Linux PowerPC on a very old PowerBook G4 1 Ghz with 512 MB of RAM?

[Ant]

Hello.

Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?

Thank you in advance. :)
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[Stephen Harker]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> writes:

> Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
> Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?

I have linux running on (i) PowerMac 7600/200 (with 450 MHz G4) and 1 GB
RAM, (ii) iBook G4 1.33 MHz with 1.5 GB RAM and (iii) PowerMac G5
dual-core 2.0 GHz with 12 GB RAM. None exactly correspond. The 7600 is
useful for basic web browsing, but suffers from slow memory and slow
graphics on some sites. The iBook is fine. Adding memory is cheap and
easy in most cases (it was for my iBook).

Here are some links for distributions (the PowerBook is classed as New
World). The first is likely out-of-date as the site is probably not
maintained. The DeveloperWorks site may have some useful links, but it
is focussed on IBM Power servers.

<http://penguinppc.org/about-2/distributions/>
<https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/community/groups/service/html/
communityview?communityUuid=fe313521-2e95-46f2-817d-44a4f27eba32>

Of these the ones I know something about are commented below.

Debian is still maintained for PowerPC and works well.

Fedora is available for G4 for Fedora 16 and 17 as a secondary
architecture, possibly for later distributions.

Yellow Dog Linux has not been updated much past 2010 (YDL 6.2 was
released in 2009).

--
Stephen Harker s.ha...@adfa.edu.au
PEMS http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
UNSW@ADFA

[Anton Ertl]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> writes:
>Hello.
>
>Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
>Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?

I used to run an iBook G4 1GHz (really 1066 MHz) with IIRC 256 MB RAM
(IIRC upgraded to 1280MB some years later), and it was nicely usable,
but that was with software from the era. I guess you can still do a
lot with 512MB these days, but if you go for the latest bloatware of
these days (inlcuding certain web sites), you may find that it has too
little CPU and too little memory.

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
an...@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

[playforvoices]

Am Sun, 18 Jan 2015 14:12:09 -0800 schrieb Ant:

> Hello.
>
> Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
> Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)

Hello Ant,

I have worked with Linux (Debian 7) on an eMac 1,25 Ghz with 1MB RAM. As
Desktopmanager I has used Xfce. With these set the eMac was running fast
and stable - no issues. A little hint, take also a look on MorphOS. They
have a special profile for older PowerMacs. An MorphOS is faster then
Linux or OSX.

[Ant]

On 1/22/2015 7:59 AM, playforvoices wrote:

>> Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
>> Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?
>>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Hello Ant,
>
> I have worked with Linux (Debian 7) on an eMac 1,25 Ghz with 1MB RAM. As
> Desktopmanager I has used Xfce. With these set the eMac was running fast
> and stable - no issues. A little hint, take also a look on MorphOS. They
> have a special profile for older PowerMacs. An MorphOS is faster then
> Linux or OSX.

1 MB of RAM??? Hmm, how popular is MorphUS for Internet, etc.?
--
"The world flatters the elephant and tramples on the ant." --Indian

[playforvoices]

Am Thu, 22 Jan 2015 08:04:14 -0800 schrieb Ant:

> On 1/22/2015 7:59 AM, playforvoices wrote:
>
>>> Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
>>> Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Hello Ant,
>>
>> I have worked with Linux (Debian 7) on an eMac 1,25 Ghz with 1MB RAM.
>> As Desktopmanager I has used Xfce. With these set the eMac was running
>> fast and stable - no issues. A little hint, take also a look on
>> MorphOS. They have a special profile for older PowerMacs. An MorphOS is
>> faster then Linux or OSX.
>
> 1 MB of RAM??? Hmm, how popular is MorphUS for Internet, etc.?

Sorry, not 1 MB i mean 1GB ;-) For Internet you have Browser, Mail,
Torrent. But the support of scanners and printers are terrible.

