SAVE LINUX!VOTE AGAINST THE PENGUIN!

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Madman

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Jul 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/15/96
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Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
> V.R.
I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )

Not that I mind it... but if we REALLY ever want the "outside" world to
take Linux as a "for real" OS... we need to use a better logo than a "bird".
80% of the others are MUCH better and if the version part was leftout I'd
bet many of them would take over as #1.

I personally voted for a REAL Picture... and NO it wasn't the one noted
above. I think we should ALL really think about what we could be doing to
Linux. I TRUELY hope that Linux catches on as a REAL OS that companies use
and will develop FOR! And, as far as I'm concerned, this picking od a "bird"
as the LOGO might hinder it! COME ON and let's think about what we really
want from this...

REMEBER:

When M$S$ called the OS that was coming out in late 94 as win95... then with
all the delays they said that the name had NOTHING to do with the release date??

YEA you remeber... Let's make this a PROFESSIONAL decission!!!
PICK a REAL LOGO, and lets make "THIS" a real statement to the NET that this
is a REAL OS and needs to be taken seriously!!

Ok removing myself from thje soapbox and I'll trry to refrain from drinking
for the next two or three minutes.. but please THINK about the message we are
sending to the PUBLIC. WE are a good and wish not to be taken as a JOKE.
(AKA a cartoon!)

John
--
John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.

Psychodad

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Camille-Aimé Possamaï

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Hi Linux People,

Go to http://ballot.box.com/linux/ where you'll find a lot of proposed
logos for Linux. Most of them could have been designed for, say,
Microsoft; this does not mean that they are ugly just that they are
somewhat dull and, perhaps, commercially-attractive since one cannot
see how one can really dislike them.

A few of them are different. The company mentionned above would certainly
not choose one these latter ones.

What about Linux addicts?

Well! go there and make your choice.
--
===============================================================================
( Camille-Aim'e Possama"i \ T'el'ephone )
( Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique \ (+33) 91 16 43 27 )
( Centre de Recherches en Neurosciences Cognitives \ )
( 31, chemin Joseph-Aiguier \ T'el'ecopie )
( F13402 Marseille cedex 20 - France \ (+33) 91 77 49 69 )
===============================================================================

Louis J. LaBash Jr.

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.

--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}


Kazinator

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:
>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
>IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
>either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
>a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.
>
>Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.

I'm trying as well. The awful logos on the aforementioned page, plus the
penguin, have persuaded me to at least try.

I'm using xfig, by the way, even though I'm more than capable of doing
weird constructive solid geometry with povray. Let's save the cheesy
raytracing for the day when there is an actual logo created by conventional
means.

I really suck at this, by the way, but what can we do?

You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
design pizazz would be great.

Penguin Books comes to mind. I'm trying to recall what their logo looks like,
but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.

Berthold H"ollmann

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Psychodad wrote:
>
> The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,
> will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!
>
> V.R.
The proposed Penguin Logo is beautiful, making it an official Linux logo
would be great. Please forget about the ugly Logos on
http://ballot.box.com/linux/ and vote for the Penguin. (Actually I could not
connect to ballot.box.com, but last time i visited a "vote Linux Logo" site
all logos were ugly for me.) I like the penguin.

Greetings Berthold
--
email: ho...@hamburg.GermanLloyd.de

These opinions might be mine, but never those of my employer.

Kazinator

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!

I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
complicated.

The problem is that it's not a logo!


It's a _MASCOT_!


There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.

I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
into effect.


Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.

Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
Studio...


Erdal Emsiz

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Madman wrote:

>
> Psychodad wrote:
> >
> > The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> > will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> > and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> > has a good chance to win!
> >
> > V.R.
> I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
> several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which
> I think should be left alone. ( Since Linux changes too often )
>

Also totaly agree with this. That Penguin Logo is a very stupid logo, specialy
for Linux.

<KNIP>

>
> John
> --
> John Wagner jgwa...@erols.com
> I don't know what I'm doing... so don't hold it against anyone.
> What I say is mine, unless you want to pay for it.


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brown andrew todd

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:

> Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
> >
> > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.

> This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
> control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for
covers of future Linux titles.

I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Andrew

//----------------------------------------------------------------
// andrew todd brown mailto:andre...@acm.org
// university of illinois http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/atbrown1
//----------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Thomas

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <slrn4unlhb...@lcjones.aclib.siue.edu>,
Louis J. LaBash Jr. <lo...@LCJones.aclib.siue.edu> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
>|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>|>
>|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
>|
>|
>|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>
>But he's still the *boss*. He has given so much to so many, the title is
>deserved.

Well, IMHO the penguin is much more effective at representing linux than
any of the cheesy ways of writing the word 'linux'---even the mklinux group
have a picture of it on top of one of their machines. I think it captures
the mood perfectly. Linux is different---if you want it to look like any
other run-of-the-mill system then vote for a tedious logo. There is still
a lot of fun to be had from linux.

As for the argument that companies won't port their software to linux or
take it seriously, yes, right! I can just see some company boss saying
'well, we could make some money out of the linux port, but we won't do it
because I don't like their logo.' :-)

Paul.
-
paul....@eng.ox.ac.uk

John Brock

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!

