage with Matorx Millenium is:
>Great Drivers and Great support.
>(can't say that about diamond... I had a Stealth before...
>I can only say I'm a LOT happier now).
>
I would concer with the above statement 100%. No matter what diamond has to
offer their support sucks big time. I will never purchase another diamond
card or a computer that contains a diamond card. Even their windows support
sucks big time.
Go with Matrox it has much better support period. Folks are so concerned
about a few dumb benchmarks, but when you don't have a decent driver for
your OS it does not matter what the benchmarks are!
Later,
Helen
hken...@ncat.edu
John Oliver
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:06:49 GMT, Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) wrote:
>On 15 Dec 1996 00:53:07 GMT, "Robert J. Murphree" <murp...@vvm.com>
>wrote:
>>Wrong again, ever heard of the Orchid R3D and the Diamond Monster3D?
>
>To be honest, I haven't heard much about them. Can you tell me if
>those cards support hardware Z-buffers, stereo viewing, hardware alpha
>blending, hardware tri-linear texturemapping, hardware lighting?
They're *supposed* to support all that nifty stuff...
*****************************************************
Please email responses.
My "reply-to" address has been altered
to foil bulk-emailers. To reply to this
message, remove the asterisk from the
end of my email address.
"If I thought you needed an opinion, I'd give you one!"
John Oliver
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:30:19 GMT, p...@mail.utexas.edu (Paul Erickson)
wrote:
>Two-chip designs went out of style with the Diamond
>Viper VLB's. (in 2-D cards anyway)
Really? The Imagine 128 uses a Cirrus Logic chip for DOSm, from what
I've seen. *Killer* Windows performance, but hang up your hat on
DOS...
Will
I posted this question previously in other newsgroups, but got zilch for
response. The flurry that this topic has stirred up here has given me hope
for a response this time.
Let me start off by saying that I am a happy, but open-minded, owner of a
Matrox Millenium with 4MB of WRAM (220 MHz RAMDAC version). With the
future-minded purpose of building a new system from a P6SNF board, I am
evaluating video cards. I like my Millenium, but I am intrigued by the
promise of better 3D capabilities than it has. While I understand there is
no standard for 3D, I also understand that many and even most of the 3D
apps that are and will be written will be done for Win95+ or WinNT. I
reason that this will mean that if the cards support Direct3D, regardless
of chipset they will be able to support hardware 3D acceleration for any
Direct3D-enabled application. I could be wrong??? (Tell me if I am.)
Are there owners out there that can send benchmarks in addition to personal
evaluations for their cards to compare them? I am not particularly
interested in the Stealth 3D 2000 series or the STB Velocity 3D. I am not
a big fan of STB and I am not impressed with DRAM cards (like the 3D 2000).
In fact, I think the fallacy of the comparisons in this thread lies in the
comparison of a WRAM (dual-ported mem) card like the Millenium to a DRAM,
albeit EDO, (single-ported mem) card like the Stealth 3D 2000. The Stealth
3D 3000 would be not only be more in the price class of the Millenium, but
also a better performer in that it uses VRAM (dual-ported). It also uses
the Virge/VX chipset, as opposed to the standard Virge chipset. So, to
boil this down to brass tacks, I would like to see numbers comparing the
Stealth 3D 3000 to the Millenium. I'd also welcome personal evaluations,
as I would want the same high level of attention to driver development and
support from Diamond, were I to switch, as I have received from Matrox.
I thank all responders in advance and thanks for your time!
Cheers!
Will
wn...@epix.net
Shane
Btw, for those of you that don't know, v2.3 of the bios is out for the
millennium. I just found out today myself. I also updated my
drivers. I can't seem to find any release notes anywhere though.
Either way, it did fix some problems I used to have with the old
drivers. I've got a wincast/tv card and the old mga drivers (bios?)
used to crash, I had to use some alternative drivers that came with
the wincast card. However, the new drivers work just dandy. Have to
say I'm pleased.
I used to own a Diamond 3200v VRAM card. Drivers sucked. Support
sucked. It's slower than the Matrox too. I have to say that I've
been nothing but happy with my matrox.
On 15 Dec 1996 18:21:43 -0500, hken...@mercury.ncat.edu (Helen A.
Don
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:19:24 GMT, p...@mail.utexas.edu (Paul Erickson)
wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:32:07 GMT, Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) wrote:
>
>>Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards.
>
>According to what benchmark and what resolution? Here's something I
>grabbed off PC Magazine Online: (11/16/96)
>It doesn't seem to agree with your analysis.
>
>2-D Performance Analysis
>The best-performing 2-D board in this roundup also includes 3-D
>features. On this year's Windows 2-D graphics benchmark tests, which
>include our new ZD Business Winstone 97 and ZD Business Graphics
>WinMark 97 tests, the overall performance winner was the Diamond
>Stealth 3D 2000XL. This $180 board, equipped with 4MB of EDO DRAM,
>outpaced every other product on our Graphics WinMark tests at both
>tested resolutions, and it was also at the top on our new Winstone 97
>tests, virtually tying the Matrox Millennium, a long-time 2-D
>performance leader. The Diamond board proved as much as 28 percent
>faster than the Genoa Phantom 3D and the Spider
> Tarantula 3D, two of the ten boards we tested that are based on the
>same S3 ViRGE chip that the Diamond board uses.
>
> The two boards based on the Tseng Labs ET6000葉he Jazz G-Force 128
> and the VideoLogic GrafixStar 600用roduced above-average Graphics
> WinMark scores, about 10 percent behind the Diamond board. On the
> Business Winstone tests, that gap closed to about 2 percent.
>
>
>
>My note... as far as games go the ET6000 cards are the fastest DOS
>cards in the world and easily kill the Millenium in MPEG/motion video
>playback. The ViRGE cards also handily beat the Millenium in video
>playback as well.
> ________________________
> ____Paul R. Erickson____
>__ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES INC(DE)__
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Univ. of Texas/Austin
> Graduate School of Business
> MBA 1998 Marketing
>
>"The meek shall inherit the earth only when
> we're good and done with it, and with them."
> -Fred Rexer, G.I.
Hmmm, and do you believe everything you read in ZIFF davis
publications? Funny I work for an OEM manufacturer and we have beens
selling stealth 3d cards for several months know, it's not a bad card.
A quick tip for win95 users, use the standard S3 virge drivers,
Diamonds drivers seem to be causing us some problems. I still wouldn't
trade this card for either my Millenium, or my Mystique. I prefer to
buy vodeo card's from real video card manufacturers, meaning they
produce their own drivers and chipsets, and don't depend on other
companies to do it for them. Diamond screwed me one time to many with
the Diamond Viper SE, and their excuse is that Weitek stopped
supporting it, they are know trying to actually write the driver on
their own, and doing a miserable job of it. Know if they developed
their own chipsets and drivers in the first place problems like this
wouldn't ocur. And as far as ZIFF davis publications go, everytime I
read one of their reviews, I kind of half expect someone to call and
try to sell me the golden gate bridge. Lets face it if a certain
company is spending a million dollars on advertising in youre
magazine, are you going to give them a bad review. Learn how to read
between the lines.
all flames ignored.
Shane
On Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:21:45 GMT, nct...@cistron.nl (Nico Coesel)
wrote:
I have to disagree. The version of the XF86_SVGA server that I
currently run will support displays in 16 bpps (64k), maybe even
32bpps (I don't know, I didn't check). But I run the XF86_SVGA server
at 16 bpps at 1024x768. My xbench marks are much faster than the
ET6000 based cards I've seen on the xbench site.
Just make sure you get a retail version of the millennium. The OEM
versions come with a 175 MHz RAMDAC instead of a 220 MHz one.