[Ant]

Are those Internet softwares updated and able to handle fancy web sites?
What videos, Flash, etc.? Bummer on printers and scanners. :(
--
"Is it for pleasure you were made? Not for doing, and for action? Look
at the plants, the sparrows, the ants, spiders, bees, all doing their
business, helping to weld the order of the world. And will you refuse
man's part? And not run the way of nature's ordering?" --Marcus Aurelius

[playforvoices]

Am Thu, 22 Jan 2015 08:29:42 -0800 schrieb Ant:

> On 1/22/2015 8:10 AM, playforvoices wrote:
>> Am Thu, 22 Jan 2015 08:04:14 -0800 schrieb Ant:
>>
>>> On 1/22/2015 7:59 AM, playforvoices wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Is anyone running Linux on it? If so, then is it usuable like with
>>>>> Internet usage (e.g., web surfing), etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you in advance. :)
>>>>
>>>> Hello Ant,
>>>>
>>>> I have worked with Linux (Debian 7) on an eMac 1,25 Ghz with 1MB RAM.
>>>> As Desktopmanager I has used Xfce. With these set the eMac was
>>>> running fast and stable - no issues. A little hint, take also a look
>>>> on MorphOS. They have a special profile for older PowerMacs. An
>>>> MorphOS is faster then Linux or OSX.
>>>
>>> 1 MB of RAM??? Hmm, how popular is MorphUS for Internet, etc.?
>>
>> Sorry, not 1 MB i mean 1GB ;-) For Internet you have Browser, Mail,
>> Torrent. But the support of scanners and printers are terrible.
>
> Are those Internet softwares updated and able to handle fancy web sites?
> What videos, Flash, etc.? Bummer on printers and scanners. :(

The problem is, there is no recent version of a flashplayer for any ppc
based system. On Linux you have Gnash but these will only work with some
small flash games. If you install an old version of flashplayer you get
the risk of a security breach. But back to your question. No, it can
handle fancy websites but can handle videos and the software is under
updating.

But after trying Debian and MorphOS I finaly go back to OSX 10.5. Take
iCab for Internet, Powermail for Mail, LimeChat for IRC and for security
I use RootKitHunter OSX (scan for security breaches).

[Ant]

...

> But after trying Debian and MorphOS I finaly go back to OSX 10.5. Take
> iCab for Internet, Powermail for Mail, LimeChat for IRC and for security
> I use RootKitHunter OSX (scan for security breaches).

Thanks. I guess I will try all of them to pick the best. Or keep all as
multiple boots and partitions. Heh!
--
"Don't even step on an ant." --Greek

[playforvoices]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> ...
>> But after trying Debian and MorphOS I finaly go back to OSX 10.5. Take
>> iCab for Internet, Powermail for Mail, LimeChat for IRC and for security
>> I use RootKitHunter OSX (scan for security breaches).
>
> Thanks. I guess I will try all of them to pick the best. Or keep all as
> multiple boots and partitions. Heh!

I have forget to say something about MintPPC. It's also a good Distro based
on Debian 7. On board they have special drivers for PPC Macs and some "Mint
Tools". Give them also a try. Please let me know what your final way is. ;)

[Ant]

So, we currently have:

Debian PPC (updated)
MintPPC (updated)
MorphOS (Amiga, not Linux; updated)
Fedora v16-17 (old)
Yellow Dog Linux (old)

Any more?
--
"We have to break with what must be broken with once and for all... and
we have to take the suffering upon ourselves... Freedom and power--power
above all. Power over all the tumbling vermin and over all the
ant-hill!" --Fedor Dostoevsky

[playforvoices]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:
> On 1/24/2015 6:42 AM, playforvoices wrote:
>
>>> ...
>>>> But after trying Debian and MorphOS I finaly go back to OSX 10.5. Take
>>>> iCab for Internet, Powermail for Mail, LimeChat for IRC and for security
>>>> I use RootKitHunter OSX (scan for security breaches).
>>>
>>> Thanks. I guess I will try all of them to pick the best. Or keep all as
>>> multiple boots and partitions. Heh!
>>
>> I have forget to say something about MintPPC. It's also a good Distro based
>> on Debian 7. On board they have special drivers for PPC Macs and some "Mint
>> Tools". Give them also a try. Please let me know what your final way is. ;)
>>
>
> So, we currently have:
>
> Debian PPC (updated)
> MintPPC (updated)
> MorphOS (Amiga, not Linux; updated)
> Fedora v16-17 (old)
> Yellow Dog Linux (old)
>
> Any more?