I agree..., that weird tubby penguin is pretty awful! I'm not really
thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
small and easy to change as time passes.
--
John Brock
jbr...@panix.com

Louis J. LaBash Jr.

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:12:39 -0700, Mark Hamstra <mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com> wrote:
|Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
|>
|> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
|
|
|This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
|control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

But he's still the *boss*. He has given so much to so many, the title is
deserved.

--
Louis-ljl-{LLa...@siue.edu | l...@minuet.siue.edu}


Dale K. Hawkins

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Well, I think that the Penguin is kinda laid back and taking it easy.
It makes me think of something I read somewhere:

"Dolphines aren't smart; all they know how to do is swim around eating
fish and playing!"

I say the Penguin would make an excellent _mascot_, but it is a bit
too complex for a logo.

Just my 00000010.

-Dale

P.S. I think that the heart of the issue is that Linux kicks butt, large
cooperate butts, in fact.

--
To Hack, is to Live! Will Hack for Beer!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Dale K. Hawkins | Questions or Comments Invited. +
+ dhaw...@Mines.EDU | Criticisms Ignored. +
+ (303)235-2791 | Flames redirected to /dev/null +
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+ GCS/E d- s-: a- C++(++++) UL++++A++I+++$S+++$X++ P++++ L+++ E---() +
+ W+++ N++ K++ w--- O! M--(but better then w---) V-- PS+ PE-- Y+ !PGP t +
+ !5 X++ R tv b+++ DI++ D+ G++ e>++>++++(*) h++ r++ y+ +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Grant Edwards

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:

: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
: > >
: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
: > > Penguin.

: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: Cute little fella.

Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
of a particular organization.

It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.

: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who


: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
high-resolution.

A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
the original), then toss it out.

--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! America!! I saw it
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | all!! Vomiting! Waving!
| is the question, and | JERRY FALWELLING into your
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | void tube of UHF oblivion!!
| SAFEWAY of the mind --

Mike Frisch

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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In article <31EB0194...@erols.com>, Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
>I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
>several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which

Agreed. The penguin is a little ridiculous... Even the name
"Linux" done in colour and a fancy font would be appropriate. The
penguin isn't...

Mike.

===========================================================================
Mike Frisch (416) 496-2200 Ext. 2272
Software Engineer
Hummingbird Communications Ltd. North York, Ontario, Canada

Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not my employer

Petri Honkamaa

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
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On 16 Jul 1996 16:53:45 GMT, brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for

>covers of future Linux titles.
>
>I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the
>person who started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too
>exciting. I'm frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

Agreed! The penguin is great.

It's just perfect logo/mascot for a nice, friendly and powerfull
OS like Linux. And it's definitely a lot nicer idea than this
window-that-is-shattering-to-pieces-thing MS has been spreading
all aroung the world for a quite some time now...

Uh...and this was of course IMHO... :-)

--
Petri Honkamaa <honk...@zzz.lnet.lut.fi>


Steve Dobson

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
>
> In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
> Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
> >The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
> >will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
> >and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> >has a good chance to win!
>
> I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little
> color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
> complicated.
>
> The problem is that it's not a logo!
>
> It's a _MASCOT_!
>
> There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.
>
> I say keep the Pengo as a mascot, and get a real logo done by someone who
> understands what a logo is, and who has the graphic design skills to put it
> into effect.
>
> Hell, even if it was desirable to use a penguin as a logo, a shiny,
> plastic-looking 3D cartoon is not the way to go! Perhaps a stylized
> silhouette of a penguin, or something tasteful in a few colors.
>
> Not something that looks like some homework from ANIM 101---Introduction to 3D
> Studio...

HERE HERE!!!!
--
############## Steve Dobson
####### # Computing Devices Company Ltd
####### ## # Castleham Road, St. Leonards On Sea, TN38 9NJ, UK.
# ## #
####### ## # Tel: +44-(0)1424-853481 x2433
####### # Fax: +44-(0)1424-851520
############## Email: Steve....@CAE.CompD.COM

Mark Hamstra

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>
> You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.


This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.


Mark

Tony Smolar

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Jul 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/16/96
to

On 16 Jul 1996 17:02:00 -0400, John Brock <jbr...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
>Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
>>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>>has a good chance to win!
>
>I agree..., that weird tubby penguin is pretty awful! I'm not really
>thrilled with *any* of the proposed logos, but IMO the penguin is by
>far the worst. This is a serious matter, and I really think more work
>needs to be done. In particular I don't understand this "Powered by"
>theme. What exactly does that mean anyway? Shouldn't the wording be
>"Linux Compatible" or "For Linux" or something like that? And if it is
>really necessary to include the version number I think it should be
>small and easy to change as time passes.

I think the "Powered By" theme is intended for use on say, a WWW server.

I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
"Windows Compatible" logos. It would kind of make Linux look more like a toy
IMO. I'm also not thrilled by the logos on ballot.box.com, they're
either too complex, too simple, or look like something that would be found on
a cheap CD distribution. A few of them would be good with some work.

Is it too late to enter? I might like to try my hand at it.