>r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>
>>I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
>>Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
>>well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
Paul Erickson
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 05:12:14 GMT, od...@interaccess.com (Don) wrote:
nd
>try to sell me the golden gate bridge. Lets face it if a certain
>company is spending a million dollars on advertising in youre
>magazine, are you going to give them a bad review. Learn how to read
>between the lines.
>
>all flames ignored.
Too bad.. try benching the S3d 2000 XL with the Diamond drivers vs.
the 10/26 (? or 10/29) drivers from S3. The Diamond drivers are
clearly faster.. And at least on the two installations I've done,
and for my own dad as well, those 12/96 drivers have not crashed a
single time, stability is not a problem even with on the fly res
switching.
So its not an issue of reading between the lines, it's an issue of
seeing and sampling what's actually out there in the present instead
of letting grudges from the past guide you around the market, which is
just as fallacious.
Hartmut Niemann
"Robert J. Murphree" <murp...@vvm.com> writes:
>I always hate to see mis-information posted by people who don't know any
>better. Allow me to make a few corrections here:
Mee too, mee too!
[Lots of 'my graphics card is faster than your graphics card' stuff deleted]
>The Millennium's 3D capability is 1st generation and might actually be
>slower than todays cheap 2D/3D solutions. But if you run Linux, then the
>Matrox Mystique would probably be your best bet. Do yourself a favor and
>don't trust everything you read on the Usenet. There are people who post
>crap they know nothing about.
The Mystique is currently (as of today, http://www.bf.rmit.edu.au/~ajv/faq.htm),
not supported by XFree.
Would it be unfair to this card to say that it is not the best thing to buy
until XFree supports it?
The Mystique is not the best bet. Not yet.
And depending on what you do it will probably never be.
Hartmut
Hartmut Niemann
p...@mail.utexas.edu (Paul Erickson) writes:
>On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:43:20 GMT, Tired of S
>>>Do you even own a Millennium? It does not have an OAK chip for vga. The
>>>vga is built into the Millenniums Acc. Chip.
>>
>>Do you own a millennium? The VGA frontend is an OAK OTI-087.
>Really. Very interesting that Matrox themselves says that the VGA core
>is integrated into the main MGA chip. Call them yourself.
This is no contradiction.
It could be (I don't know) that the OAK _Logic_ is built into the Millennium
chip, as one would try to reuse a proven design for this. (Why reinvent
the wheel?)
You can include complete ARM and 486 cpu cores into ASICs, if you want to.
Hartmut.
Bryan Fuller
Here's my opinion, based on facts. :)
It depends on what yer looking for. One thing you have to remember is
that for something to use a 3D accelerator, it must be written
specifially to use it. Go buy the most expensive 3d card you can find,
go load up Doom, and it's not going to accelerate it. It may run fast,
but that's probably because it's overall a fast card. Anyways ---
If you are looking for fast overall video, I recommend the Stealth 3D
2000. The 2D is one of the fastest out there (faster than the
Millineum), and is also inexpensive. If you are concerned with the 3D
accel, the Stealth isn't exactly the fastest, but it's not too bad. If
you want the absolute best of both sides, I recommend this card along
with a 3dFX. I own a Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 (that I bought for $115),
and I bought it because it's one of the fastest 2d boards out there, and
when the time comes that I want REAL 3d support, I'll go get a 3dfx
board.
--
L8rz!
---
Bryan Fuller - www.zipcon.net/~wabba/mustangs.html - '68 "GT351" Mustang
#Bob...@pacbell.net
>In article <Pine.HPP.3.95.96121...@kobra.csd.uu.se>,
>Kaj Kjellgren <d93...@csd.uu.se> wrote:
>>
>>The biggest advantage with Matorx Millenium is:
>>Great Drivers and Great support.
>>(can't say that about diamond... I had a Stealth before...
>>I can only say I'm a LOT happier now).
>>
>
>I would concer with the above statement 100%. No matter what diamond has to
>offer their support sucks big time. I will never purchase another diamond
>card or a computer that contains a diamond card. Even their windows support
>sucks big time.
>
>Go with Matrox it has much better support period. Folks are so concerned
>about a few dumb benchmarks, but when you don't have a decent driver for
>your OS it does not matter what the benchmarks are!
>
>Later,
>
>Helen
>hken...@ncat.edu
>
Ditto!!
I too had a Diamond Stealth 64 Vram VLB card in my past machine and it
took Diamond forever to come up with decent drivers and then when the
drivers were released, they were buggy and I had to go back to the
original Windows95 drivers. I too went with Matrox. Had a small
problem however that we are still working with their tech support and
that is if you have a gray or light colored background, you will see a
slight humbar running top to bottom -- not really too bad but Matrox
has been on the ball w/emails etc. trying to resolve this problem.
Bob
Chester Wong
>Either way, it did fix some problems I used to have with the old
>drivers. I've got a wincast/tv card and the old mga drivers (bios?)
>used to crash, I had to use some alternative drivers that came with
How does the wincast/tv card work with the Matrox? Wait, is that the card
that Matrox sells or another manufacturer sells? I don't really want a
MPEG decoder just to see video. Anyway, if you people really want 3-D
performance, get a Delta Glint chip based card....hehe. I for one am
looking into this.....how does 8-16 megs of VRAM and 8-16 mes of EDO RAM
sound to you?
Mustang
Can someone post the location for the v2.3 bios and updated drivers for the
Millenium? Would appreciate it.
Mustang sends
Shane <Tired of Spam Mail> wrote in article
<32b4bd6...@news.earthlink.net>...
> Btw, for those of you that don't know, v2.3 of the bios is out for the
> millennium. I just found out today myself. I also updated my
> drivers. I can't seem to find any release notes anywhere though.
>
> Either way, it did fix some problems I used to have with the old
> drivers. I've got a wincast/tv card and the old mga drivers (bios?)
> used to crash, I had to use some alternative drivers that came with
> the wincast card. However, the new drivers work just dandy. Have to
> say I'm pleased.
>
> I used to own a Diamond 3200v VRAM card. Drivers sucked. Support
> sucked. It's slower than the Matrox too. I have to say that I've
> been nothing but happy with my matrox.
>
Bruno Bazille
Hi,
Shane <Tired of Spam Mail> a écrit dans l'article
<32b328d9...@news.earthlink.net>...
> Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards. There
IMHO, twice is exagerated, especially in 2D...
> really isn't any 'real 3D' cards on the market. Most '3D' cards on
Wrong. Did you hear something about OpenGL ?
Bye !
David Stryker
bd wrote:
>
> I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
> Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
> well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
>
> capability on Matrox?
ok i'll throw in my 2 cents. I have 3 systems that are similar. One has
ATI Win Turbo 4meg VRam, One has Matrox Millinium 2Meg WRam and one has
the Diamond 2000 3D. For gaming I think the Diamond is the way to go.
The Matrox is also pretty good and I have been pretty happy with it. My
latest system has the Diamond board. I chose it over the Matrox because
of prior experiance with Diamond and Lack of availability of the
Mystiqe. I think I made a pretty good choice. All my games fly with this
board and I have found nothing to complain about in any aplication. The
price was right and the performance is there. PS the ATI is a piece of
crap, but it's on my wife system and she couldn't care less :)
Dave
Mark Wilcutts
Seems like this discussion is in every newsgroup except where it should
be: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.video
Can we please move the discussion there?
Followups set accordingly.
--
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Bryan Fuller wrote:
> Here's my opinion, based on facts. :)
>
> It depends on what yer looking for. One thing you have to remember is
> that for something to use a 3D accelerator, it must be written
> specifially to use it. Go buy the most expensive 3d card you can find,
[snip]
Brian C. Hahne
Not sure if it was mentioned yet, I didn't get the original post...
