Which SSL is links using?

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

This is still about gmail:smtp TLS/SSL.

`links gmail.com` shows me the traces while it's 'doing SSL'.
So that means my system HAS a working SSL system.

`apropos ssl | wc -l` == 290 Plenty stuff !!
That's why I refuse to "buy yourself a ding-dong".

`pstree` shows a ssh. I don't think that's it.
I don't know ssl and I suspect most others just mouth the words.

Is there some way to 'capture a trace' of what processes `links`
used? Or what?

== TIA

[J G Miller]

On Saturday, March 9th, 2013, at 19:49:48h +0000, Chris Glurr declared:

> That's why I refuse to "buy yourself a ding-dong".

Thank you for sharing this excellent advice.

I am sure all readers of these news groups support your most
commendable, resolute, and steadfast decision not to buy yourself
a ding-dong.

Perhaps this could be the start of a new popular movement
which will sweep the masses and ding-dongs will finally
disappear from the stores because of a mass boycott.

Have you ever considered running for public office on a
platform to outlaw ding-dongs?


<http://en.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Ding_Dong>

The Ding Dong is a chocolate cake most recently
produced and distributed in the US by Hostess Brands,

[Aragorn]

On Saturday 09 March 2013 21:19, J G Miller conveyed the following to
comp.os.linux.networking...

Over here in Belgium, a "ding-dong" is a generic nickname for a kind of
doorbell which makes a sound like, uhh, "ding dong!". ;-)

--
= Aragorn =

http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

[J G Miller]

Op zaterdag, 09 mars, 2013, om 21:34:06u +0100, schreef Aragorn:

> Over here in Belgium, a "ding-dong" is a generic nickname for a kind of
> doorbell which makes a sound like, uhh, "ding dong!". ;-)

And not only that, one may attend ding-dong classes in Sint-Pieters-Woluwe,
Brussel Hoofdstedelijk Gewest. ;)

<http://www.dingdong-music.COM/>

[Keith Keller]

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.networking.]

On 2013-03-09, Avoi...@gmail.com <Avoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> `pstree` shows a ssh. I don't think that's it.
> I don't know ssl and I suspect most others just mouth the words.
>
> Is there some way to 'capture a trace' of what processes `links`
> used? Or what?

Competent people would use strace or read the source code. You should
probably just give up and buy some Ding-Dongs.

FWIW, links would not spawn an ssh process to create an SSL link to
a remote web server. Rather, links is linked to the ssl libraries so
that it can create a secure session itself.

--keith

--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information

[Avoi...@gmail.com]

In article <m7ps0ax...@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>, Keith Keller <kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:

> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.networking.]
>
> On 2013-03-09, Avoi...@gmail.com <Avoi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > `pstree` shows a ssh. I don't think that's it.
> > I don't know ssl and I suspect most others just mouth the words.
> >
> > Is there some way to 'capture a trace' of what processes `links`
> > used? Or what?
>
> Competent people would use strace or read the source code. You should
> probably just give up and buy some Ding-Dongs.
>
> FWIW, links would not spawn an ssh process to create an SSL link to
> a remote web server. Rather, links is linked to the ssl libraries so
> that it can create a secure session itself.
>

Is ssh unrelated to SSL?
I'll kill ssh and see if links still works, without ssh restarting?
> --keith
>

[Richard Kettlewell]

Avoi...@gmail.com writes:
> Is ssh unrelated to SSL?

Yes.

--
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

[Vince Coen]

Hello Aragorn!

09 Mar 13 20:34, Aragorn wrote to All:

>>> That's why I refuse to "buy yourself a ding-dong".
>>
>> Thank you for sharing this excellent advice.
>>
>> I am sure all readers of these news groups support your most
>> commendable, resolute, and steadfast decision not to buy yourself
>> a ding-dong.
>>

> Over here in Belgium, a "ding-dong" is a generic nickname for a kind
> of doorbell which makes a sound like, uhh, "ding dong!". ;-)

In the UK it is a old expression for an object or device that one is not
sure what it does, however there are many other generic names that have
replaced it over the years related to different industries, eg,
bloggs = Student pilot Aviation) or dummy test data username in IT.




Vince

[J G Miller]

On Sunday, March 10th, 2013, at 18:47:41h +0000, Vince Coen advised:

> In the UK it is a old expression for an object or device that one
> is not sure what it does

However, the meaning of the term could be somewhat different in the
Oranje-Vrijstaat Afrikaans.