>--
>John Brock
>jbr...@panix.com


--

Tony Smolar

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
asm...@fast.net home email
to...@nscs.fast.net work email
http://www.users.fast.net/~smol homepage


Kazinator

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
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In article <4shp4l$6...@aphex.direct.ca>, Kazinator <k...@cafe.net> wrote:
>I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
>letters

Here is a cleaned up third draft...

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n 2402 8703 m 3825 5850 l 4275 6750 l 3602 8103 l 3750 8101 l 4050 7501 l
4577 7503 l 5177 8703 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
$F2psEnd
rs

Edvard Majakari

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

>>>>> "AB" == brown andrew todd <atbr...@students.uiuc.edu> writes:

AB> I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
AB> Cute little fella. Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal
AB> for covers of future Linux titles.

Yup; but wasn't this logo meant for the kernel? So, there could be
another Linux logo concurrently with the Penguin. On the other hand,
Linux isn't but just the kernel... but we could use some other logo to
symbolize the whole 'system', which varies quite a lot,
though. System, which is based on kernels 2.x

--

//Ed http://lodge.ton.tut.fi/~ed/
%
This .signature is false

Dave Cinege

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
>Just my 00000010.

Don't you mean 00001010

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege (aka Psychopath #3) --- Super Genius at Large
http://www.psychosis.com/ Prove me wrong.....VOTE Libertarian!

Harry Browne for President in '96 Libertarian Party 1-800-682-1776
http://www.rahul.net/browne/ http://www.lp.org/


Anselm Lingnau

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:

> and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
> has a good chance to win!

Since when has anything about Linux been up for a vote? You don't get
to vote about kernel features, either.

Anselm
--
Anselm Lingnau ......................... lin...@tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de
VMS is great. We run VMS on all of our workstations. The great thing about it
is that no one else in the department ever wants to use them. --- Ryan Reed

Michael Bruce

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Grant Edwards (gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com) wrote:

: brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: : Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:

: : I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: : Cute little fella.

: Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
: cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
: is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
: of a particular organization.
: It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
: either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
: black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
: penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The

: Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying


: window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
: "bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
: can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
: billboard without loosing the identity of the image.
: The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
: at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

There is a black and white version. It looks good. There is even a
postscript (vector) scaleable version.
Try: http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
There is more to the Linux logo than just the color penguin.


--
Michael Bruce | br...@infinet.com | http://www.infinet.com/~bruce
I used to feel unhappy that I didn't have a neat .sig with a big ASCII
graphic for the world to see. Then I read alt.fan.warlord.

Kazinator

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,

Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

Some of these logos have been heavily criticized, (the IBM logo and the AT&T
``death star'' come to mind), but I agree with your point: the logo has to
work in black and white, and it should be something you could cast into a
stamp.

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.
>

>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.
>
>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who


>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.
>

>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.

Right. First you make a logo, _then_ you whip out the ray-tracing. The extra
dimension doesn't have to be part of the logo, necessarily.

>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

I'm trying stuff out. How about the following. It does play on the 'Linux'
letters, like many of the other contributions. It's 2D, and made up of
simple vector graphics primitives supported by PostScript. This is just
a first draft, I already have a neat addition in mind:


%!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0
%%Title: linux2.fig


%%Creator: fig2dev Version 3.1 Patchlevel 2

%%CreationDate: Tue Jul 16 20:59:46 1996


%%For: kaz@bullwinkle (The Kazinator,,,,)
%Magnification: 1.00
%%Orientation: Landscape

%%BoundingBox: 0 0 218 524

end
save
-251.0 -143.0 translate

n 4727 6602 m 5327 7802 l 6227 7802 l 5627 6602 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
% Polyline
n 4877 6002 m 4652 6452 l 5552 6452 l 5327 6002 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
% Polyline
n 5477 6002 m 6377 7802 l 6977 7802 l 6377 6602 l 6677 6602 l 7277 7802 l
8177 7802 l 6677 6002 l 6377 6002 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col0 s gr
% Polyline
n 6827 6002 m 8327 7802 l 9527 7802 l 8627 6002 l 8027 6002 l 8627 7202 l
8327 7202 l 7727 6002 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
% Polyline
n 8702 6002 m 9602 6902 l 9602 7802 l 10202 7802 l 10202 7502 l 10502 7802 l
11102 7802 l 10202 6902 l 10202 6002 l 9602 6002 l 9602 6302 l
9302 6002 l 8702 6002 l gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
% Polyline
n 2402 7802 m 4202 4202 l 5102 4202 l 3602 7202 l 4277 7202 l 4577 6602 l
5177 7802 l cp gs col4 1.00 shd ef gr gs col-1 s gr
$F2psEnd
rs

Arthur D. Jerijian

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!

--Arthur

vl...@net-link.net (Psychodad) wrote:

>The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/

>and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
>has a good chance to win!


>V.R.

Michael Hasenstein

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Arthur D. Jerijian wrote:

> NO!!!! Keep the Penguin!
>
> --Arthur

NO!!! Get rid of the penguin!

(thats just my single voice against it; 'that's no logo' was my first
thought when I saw it)

--
*******************************************************************
email: Michael.H...@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (MIME welcome)
homepage: http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/
my private pc: benjy.csn.tu-chemnitz.de (Linux!!) or 134.109.96.69
*******************************************************************


Mark Hamstra

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
>
> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.