But the Millenium, when booted comes up as the Oak Technology VGA card.
The most I could get out of it was 16 colors, though I think you can get
256. Just take that, go to Matrox's home page and get the latest drivers
so you use MGADESK or something like that... and it works great!
I have used both video cards, and prefer the Millenium. Matrox drivers
DO ship w/ win95 (version 1.0 drivers)... but I would NOT use them.
Matrox even suggests on their homepage that they are crap...
I use the newest Matrox, release 11/12/96 or somethinglike that, and I
like the results for acceleration, color, 3d, etc on that millenium
better than the Stealth..
just an opinion though. not sure why it comes up as Oak tech either...
just install the drivers and it goes away though...
Paul Irvine
Shane (TiredofSpamMail) wrote:
: On 15 Dec 1996 00:53:07 GMT, "Robert J. Murphree" <murp...@vvm.com>
: wrote:
: [deletion]
: >Wrong again, ever heard of the Orchid R3D and the Diamond Monster3D?
: To be honest, I haven't heard much about them. Can you tell me if
: those cards support hardware Z-buffers,
Yes.
: stereo viewing,
Not sure...
: hardware alpha blending,
Yep. Multi-pass.
: hardware tri-linear texturemapping,
Yep.
: hardware lighting?
Yep.
: [deletion]
: Shane
Kaj Kjellgren
The Matrox Millenium supports Open GL.
I'm not sure about the Mystique...
However the 3D-acceleration of the Millenium isn't extremely fast
(it is a bit old) and the new 3D-accelerators are, naturally, faster.
BUT ! The combination Millenium and an Orchid 3Dfx is almost unbeatable
(to that price at least).
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Arnold Lee wrote:
> i don't know about Unix (u unix freaks... ;)
> but i have tried out the STB velocity 3d (Diamond stealth 3d 3000
> clone), matrox mystique, and matrox millenium. The velocity and 3d 3000
> both have the new s3 chipset (Virge VX) which IS as fast as MGA's 64 bit
> accelerator, and they both come w/ 4 megs EDO vram, expandable only on
> the STB to 8 megs (the other 4 are dram). I use my pc for 3d movies and
> rendering (lightwave 3d 5.0) and the STB has given me the MOST
> performance speedwise.
> unfort, don't expect these new 3d cards to accelerate most games/apps.
> the games don't have the coding to make use of the new 3d chipsets
> unless adapted, and so yo umay find that Tomb raider or mechwarrior is
> as fast on your P120 w/ 3d as your brother's P90 w/ the pathetic #9 GXE
> pro...
> as for 3d apps, the STB and diamond 3d 3000 support openGL, so i'm
> happy. i am not sure if the millenium does, but when rendering, the
> extra hardware on my new STB decreases rendering time incredibly.
>
> Bruce Ferris wrote:
> >
> > bd wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
> > > Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
> > > well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
> >
> > I have recently bought a copy of Linux with XFree86 included on the CD
> > for my brother. The documentation specifically states that it will not
> > support any Matrox card.
> >
> > > Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not having 3D
> > > capability on Matrox?
> >
Ed Wilk
I like the fact that Matrox has updated the Win95 drivers & Bios about 6
times since July. Diamond 1 beta for months & finnally have updated
drivers. I love my Millenium!
Ed
ang...@unm.edu
I agree with you. Diamond's support sucks. I paid over $250 a couple
years ago for one of their Diamond Viper Pro PCI 2meg VRAM only to find
later that their drivers for Windows 95 don't work. On top of that,
they have a trade-in program that practically gives almost no credit for
the Diamond Viper. Next time I buy a video card, it won't be a Diamond.
Don wrote:
> ... I prefer to
> buy vodeo card's from real video card manufacturers, meaning they
> produce their own drivers and chipsets, and don't depend on other
> companies to do it for them. Diamond screwed me one time to many with
> the Diamond Viper SE, and their excuse is that Weitek stopped
> supporting it, they are know trying to actually write the driver on
> their own, and doing a miserable job of it. Know if they developed
> their own chipsets and drivers in the first place problems like this
> wouldn't ocur.
--
Alexander P. Nguyen ang...@unm.edu
Residence Center 1415
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131
John Sheehy
Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) writes:
>On Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:21:45 GMT, nct...@cistron.nl (Nico Coesel)
>wrote:
>
>I have to disagree. The version of the XF86_SVGA server that I
>currently run will support displays in 16 bpps (64k), maybe even
>32bpps (I don't know, I didn't check). But I run the XF86_SVGA server
>at 16 bpps at 1024x768. My xbench marks are much faster than the
>ET6000 based cards I've seen on the xbench site.
>
>Just make sure you get a retail version of the millennium. The OEM
>versions come with a 175 MHz RAMDAC instead of a 220 MHz one.
I am using the XF 3.2 SVGA server with a 4 meg Millenium, and I use it
in up to 2048x1536 interlaced in 8 bit mode, and 1152*864 in 32 bit
mode. It does 8, 16, 24, and 32 bit modes for certain, and maybe 15,
but I haven't tried (nor do I plan to, unless I get really bored).
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Bonker
How can you dis' a graphics card for not supporting 'Xfree' ? What the fuck
is Xfree anyway ??? Something lame to do with Unix/Linux/everythingelseix I
assume ?
Bonker.
>Hartmut Niemann <nie...@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de> wrote in >article
<592vls$b...@rznews.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>...
ho
In article <32B5BB...@conterra.com>,
Brian C. Hahne <bri...@conterra.com> wrote:
> just an opinion though. not sure why it comes up as Oak tech either...
>just install the drivers and it goes away though...
The first release of Windows 95 (August 1995) incorrectly detects the
Matrox Millenniun as an Oak video card and as a PCI VGA under System
Properties->Other. The latest release of Windows 95 called OSR2
correctly detects as a Matrox Millennium. If you're running the Auguest
1995 Windows 95 make sure you delete those two entries mentioned above.
Paul Erickson
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:44:23 -0800, "Ed Wilk" <edge...@msn.com>
wrote:
>I like the fact that Matrox has updated the Win95 drivers & Bios about 6
>times since July. Diamond 1 beta for months & finnally have updated
>drivers. I love my Millenium!
Yes but you always have a secondary source for drivers, S3, who
supports their chips for much longer than diamond... so in contrast
you always have two different sources for drivers no matter what... if
one stops supporting you'll most likely have the other to get ViRGE
drivers from...
Plus at least the Diamond Drivers showed noticeable speed improvement
in truecolor modes, unlike the Millenium's updates (just installed the
11/29 is it? or whatever the latest on their site is).
What would make a big deal is if the new Diamond drivers didn't
actually do anything. Apparently some folks are having trouble
installing Direct X 3 with it though so they're not faultless.
________________________
____Paul R. Erickson____
__ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES INC(DE)__
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Univ. of Texas/Austin
Graduate School of Business
MBA 1998 Marketing
All that is required is that you should go as hard as ever you can.
..The rest belongs to fate."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Don
The millenium is an alredy awesome card, if you want 3d I would look
at some of the new 3d add on cards based on the virite chipset, which
is what was used to develope direct 3d in the first place. Then you
will have the best of both worlds, award winning 2d graphics, and
awesome 3d. From what I've seen on these cards so far, it's enough to
make most of us Mystiqe and S3 virge users, beg for mercy.
