2557 days
Michael Erskine
Jess;
Dis is comp.os.linux.security, not grammar clas.
(oooopppss, did I spel that korecly?)
Durn, ah hop so.
Comments embedded.
>
> Tim Wilson:
> >Jack Hamilton:
> >>Frank McQuarry:
>
> >>>Spelling flames are lame.
>
> >>A point of view frequently adopted by people who can't spell.
>
> >Okay, so there are varying degrees of spelling skill. What's
> >the justification for the spelling flame again?
>
> Well, we wouldn't have any if people spelled correctly, would
> we? :-)
>
> I think it's a mistake to equate spelling corrections and
> spelling flames. There's a difference, rarely unacknowledged by
> the defensiveness commonly evoked, between "the right spelling
> is <whatever>" and "it's spelled <whatever> and you're a dolt".
sPelng is moot hear. ef u kin red wut ah m sayin n undrstan et
den mah speln's gud nuff. iffn you kaint red whut ahm ritin here
den mah speln's not gud nuff. if u wan tu kerrect evrybuddies
spellin go somwhur whur peopl giv a squat, cause dis herr grup
is fer folks whut wanna lern dat security stuff, see?
-m-
--
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become
actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits;
they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Frank Outlaw
Michael Erskine
Jess Anderson wrote:
>
> Michael Erskine:
>
> >sPelng is moot hear. ef u kin red wut ah m sayin n undrstan et
> >den mah speln's gud nuff. iffn you kaint red whut ahm ritin
> >here den mah speln's not gud nuff. if u wan tu kerrect
> >evrybuddies spellin go somwhur whur peopl giv a squat, cause
> >dis herr grup is fer folks whut wanna lern dat security stuff,
> >see?
>
> Shee-ut, man, i mus' be al messt up. i thot y'all jes talk
> bout roolz n'that, ya no? that security stuff, ain't that bout
> lockin' foks up? Hell, whod want a dum thing like that?
>
> --
> [] This is arrant pedantry, up with which I shall not put.
> [] -- Winston Churchill, 1874-1965
>
> [] ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu <http://www.jessanderson.org/> []
> [] Copyright 2001 Jess Anderson Madison, Wisconsin []
Angry Bob
this is a Jess Anderson scroll! it says:
> ur rill k3wl, d00d!
joo're tha bleetest hacksor ever!
--
AngryBob
I'm a cynical son of a bitch. compred to me, beaker
is puppy dogs and ice cream. :-)
-Trey
Joe Schaefer
> What would you like to read? [ande...@facstaff.wisc.edu or ?*]
> this is a Jess Anderson scroll! it says:
>
> > ur rill k3wl, d00d!
>
> joo're tha bleetest hacksor ever!
I guess we should change the subject line to
2561 days
now.
f'ups set. Please let this drivel die peacefully;
it was supposedly posted here by accident.
--
"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."
--Mark Twain
Hubert Chan
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Erskine <osi...@urbanna.net> writes:
Michael> sPelng is moot hear. ef u kin red wut ah m sayin n undrstan et
Michael> den mah speln's gud nuff. iffn you kaint red whut ahm ritin here
Michael> den mah speln's not gud nuff. if u wan tu kerrect evrybuddies
Michael> spellin go somwhur whur peopl giv a squat, cause dis herr grup is
Michael> fer folks whut wanna lern dat security stuff, see?
When I read that, my reading speed dropped to about one word per second.
That's why we need to worry about spelling. It's not enough that your message
can be understood. Unless your message seems to be particularly interesting to
me, if it takes too much effort for me to figure out what you mean, I'm just
going to ignore your post, and move on to the next one.
If you didn't take the time to make sure your post is understandable, why
should I take the time to try to understand it? (Note: I'm using "you" in a
generic sense -- I'm not referring to Michael in particular.)
That's the same reason we frown on HTML posts, right? If I'm using a news
reader that doesn't handle HTML, then why should I spend the time to parse the
HTML by hand? (Well, that and the fact that it's a waste of bandwidth.) It's
the poster's responsibility to ensure (within reason) that his/her post is
understandable. ("Within reason," for example, applies in the case of
non-English speakers. While I favour English posts, I would not expect someone
to learn English just so they could post here.)
