Is Debian still good for GUI stuff in an over 12 yrs. old PC?

[Ant]

I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?

Setup details:

Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800
(PC2-6400; 400 MHz), EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
of VRAM), onboard RealTek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet
and Intel High Digital Audio (HDA), 600 watts Sea Sonic S12 PSU, ASUS TV
Tuner Card 880 NTSC (cx23880), Pioneer CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model
DVR-218LBK LabelFlash Support, 3.5" floppy disk drive, Corsair Force
Series F115 Solid-State Disk (SSD) (115 GB; CSSD-F115GB2-BRKT-A), two
internal 3.5" SATA hard disk drives (HDDs) [Seagate ST3320620AS 320 GB
and Western Digital Purple Surveillance 2 TB (6 Gbs; 50 MB cache; WDC
WD20PURX-64P6ZY0)], Sabrent USB2+memory card reader front panel, and an
Intel InBusiness 10/100 (82559) NIC (not connected). Running 64-bit
Debian (Linux; oldoldstable v8/Jessie; kernel v3.16... x86_64) and
updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE SP1 (installed on 10/22/2016).

Connected to an old (Y2K) Belkin Omni Cube (2-port; PS/2 and VGA) KVM to
share a 23.6" 16:9 1920x1080 pixels ASUS VS247H-P monitor (LED; 2 ms,
9/2014, etc.), a Dell 104-key PS/2 keyboard, and a three-buttons PS/2
optical Logitech mouse.

Thank you for reading and hopefully answering soon. :)
--
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/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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[Roger Blake]

On 2021-08-30, Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?

I'm running Lubuntu 18.04 on a 2004-vintage Centrino laptop, and Debian 11
with LXDE on an Asus Eee netbook from 2009. These are 32-bit 2GB systems
with small SSDs installed. They're not speed demons but work fine. Don't
expect to play HD video but SD works OK. (Though maybe with your video
card you'll have better results.) I expect you'll do all right running
Debian 11 on your setup. Some additional memory wouldn't be a bad idea.

--
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[The Natural Philosopher]

On 31/08/2021 00:22, Ant wrote:
> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?

Try Linux Mint Mate
Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

[SixOverFive]

Hell YES.

Debian is really NOT a "heavy" OS. Indeed it
can be super-Spartan. Look at Slitaz ....
measures in MEGAbytes.

Deb + LXDE or OpenBox will run quite well on
even decade+ year old hardware.

No, you can't run the latest video games or
live-process video - but for 95% of common
purposes it'll be GREAT.

This missive is from an N200-based subnotebook,
which is about the speed/capacity of a decade+
old Pentium-3 with 32gb. MX Linux with LXDE
(XFCE is in reserve). Deb can be made quite
nice with even less than MX includes. You can
try the 'X' part of MX .. antiX ... but the
GUI *is* clunkier.

After going through ALL the distros, I recommend
vanilla Deb with a light GUI over all others.
Efficient, no BS. Add what you want and skip
the rest. Learn the apt-get --no-include-recommends
tricks though :-)

[Marc Haber]

[Please don't crosspost this wildly in the future, and at least set a
Followup-To: header]

a...@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>Intel Core 2 Q8200 (quad-core; default clock speeds; Socket 775 LGA;
>Yorkfield) with a Scythe Andy Master 120mm CPU cooler (SCASM-1000),
>Antec Sonata Proto mid tower ATX case, MSI P43 NEO3-F (MSI-7514)
>motherboard (latest BIOS), two 1 GB of Crucial RAM (Samsung DDR2 800

>(PC2-6400; 400 MHz),EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB
>of VRAM),

Do yourself the favor and upgrade your RAM to 8 GB, if the board
allows that. Be careful not to exceed the remaining value of the
entire machine doing so. And expect that the nVidia driver will not
support the old graphics card any more.

Consider ditching the entire machine and replacing it with a more
recent, probably used, box.