Don
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 05:11:07 GMT, p...@mail.utexas.edu (Paul Erickson)
wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 05:12:14 GMT, od...@interaccess.com (Don) wrote:
>nd
>>try to sell me the golden gate bridge. Lets face it if a certain
>>company is spending a million dollars on advertising in youre
>>magazine, are you going to give them a bad review. Learn how to read
>>between the lines.
>>
>>all flames ignored.
>
>
>Too bad.. try benching the S3d 2000 XL with the Diamond drivers vs.
>the 10/26 (? or 10/29) drivers from S3. The Diamond drivers are
>clearly faster.. And at least on the two installations I've done,
>and for my own dad as well, those 12/96 drivers have not crashed a
>single time, stability is not a problem even with on the fly res
>switching.
>
>So its not an issue of reading between the lines, it's an issue of
>seeing and sampling what's actually out there in the present instead
>of letting grudges from the past guide you around the market, which is
>just as fallacious.
> ________________________
No, it's based on the 100 or so tech support calls, as well as the 25
or so systems I repair on a weekly basis. We sell about 300 stealth 3d
2000 video cards every week. It's not based on one instalation for
myself, and another for daddy. No we havent had an major lockup
problems just lots of little bizzar driver conflicts causing anoying
things like the start button in win95B becoming blacked out after
closing a program. For the $77 a piece we pay for them, their not bad.
(Don't anybody ask I will not get one for you.) Computers are very
complex and what one person experiences, isn't necesarily what someone
else will experience. Most of my experiance is based on systems with
FIC PT2000, PT2003, PA2002(yuck), PT2006, PA2005, and of course my own
Supermicro P55T2S. Actually didn't see the problem with my Supermicro
Board, however the performance wasn't as well rounded as My Mystiqe
card. Lets just agree to disagree, and leave it at that. Besides this
thread is getting too long and doesn't really belong in this
newsgroup. And I'm sure their are people out there with Matrox Mystiqe
cards that are having problems also which could be caused by any
number of things, memory, soundcard, ethernet card, or keyboard/chair
just to name a few. ;-)
Olivier Trullier
All the technical discussions about benchmarks and stuff are maybe great
but there's no practical information for new buyers like me in here!
I understand both video chips are supported by XFree3.2 (right?)
Are they beta versions?
Which one is best regarding compatibility?
Is it worth paying more for a millenium than for a Diamond Stealth 3D 2000?
Could someone please state some facts and regarding Linux only?
I don't think remarks about drivers for Win95 belong to this newsgroup.
Thanks in advance,
Olivier
.
Personally, I feel that you get what you pay for. The stealth 3D card is
good, but it isn't top of the line performance in either 3D or 2D. I
suggest get the Matrox millenium and the orchid righteous 3D add-on board.
This will give highend 3D and highend 2D Acceloration. This would markout
at the top for 2D and reach about the top in 3D in almost every 3D test
run. Go with the 4MB Millenium...then later you could add another 4MB or
add MPEG support...Personally I had a Viper Card and it suited me fine...it
wasn't built for Windows 95 like many older cards, hence they had the need
to discontinue it as with many products...hardware needs change every 3-5
months, don't expect that what you have now will run the programs and games
3-5 years down the road...it won't happen...unless you have a decked out
Pentium Pro 200.
Kaj Kjellgren
Check out http://sysdoc.pair.com , there you will find
real-world comparisons between the card of your choice.
The systems in the top all includes the Orchid 3Dfx-card
and most of the systems have a Matrox Millenium as a 2D-card.
As I said before, Matrox Millenium together with an Orchid 3Dfx
seems to give the best results. However, things will probably
change fast when MMX and AGP comes into the picture next year.
#...@pacbell.net
On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:02:01 +0100, Kaj Kjellgren <d93...@csd.uu.se>
wrote:
>
>Check out http://sysdoc.pair.com , there you will find
>real-world comparisons between the card of your choice.
>The systems in the top all includes the Orchid 3Dfx-card
>and most of the systems have a Matrox Millenium as a 2D-card.
>
>As I said before, Matrox Millenium together with an Orchid 3Dfx
>seems to give the best results. However, things will probably
>change fast when MMX and AGP comes into the picture next year.
>
>
Is the Orchid 3Dfx an add-on type board and will it plug into a
Millenium?
Thanks
Ed Wilk
Diamond pissed me off about the way they left all of us Viper owners with
NO accelerated drivers for Win95, so I just don't trust them anymore.
Every time I upgrade the drivers for my Millenium the WinMark 96 scores get
better. Using the latest drivers (3.18) v2.0 bios & 2Megs I get a score of
42.9 (800x600x16 bit).
(basic system)
Asus P55TVP4(v1.2) w/512k PB
AMD K5-PR133 CPU
64m EDO 60ns
Matrox Millenium w/2m
Paul Erickson <p...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in article
<32ba1a0d...@news.cc.utexas.edu>...
Mark Vojkovich
Both have preliminary support in XFree 3.2. Both are considered
beta. Both are only partially accelerated in 3.2 so they are a little
slow compared to well supported S3 and Mach64 cards. The S3-Virge
server (Stealth 3D) supports 8 and 16bpp. The mga driver in the
svga server (Millenium) supports all color depths including
packed-pixel 24bpp. The Millenium has the potential to be a better
X performer though and the next XFree beta will show the Millenium
to be the fastest card that runs under XFree.
MArk.
Kenny Dope presents...
In article <58v0uh$f...@news.metrobbs.com>, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
}I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
}Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
}well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
}
}capability on Matrox?
I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me. Well,
one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction. No
chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products. Screw
'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
Ben Myers
Not sure that either will work at all under Linux. But I do know that
the slightly older Diamond Stealth 64 2MB VRAM PCI card absolutely
does run with Linux, because I sold a satisfied Linux-using customer
some of them.
And I have brand new shrink-wrapped Diamond Stealth 64 2MB VRAM PCI
cards in plain white OEM boxes (but with full Diamond retail
functionality) for $110 + shipping.
Ben Myers
Spirit of Performance, Inc.
73 Westcott Road
Harvard, MA 01451
tel: 508-456-3889
fax: 508-456-3937
MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.
Member BBB.
Pooh Pooh
Yes to both, I think. The 3Dfx is not a video card by itself. It must
work through a video card, be it a Millenium or something else. I heard
it's great. I'm thinking of getting one myself.
David S. Becker
ho <p...@rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote in article <595ah1$p...@gondor.sdsu.edu>...
I'm not sure I was say it was 'incorrect' in detecting it as an Oak video
card, just incomplete... There IS a 32-bit Oak VGA card on that board, for
use with DOS apps that don't specifically support the Millennium, etc.
Windows just stopped prematurely, when it saw the Oak VGA portion of the
card, not realizing that it was MORE than just an OAK card. :)
--
David S. Becker
ADP Dealer Services (Plaza R&D)
d...@plaza.ds.adp.com
(503)402-3236
Unknown
r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding between
>Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it works
>well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
>Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not having 3D
>capability on Matrox?
I would for the Hercules Dynamite 128 or STB Lightspeed 128 which is a
better price performance for me.
Alex Vul
Link http://www.matrox.com/mga
Mustang <mus...@kdn0.attnet.or.jp> wrote in article
<01bbeb94$18624080$997c4ca5@mustang>...
Can someone post the location for the v2.3 bios and updated drivers for the
Millenium? Would appreciate it.
Mustang sends
Dan Fryling
#B...@pacbell.net wrote:
It is a seperate PCI card which works with your existing video card
and acts as a pass thru device for 3d graphics support. It comes with
a cable that attaches to your graphics card..
Kaj Kjellgren
On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 #B...@pacbell.net wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:02:01 +0100, Kaj Kjellgren <d93...@csd.uu.se>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Check out http://sysdoc.pair.com , there you will find
> >real-world comparisons between the card of your choice.