Yes, FreeBSD 10.1 also support PPC hardware.

[Stephen Harker]

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> writes:

> On 1/24/2015 6:42 AM, playforvoices wrote:
>
>>> ...
>>>> But after trying Debian and MorphOS I finaly go back to OSX 10.5. Take
>>>> iCab for Internet, Powermail for Mail, LimeChat for IRC and for security
>>>> I use RootKitHunter OSX (scan for security breaches).
>>>
>>> Thanks. I guess I will try all of them to pick the best. Or keep all as
>>> multiple boots and partitions. Heh!
>>
>> I have forget to say something about MintPPC. It's also a good Distro based
>> on Debian 7. On board they have special drivers for PPC Macs and some "Mint
>> Tools". Give them also a try. Please let me know what your final way is. ;)
>>
>
> So, we currently have:
>
> Debian PPC (updated)
> MintPPC (updated)
> MorphOS (Amiga, not Linux; updated)
> Fedora v16-17 (old)

I did see posts from someone who said that he had upgraded a powermac to
fedora 21, but don't know how heroic an effort this was. I think the
community releases past 17 were for power64 and apparently up to 21
would work on a G5. There were builds of the packages for power32 or
some such. Not something I would recommend.

> Yellow Dog Linux (old)

YDL 6.2 was built on Centos5. You can build the Centos 5 update
packages yourself and update YDL. Again, not something I would
recommend.

I looked at some of the web sites in my previous post. These are not
distributions I know much about.

Crux: http://cruxppc.org/ (community build, may be moribund).

Gentoo: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/PPC/FAQ (seems to have recent
information).

Ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC (updated, community builds).

[playforvoices]

Good idea! I believe the Lubuntu community has a PPC version ready on
LiveCD. Gentoo I have tested on a PowerMac G5 but it was a lot of work to
bring them up. To cruxppc I can't tell you enything.

[Ant]

I finally found free time to play this with since I am currently
unemployed. I ran into an issue with my favorite distribution, Debian. I
downloaded and burned its debian-8.7.1-powerpc-netinst (going to use a
network cable) onto an old 650 MB CD-RW. It booted up fine until
something about firmware (skipped it for now) the disk management part.
I could not find a way to make it small/big enough for a dual boot set
up since I wanted to keep my Mac OS X v10.2.8 (also has Classic 9 in it)
intact just in case. It is in the 60 GB HDD (actually 55.88 GB with
about 26 GB free according to Mac OS X v10.2.8). I told it to try 20 and
10 GB sizes, but no go (too small, huh?). What's the smallest size I can
use? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/ch03s04.html.en says
I need a minimum of 10 GB, but I tried that.

If not, then what about the other distributions?

Thank you in advance. :)

--
"Trivial hurts, tiny human accidents," said Firenze, as his hooves
thudded over the mossy floor. "These are of no more significance than
the scurryings of ants to the wide universe, and are unaffected by
planetary movements." --Harry Potter book
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[ErikRS]

Ant wrote:
> I could not find a way to make it small/big enough for a dual boot set
> up since I wanted to keep my Mac OS X v10.2.8 (also has Classic 9 in it)
> intact just in case. It is in the 60 GB HDD (actually 55.88 GB with
> about 26 GB free according to Mac OS X v10.2.8).