[Aragorn]

On Sunday 10 March 2013 22:02, J G Miller conveyed the following to
comp.os.linux.networking...

South Africa is no longer an Oranje-Vrijstaat. It has already been a
completely independent republic for quite some time.

On account of the language, old British expressions are slowly but
steadily being supplanted by slangs from the non-Western local languages
such as Xhosa and Zulu, mixed with Afrikaans proper. Ergo, even though
I'm not sure on the actual subject of a "ding dong" here, I think that
its Afrikaans meaning would be similar to the one given to it here in
the Flanders.

Actually, I believe that something which an unclear definition is simply
called "ding" in Afrikaans, which is the same word as in Dutch and which
means "thing". ;-)

[J G Miller]

Op zondag, 10 mars, 2013, om 23:26:27u +0100, schreef Aragorn:

> South Africa is no longer an Oranje-Vrijstaat. It has already been a
> completely independent republic for quite some time.

QUOTE

Oranje Vrijstaat (Afrikaans: Oranje-Vrystaat, Engels: Orange Free State)
was van 1910 tot *1994* een provincie van Zuid-Afrika.

UNQUOTE

When the new ANC regime came to power in 1994, they redrew the map
and abolished the four provinces including Oranje-Vrystaat, and
created ten new ones, including a smaller Vrystaat.

<http://nl.wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Vrijstaat_%28provincie%29>

Hence Chris Glurr's continual reference to "failed state".

Incidentally RSA has an unemployment rate similar to that of Wallonie.

[Aragorn]

On Monday 11 March 2013 16:13, J G Miller conveyed the following to
comp.os.linux.networking...

My apologies. I am quite familiar with South Africa as I have close
friends who live there, but I was under the impression that the term
Oranje-Vrijstaat was the Dutch name for South Africa before it became an
independent nation. I should have verified this first.

Also, I wasn't really aware that Chris Glurr was from South Africa. I
had assumed him British or North-American. Either way, he's in my
killfile, for multiple reasons, but most significantly his rudeness
towards people trying to humor him in.

> Incidentally RSA has an unemployment rate similar to that of Wallonie.

That's because the South African regime is imbued with corruption, just
like the Walloon Region - not that there isn't any corruption in the
Flanders Region or the Brussels Capitol Region either.

When South Africa abolished Apartheid and Nelson Mandela was elected
president of the republic, most South Africans had their hopes up very
high, but Mandela could only be president for two terms and he was too
old to run for elections again after the two terms of his successor
Thabo Mbeki. And Mbeki was quite a passive president without a clear
vision on how to handle the sudden shift in power when Apartheid ceased.

The ANC is the biggest political party in South Africa, but it isn't
really a political party by way of its vision, because it is just a
loose collective of freedom fighters from before the end of Apartheid,
and their common cause was the abolishment of Apartheid only, without
any consensus on where to take it from there. The only thing that
united the members of the ANC was their quest to get Apartheid abolished
and take away power from the white minority.

Many years of Apartheid and oppression from the white minority in South
Africa had created a very deep, brooding hatred, and suddenly this
oppression fell away, without a controlled transition into a fairly
organized society. Racism flourished both among the old proponents of
Apartheid and among the colored South Africans, and crime rates went up
drastically, as did corruption - which is itself also a crime, of
course. There is also a problem with refugees from Zimbabwe, who are
accused of stealing the jobs of the native South Africans, as well as a
problem with organized crime gangs moving in from other African nations
- mostly Nigerians, or so I've heard.

Mandela tried to make things right, but he didn't have enough time. HIs
successor Mbeki didn't do anything to make it right at all. And now
there's Jacob Zuma, someone who himself has already been accused of
crimes such as rape and corruption, and who doesn't have a political
vision either, except maybe something akin to the political convictions
and self-serving motivations of his despotic friend Robert Mugabe in
Zimbabwe.

The Rainbow Nation is up for grabs these days. It's a total chaos down
there. The cops are so afraid of the criminals that they either refuse
to come out when a crime is being reported, or that they take bribes.
Apartheid was wrong in every possible way and for ever possible reason,
but what has become of that beautiful country now is even worse.

It is sad. Very sad.