> >The systems in the top all includes the Orchid 3Dfx-card
> >and most of the systems have a Matrox Millenium as a 2D-card.
> >
> >As I said before, Matrox Millenium together with an Orchid 3Dfx
> >seems to give the best results. However, things will probably
> >change fast when MMX and AGP comes into the picture next year.
> >
> >
> Is the Orchid 3Dfx an add-on type board and will it plug into a
> Millenium?
> Thanks
>
>
Yepp, and you can check it out at www.orchid.com.
Don Huang
If you are comparing the Millinium with Stealth 3D 3000 than I said get
Stealth 3D 3000. If you are looking at the 3D 2000, better get retail
boxed because it has higher RAMDAC and uses faster RAM chip than OEM/Bulk
pack.
Kenny Dope presents... <La-S...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5976n5$k...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>...
> In article <58v0uh$f...@news.metrobbs.com>, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
> }I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding
between
> }Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it
works
> }well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
> }
> }Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not
having 3D
> }capability on Matrox?
Gary L. Hennigan
NOTE: Followup line modified to just comp.os.linux.x
"Robert J. Murphree" <murp...@vvm.com> writes:
[stuff snipped]
> The Millennium's 3D capability is 1st generation and might actually be
> slower than todays cheap 2D/3D solutions. But if you run Linux, then the
> Matrox Mystique would probably be your best bet. Do yourself a favor and
> don't trust everything you read on the Usenet. There are people who post
> crap they know nothing about.
Do NOT buy the Mystique if you are planning to run linux+X in anything
other than VGA, or you want to shell out another $100+ for a
commercial X server. XFree does not currently support the Mystique and
it will likely be a while before it does. The millenium on the other
hand has decent support with minimal acceleration features under XFree
3.2, plus it has an active team doing development.
Jim Sharpe
Dan Fryling wrote:
>
> #B...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> It is a seperate PCI card which works with your existing video card
> and acts as a pass thru device for 3d graphics support. It comes with
> a cable that attaches to your graphics card..
>
> >Millenium?
How does the cable attach to the Millenium? I have a 2 Meg card
that has a 6 Meg memory upgrade (total of 8). I was under the
impression
that adding a memory upgrade to a Millenium precluded the use of some
or all of the other options (perhaps I'm thinking of the hardware
MPEG support).
.
.
.
.
.
.
Joe Pompei
So which driver has more acceleration (3D) features, Sealth 2/3k or
Millenium? Now or later?
Rick Lollis
p...@mail.utexas.edu (Paul Erickson) wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:32:07 GMT, Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) wrote:
>>Matrox Millennium is almost twice as fast as the diamond cards.
>According to what benchmark and what resolution? Here's something I
>grabbed off PC Magazine Online: (11/16/96)
>It doesn't seem to agree with your analysis.
>2-D Performance Analysis
>The best-performing 2-D board in this roundup also includes 3-D
>features. On this year's Windows 2-D graphics benchmark tests, which
>include our new ZD Business Winstone 97 and ZD Business Graphics
>WinMark 97 tests, the overall performance winner was the Diamond
>Stealth 3D 2000XL. This $180 board, equipped with 4MB of EDO DRAM,
>outpaced every other product on our Graphics WinMark tests at both
>tested resolutions, and it was also at the top on our new Winstone 97
>tests, virtually tying the Matrox Millennium, a long-time 2-D
>performance leader. The Diamond board proved as much as 28 percent
>faster than the Genoa Phantom 3D and the Spider
> Tarantula 3D, two of the ten boards we tested that are based on the
>same S3 ViRGE chip that the Diamond board uses.
> The two boards based on the Tseng Labs ET6000葉he Jazz G-Force 128
> and the VideoLogic GrafixStar 600用roduced above-average Graphics
> WinMark scores, about 10 percent behind the Diamond board. On the
> Business Winstone tests, that gap closed to about 2 percent.
>My note... as far as games go the ET6000 cards are the fastest DOS
>cards in the world and easily kill the Millenium in MPEG/motion video
>playback. The ViRGE cards also handily beat the Millenium in video
>playback as well.
> ________________________
> ____Paul R. Erickson____
>__ARCLIGHT ENTERPRISES INC(DE)__
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Univ. of Texas/Austin
> Graduate School of Business
> MBA 1998 Marketing
>"The meek shall inherit the earth only when
> we're good and done with it, and with them."
> -Fred Rexer, G.I.
yeah,yeah,yeah. i've got a diamond 3d 2000.it is a fast card.but
diamond support(?)non-existant!
Don Huang
Actually, you are comparing the wrong cards. You should compare with ATI's
RAGEII chipset, that is in their 3D models. ASUS makes one with sound
card, you should try it.
David Stryker <Stryk...@csionline.com> wrote in article
<32B59C...@csionline.com>...
> ok i'll throw in my 2 cents. I have 3 systems that are similar. One has
> ATI Win Turbo 4meg VRam, One has Matrox Millinium 2Meg WRam and one has
> the Diamond 2000 3D. For gaming I think the Diamond is the way to go.
> The Matrox is also pretty good and I have been pretty happy with it. My
> latest system has the Diamond board. I chose it over the Matrox because
> of prior experiance with Diamond and Lack of availability of the
> Mystiqe. I think I made a pretty good choice. All my games fly with this
> board and I have found nothing to complain about in any aplication. The
> price was right and the performance is there. PS the ATI is a piece of
> crap, but it's on my wife system and she couldn't care less :)
>
> Dave
>
>
Michael A. Wong
No the Orchid Righteous 3D is not an "ADD-ON" board to the existing
board. It sits in it's own PCI slot next to your existing 2D board and
you plug the output of your 2d into the Righteous and then the output of
the Righteous to your monitor. So this would make it technically a
"PASS-Thru" card. It only kicks in for either code that was writtin for
it (ie. 3dfx Voodoo ports of games) or apps that use Direct3D. Otherwise
all 2d functions revert back to your 2d card.
-Michael-
Mark Vojkovich
>So which driver has more acceleration (3D) features, Sealth 2/3k or
>Millenium? Now or later?
The Stealth 3D has more 3D features than the Millenium. But,
unfortunately, nothing under Linux can use the 3D features of
either of them yet.
Mark.
Mark Lewis
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On Tue, 17 Dec 96 23:24:02 GMT, Kenny Dope presents... <La-S...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[stuff deleted]
> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me. Well,
> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction. No
> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products. Screw
> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
Strange. Here in the UK I can pick up Matrox Millenium's over 20% cheaper
than Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 cards, with the Mystique being cheaper still.
Mark.
- --
.--------------------------{ From: Mark Lewis }--------------------------.
Software Engineer | http://www.city.ac.uk/nostra/
City University | PGP public key available by WWW, or by
London, England | fingering sl...@finger.city.ac.uk
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Kim Wetch
Kenny Dope presents... <La-S...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5976n5$k...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>...
> In article <58v0uh$f...@news.metrobbs.com>, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
> }I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding
between
> }Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it
works
> }well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
> }
> }Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not
having 3D
> }capability on Matrox?
>
>
> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me.
Well,
> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction.
No
> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products.
Screw
> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
>
You went to the wrong site. It's www.diamondmm.com
Lars Balker Rasmussen
La-S...@ix.netcom.com (Kenny Dope presents...) writes:
> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me.
> Well, one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under
> construction. No chance of getting drivers right now or even looking
> up their products. Screw 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but
> more expensive).
www.diamond.com is not _that_ Diamond. Check <URL:http://www.diamondmm.com/>
(Diamond Multimedia). Above average website, so THAT support-argument
doesn't hold.