Just to let you know... The 1ghz PowerBook G4 can handle a 320gb ATA
disk. so maybe it would be a good idea to exchange your existing HD with
a 320gb disk - best is the WD Caviar 5400rpm/16mb cache or the somewhat
more expensive 'Black' version of that disk.

Since you have both 10.2.8 (can be upgraded to 10.5.8 on the 1ghz PB) as
well as classic, you can use an older version of Carbon Copy Cloner to
make identical copies on a 320gb disk - partitioned into 3 partitions, -
for example a 40gb partition for OS 9.x, a 80-100gb partition for your
Linus and the rest for OS X...

Cheers, Erik Richard

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen <mac-d...@MOVEstofanet.dk>
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Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Ant]

In comp.os.linux.powerpc ErikRS <mac-...@is.invalid> wrote:
...

> Since you have both 10.2.8 (can be upgraded to 10.5.8 on the 1ghz PB) as
> well as classic, you can use an older version of Carbon Copy Cloner to
> make identical copies on a 320gb disk - partitioned into 3 partitions, -
> for example a 40gb partition for OS 9.x, a 80-100gb partition for your
> Linus and the rest for OS X...

I tried using the v10.5.2 install v1.1 DVDs from a 2008 MacBook Pro, but
it refused to install from bootable DVD. :(
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[Ant]

On 2/26/2017 3:57 PM, Ant wrote:

> I finally found free time to play this with since I am currently
> unemployed. I ran into an issue with my favorite distribution, Debian. I
> downloaded and burned its debian-8.7.1-powerpc-netinst (going to use a
> network cable) onto an old 650 MB CD-RW. It booted up fine until
> something about firmware (skipped it for now) the disk management part.
> I could not find a way to make it small/big enough for a dual boot set
> up since I wanted to keep my Mac OS X v10.2.8 (also has Classic 9 in it)
> intact just in case. It is in the 60 GB HDD (actually 55.88 GB with
> about 26 GB free according to Mac OS X v10.2.8). I told it to try 20 and
> 10 GB sizes, but no go (too small, huh?). What's the smallest size I can
> use? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/powerpc/ch03s04.html.en says
> I need a minimum of 10 GB, but I tried that.

I manage to get going, but still having problems with its disk partition
to install: It got stuck at 52% for a few hours overnight at "Starting
up the partitioner -- Please wait" text screen. First noticed it before
7 AM PST after waking up, and it is now 9:56 AM PST. I am scared to
reboot. MBP's keyboard feels warm in its top area. I assume it is doing
something? I wished Macs had HDD lights like PCs. Also, I hope my
network disconnection didn't caused this.

A friend told me to press fn+alt+f4 to see its console. I took a couple
iPhone 4S pictures of it being stuck: https://i.imgbox.com/GwEIUWjX.jpg
and https://i.imgbox.com/POvMqh3M.jpg ... The eth0 line was caused by my
manual network cable disconnection. It looked like a process ran out of
memory (PB only has 512 MB of RAM). Anyways, he told me just reboot. I
was prepared for the worst -- a hosed HDD. In fact, it was OK! It wasn't
even resized!! What the heck?

I am going to take a break since I got other things to do for now. Also,
this bootable Debian text installer needs to blank the screen black
after idling for a while.
--
"When the water rises the fish eat the ants, when the water falls the
ants eat the fish." --Thai Proverb

[Ant]

OK, I finally got them working but my old Mac OS X drive got hosed (no
big deal since I haven't used it for like a decade :P). I had to redo
the drive from scratch. This time I told Mac OS X v10.2.1's installer
DVD's Disk Utility to make two partitions, installed both OSes (Mac OS X
+ v10.2.8 upgrade first and Debian (no resizing this time), etc.

So far, I am happy with these results. Just a pain! I also tried Lubuntu
and Ubuntu, but they had their own issues. Argh. It's nuts that this
wasn't easy! :(
--
"Great God of the Ants, thou hast granted victory to thy servants. I
appoint thee honorary Colonel." --Karel Capek