I did one of these that I was pretty happy with. It should be up at
http://www.redhat.com/redhat/dtc/penguin.html; except that, with Red
Hat's webserver reorganization, it's broken right now. I'll fix it
soon.

Mark

Berend_W_van_Bemmel

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) writes:

>brown andrew todd (atbr...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: Mark Hamstra (mark.h...@sullivan.bentley.com) wrote:
>: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
>: > >
>: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
>: > > Penguin.

>: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.

>: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>: Cute little fella.

>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can


>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy


>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

>: Now O'Reilly has a good choice of animal for covers of future Linux titles.

>: I took a look at the logos at the voting site mentioned by the person who
>: started this thread, and I didn't find any of them too exciting. I'm
>: frankly sick of slick raytraced fonts.

>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.

>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!

>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace


>the original), then toss it out.

>-- Hmm, I agree about the logo part of the above. But I do like the
pinguin as a mascote, you could have it doing different things round and
about the logo -whichever it may be- like drinking beer, reading the
manpages, sleeping, (screwing maybe?) etc.

So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).

Greetings,

Berend van Bemmel
--
+ Berend W. van Bemmel +----( this space is not for rent! )-----+
+ e-mail: bem...@xs4all.nl +--------------------------------------+
+ www: http://www.xs4all.nl/~bemmel + home phone:(+31)(20)6257390 +

Dale K. Hawkins

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Dave Cinege (dci...@superlink.net) wrote:

: In <4sh8n1$n...@magma.Mines.EDU>, dhaw...@slate.Mines.EDU (Dale K. Hawkins) writes:
: >Just my 00000010.

: Don't you mean 00001010

Well, I thought about it.
00000010 == 2 (value)
Where as
00001010
are two asserted bits.
Another route would be
10
but that starts to look like decimal ten when it should be two bits
with the value of two.

10b

But anyway it is a completely mute point, and people are going to
flame me for wasting band width in the midst of such a serious thread.

I'd rather be writing slogans as I am not much of an Artist.

What are some of the better slogans that are out there for Linux?

1. Linux, not just for breakfast anymore.
2. Linux, the choice of a GNU generation.
...

-Dale

Michael Zboray

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

I agree, The penguin is a looser.
There Should be a runnoff between the top two

Mike Z.

Wayne Dyer

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Jul 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/17/96
to

Kazinator wrote:
[...]

> You know, even a realistic-looking penguin carried out with some graphic
> design pizazz would be great.
>
> Penguin Books comes to mind. I'm trying to recall what their logo looks like,
> but I do believe that it incorporates some sort of penguin.

I believe it's a penguin, standing in profile, inside an ellipse.

I like the idea of having a mascot, but the statements so far about the
need for a logo to be simple, reproducible, and work well in B&W are quite
valid. Even something as baroque as the Norton motorcycle logo would be
splendid. (I've tried that one, and I don't think it works well -- but I
love the idea.) Logos weren't always so simple (take a look at the Bell
System logo from the early 20th century, for example), and they don't have
to be all primary colors and geometric shapes, but a simple mark can be a
powerful image. (The Batsignal comes to mind, or Superman's "S"...)

One thing I'd like to see hopeful logo designers avoid: the temptation to
use the horizontal stroke of the "L" as a device. It's obvious, but it's
overused.
--
Wayne Dyer :: dwd...@eskimo.com :: http://www.eskimo.com/~dwdyer/
"But then of course African swallows are non-migratory."

Arve Fahlvik

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.

I like the penguin, as a mascot.

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

>


>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>

I agree.

Here are the URL to my suggestion:
http://www.intercom.no/~steffen/linux.gif

The leaf is menth to be a fig leaf!

I am
a...@allianse.no
and
kon...@ln.statoil.no
and
arve.f...@st.notes.telemax.no

Michael Dillon

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

In article <slrn4uo7tg...@smol.fast.net>,
Tony Smolar <asm...@fast.net> wrote:

>I agree with you. Although I like the penguin, I don't think it makes a good
>logo. I really can't see it along side the "SCO ok", "Netware Yes",
>"Windows Compatible" logos.

Ooohhhh!! GREAT IDEA!!!

Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
Pengo with his thumb raised.

--
Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049
http://www.memra.com - E-mail: mic...@memra.com

Neil Thompson

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

I'm afraid you've already lost!

The penguin was chosen by Linus, and as such has been adopted by fiat.

Cheers.

Neil
In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

Wim Vandeputte

unread,
Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

Psychodad (vl...@net-link.net) wrote:
: The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,

: will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
: and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
: has a good chance to win!

ok knock it off with this negative crap.

I've had enough of people only being AGAINST something.

If you truely believe and want to contribute something to the Linux comunity,
devote some effort into something positive (make something, don't brake it or
slag off the creators)

Besides, I like the logo. Just like I had a laugh at the previous
priceing policy (release 1.2 kernel?) I think it captures the spirit
of Linux devellopment: you don't really know what you can expect of it, only
if you truely try it out for what it's made for (swimming) you'll see the
true grace. And if you can't convice them: confuse them.