[J G Miller]

Op maandag, 11 mars, 2013, om 21:09:50u +0100, schreef Aragorn:

> but I was under the impression that the term Oranje-Vrijstaat
> was the Dutch name for South Africa before it became an
> independent nation.

Well South Africa consisted of independent tribal states before
it was colonized by Europeans.

Following the persecution of the Boers in Cape Province by the English,
Die Groot Trek resulted in the establishment of the republics of
Winburg 1836, Potchefstroom 1837, Natalia in 1839, Oranje-Vrystaa
in 1854, and Transval (incorporating Winburg and Potchefstroom) in 1862.

But although the English recognized the independence of these republics,
they followed long term objectives in provoking war and thus give the
English a political excuse to use the military to subjugate them and
annex their territories.

Incidentally, the Voortrekkers were not only Dutch but also consised
of French Hugenots and Germans, and they also indulged to a certain
degree in ethnic cleansing in their newly independent territories.

The history of RSA is indeed complex.

> Also, I wasn't really aware that Chris Glurr was from South Africa.

His constant references to living in a failed state should at least
give a hint.

I should apologize for my typographical error as it is Glur
with only one "r". I do hope he will forgive me.

> but most significantly his rudeness
> towards people trying to humor him in.

I suspect that he does not intend to be rude and in fact
does not realize that he is being rude in his manner.

After all, it is accepted normal practice in some cultures
to treat people who are regarded as inferior in such a manner:
"because it is the only thing they understand" being the reason
given.

> That's because the South African regime is imbued with corruption, just
> like the Walloon Region - not that there isn't any corruption in the
> Flanders Region or the Brussels Capitol Region either.

Corruption infects and festers wherever politicians gather.

> The cops are so afraid of the criminals that they either refuse
> to come out when a crime is being reported, or that they take bribes.

Or they tie them to their vehicle and take them for a drag around the block,
or in the case of striking miners, just shoot them, killing at least 18.

When people have been maltreated for generations, it takes at least
two generations to be able to build a civilized peaceful society.

In Europe, it took most countries over a thousand years to do this,
and many of them continue to have only a semblance of liberal bourgeois
democracy today.

[Aragorn]

On Monday 11 March 2013 22:14, J G Miller conveyed the following to
comp.os.linux.networking...

> Op maandag, 11 mars, 2013, om 21:09:50u +0100, schreef Aragorn:
>
>> but I was under the impression that the term Oranje-Vrijstaat
>> was the Dutch name for South Africa before it became an
>> independent nation.
>
> Well South Africa consisted of independent tribal states before
> it was colonized by Europeans.

That I know, yes, but I am less familiar with how the colonization
occurred, up until the Boer War, when "die Boere" fought the British.

> Following the persecution of the Boers in Cape Province by the
> English, Die Groot Trek resulted in the establishment of the republics
> of Winburg 1836, Potchefstroom 1837, Natalia in 1839, Oranje-Vrystaa
> in 1854, and Transval (incorporating Winburg and Potchefstroom) in
> 1862.
>
> But although the English recognized the independence of these
> republics, they followed long term objectives in provoking war and
> thus give the English a political excuse to use the military to
> subjugate them and annex their territories.

I see. Thanks for the elaboration.

> Incidentally, the Voortrekkers were not only Dutch but also consised
> of French Hugenots and Germans, and they also indulged to a certain
> degree in ethnic cleansing in their newly independent territories.
>
> The history of RSA is indeed complex.

Indeed, it is.

>> Also, I wasn't really aware that Chris Glurr was from South Africa.
>
> His constant references to living in a failed state should at least
> give a hint.
>
> I should apologize for my typographical error as it is Glur
> with only one "r". I do hope he will forgive me.
>

>> [...] but most significantly his rudeness towards people trying to

>> humor him in.
>
> I suspect that he does not intend to be rude and in fact
> does not realize that he is being rude in his manner.
>
> After all, it is accepted normal practice in some cultures
> to treat people who are regarded as inferior in such a manner:
> "because it is the only thing they understand" being the reason
> given.

Strange as it may sound, I am beginning to believe that it is very much
an accepted part of South African culture, as I have come to experience
myself in dealing with South Africans. Not all South Africans I know
are like that, but many are.

It is also one of the things which I found highly shocking when watching
Peter Jackson's "District 9" movie, which - in case you haven't seen it
- is a science-fiction movie set in the vicinity of Johannesburg, and is
a clear allegory for the whole syndrome of Apartheid. The interpersonal
rudeness and disdain were very ubiquitous in that movie, and according
to one of the actors, that is how things really are in the vicinity of
Johannesburg.