I can't quite decide between a Millenium or a Stealth 3D 2000 myself.
They're pretty much equally priced in Denmark, both are now supported by
XFree86, and I reckon either can't really live without a 3dfx card, so
it's a hard choice :-)
Which _is_ better supported by XFree86? (also in a year...)
--
Lars Balker Rasmussen <URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>
Ein Reich -- Ein Volk -- Ein Emacs
zak
You would not if you say the Diamond or the Matrox next to either 128
card.
--
邢 唷��
Shane
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:48:02 GMT, cp...@columbia.edu (Chester Wong)
wrote:
>>Either way, it did fix some problems I used to have with the old
>>drivers. I've got a wincast/tv card and the old mga drivers (bios?)
>>used to crash, I had to use some alternative drivers that came with
>
>How does the wincast/tv card work with the Matrox? Wait, is that the card
>that Matrox sells or another manufacturer sells? I don't really want a
>MPEG decoder just to see video. Anyway, if you people really want 3-D
Works pretty well, doesn't hog much of anything. I've written to CDs
while watching TV on the wincast card. The only thing is that it
doesn't work in overlay mode (i.e. full screen only at 640x480). I've
called Hauppauge (the maker of the wincast card) and they said it was
due to the chipset used in the Matrox. I suspect it's a lack of
drivers or something.
Either way, it's not bad for $99 or $129 (for the dbx stereo version).
They've also come out with a FM tuner (in addition to the other stuff)
as well. I don't know how much that is. It's a PCI card; no need for
vga feature connector or anything.
>performance, get a Delta Glint chip based card....hehe. I for one am
>looking into this.....how does 8-16 megs of VRAM and 8-16 mes of EDO RAM
>sound to you?
Sounds terrible actually. More RAM doesn't actually improve speed.
Not significantly anyhow. It only allow you to have higher depth or
resolutions. AND, if you really need to display insane resolutions
and color depths, you won't want to use EDO RAM. You'll have a
bandwidth problem. Too much bandwidth will be used up in just
refreshing the screen.
When using higher resolutions and color depths, you'll want to go with
at least a VRAM if not WRAM. SGRAM is supposed to give you 10-15%
more bandwidth than EDO, but it'll also degrade rapidly as you
approach higher resolutions and color depths.
For most people, DRAM, EDO, or SGRAM will probably suffice. Game play
doesn't even begin to push the bandwidth.
Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
(especially when you run high res/color depths).
Shane
Kim Wetch
Rick Lollis <rickl...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<59a08m$5...@camel2.mindspring.com>...
Drivers for the 3D 2000 have been upgraded 3 times in the last two months.
The Byte Track, Inc.
>ذد à ،
p...@mail.utexas.edu
:>> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me. Well,
:>> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction. No
:>> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products. Screw
:>> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
:>
What kind of crack are you smoking? www.diamondmm.com has been operational for a
long time, and I have downloaded every single driver release for the Stealth 3D
from there since about June. You can get drivers and look up products no
problem.
J. Ogando
>
>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
How much did yours cost? 2mb or 4mb?
Si
Tired of Spam Mail (Shane) wrote:
>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
How about the Millenium IS the fastest 2D card ONLY when you run high
res/colour depth. Faster cards/possible faster cards include
Mystique, ANY cheapo ET6000, Diamond 3D 2000. Face facts, the card is
2 years old and simply past it now. I don't know why anyone would buy
one unless they had $$ to throw around or a 21" monitor.
And just what is this thread doing in Mainboard groups?? Trim the
crossposting!
/si
Shane
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:02:44 GMT, le...@tiac.net (J. Ogando) wrote:
>>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
>>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
>>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
>>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
>
>How much did yours cost? 2mb or 4mb?
I paid $175 for a 2mb retail millennium. It also came with some kodak
color software, Nascar, 3DFX. The firmware bios is flashable, and the
drivers lets you center your screen, correct color temperature, and
etc (utilities I didn't get with my diamond VRAM).
Shane
p...@mail.utexas.edu
:>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
:>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
:>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
:>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
:How about the Millenium IS the fastest 2D card ONLY when you run high
:res/colour depth. Faster cards/possible faster cards include
:Mystique, ANY cheapo ET6000, Diamond 3D 2000. Face facts, the card is
:2 years old and simply past it now. I don't know why anyone would buy
:one unless they had $$ to throw around or a 21" monitor.:
Could not have said it better myself. At 800x600x 24 bit and lower, the
Millenium is nowhere near invincible. In fact, fairly vincible. At 1024 and
1280 etc. it is still a standard for hi performance. Not at 800x600 and below,
however.
Shane
On Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:02:44 GMT, le...@tiac.net (J. Ogando) wrote:
>>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
>>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
>>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
>>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
>
Shane
D Sparrow
Apparently he went to www.diamond.com which seems to belong to SI
Diamond Technologies (whoever they are) and is under construction.
--
-- D Sparrow (dspa...@bigsky.net)
--"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark."
-Robert Heinlein
Bryan Althaus
J. Ogando (le...@tiac.net) wrote:
:
: >
: >Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
: >(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
: >and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
: >(especially when you run high res/color depths).
:
: How much did yours cost? 2mb or 4mb?
The 4MB board can be had easily for $249.00 USD which comes with software.
The board alone can be had for under $200 with a look at Computer Shopper..
Neal Rauhauser
I manage a network of PCs full of Diamond 2 meg PCI cards (hereafter
referred to as 'those damned things'). My personal workstation has a 4 meg
millenium in it. On the shelf, next to my PC, there are two of those damned
things - one with bad video ram, one with some sort of existential crisis.
Those are the ones I am stuck with - the other corpses went back to their
respective vendors. It would appear that Diamond has hired some of the
engineers that were at Conner when they were putting out 40 - 100 meg hard
disks *yuck*.
Give me Matrox or give me a TVI910 to look at :-)
>>>Personally, I'm more than happy with my millennium. If I want 3D
>>>(which I don't), I'll buy a dedicated 3D card. I've said it before,
>>>and I'll say it again; the millennium IS the fastest 2D card
>>>(especially when you run high res/color depths).
>>
>>How much did yours cost? 2mb or 4mb?
>
Gialt Huininga
p...@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
>
> :>> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me. Well,
> :>> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction. No
> :>> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products. Screw
> :>> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
> :>
>
> What kind of crack are you smoking? www.diamondmm.com has been operational for a
> long time, and I have downloaded every single driver release for the Stealth 3D
> from there since about June. You can get drivers and look up products no
> problem.
I think Diamond's driver support is very poor. I have a Stealth 64 Video
VRAM (3240XL, 2MB VRAM, 220 MHz RAM-DAC, S3 968), and it took them a
very long time to produce working W95 drivers. Now, it's the same with
NT 4.0. They say there is a driver on the NT 4.0 CD-ROM, but that's just
a standard low-performance general S3 driver, combined with a namestring
of the specific Diamond card you have. I.e. this driver will also be
used with a, brandless S3-Trio32 for example.
As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
HARD.
DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
--
Greetings / Met vriendelijke groet,
Gialt Huininga, KCG
"Never buy Diamond MM peripherals without consulting ..."
Paul Schikora
In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
>As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
>Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
>uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
>HARD.
>
>DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
No shit. Remember when the Viper was their top board. They finally came
out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
buying another Diamond card.
--
Paul F. Schikora
School of Business email: psch...@indiana.edu
Indiana University
Gil Hutcheson
There are some new drivers for the Weitek chip set on their website at
http://www.weitek.com
Hope this helps.