The occasional misspelling, I don't have a problem with. I misspell sometimes.
And it (usually) doesn't force me to read (much) slower. But, as I said, if
your post is too hard to read, then I just won't bother to read it.
Hubert
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Tim Haynes
> When I read that, my reading speed dropped to about one word per second.
>
> That's why we need to worry about spelling. It's not enough that your
> message can be understood. Unless your message seems to be particularly
> interesting to me, if it takes too much effort for me to figure out what
> you mean, I'm just going to ignore your post, and move on to the next
> one.
Likewise. And presentation, as you say - HTML, but also line-wrapping like
you have a problem with, quoting/indent style, the works.
> That's the same reason we frown on HTML posts, right? If I'm using a news
> reader that doesn't handle HTML, then why should I spend the time to
> parse the HTML by hand? (Well, that and the fact that it's a waste of
> bandwidth.)
My newsreader here is very sensitive to HTML stuff. It doesn't help that I
run it through a variety of terminals (console, Eterm, gnome-terminal
mainly) and when it has to change the background, every subsequent article
I read comes out in brilliant grey on grey. For such idiots I have the
magic `k' key.
> It's the poster's responsibility to ensure (within reason) that his/her
> post is understandable. ("Within reason," for example, applies in the
> case of non-English speakers. While I favour English posts, I would not
> expect someone to learn English just so they could post here.)
Absolutely. I've started thinking of English as another `open standard'
just like HTML-4.01 from the W3C, and so on. You write in the standard,
correctly, you can expect to be understood. You write "M$loth American" and
I'll score it *right* down.
~Tim
--
You take your message to the waters, |pig...@glutinous.custard.org
And you watch the ripples flow |http://piglet.is.dreaming.org
Angry Bob
this is a Tim Haynes scroll! it says:
> Absolutely. I've started thinking of English as another `open standard'
> just like HTML-4.01 from the W3C, and so on. You write in the standard,
> correctly, you can expect to be understood. You write "M$loth American" and
> I'll score it *right* down.
I completely agree.... if someone doesn't have the ability to conform to
some netetiquette standards for posting then I usually figure that they
aren't rigorous enough for me to pay much attention to....
specifically, the following things are really bad:
HTML formatting anywhere....
MIME formatting on the newsgroup
posting above the line (i.e. above the stuff you're responding to)
not cutting the irrelavent text (if I have to page through two screens
of quoted text to see your one line reply)
not wrapping at ~72 chars
things that bug me a lot:
sigs over 4 lines
improperly delimited sigs
non standard quote brackets (shoudl be '>')
non-ascii characters anywhere
me too's with no real info to offer.
I read a _lot_ of newsgroups.... I read them pretty damn fast. I don't
use color tin to help with my visual parsing, because I can do it faster
on my own.... but if your text isn't written in a manner that allows me
to parse it quickly I will just skip over it, if it was important then
someone will probably re-format it in their reply and I'll read it
there. <shrug>
just my .02....
--
AngryBob
"The pickle doesn't know anything about the Electoral
College. After all, it's a pickle."
-- Eugene F. "Pucker" O'Grady
Hubert Chan
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Haynes <pig...@glutinous.custard.org> writes:
Tim> Hubert Chan <hack...@crosswinds.net> writes:
Hubert> That's why we need to worry about spelling. It's not enough that
Hubert> your message can be understood. Unless your message seems to be
Hubert> particularly interesting to me, if it takes too much effort for me
Hubert> to figure out what you mean, I'm just going to ignore your post,
Hubert> and move on to the next one.
Tim> Likewise. And presentation, as you say - HTML, but also line-wrapping
Tim> like you have a problem with, quoting/indent style, the works.
I have a problem with line wrapping? OK, I know that I wrap my lines at 79
characters, instead of the 72 characters that I'm "supposed" to, but I don't
believe that it really affects the readability of my posts. Same with my
supercite quoting style. But if you can convince me that I should wrap at 72
characters, and use the traditional quoting style (or point me to resources
that present good arguments for doing so), I'll be happy to change.