Maybe the sense of humor (irony) in the image isn't understood by everybody

Grant Edwards

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

Berend_W_van_Bemmel (bem...@xs4all.nl) wrote:

: >: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
: >: Cute little fella.

: >Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can


: >cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
: >is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
: >of a particular organization.

[...]

: >-- Hmm, I agree about the logo part of the above. But I do like the


: pinguin as a mascote, you could have it doing different things round and
: about the logo -whichever it may be- like drinking beer, reading the
: manpages, sleeping, (screwing maybe?) etc.

: So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
: the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
: pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
: put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).

Exactly! We can keep the penguin as a mascot, but we need a real logo. Well
maybe we don't _need_ a logo, but it would be cool.

--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Life is a POPULARITY
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | CONTEST! I'm REFRESHINGLY
| is the question, and | CANDID!!

Michael Dillon

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Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m.

This is true.

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

This is not true. The curves on the penguin are just right for doing very
small sizes as well as black and white.

>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.

I'm sure that if you asked the artist to do a black and white version of
the logo that they could produce one for you. This is an excellent logo
as good as or better than the BSD daemon.

For an OS that was created by thousands of dedicated people working on
their own time to create something powerful that they could share with the
world, Pengo is the perfect symbol. He's cute, he's cuddly, he was created
on a Linux system and he ties into Linux history in connection with Linus'
trip to Australia. It is just the right kind of symbol to make people feel
that Linux is a friendly OS and the Linux community is a friendly place to
be. No cold calculated corporate products here.

Linux: not just for servers any more.

AnK

unread,
Jul 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/18/96
to

>: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the
>: > > Penguin.
>: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
>: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>: I've been quite surprised by this thread. I like the penguin!
>: Cute little fella.
>
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.
>
>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in
>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't.

Hmmm. I think you haven't seen the black and white renditions of the
penguin logo. It looks great in one or two colors.

[...]


>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>

>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.

IMHO, the most important aspect of any good logo is that it can be
rendered in ASCII art for people's signatures (q.q.v..)

--
a...@best.com http://www.ank.com/resume.html

// .--=,
.....::://::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.. (o O &
:::::::://:::://://://:/:://::||_// / V K
:::::://:::://:/:|//'/' // _,|' r , 'qk
:'''/____ // / // |_// // || .'~. .~`,
kls \_/-=\_/

Ryurick M. Hristev

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to

Kazinator (k...@cafe.net) wrote:
: In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,

: Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
: >The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
: >will be a HUGE mistake,pleasae come to http://ballot.box.com/linux/
: >and vote against the Penguin,vote for Linux1-matt-ericson.gif,it still
: >has a good chance to win!

: I agree. There is nothing wrong with having a little


: color or pizazz in a logo. But the thing has no style or anything, and is too
: complicated.

: The problem is that it's not a logo!


: It's a _MASCOT_!


: There is a huge difference between a _mascot_ and a _logo_.

I agree with this.

A logo may or may not be important (I think it is because people have a trend to
associate the quality of the product with the quality of the logo) but that
particular penguin doesn't look very well (too fat and looks a little
bit dumb/silly, I'm sorry if I ofended anybody but this is how it looks to me).

OTOH something like a Chilly-Willy (remember ?) may be nice, byt as mascot
not logo. I mean is nothing wrong with a "penguin" ideea but it depens how you
draw it.

A logo most be something simple wich looks well on various media;
being able both to look well in black and white (magazines) and to take full
advantage of color where available.

Cheers,

--
______________________________________________________________________
Ryurick M. Hristev ()..()/^\/^\
phy...@phys.canterbury.ac.nz \/ \#/\#/\) What opinions ? -<:-)
______________________________________________________________________

drsoran

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to

Berend_W_van_Bemmel (bem...@xs4all.nl) wrote:
: So IMHO we should get a simple textual logo, in a typeset that gives it
: the distinct and recognisable 'logo' feel that we want, and throw in the
: pinguin for fun and games (and I sure would like to have a furry one to
: put on top of my bax, or hang on the inside mirror of my car ;-).

I agree on that note.. actually.. it might be best to leave out
the word "Linux" altogether for now.. concentrate on making a solid,
recognizable, simple line-art figure of SOMETHING that people will be
able to recognize even without the words Linux... like someone said
before.. the Nike logo is one example... the Pepsi symbol is another.
Something that would look good as ascii-art is probably also a good
choice.. :) Ever see those type of logos.. like the Lucent logo for
instance.. it sort of looks like the artist just whipped it up.. doesn't
have any fancy ray-traced shadows or anything.. if I remember correctly
it looks just like a bunch of rough paint splotched curves (complete with
the rough edge where the paintbrush would have left the canvas leaving
uneven parts). Maybe a rough outline of a fat little penguin (maybe a
side view?) done like this would look good? Don't even connect all the
lines.. make it look like that guy on PBS that used to draw the "happy
little trees" would have drawn it.. in two seconds with 3-4 paintbrush
strokes.. :) SIMPLE!