Joe Korty
In article <59nb4m$r...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>, psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Schikora) writes:
|> In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
|> Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
|> >As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
|> >Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
|> >uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
|> >HARD.
|> >
|> >DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
|>
|> No shit. Remember when the Viper was their top board. They finally came
|> out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
|> They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
|> anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
|> can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
|> do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
|> sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
|> buying another Diamond card.
Even for W95 their drivers suck. I have heard that none of the acceleration facilities
of the card are used unless you are in 8-bit color mode. I can believe it. the 2-sec
lockups and the slow redraws are very annoying .. and not present when i do the same
things under Linux. So i *Know* it is their drivers that suck, and not their hardware.
Diamond is clearly a lopsided company that puts all the effort the best people and hands
out all the glory & raises to the folks on the hardware side of the house, and leaves software
development down in the basement, ignored, done by minimum-wage half-wits. They would be
much better served with a more balanced investment.
future
On 24 Dec 1996 18:08:31 GMT, j...@tawny.csd.harris.com (Joe Korty)
wrote:
>In article <59nb4m$r...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>, psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Schikora) writes:
>|> In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
>|> Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
>|> >As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
>|> >Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
>|> >uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
>|> >HARD.
>|> >
>|> >DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
>|>
>|> No shit. Remember when the Viper was their top board. They finally came
>|> out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
>|> They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
>|> anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
>|> can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
>|> do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
>|> sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
>|> buying another Diamond card.
>
>
>Even for W95 their drivers suck.
Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine...
>I have heard that none of the acceleration facilities
>of the card are used unless you are in 8-bit color mode.
Complete and total bullshit. I have a Diamond Stealth 3-D 2000 I run
in true color (24-bit) mode with full acceleration. 11 MP/sec under
Wintune in true color, 13 in high color and 15 in 8-bit color. This
kind of variation is normal ... moving more pixels means slower
operations.
>Diamond is clearly a lopsided company that puts all the effort the best people and hands
>out all the glory & raises to the folks on the hardware side of the house, and leaves software
>development down in the basement, ignored, done by minimum-wage half-wits. They would be
>much better served with a more balanced investment.
YOU would better be served by doing something intelligent and
productive, instead of complaining, whining and bitching. You don't
like Diamond, don't buy Diamond.
Thomas Chao
Joe Korty wrote:
>
> Even for W95 their drivers suck. I have heard that none of the acceleration facilities
> of the card are used unless you are in 8-bit color mode. I can believe it. the 2-sec
> lockups and the slow redraws are very annoying .. and not present when i do the same
> things under Linux. So i *Know* it is their drivers that suck, and not their hardware.
>
> out all the glory & raises to the folks on the hardware side of the house, and leaves software
> development down in the basement, ignored, done by minimum-wage half-wits. They would be
> much better served with a more balanced investment.
I have been using ATI Graphics board since 1990. They always have the
drivers update to the latest OS very quick and fine. Matrox is also
another good choice, since they have good driver support. (I used them
in the office.)
Judge by the sales quantity of Diamond's card, their support is very,
very poor. I dropped their card from all my office machine purchase
already!
Thomas Chao
Johnny B.
On 20 Dec 1996 02:06:18 GMT, "Kim Wetch" <k...@sonic.net> wrote:
I'm in the same boat .But i'm looking to also in the future to get
Monster3d it suppose to work with any 2d video card ? I'm leaning to
Matrox if it works well with Dimonds monster,if not Ill get Diamond
stealth
>
>
>Kenny Dope presents... <La-S...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
><5976n5$k...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>...
>> In article <58v0uh$f...@news.metrobbs.com>, r...@tyrell.net (bd) wrote:
>> }I'm putting together a new system and having a tough time deciding
>between
>> }Diamond 3D and a Matrox video card. The most import thing is that it
>works
>> }well with Linux under XFree86 or other accerlerated X servers.
>> }
>> }Which is faster under Win95 (I assume Matrox is)? Is it worth not
>having 3D
>> }capability on Matrox?
>>
>>
>Well,
>> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction.
>No
>> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products.
>Screw
>> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
>>
>
rlin...@jumpnet.com
My current choice is the ET6000 4mb MDRAM cards....low priced, $199 for the
Hercules, and while it's not 3D, for all other situations it SCREAMS.
Not knowing exactly what the Intel AGP will be, I tend to stay with less expensive,
but sufficently fast cards for now...
Rick Lindsay, Lindsay Computer Systems, http://www.jump.net/~lcs/
Austin, Texas Voice: 512-719-5257 email: l...@jumpnet.com
Asus based systems, Asus Products. Caldera, OS/2, NT, Novell, SCO, Solaris
IBM BesTeam, Hewlett-Packard, Corollary, Farallon ISDN
Shane
Jesus, I'm so tired of all this video card banter. Here, goto:
http://sysdoc.pair.com/video.html
and learn everything you've ever wanted to know about video cards (and
probably things you didn't want to know).
Now stop all this ranting about what card is best when you have no
idea what you're talking about and have only read a PC mag review.
Shane
-- I wouldn't mind pain so much if it didn't hurt --
Visit http://home.earthlink.net/~shanec/
Bill Sapp
I'm still irritated/disgusted with Diamond for not ever providing
WIN95 drivers for the VIPER SE and other cards.....they do have
a beta for the VIPER SE now so at least they can say they have WIN95
drivers......
don't want DIAMOND anything.....
can't figure it out....they HAD a good reputation
Bill Sapp
wh...@mindspring.com
On 24 Dec 1996 18:08:31 GMT, j...@tawny.csd.harris.com (Joe Korty)
wrote:
In article <59nb4m$r...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>,
psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Schikora) writes:
|> In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
|> Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
|> >As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
|> >Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
|> >uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
|> >HARD.
|> >
|> >DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
|>
|> No shit. Remember when the Viper was their top board. They finally came
|> out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
|> They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
|> anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
|> can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
|> do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
|> sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
|> buying another Diamond card.
Even for W95 their drivers suck. I have heard that none of the
grin...@aol.com
That's weird, I have been using the 325b off their site for my S64 VRAM,
and have had not seen the "massive" problems described in this newsgroup.
There are problems with Microsoft's S3 drivers and the card, but those are
MS induced not Diamond induced.
Jim Smith
Paul Schikora wrote:
>
> In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
> Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
> >As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
> >Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
> >uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
> >HARD.
> >
> >DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
>
> No shit. Remember when the Viper was their top board. They finally came
> out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
> They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
> anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
> can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
> do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
> sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
> buying another Diamond card.
>
delivered a even 1/2'assed driver was so slow.. that snails moving
over sandpaper are faster. I run nt4 now and the driver is on the cd.
I also don't ever expect to see a 'updated' driver from them for nt.
I have played the wait & wait & wait on hold game with them only to
have them twice send me the wrong bios chip. From the time of my first
viper thru the stealth64, the pattern is verry clear to me. That
diamond only puts resources into there current top products. As soon
as a new one comes out, they shift there people to it. When 3d settles
down I expect to replace the diamond (at last) with anything but a
diamond. Maby even that new intel port spec. for video. Jim
btw The co. i work at does the same thing. Continuing engineering is
given a low priority and budget. Expecally for the 'old' products.
Unknown
Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
>I think Diamond's driver support is very poor. I have a Stealth 64 Video
>VRAM (3240XL, 2MB VRAM, 220 MHz RAM-DAC, S3 968), and it took them a
>very long time to produce working W95 drivers. Now, it's the same with
>NT 4.0. They say there is a driver on the NT 4.0 CD-ROM, but that's just
>a standard low-performance general S3 driver, combined with a namestring
>of the specific Diamond card you have. I.e. this driver will also be
>used with a, brandless S3-Trio32 for example.
