Learning Curve...
Daniel Koepke
user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".
I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
certainly learning pretty quickly.
So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!
Dan
Malte
like Windows, it should take you a couple of weeks of intensive use.
Most of the time will be spent trying to figure out how to do simple
things: burning CD, printing, file management (if you use cmd lines in
Windows). After a short while you'll hate having to boot Windows :-)
Moe Trin
wrote:
>In general, how long would you say that an experienced DOS and windows
>user, would be up-to-speed in linux? I have been working with computers
>since the DOS 5.0 era and always have been somewhat "techie".
Ah, but what were you doing with DOS 5.0? The basic OS had 70 commands
(plus 8 more used in batchfiles), and no networking.
[compton ~]$ ls `echo $PATH | tr ':' ' '` | grep -Evc '(:|^$)'
1296
[compton ~]$
As a user, there are 1296 commands in my PATH (about 1650 as root), and
networking is a way of life in *nix.
>I just installed rh7.3 on an old PII I had sitting around and have really
>enjoyed working on it, but still feel like a newbie (which is such a
>strange feeling to me). All this is still foreign to me, but I am
>certainly learning pretty quickly.
RH7.3 came out in May 2002, and the official Red Hat support ended at
the end of December 2003. There is still a limited amount of support
from download.fedoralegacy.org, but it's a bit on the old side.
>So, just a simple "opinion-question" to satisfy my curiousity! Thanks!
How long did it take you to come up to speed in DOS 5? What are you
trying to do in Linux? If you are just clicking on icons, it's not
really that long - things are obviously different from windoze, but the
basic concepts are similar. On the other hand, if you are trying to
write scripts (the equivalent of batch files) to de-spam your mail on
your ISP's mail server before you attempt to download, you will need
a lot more time. The "Introduction to Unix" class I took a long time
ago spent about a quarter of the semester just trying to bring us up to
speed on 'vi' and 'mail' (two 3 hour classes per week). You'd also be
hitting books pretty hard, because the 'man' pages aren't all that user
friendly. Luckily, there are a bunch of 'HOWTOs' (if you installed them,
look in /usr/share/HOWTO/), and more than twenty free books from the
Linux Documentation Project. A few of those might be on your system too,
but you can always go to http://tldp.org/guides.html
Old guy
Daniel Koepke
impression of my experience and what I have been used to in the past. I
went from DOS 5.0, to DOS 6.2, Win 3.11, Win95, Win98 and up until
recently (meaning the last couple of weeks of linux), Win 2K (at home and
work). So, that has been about 13 years, give or take. As for what I
was doing with DOS at that time...well, probably not much more than
changing directories and running executables:)
I realize rh7.3 is a bit on the old side, but I am new to all this and
this is what I had available. I have already updated the kernel and
installed several programs and updates successfully. I am not all that
concerned with being on the cutting edge, and seeing this is a secondary
computer, I am fine with that. I will likely be using this mainly for
basic computing needs plus an internet connection...well, that and just
to get a better feel for the linux environment.
So, it sounds like I could be looking at a few months with tutorials and
how-to's for what I will likely be doing. I am using gnome right now, so
the basic concepts, as you stated, are similar. I am just learning what
programs I really have available.
Thanks for your reply. does it really make much sends for me to be
looking for brand new releases if everything I have been doing on this
box is working fine?
Dan
Daniel Koepke
Yeah, it is pretty much a mix of just "using" it, but also wanting to
learn more command-line and linux/unix stuff. I don't think I will get
away from having linux and windows here at home for some time, but this
is certainly a start in that direction.
I have noticed that I am spending a lot of time figuring out the simple
stuff:) Thanks for your reply!!!
Dan
Moe Trin
Koepke wrote:
>As for what I was doing with DOS at that time...well, probably not much
>more than changing directories and running executables:)
I think the first three DOS commands I mastered were 'cd' 'dir' and 'cls'
which become 'cd' 'ls' and 'clear' in *nix ;-)
>I realize rh7.3 is a bit on the old side, but I am new to all this and
>this is what I had available. I have already updated the kernel and
>installed several programs and updates successfully.
OK, that sounds good. As a newbie, using the package manager may at first
seem daunting, but it's a _very_ handy tool. A minor problem is that rpms
are not compatible across distributions or even versions (hence the
separate updates directories at redhat or fedoralegacy.org). The lowest
common denominator is the tarball, compiling from source to make new
binaries. The disadvantage (outside of the fact that the task is more
complex) is that there is no package management built into tarballs. Your
package manager has no idea what you are doing (and thus won't know that
you have a more modern $FOO installed), and you have to make sure that
installing $BAR doesn't overwrite $BAZ or otherwise break something else.
But you learn this from doing, meaning installing 'stuff' that your system
doesn't have, or depend on. This could be something like a script that will
summarize web logs, or a goofy piece of eye candy for your desktop (like a
clock).
>I am not all that concerned with being on the cutting edge, and seeing
>this is a secondary computer, I am fine with that. I will likely be using
>this mainly for basic computing needs plus an internet connection...well,
>that and just to get a better feel for the linux environment.
The concern is not about being cutting edge - it's making sure that the
system can't be exploited. It used to be that Red Hat divided their
errata notices into 'Security Alerts', 'Bugfixes', and 'Enhancements'.
We'd look at the 'Security Alerts', see if the package was installed, and
if so, do the replacement soonest. We'd then do the same with the 'Bugfixes'
but that was usually a lower priority. 'Enhancements'? Well, that's a maybe.
Red Hat isn't supporting RH7.3 any more, and the limited number of fixes
that fedoralegacy.org has are backports from Fedora Core. All this really
means is that you need to be a bit more aware of problems, and either fix
those, or configure things such there they are not problems. An example
of this is 'ssh' which had been exploited. The simple fix is to remove
(or at least disable) that service. If you do need it (to connect from
outside your system, configuring your firewall to only allow such
connections from trusted hosts (other systems on your LAN, perhaps the
system at work, or your family) is nearly as good.
>So, it sounds like I could be looking at a few months with tutorials and
>how-to's for what I will likely be doing.
You may wish to look at the dates on the HOWTOs and such. At one point, as
much as a third of the HOWTOs were being updated every six months (an
advantage of electronic documentation over printed media), though now it's
only about a tenth. Documentation (meaning HOWTOs and LDP guides) updates
are not normally part of the errata service, so the stuff that came with
RH7.3 is a bit old.
>I am using gnome right now, so the basic concepts, as you stated, are
>similar. I am just learning what programs I really have available.
That's fine. As I'm sure you have discovered, there are a bewildering
number of applications available, and usually several different
selections. I'll bet there is at least four text editors, four or five
mail tools, three browsers, and who knows what else.
>Thanks for your reply. does it really make much sends for me to be
>looking for brand new releases if everything I have been doing on this
>box is working fine?
As long as what you are doing doesn't get into security problems, probably
not. By this, I mean that you wouldn't want to be running wu-ftpd.2.6.0
(absolutely ancient - used only as an example) as an ftp server to the
world, as it has not only known issues, but known exploits in the wild.
But if you've firewalled it so that it's only accessible from the loopback,
or at most, other computers on your local LAN ONLY, then it's no-where
near an important risk. On the other hand, if you _did_ want to run an
ftp server open to the world, then you'd certainly want to be using the
current version.
Old guy