--
----------------------------------------------------
drs...@ni.cba.csuohio.edu
M$-Win95 user: "Why is this running so slow today?"

a0...@lehigh.edu

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to

Michael Dillon (mic...@memra.com) wrote:
: Ooohhhh!! GREAT IDEA!!!

: Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
: Pengo with his thumb raised.

this is the best use for the penguin. it makes a STUPID logo; the penguin
looks fat and silly, not exactly something that you would want to
associate with linux. however, it would be great in the above use.

anyone else?

--

a0...@lehigh.edu - bethlehem, pennsylvania, usa | nindepechemodefoetusf242coil
proud linux user; dos is only good for games. | pweikmfdmtommy!auto!win95!CDA


Grant Edwards

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to

Michael Dillon (mic...@memra.com) wrote:

: >It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone


: >screens either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as
: >well in black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m.

: This is true.

: >The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
: >at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

: This is not true. The curves on the penguin are just right for doing very
: small sizes as well as black and white.

: >If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace


: >the original), then toss it out.

: I'm sure that if you asked the artist to do a black and white version of


: the logo that they could produce one for you. This is an excellent logo
: as good as or better than the BSD daemon.

Somebody has done nice B/W postscript and grey/dithered postscript versions
of the penguin at http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/

The penguin is getting much closer to being usable as a logo. I'm still not
all that crazy about the penguin -- it's still a bit complicated, but that's
a subjective matter of personal taste. My previous objections were
(hopefully) of a more objective nature.

--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Remember, in 2039,
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | MOUSSE & PASTA will be
| is the question, and | available ONLY by
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | prescription!!

drsoran

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to

Mike Frisch (fri...@mailhub.hcl.com) wrote:
: In article <31EB0194...@erols.com>, Madman <jgwa...@erols.com> wrote:
: >I couldn't agrre more!!!!! we should have a REAL LOGO for this REAL OS!!!
: >several of the LOGO's are VERY GOOD, except they include the version, which

: Agreed. The penguin is a little ridiculous... Even the name
: "Linux" done in colour and a fancy font would be appropriate. The
: penguin isn't...

Well.. ever see OS/2 Warp's logo? Looks like someone was
tripping on acid when they were creating that thing. The penguin is
ridiculous huh.. should he perhaps be holding a "virtual brewery" beer
mug and have a silly little T-shirt that says "Linux" on it? :) You guys
just really have to lighten up. Yes, the penguin is probably better off
being a "mascot".. but maybe some of you with those slick high powered
ray-tracing systems can make a Linux logo with the words "Linux" and just
a blue-gray or silver outline of a penguin.. Though, I have this feeling
that I think someone else has a penguin as a logo.. isn't there a book
publisher that uses it? Anyway.. Linux with an outlined Penguin in
silver/blue whatever.. like a steel color would look kind of cool. And
yes.. it should look good in black and white as well so people can put it
on letterheads or something. :) Damn.. wish I could draw. ;)

Benjamin Tracy

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to


Use Linux. But, beware of the penguin.....Doobee Doobee Doooo....

Ben


John Stevens

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Jul 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/19/96
to
>Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
>cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
>is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
>of a particular organization.

Thanks for the history lesson. I didn't know this.

>It has to work as well in black and white as in color (no half-tone screens
>either!). You can have colors if you want, but it has to work as well in

>black and white, and it has to work at all sizes from 16pt to 16m. The
>penguin doesn't. The IBM logo (the stripey IBM letters) is a good one. The
>Sun logo (the four S's) is a good one. The MS-Windows logo (the flying
>window) is a good one. The Pepsi ball, the Nike swoosh, The old Bell System
>"bell" logo are all good logos. They all work in black and white, and you
>can scale them down to put in the corner of a business card or up to fill a
>billboard without loosing the identity of the image.

100% agreement. I don't have any opinions on the penguin, but I agree
with your statments about logo design, and I would like to stress that
this kind of design work would be much better done by a graphics artist. . .

>The penguin will look lousy in black and white. The penguin will look lousy
>at 16pt on a 300dpi output device.

Yup.

>Anything ray-traced will almost definitly make a lousy logo for the reasons
>I've explained above: they are _way_ too complex and rely on shading and
>high-resolution.
>

>A logo has to be SIMPLE, SIMPLE, SIMPLE!
>

>If you can't draw it with a pencil (you're allowed to look at, but not trace
>the original), then toss it out.

Agreed. Any graphics artists out there who would like to draw a penguin
logo for us compter nerd types?

Hey, we may be really good with software and systems, but that doesn't
qualify us to do graphics design. . .

John S.

Ariel Mazzarelli

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Jul 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/20/96
to

The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature. No
marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why I
like it.

Ariel

Todd Bezenek

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Jul 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/21/96
to

In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
)The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
)will be a HUGE mistake

I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
a good logo looks like.

See the 1996 Summer Olympics "torch" logo at the top-left of the
Olympics home page at http://www.atlanta.olympic.org/ . THAT is a good
logo.

-Todd
--
Todd M. Bezenek | Department of Computer Sciences
E-mail: bez...@cs.wisc.edu | University of Wisconsin--Madison
Web: www.cs.wisc.edu/~bezenek

Marsala

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Jul 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/21/96
to

<bez...@lion.cs.wisc.edu> says:
>In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
>Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
>)The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
>)will be a HUGE mistake
>
>I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
>Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
>a good logo looks like.

Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the
'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?

Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop
Win95 or MacOS and buisness users are willing to trade NT for it is a
long way off. The basic reason: they're easier to use. And they're
easier to use because businesses have sunk lots of money into paying
programmers to make them easier to use.

If you love Linux so much that you want it installed on every home
computer, laptop, and network server in the world, then 86 the
sophmoric debates about which logo looks best, pick up a few books,
and make a contribution.

Considering all that Mr. Torvalds has put into, and is *still* putting
into this project, if he wants a penguin, then a penguin he shall have.

-Marsala
--
"My music isn't about anger, it's just that I'm a very intense person."
-Art Alexakis

ch...@scotgate.demon.co.uk

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Jul 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/21/96
to

I agree!

I think the Penguin is a great logo!

Anybody who thinks it's """childish""" obviously doesn't use windoze95!

Any operating system that can have a "bee" as a mouse pointer, doesn't get my
vote!

Vote "Penguin"! Use "xvsetbg penguin.gif"

Cheers
Chris

------------------------------------------------------------------
İ Chris H. Lindley İ
İ eMail; ch...@scotgate.demon.co.uk İ
İ Postal: Scotgate Cottage, Honley, West Yorkshire, HD7 2JQ, UK İ
------------------------------------------------------------------


Bob Hauck

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Jul 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/21/96
to

In article <4sn1m9$d...@sidhe.memra.com>,
mic...@memra.com (Michael Dillon) writes:

> Linux compatible software could sport a Thumbs Up for Linux version of
> Pengo with his thumb raised.

A few ads in the August Linux Journal have a thing like that
already:

C O O L
it works with
L I N U X

This is in a small box similar to the one people use for "Netware
Approved". Don't know who started it, but it's a good idea.

---
Bob Hauck bo...@wasatch.com
Wasatch Communications Group http://www.wasatch.com

Grant Edwards

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to

Ariel Mazzarelli (maz...@primenet.com) wrote:

: The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature.


: No marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why
: I like it.

That'll be news to Penguin Books (a publisher that has a stylized drawing
of a penguin as it's logo).

--
Grant Edwards | Microsoft isn't the | Yow! Our father who art in
Rosemount Inc. | answer. Microsoft | heaven.. I sincerely pray
| is the question, and | that SOMEBODY at this table
gra...@rosemount.com | the answer is no. | will PAY for my SHREDDED WHAT
| and ENGLISH MUFFIN..

Ariel Mazzarelli

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to

gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>Ariel Mazzarelli (maz...@primenet.com) wrote:

>: The penguin is excellent, and more to the point--it is a living creature.
>: No marketing geek would ever come up with something so simple, which is why
>: I like it.

>That'll be news to Penguin Books (a publisher that has a stylized drawing
>of a penguin as it's logo).

I think that a company that publishes Livy and Rumpole is definitely not
filled with marketing geeks.

Maybe they should be approached about publishing a history of Linux. :)

Ariel

OS2 User

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to

Marsala (ma...@loeffel.txdirect.net) wrote:

: Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the

: 'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
: morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
: work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
: for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
: Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?

You are very right about what Linux really needs to get support into
the maintream. However, a good logo wouldn't HURT. I have seen the
logo and to be frank I am not too impressed.

I believe in the poster who said logos should be simple and presentable
in B&W. I'm all for the penguin animal. Why not produce a simple
OUTLINE of the pengiun, with varying line widths, with a serif Linux
below it. If you can picture it in your head it actually looks good.

Chris Tyler

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to John Stevens

John Stevens wrote:
> In article <1996Jul16....@rosevax.rosemount.com>,
> Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
> >
> >Sure it's a cute penguin, but it's not a logo. A logo is something you can
> >cast into a slug of lead. Literally. "Logo" is short for "logotype" whish
> >is a piece of lead type that has been specially cast or cut with the emblem
> >of a particular organization.

'Logo' was originally short for 'logotype' ("a single piece of type bearing a
syllable, word, or words"), but the two words have apparently diverged in current
usage. "Logo" is often used to refer to a symbol associated with a product, company,
or organization, while "logotype" is often used to refer to a stylized writing of all
or part of a company name. Thus the Coke "dynamic swirl" and the Apple rainbow apple
are logos, and the stylized writings of "Coca-Cola" and "IBM" is a logotype-- at
least among the graphics people I've worked with lately. (?)

But I digress. We *do* need a simple, monochrome-compatible,
instantly-recognizable-at-any-size symbol-- and the penguin mascott doesn't cut it.