Hubert
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____ | -----------------------------------------------------------
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Tim Haynes
[snip]
> specifically, the following things are really bad:
>
> HTML formatting anywhere....
> MIME formatting on the newsgroup
> posting above the line (i.e. above the stuff you're responding to)
> not cutting the irrelavent text (if I have to page through two screens
> of quoted text to see your one line reply)
> not wrapping at ~72 chars
>
> things that bug me a lot:
>
> sigs over 4 lines
> improperly delimited sigs
> non standard quote brackets (shoudl be '>')
`> ' works for me. I like the margin, myself.
> non-ascii characters anywhere
> me too's with no real info to offer.
Add to the list: quoting signatures. Especially mine which is designed
*not* to wrap nicely. (Well it couldn't, not with 4 lines and the amount of
data and length of the average quote. But it's not meant to be quoted again
without work, so when I see it re-warped to 6 lines or something, they
die! ;)
> I read a _lot_ of newsgroups.... I read them pretty damn fast.
Likewise. Well, a modest dozen or so on a good day.
> I don't use color tin to help with my visual parsing, because I can do it
> faster on my own....
Use Gnus myself. In an Eterm so I get red or green but no more.
> just my .02....
:8)
~Tim
--
And we feel these shimmering moments, |pig...@glutinous.custard.org
Like silk, the flags of our days |http://piglet.is.dreaming.org
Tim Haynes
[snip]
> Tim> Likewise. And presentation, as you say - HTML, but also line-wrapping
> Tim> like you have a problem with, quoting/indent style, the works.
>
> I have a problem with line wrapping? OK, I know that I wrap my lines at
> 79 characters, instead of the 72 characters that I'm "supposed" to, but I
> don't believe that it really affects the readability of my posts.
It sure affects the reply-ability. See above where I've *not* reformatted,
easily as I could, just to press the point. Other folks don't even have
fill-adapt mode, and there comes a point where I think you'd be pushing it
- and given that the most common indent on followup is `> ', at 79 you're
expecting that the majority of responses will not wrap properly.
> Same with my supercite quoting style. But if you can convince me that I
> should wrap at 72 characters,
I'd settle for 77 or 78 chars - at least you can fit in *one* response
without asking for trouble that way. (ISTR I use something like that
myself. Oh, hang around, fill-column eq 75 here. Blimey, I was in a nice
mood that day.)
> and use the traditional quoting style (or point me to resources that
> present good arguments for doing so),
That's a bit harder to justify as it's really the right margin that counts,
but visually I find the left gap a bit excessive myself, when it could be
filled with content instead of my name. Heck, I *know* my own name already
;)
It's a recommendation in son-of-rfc-1036,
<http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/netnews/son-of-1036.html#4.3.2>,
but unfortunately there's no reasoning given for it there,
> I'll be happy to change.
That's a better attitude than many, and I wouldn't have prodded you on
anything other than `79' anyway. Rock on :8)
~Tim
--
We all talk a different language, |pig...@glutinous.custard.org
Talking in defence |http://piglet.is.dreaming.org
Angry Bob
this is a Tim Haynes scroll! it says:
> Hubert Chan <hack...@crosswinds.net> writes:
>> and use the traditional quoting style (or point me to resources that
>> present good arguments for doing so),
> That's a bit harder to justify as it's really the right margin that counts,
agreed, because the text is obviously re-formatted it passes on style.
<smile> As long as it remains in the mystical realm of 'Easy enough to
read', I'll continue reading it.
--
AngryBob
I ust Mandrake Linux for the same reason I turn the light switch
on and off 17 times before leaving the room.... If I don't my
family will die. -- I wish I remembered.
Gene Heskett
TH> Hubert Chan <hack...@crosswinds.net> writes:
>> When I read that, my reading speed dropped to about one word per
>> second.
I have to admit it slowed me down some too, and its not appropriate, but
it sure was entertaining watching to see who could mangle it worse and
still be understood. I was half tempted to jump in with some West
Virginia'isms. :-)
Cheers, Gene
--
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