>> That's because the South African regime is imbued with corruption,
>> just like the Walloon Region - not that there isn't any corruption in
>> the Flanders Region or the Brussels Capitol Region either.
>
> Corruption infects and festers wherever politicians gather.

Not just politicians. Corporations are just as corrupt, and have just
as much power and influence in society as the politicians themselves,
not to mention that most politicians are also on the payroll of
corporations, whether overtly or covertly.

>> The cops are so afraid of the criminals that they either refuse
>> to come out when a crime is being reported, or that they take bribes.
>
> Or they tie them to their vehicle and take them for a drag around the
> block, or in the case of striking miners, just shoot them, killing at
> least 18.

Indeed. Shockingly barbaric and beyond any civilized comprehension.

> When people have been maltreated for generations, it takes at least
> two generations to be able to build a civilized peaceful society.

I firmly agree with that. With regard to South Africa concretely, I see
this as the primary reason for all the dismay and suffering in that
country right now.

> In Europe, it took most countries over a thousand years to do this,
> and many of them continue to have only a semblance of liberal
> bourgeois democracy today.

According to what I've read not too long ago, only Germany [*] currently
seems to be doing very well in Europe. Even France has taken a beating,
and the UK is somewhat on the sidelines, as they are treated as
"privileged members" of the EU, given that they don't use the Euro as
currency and that they only pay half the taxes to the EU compared to
other EU member states.


[*] One could rhetorically posit the question whether this would be a
Hegelian writing on the political wall with regard to history
repeating itself.

[Michael Black]

Oh, one of those.

That's the way to aproach something you don't know, because then it sounds
like you do know, without actually having to name it.

Michael

[J G Miller]

Well not according to the thesaurus at Dictionary.com

<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Dooberry>

gismo, gizmo, gubbins, thingamabob, thingamajig, thingmabob,
thingmajig, thingumabob, thingumajig, thingummy, whatchamacallum,
whatsis, widget, doodad, doohickey, doojigger, gimmick

The second definition of ding dong at Dictionary.com may have been00
the intended use --

An empty-headed person; a fool.

[Alastair Black]

I quibble with their 'empty-headed' adjective. I think
the usage of 'ding-dong' in this case refers to one
whose head is so thick (dense, obdurate, hard-headed)
that it could serve as a clapper for the bell in the
local church steeple.

Alastair

[J G Miller]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:28:44 -0600, Alastair Black wrote:

> I quibble with their 'empty-headed' adjective. I think
> the usage of 'ding-dong' in this case refers to one
> whose head is so thick (dense, obdurate, hard-headed)
> that it could serve as a clapper for the bell in the
> local church steeple.

But if you think of the cartoon stereotype portrayal,
when such a person is shaken, you hear a rattle from
their head because of all the empty space around their
pea-sized brain. ;)

The type of person to whom you are referring, I suggest,
is not a ding-dong, but a block head ;)

Again from Dictionary.com

block·head noun
1. a stupid, doltish person; dunce.

Synonyms
1. fool, nitwit, dolt, dullard, ignoramus, booby.

They also suggest the origins of the term --

1540s (implied in blockheaded), from block (n.) + head;
probably originally an image of the head-shaped oaken
block used by hat-makers, though the insulting sense
is the older one.

[Alastair Black]

In the 1540s, "The Block" used to refer to that ominous
piece of outdoor furniture on Tower Green (the Tower
Of London's notorious head/body separation tool).

"I must decline....
I must decline....
I must decline....
To sit in solemn silence in a dull, dank dock
In a pestilential prison with a life-long lock
Awaiting the sensation of a short, sharp shock
From a cheap and chippy chopper on a big, black block."
["The Mikado" - Gilbert & Sullivan]

Alastair ;-)

[J G Miller]

On Friday, March 15th, 2013, at 17:05:59h -0600, Alastair Black explained:

> In the 1540s, "The Block" used to refer to that ominous
> piece of outdoor furniture on Tower Green (the Tower
> Of London's notorious head/body separation tool).

From the photographs taken by BrianMicky of his tourist visit to the
Tower of London :

<http://m3.i.pbase.COM/g3/78/700278/2/66819103.QqnRynIL.jpg>