--
Chris Tyler <CTy...@Oxford.net>
Global Proximity Corporation (519) 421-3541 / fax (519) 421-2107
Internet and Computer Consulting

Schick

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to

Mark Hamstra wrote:

>
> Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
> >
> > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
>
> This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
> control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
>
> Mark

Maybe you should write your own kernel, support it, and sift through
scads of email everyday (just for starters), then you can have your own
mascot.
--

--- Schick
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Gates VS Linus Torvalds
Only on Pay Per View !!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Linus Torvalds

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Jul 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/22/96
to

In article <1996Jul19.1...@rosevax.rosemount.com>,

Grant Edwards <gra...@reddwarf.rosemount.com> wrote:
>
>Somebody has done nice B/W postscript and grey/dithered postscript versions
>of the penguin at http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/

That "somebody" is the author of the original penguin, and the B/W and
gray and dithered versions were _always_ there. Let me just quote from
the "logo.txt" file that comes with the kernel sources:

This is the full-colour version of the currently unofficial Linux
logo ("currently unofficial" just means that there has been no
paperwork and that I haven't really announced it yet). It was
created by Larry Ewing, and is freely usable as long as you
acknowledge Larry as the original artist.

[ editors note: I've announced it now, so I guess I should remove the
"unofficial" comment ]

Note that there are black-and-white versions of this available that
scale down to smaller sizes and are better for letterheads or
whatever you want to use it for: for the full range of logos take a
look at Larry's web-page:

http://www.isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/

It looks like all the penguin-haters in this discussion haven't even
_looked_ at the penguin? There are several versions of it, and I only
made the full-colour version available in the kernel sources because I
felt that that is the one best used for web-pages etc, and that if
somebody wants to do letter-heads he is also willing to take the 2
minutes to download the black-and-white postscript outline version..

Believe me, I _knew_ people would like a version that scales down. The
penguin _does_ scale down. But if you think that a logo has to be
black-and-white and simple, you're living in the past: printing
technology has come a _long_ way, and web-serving is starting to be a
rather important forum for commercial ventures.

Logo's no longer have to be simple (face it: logo's are traditionally
simple because they HAD to be simple for technical reasons, but that is
no longer necessarily true). Having a cute and colourful logo can be a
_advantage_, especially on the web..

In short, at least give the penguin a fair viewing. If you still don't
like it, that's ok: that's why I'm boss. I simply know better than you
do.

Linus "what, me arrogant?" Torvalds

Michael Zboray

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Jul 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/23/96
to

I still don't like the penguin.

But if Linus said he really wanted the peguin it would probably be accepted.
Contribution warrents a bigger say. (In real life it does not work this way)

Unfortunately, the typical non-linux user won't understand the subtle meanings
of picking a penguin (I've been a user for two years and I don't get it :^(

Going with the simple professional logos with the name Linux boldly displayed
makes more marketing sense, if that is important.

Mike Zboray


Marsala (ma...@loeffel.txdirect.net) wrote:


: <bez...@lion.cs.wisc.edu> says:
: >In article <4senue$j...@usenet10.interramp.com>,
: >Psychodad <vl...@net-link.net> wrote:
: >)The proposed Penguin Logo is horrible,making it an official Linux logo,
: >)will be a HUGE mistake
: >
: >I agree. The penguin does not have the energy that is needed to bring
: >Linux into the mainstream. I do not know what does, but I do know what
: >a good logo looks like.

: Wtf?? You think a better logo is the key to bringing linux into the

: 'mainstream'? What about creating some cheap distributions that even
: morons can install on any platform? What about getting the guys who
: work on Linux sponsored? What about coding some commercial grade apps
: for X? What about creating some games on the level with Mechwarrior2,
: Command & Conquer, and Warcraft?

: Look. Getting Linux to the point where home users are willing to drop

Bob Nelson

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Jul 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/23/96
to

Michael Zboray (mzb...@village.ios.com) wrote:
> I still don't like the penguin.

> But if Linus said he really wanted the peguin it would probably be accepted.
> Contribution warrents a bigger say. (In real life it does not work this way)

> Unfortunately, the typical non-linux user won't understand the subtle meanings
> of picking a penguin (I've been a user for two years and I don't get it :^(

> Going with the simple professional logos with the name Linux boldly displayed
> makes more marketing sense, if that is important.

Marketing isn't that important for an already fine hacker's operating
system. (Hacker used in the best sense of that word). The success of
linux is already well established and doesn't hinge on any acceptance
by those incapable of appreciating it for what it is.

--
=============================================================================
Bob Nelson: Dallas, Texas, U.S.A. - bne...@netcom.com
linux for fun, M$ for $$$...and the NFL for what really counts!
=============================================================================


Hal Duston

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Jul 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/23/96
to

Schick (sch...@broadwaynet.com) wrote:

: Mark Hamstra wrote:
: >
: > Louis J. LaBash Jr. wrote:
: > >
: > > You've missed a very important point: the boss (Linus) chose the Penguin.
: >
: > This is one of those (few) times when I wish Linus didn't have so much
: > control over Linux. In this instance the boss is wrong.
: >
: > Mark

: Maybe you should write your own kernel, support it, and sift through
: scads of email everyday (just for starters), then you can have your own
: mascot.
: --

Hmm, I have been using Linux since January, I didn't "install" the
Penguin, and it (linux) works just fine. I looked at it but chose
not to "install" it on my system. I may "install" something else
instead or live with out any mascot. I really don't need one.

: --- Schick


: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Bill Gates VS Linus Torvalds
: Only on Pay Per View !!
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hal Duston Boring is good.
ha...@tyrell.net

Jack Walker

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Jul 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM7/24/96