>As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
>Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
>uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
>HARD.
>DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
You are absolutely correct, I got a Diamond Stealth 2001 card and its
GT driver cannot support playing software Mpeg and options card. They
say that a future release will have support for these options.
Meantime I had to use the slower S3 drivers provided by Diamond, I
waited for 5 months and not even a newer version of the drivers came
out. I heard that Diamond Stealth 2000 3D came out 3 versions of
drivers. I think Diamond only support new cards which they make, just
wait and see how they drop drivers support for the Stealth 2000 3D
when newer cards such as monster 3D came out.
che...@ix.netcom.com
On Tue, 24 Dec 1996 00:16:54 +0100, Gialt Huininga
<g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
>p...@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
>>
>> :>> I'm shopping around too. And it's between Matrox and Diamond for me. Well,
>> :>> one visit to Diamond's web site shows it's currently under construction. No
>> :>> chance of getting drivers right now or even looking up their products. Screw
>> :>> 'em, I'll go with Matrox-better support (but more expensive).
>> :>
>>
>> What kind of crack are you smoking? www.diamondmm.com has been operational for a
>> long time, and I have downloaded every single driver release for the Stealth 3D
>> from there since about June. You can get drivers and look up products no
>> problem.
>
>I think Diamond's driver support is very poor. I have a Stealth 64 Video
>VRAM (3240XL, 2MB VRAM, 220 MHz RAM-DAC, S3 968), and it took them a
>very long time to produce working W95 drivers. Now, it's the same with
>NT 4.0. They say there is a driver on the NT 4.0 CD-ROM, but that's just
>a standard low-performance general S3 driver, combined with a namestring
>of the specific Diamond card you have. I.e. this driver will also be
>used with a, brandless S3-Trio32 for example.
>
>As long as you have the newest videocard and uses the populairest OS,
>Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
>uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
>HARD.
>
>DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
>
>--
>Greetings / Met vriendelijke groet,
>
>Gialt Huininga, KCG
>"Never buy Diamond MM peripherals without consulting ..."
I have a P5STE with a Diamond Stealth 3D 2000XL with no problems. I
just downloaded a new drive (10 Dec 96) from www.diamondmm.com last
night. Installed without a hitch. This is my third Diamond product on
my third computer.
Scott McDonald
psch...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu (Paul Schikora) wrote:
>anymore?) and go boo-hoo, but give me a break. A large companmy like that
>can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
>do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
>sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
>buying another Diamond card.
>
>--
>Paul F. Schikora
>
Hear, hear!
personally, I find it incredible
that diamond manages to keep
dumping their products on the public...
the driver-of-the-week, and
the bug-of-the-moment are both
memories I'll carry forever of my
diamond video card ownership.
3-d is sort of in a transition stage,
with MMX-enhanced CPUS right around the
corner. For today, the Matrox Millenium
still gets my vote as "best all around"
card, particularly since they've reduced
their price points substantially. Sure,
the Millenium isn't the rage for 3-d as
certain direct-x 3d commands are NOT supported by
the Millenium's S3 on-chip instruction set (this
from the matrox website). For all-around PC
work though, the Millenium fits my comfort zone.
Pooh Pooh
Jim Smith wrote:
>
> Paul Schikora wrote:
> >
> > In article <32BF12...@rcondw.rug.nl>,
> > Gialt Huininga <g.j.m.h...@rcondw.rug.nl> wrote:
> > >Diamond makes drivers for you. But if you have a former top-card and/or
> > >uses a other (better ?) OS like NT or OS/2 they'll let you fall VERY
> > >HARD.
> > >
> > >DON'T BUY DIAMOND !!
> >
> > out w/ a BETA Win95 driver in July of this year, with nothing else since.
> > They point to Weitek's financial problems (are they even in business
> > can do better. I doubt they'll ever come out with final drivers, but they
> > do have this "great deal" where if you send them your Viper, they'll
> > sell you one of their new cards for retail. I can't imagine ever
> > buying another Diamond card.
> >
> > --
> > Paul F. Schikora
> > Indiana University
> Amen. I have a stealth64 video vram. And the speed at which diamond
> delivered a even 1/2'assed driver was so slow.. that snails moving
> over sandpaper are faster. I run nt4 now and the driver is on the cd.
> I also don't ever expect to see a 'updated' driver from them for nt.
> I have played the wait & wait & wait on hold game with them only to
> have them twice send me the wrong bios chip. From the time of my first
> viper thru the stealth64, the pattern is verry clear to me. That
> diamond only puts resources into there current top products. As soon
> as a new one comes out, they shift there people to it. When 3d settles
> down I expect to replace the diamond (at last) with anything but a
> diamond. Maby even that new intel port spec. for video. Jim
> btw The co. i work at does the same thing. Continuing engineering is
> given a low priority and budget. Expecally for the 'old' products.
That's just an economic reality. Limited resources must be shifted to
the areas where it will make money for the company. I also have the
Stealth64 VRAM and have been using S3 drivers from their site. Don't get
so caught up with trying to contact Diamond through the phone. Tech
support in almost any big company will be constantly busy, especially if
it's free (other than the phone bill). Try e-mail or just do some
research on your own. That's what the Internet is for.
Bill Patton
ang...@unm.edu wrote:
>
> I agree with you. Diamond's support sucks. I paid over $250 a couple
> years ago for one of their Diamond Viper Pro PCI 2meg VRAM only to find
> later that their drivers for Windows 95 don't work. On top of that,
> they have a trade-in program that practically gives almost no credit for
> the Diamond Viper. Next time I buy a video card, it won't be a Diamond.
>
> Don wrote:
> > ... I prefer to
> > buy vodeo card's from real video card manufacturers, meaning they
> > produce their own drivers and chipsets, and don't depend on other
> > companies to do it for them. Diamond screwed me one time to many with
> > the Diamond Viper SE, and their excuse is that Weitek stopped
> > supporting it, they are know trying to actually write the driver on
> > their own, and doing a miserable job of it. Know if they developed
> > their own chipsets and drivers in the first place problems like this
> > wouldn't ocur.
> --
> Alexander P. Nguyen ang...@unm.edu
> Residence Center 1415
> University of New Mexico
> Albuquerque, NM 87131
One of he things that amazes me is that there are not too many of you
that own both cards. In my personal benchmarks, in all of the tests that
IO own, the Diamond Stealth 3D (2mb) outperforms the Matrox MGA
Millenium (4mb) by a tremendous margin... I am running dual Pentium Pro
200's with NT and another Pentium Pro 200 (single) on WIN95 and any way
you slice it, the 3D outperforms anything in its class!
Bill Patton
Compaq Computer Corporation
Accredited Systems Engineer Program Manager
ko...@swbell.net
bpa...@netgate.compaq.com
Paul Wilcox
Bill, is this the official view of Compaq ? Since you are using a
tagline claiming to be a BIGSHOT there I thought I would (DID) forward
your message to them. If Compaq is OFFICIALLY endorsing Diamond products
over Matrox then I think people should know.
Robert Michael Roza, ABA
We can't help you guys are idiots and buy bad products. I origionally
bought a Diamond Stealth 64 Video 2001 w/ 2m and now have Diamond Stealth
3D 2000 series w/ 4M 35nS EDO. I have FULL support for BOTH cards.
Bill Patton <ko...@swbell.net> wrote in article
<32C5C0...@swbell.net>...
Shane
On Sat, 28 Dec 1996 18:50:07 -0600, Bill Patton <ko...@swbell.net>
wrote:
Just for my own peace of mind. PLEASE refrain from responding to this
thread. I'm tired of all this who's faster.
Let him be.
Shane