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Marc Haber]

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>Learn the apt-get --no-include-recommends
>tricks though

|[2/5046]mh@drop:~ $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70RecommendsSuggests
|APT {
| Install-Recommends "false";
| Install-Suggests "false";
|};
|
|[3/5047]mh@drop:~ $

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 31.08.21 um 05:39 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 31/08/2021 00:22, Ant wrote:
>> I'll be mainly doing basic stuff like web browsing, e-mails, newsgroups,
>> downloads, listening to audio, watching videos, simple SSH2 server, etc.
>> I currently run updated Debian Jessie v8's KDE which is fine but it
>> doesn't get updates for years so it's time to move on for a clean/new
>> Linux installation. Will getting Bullseye v11 be OK?
> Try Linux Mint Mate
> Verty good multimedia support. Not as dumbed as Cinnamon

https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290

Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.


--
De gustibus non est disputandum

[The Natural Philosopher]

Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User
Experience"

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 31.08.21 um 15:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 31/08/2021 14:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290
>>
>> Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.
>>
>>
> Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User
> Experience"

Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine. This
posting is written on a MacBook Air with a Cinnamon installed as sole OS.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 31.08.21 um 15:34 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
>> On 31/08/2021 14:19, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=290
>>>
>>> Xfce should be even lighter on the system. Also good multimedia-support.
>>>
>>>
>> Agreed, but if he can add some RAM. I feel Mate is a better "User
>> Experience"
>
> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.

In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)



--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

[SixOverFive]

On 08/31/2021 05:01 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>> Learn the apt-get --no-include-recommends
>> tricks though
>
> |[2/5046]mh@drop:~ $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70RecommendsSuggests
> |APT {
> | Install-Recommends "false";
> | Install-Suggests "false";
> |};
> |
> |[3/5047]mh@drop:~ $
>
> Greetings
> Marc
>

That'll work - but usually I like to decide on
a case-by-case basis. However someone using VERY
limited old hardware might want to set those as
defaults. Often very innocent looking programs
drag in a HUGE amount of crap that could overwhelm
an old box or require breaking the install process
in the middle to prevent it ... which isn't always
the best thing.

In the Debiverse, Synaptic is your best friend. It'll
clearly list all the "helper" software your app wants
to drag in (doesn't seem to clarify WHAT is junk and
what is absolutely required though).

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 31.08.21 um 16:47 schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 31/08/2021 15:16, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Really? I think that is a matter of taste. I always worked with Cinnamon
>> on rather powerful machines. That is as good as a Mac OS-machine.
>
> In my book that is not really an upward step from Windows ;-)

*Really*?!
Everything is an improvement over Windows 1X, IMHO.
MacOS is more sophisticated as far as the look is concerned but it is a
digital prison.

[The Natural Philosopher]

In a nutshell yes. My desktop is set up with a MAC look, but that's all


--
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.”
Sir Roger Scruton

[Charlie Gibbs]

On the rare occasions that I use my wife's Mac, I feel that
I'm not so much using it as it is using me. See my .sig...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Marc Haber]

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>On 08/31/2021 05:01 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> > SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
> >> Learn the apt-get --no-include-recommends
> >> tricks though
> >
> > |[2/5046]mh@drop:~ $ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70RecommendsSuggests
> > |APT {
> > | Install-Recommends "false";
> > | Install-Suggests "false";
> > |};
> > |
> > |[3/5047]mh@drop:~ $
> >
> > Greetings
> > Marc
> >
>
> That'll work - but usually I like to decide on
> a case-by-case basis.

I think you can override the settings if you want recommends. ALso,
apt says which recommended / suggested package it doesn install.

I find it dangerous to have the "give me the full thing" as default,
it's too easy to omit the option once.

Also debfoster does a pretty good job in keeping the system small.

> However someone using VERY
> limited old hardware might want to set those as
> defaults.

I am a professional server jockey and all my Debian installs have
these set. Especially in containerized environments you want to be as
small as possible.

> In the Debiverse, Synaptic is your best friend.

I disagree even for desktop machines.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On Wed, 01 Sep 2021 11:07:48 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>
>> In the Debiverse, Synaptic is your best friend.
>
> I disagree even for desktop machines.

Agreed. aptitude or apt-get rules the Debian universe. No need for a GUI.
--
Andreas

[SixOverFive]

For containers, I agree.

But I don't use containers/VMs on servers. Had too many
negative experiences. The hardware is cheap enough these
days that you can dedicate a box-per-task-or-two. Now
I mostly do small/medium outfits - LARGE outfits might
have a different buzz.

>
>> In the Debiverse, Synaptic is your best friend.
>
> I disagree even for desktop machines.

Well, it's the FIRST thing I install on a new install.
Everything Command-Line is for the 80s - or those
looking for job security :-)

So we'll have to agree to disagree.

I can envision a Synaptic2 ... there ARE some features
that could/should be included nowadays.

[Marc Haber]

SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>So we'll have to agree to disagree.

We have. And I'm actually happy about it. Why having a discussion
about technical aspects when it's so easy to go personal.

[SixOverFive]

On 9/2/21 3:30 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> SixOverFive <hae274c.net> wrote:
>> So we'll have to agree to disagree.
>
> We have. And I'm actually happy about it. Why having a discussion
> about technical aspects when it's so easy to go personal.

I don't think you're crazy/evil for YOUR vision
of what servers etc are "supposed to be like" ...
my vision is just different, MAYBE a tad more
"modern". I am not afraid of GUIs and am NOT
concerned they'll "overload" an i10 dodecacore
somehow.

Fortunately, the LinuVerse can deliver BOTH our
visions with minimal problems.

I (horrors!) like to administer using V*N*C even !
No, NOT on traditional ports - indeed I've taken
to using a funky variant of 'port knocking' on
the supervisory server and even then using SSH
tunnels. The enabler port hosts a little service
and you have to send it something that meets a
certain mathematical criteria. It never signals
success or not, it just does what it does when
the code is right.

And no, NEVER those handy all-purpose remote
server management apps like, well, read the
news ............ big fat bullseye targets ...

[TJ]

Hello, Ant.

I can't answer your question, because I have zero experience with
Debian. I use Mageia Linux, and have since its inception a decade ago,
and I can say that your hardware would work just fine with Mageia 8.

I would, however, echo some of the advice you've been given here to get
the best you can out of Mageia. You should add some RAM - bring it up to
4GB at least, and 8 would be better. With just 2GB you are likely to be
using swap if you try to do more than one thing at a time, and that will
hurt performance, even with an ssd.

I'd also replace the Nvidia card with one from AMD, because Nvidia has
become notorious for not supporting their older cards with proprietary
drivers. While your current card may work OK with the open source
nouveau driver, it also may not. I dumped my last Nvidia card two years
ago because of this. The open source AMD drivers are much more capable
in my experience.

Ebay is an excellent place to look for lightly used older hardware
upgrades - it is where most of my hardware has come from.

I have a PC, on loan to my brother, with a 13 year old Intel DQ45CB
motherboard, a Core 2 Duo E8400 processor, 8GB of RAM, AMD HD 8570
video, and an ssd drive. He connects to the Internet with an Atheros
AR9485 PCIe card. He is running Mageia 8 Linux with the Plasma DE, with
no troubles at all. The video card uses the AMDGPU driver, but actually,
for anything he's likely to do the onboard Intel graphics would be
perfectly adequate.

I also have an 18 year old Dell Inspiron 5100 that is successfully
running Mageia 8 Linux. It has a 32-bit P4 processor, 2GB of RAM (the
max for the hardware), downright ancient Radeon RV200 graphics, and an
old Atheros wifi card. It is running 32-bit Mageia Xfce, currently using
the 5.10.62 kernel. It's definitely no speed demon, but it works.

TJ